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Oct. 5, 2009 / with DAVID ALAN

6:31 DigiMom: DavidA, I can't remember, are you the MLCer or was it your wife?

6:32 David Alan: DigiMom: LOL! I WAS the MLCer.

6:37 Jett: DA, how did the shift come about for you after the 3 years?

6:39 David Alan: Jett: I will say that God knew when I was ready. It couldn't have happened prior - I had to finish going through the different phases.

6:40 Mauigirl: DA - And how did your wife cope and wait for you? How did she manage?

6:41 David Alan: Mauigirl: She struggled as you would expect. But she managed to focus on herself during this time and I think it made all the difference.

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5:56 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Hello everyone and welcome to Monday night chat. Jim is traveling, so he is unable to be here tonight.

5:59 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Welcome Mauigirl

6:01 DigiMom: Hi Swan and Surety, how are you?

6:01 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Hello Jett and DigiMom, welcome

6:01 DigiMom: Hello, jett, and Mauigirl, how are you too?

6:01 Jett: Thank you, this is my first time and I have some questions. Is it okay to ask them now?

6:02 Surety [Facilitator]: "pray that he will be filled with Godly sorrow that leads to salvation & repentance, not worldly sorrow that leads to spiritual death (2Corith 2:9-10)

6:02 Surety [Facilitator]: Welcome all...

6:02 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Jett - please ask

6:02 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: sbky - hello, how are you tonight?

6:03 Surety [Facilitator]: Jett : please do ask..we are here for you

6:04 DigiMom: surety, did you have any problems changing your chat name? I am thinking about doing it, if my h saw mine it would be obvious.

6:04 Jett: Thank you and warm greetings to all. My husband and I have been separated for 14 months. From all my reading, it does seem like he's in the throes of a MLC. When he tells me his feelings for me have changed and the 'spark' is gone, I would like to believe it is a temporary condition. How does one know and 'hang in there' for years, hoping he'll come out of it?

6:05 sbky: hello all

6:05 Surety [Facilitator]: 6:04 DigiMom: No.... email Lisa with you concerns and you new ideas...

6:06 Surety [Facilitator]: please forgive me in advance..... my computer has a mind of it’s own and already shows I am gone

6:06 Mauigirl: Hello all, I am also new here to this forum and this chat

6:07 DigiMom: Surety, thanks.

6:07 Jett: Hello Mauigirl

6:07 Mauigirl: Hey

6:07 DigiMom: Mauigirl, are you new tonight too? Welcome.

6:08 sbky: swan I am wore out trying to figure out what to do about flying to be with my for my aunt surgery

6:08 Lia: Digi 6:04 My H would figure mine out too

6:08 DigiMom: Lia, hi, maybe you should think about changing it too?

6:08 sbky: swan, .. do we go to visit before the surgery, be with her and her family, just in case she doesn’t pull through, do I take my daughter with me. do we fly? it is a mess

6:09 Jett: So the above was one of my questions. Another is: should I set up times to meet with him weekly, so that we can stay in touch?

6:10 Mauigirl: hi faithfull

6:10 faithfull: Maui hello and welcome sorry that you are here.

6:10 Surety [Facilitator]: Jett: it’s a hard journey, but the best way to find peace and help your h is to give it completely to God. Determine your path and work on you, encourage him a lot. Not mushy encouragement but encourage his strengths

6:10 Lia: Digi 6:08 If you think about my current one, & how it sounds, not the same spelling, I’m sure you could figure out another name related to it that I may use. I'll tell you @ retreat, or you can email me if you guess!

6:10 DigiMom: Jett, I will let Swan answer you, but I am sorry for what you are going thru. We are all going thru this journey together.

6:10 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Jett - Midlife Crisis can last for a short period of time up to a very long period of time, there is no real time table for it. a lot depends on what the underlying reasons for the crisis are and when they begin to accept it and deal with the things of their past. I have been standing for my marriage for a few years, I love him and can do nothing else.

6:11 Mauigirl: how do you keep your heart safe?

6:11 faithfull: All: h reinforced he does not love me and I should of known it was coming. He does not want anything to do with me and he would give me the money to file for d and he would give me everything. He broke out with OW and not talking to someone else.

6:11 DigiMom: Lia, Oh, I have seen emails with your name on it. So I know your name. No guessing here. Hahaha

6:11 sbky: jett I have been standing 3 years .. not much has changed

6:12 Jett: Thank you Surety and Swan. Wow, when you both say 'standing', you mean you are in the process of waiting it out still?

6:12 Surety [Facilitator]: Swan: beautifully said @ 610..

6:13 DigiMom: Jett, do you have children?

6:13 Jett: Yes, an 18 year old son and a 16 year old daughter.

6:13 Lia: Swan 6:10 just tonight, I realize clearly once again, that even though it may not be so hard to be with other people from the standpoint of "getting along, being compatible or even like minded" spiritually & otherwise, it would NEVER be right.

6:13 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Jett - is he open to scheduling time to be with each other weekly? If he is, then yes maintain the connection.

6:13 Surety [Facilitator]: 6:12 Jett: for me and many it is a personal decision that God has laid on our hearts "til death parts us" We made a promise to our h in sickness and in health.

6:14 Lia: Digi 6:11, no darling, I mean what I would change it to??????

6:14 DigiMom: Lia, oh sorry.

6:14 Jett: Yes, he is mostly open to it. There have been times when I still react to something painful about the situation and then he says maybe it's time to end it..

6:14 DigiMom: Lia, I am trying to come up with something obscure

6:15 faithfull: How long jett

6:15 DigiMom: Jett, have you read any of Jim and Sally Conway's books on MLC?

6:15 Surety [Facilitator]: 6:11 faithfull: they will remind us every now and then, in a way to protect us.... But we must continually let go and let God work in them. I am in the same place....it's not easy, but I know God has already won and will reveal his blessings in HIS time

6:15 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Jett - I married my husband for life, that was and still is God's plan for marriage, I will stand for my marriage until my husband comes home or one of us is no longer on this earth.

6:16 Jett: It's been 14 months thus far.

6:16 sbky: faithful my h told me he wanted a d 3 years ago. I brought it up about 2 months ago. told him to go and do it. but he has never mentioned it again

6:16 faithfull: Surety that is what I decided to do I need to detach and just let him go and start going with my life. I need to detach.

6:16 DigiMom: Jett, did you get blindsided by this? Or did you see it coming?

6:16 Jett: Yes I have read a couple of their books and have found them INCREDIBLY helpful! (Sorry if I’m missing some posts--I'm new to this.)

6:16 Mauigirl: I find detaching very difficult

6:16 Surety [Facilitator]: 6:16 Jett: Please do not concentrate on the "time" as God has his own time, separate from ours.... it just hurts us to think how much longer?

6:16 faithfull: sbky I told h I will not file due to it will not change anything.

6:16 Lia: Digi 6:14 Not so obscure, think scripturally of some stories you've read & then email me later!

6:17 Jett: I was blindsided.

6:17 DigiMom: Jett, you are doing great.

6:17 Surety [Facilitator]: 6:16 Mauigirl: what do you mean detaching, may I ask?

6:18 DigiMom: Jett, yeah, a lot of have been blindsided

6:18 Jett: This is so strange to feel support from strangers, but it feels comforting nevertheless. Most of the folks I now think I’m crazy for not giving up.

6:18 DigiMom: Lia, oh definitely

6:18 Lia: Jett 6:16 It's 18 for me, you can do it dear. Christ's power is perfected in our weakness. I understand, trust me, we all do unfortunately. But PTL we all help hold each other up God has given us huge support

6:18 Mauigirl: faithfull 6:16 mentioned it - for me it means kind of building a wall and deciding at the time whether it is safe to open a door - a lot depends upon his mood

6:18 sbky: all I shouldn’t be here. my d's home teacher is coming tomorrow and my house is a wreck

6:18 Jett: I like the advice to not concentrate on time. That's a good one for me.

6:18 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: sbky - sorry you are going through these questions. I guess the thing to ask is will going cause any hardships to you financially, emotionally and equally what affect will it have on you not to go.

6:19 sbky: jett.. I know that feeling. but no one else understands...

6:19 DigiMom: Lia, I was actually going to pick a women’s name from the bible.

6:19 Lia: Mauigirl: Detaching lovingly is extremely difficult & almost just as painful. I never know which is worse, seeing H or not seeing him.

6:19 Surety [Facilitator]: Good evening MAS

6:20 Mauigirl: HA! I don’t have choice in seeing him, he hasn't left

6:20 Jett: Those of you who have been 'standing' for a few years now, are you able to manage mostly without pain these days?

6:20 faithfull: Lia is so hard when he pick up the kids and drops them off. I wish he just did not come around.

6:20 sbky: swan. the money could be a problem, but if my aunt doesn’t make it through the surgery and I don’t go. that will be hard too. if I don’t go see her..

6:20 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - if I may ask, what other people are you concerned with getting along with?

6:20 DigiMom: all, can you detach if he is still at home?

6:20 Surety [Facilitator]: 6:19 Lia: & Mauigirl: both has their affects

6:20 Jett: Mauigirl, I wish I hadn't lost control of the situation and asked him to leave.

6:21 sbky: swan. plus the ear dr said nothing from my d's ear is causing her woozey and headaches..

6:21 Lia: sbky Honey, remember if someone comes to inspect for cobwebs, they don't need to be there. I'd come over just to see you!

6:21 Mauigirl: Oh Jett, I am so sorry.

6:21 Lia: MAIUGIRL 6:20 PTL that's great!

6:21 faithfull: Jett I felt the same way but we have to let them go and let them find their way. My h told me today he was trying to find himself.

6:22 sbky: lia he is coming to teach my daughter, her woosiness hasn’t gotten any better and she is off school for a month so we can try to figure it out

6:22 Jett: How wonderful, faithful, that he's able to express himself that way. :)

6:22 DigiMom: Jett, I did that too. It took him 10 months to decide to leave. It was so tense in the house though. But I am not sure it was the right thing to do.

6:23 Mauigirl: digimom - so we come back to how to detach...

6:23 Lia: Faithful 6:20 I understand, that's hard for me too, but I try NOT to ask for that, because it might not be easier in other ways. I think it's hard, because we know where they go & you just want it to be "normal" & chance start over & love “em

6:23 Jett: Sometimes I’m grateful he's out of the house, so he doesn't see me when I’m struggling.

6:23 Mauigirl: in order to survive the tension

6:23 Lia: Swan 6:20 I’m confused ?

6:23 sbky: all she said her headaches are getting worse.. we are going back to her regular dr. so he can refer her to a neurologist

6:23 DigiMom: Mauigirl, I guess if he is at home, I would just try to give him space and not make any demands on it.

6:23 faithfull: Jet at 6:23 I am also thankful in a way he is out of the house cause his temper was getting out of control.

6:24 Lia: Surety 6:20 That's exactly what I figure both things are painful our flesh is still torn

6:24 Jett: One thing that has helped me to detach is to remember that this is his problem, not ours and that I cannot solve his problem for him.

6:24 Mauigirl: digimom - good idea

6:24 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - your comment at 6:13, I am not understanding your question

6:24 sbky: faithful. I couldn’t have leaved with the stranger my h has become, plus he was so anger with me all the time for nothing..

6:24 Mauigirl: I echo that sbky

6:24 sbky: jett is a big lesson to have learned.. as women we want to fix everything

6:25 faithfull: Jet at 6:24 I do really good with detaching and then I get really busy and start all over. I guess I am at the grieving stage again.

6:25 DigiMom: Jett, 8:24 Bingo, you are already ahead of the curve!

6:25 Lia: Faithful 6:21 PTL that is awesome, he is at least accepting there is something wrong & knows he's searching. Mine is no where near that. I think he's been running since before we met & maybe since he was very small

6:25 Surety [Facilitator]: 6:24 Lia: they are very torn.... I felt very lucky to have contact, and now with none..I do struggle....but I think I needed to totally let go..... I still have days, blue ones.....But I’m learning to listen and learn from my Jesus

6:25 faithfull: All: I work when we have chat and that is when I have the hardest time. Being in chat really gives me the strength to go on.

6:26 Jett: faithfull, I can relate. I do well for a while and then it seems I’m being tested again. I do ask for strength to get through those painful times without letting him know about them.

6:26 Jett: I’m sorry, faithful to hear you're grieving again.

6:27 sbky: jett and faithful I do good till someone tells me something they have heard or seen about h.

6:27 Jett: Thank you DigiMom, that's encouraging.

6:27 Lia: Swan 6:24 Oh, I meant the "just move on" thinking. It would never be right no matter how much time passes. Seeing H like I did tonight & seeing him joyous to watch our son & smiling & relaxed with friends & community members!

6:27 faithfull: Jett at 6:26 that is my problem I get overwhelm and get on the phone and beg him to get help. He becomes frustrated with me and then we start all over. I know better than that but I still do it.

6:28 Jett: sbky, that's SO hard, I know

6:28 sbky: well folks I probably won’t be back in chat till chatting from the retreat. I have class on Wednesday, I have to go tonight and straighten the house up. night all

6:28 Jett: goodnight and thank you

6:28 Surety [Facilitator]: Jett: have a great night

6:28 MAS: Hi Surety: Sorry, I was just catching up...Am having computer problems.

6:29 Lia: Faithful 6:25 I think we will keep grieving until our spouses are right with God & our flesh restored. God helps us rise above the grief & helps us grow, but He grieves when his children are lost too

6:29 DigiMom: Jett, do come back

6:29 Jett: faithfull, it absolutely drives me crazy when I lose control and show him any of those kinds of negative emotions

6:29 faithfull: All he said we do not need him and are better of without him. I told him we needed him and the house was empty without him. Their is not joy without him.

6:29 Surety [Facilitator]: MAS: good to see you are still here

6:29 Mauigirl: Jett - you are human

6:29 Jett: No guys, I was just saying goodbye to sbky!

6:30 Surety [Facilitator]: David Mr Sir hello

6:30 Lia: Surety 6:25 I love seeing him but I wonder how he can look so good & happy

6:30 MAS: Surety: Yes, I’m still here. The site always makes it seem like I've signed off. :(

6:30 David Alan: Hello everyone

6:31 faithfull: Hello MAS hope you are doing well.

6:31 Lia: Faithful 6:27 I know it's hard, but No begging, just affirm & listen It's soooo great he opens up to you!

6:31 Surety [Facilitator]: 6:30 Lia: Just PTL and love those times.

6:31 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - if you take a sheet of blue paper and a sheet of pink paper, glue them together, let the glue dry, then tear them apart, each color will leave parts of paper stuck on each other. That is how it is when a couple separates, there is a part of each other that will always be glued to the other. Even if one tries to move on, there is part of the other person they take with them.

6:31 DigiMom: DavidA, I can't remember, are you the MLCer or was it your wife?

6:32 Jett: I like that image, swan

6:32 David Alan: DigiMom: LOL! I WAS the MLCer.

6:32 MAS: faithfull: Thank you... But I’m kind of where you are right now.

6:32 DigiMom: swan, cool

6:32 faithfull: Swan that is such a good illustration.

6:32 DigiMom: DavidA. we have some newbies tonight

6:32 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Hey David Alan, how are you? Shame you and your lovely bride are not attending retreat with us next this weekend. So, how are things going for you?

6:32 helpme: Hello all, just got home from a meeting

6:32 Surety [Facilitator]: 6:30 MAS: my computer does the same to me..... it’s all in how you hold your head L

6:32 Lia: Jett 6:29 My favorite thing to remember is the promise God says about winning our H without a word by our gentle spirit & chaste conduct Let God help you cease striving & give you gentleness

6:32 Surety [Facilitator]: Lol

6:33 Jett: So, D.A., I’m new here, could you tell me how long the crisis lasted for you?

6:33 Lia: Swan 6:31 PTL

6:33 David Alan: Swan: Hi! :-) Sorry about not being able to come - but I have too many commitments and the loss of my Father really made it tough.

6:34 Surety [Facilitator]: Good evening helpme: how are you

6:34 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: helpme - hi lady

6:34 DigiMom: David, sorry for you loss.

6:34 helpme: Surety; Hello. Doing Ok

6:34 Jett: I agree with the idea of no begging. Did any one read the NY times article by Laura Munson?

6:34 helpme: Swanlake; Hello

6:34 faithfull: Lia at 6:23 my sister reminded me of that to win my h without a word. I am asking for Gods strength.

6:35 DigiMom: Jett, no what was it about?

6:35 David Alan: Hi Jet. It was 10 years ago now. Hard to believe. I fought a 3 year battle... with many back and forth that whole time.

6:35 MAS: Surety: You sound pretty good tonight. Are you doing better?

6:35 Mauigirl: David Allen - wow. 3 years.

6:35 Lia: Swan, Surety & David Alan: My H is still so in replay after 18mo & has such a "life" with ow & even got meaner after separation, but tonight, he actually asked me come to his car to get check & he laughed & talked like I was human for 5min or so It

6:35 Surety [Facilitator]: 6:34 faithfull: I have been asking God to use my h son and my words.... That Gods love would be evident in them through me.....

6:35 David Alan: DigiMom: Thanks. It was really tough to lose him.

6:35 Jett: She suggested not begging, crying, getting angry, ANY kind of negative emotion..to give him the time and space to solve his problem.

6:35 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: David Alan - One of these years!

6:35 DigiMom: David, it was 10 yrs ago, wow, did you leave the marital home?

6:36 David Alan: Swan: LOL!

6:36 Surety [Facilitator]: 6:35 Jett: and to compliment him and the man he is with out being mushy

6:36 David Alan: Lia: That's great!

6:36 Lia: Swan, Surety & David cont: was great, but sooo hard after he drove away. I get scared to hope it could be anything but civility

6:37 Jett: DA, how did the shift come about for you after the 3 years?

6:37 David Alan: DigiMom: Only in spirit. I stayed physically - and it was a bear.

6:37 faithfull: David I lost my dad about 2 years ago and know how hard it is. I am so sorry.

6:38 Lia: Jett is there ow if I may ask?

6:38 Surety [Facilitator]: 6:36 Lia: PTL he could be warm and civil

6:38 DigiMom: David, do you think it would have been better to leave?

6:39 David Alan: Jett: It was a rather amazing turn of events that would take too much typing to share here. I think the Facilitators have some of my emails explaining the experience. Perhaps they would share with you if you asked them.

6:39 Jett: Lia, of course you may ask! There was, but I don't think there is any longer.

6:39 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Hello sugarmama - welcome

6:39 Surety [Facilitator]: sugarmama: hi and welcome

6:39 David Alan: Jett: I will say that God knew when I was ready. It couldn't have happened prior - I had to finish going through the different phases.

6:40 Lia: David Alan 6:36 My H may have more issues than MLC He's successful & good @ all, fit, smart, very full life, never nagged, never clung to or controlled, he's been very cruel & hiding things even calculated, image is important this was shock to all,

6:40 Jett: I would love to see them..it's that perspective that I think would be really helpful.

6:40 Mauigirl: DA - And how did your wife cope and wait for you? How did she manage?

6:40 faithfull: David my h says he is empty and does not feel anything anymore. Could that be possible?

6:40 David Alan: DM: Would have been better on both of us emotionally, but probably would have led to a divorce. God spared us that.

6:40 sugarmama: hi and thanks... I have a question.....do any of you think it is a positive move on my husbands part that he left the guest house he had been loving in

6:40 Surety [Facilitator]: David: we went from contact and I felt very lucky to have that...... now there is hit and miss contact and it is very distant and cold. does the leaving an ow cause this extreme change.

6:40 Jett: That's helpful to hear DA, that it couldn't have happened prior and you needed to finish going through the diff. phases.

6:41 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Jett - just email Lisa using the contact email address on this site and she can get those to you.

6:41 sugarmama: living in since July and last week moved in with our son?

6:41 David Alan: Mauigirl: She struggled as you would expect. But she managed to focus on herself during this time and I think it made all the difference.

6:41 Lia: David cont: But my H had pretty messed up life since little, attachment issues, abandonment, now it seems he's been trying prove for long time & running forever He surrounds self with people who DON'T call him out & enable him getting way & walks

6:42 DigiMom: David, ugh, that is not a good sign for those of us who have had the h leave. My h told me last week he wants a D. He has been gone for a year. He told me that when he moved out it was to make sure that was what he wanted. I thought it was to make his way home

6:42 David Alan: Faithful: Absolutely. Emotionally, a ML man is upside down.

6:42 faithfull: DA what help you stay with your wife and not walk away?

6:42 Lia: David cont away easily as his family all did. So sound familiar or could that all make this mess take longer?

6:42 Mauigirl: sugarmama - is your son a good influence?

6:42 Lia: Jett 6:39 Praise God!

6:43 sugarmama: yes he is 24 and wants his dad to come home

6:43 Mauigirl: sugarmama: then in my opinion I think yes, because your H is no longer alone, but with a person he loves and who loves both of you

6:44 Lia: surety 6:40 He left ow?

6:44 David Alan: DM: I know... but remember, we are all different. So are the circumstances. While there are many similarities in the ML Process, each man’s heart has been affected by life events that make quite a difference in the healing process.

6:44 Lia: sugarmama PTL he isn't living with ow

6:44 David Alan: I’m sorry folks... having a hard time keeping up tonight. Forgive me if I miss your questions.

6:45 Mauigirl: DA - we have sort of bombarded you!

6:45 sugarmama: that’s what I am thinking and MAYBE getting a bit closer to wanting to come back

6:45 Surety [Facilitator]: 6:44 Lia: I have a strong feeling in my heart and head that that is the situation, but I have not real proof.....just a gut feeling due to his total despair

6:45 Jett: DA, we all want to know what was going through your head to help us understand our hs!

6:45 DigiMom: David, I think we are very blessed to have you tonight. Obviously you are greatly appreciated.

6:45 Mauigirl: sugarmama - certainly wanting to be a part of family again!

6:46 Lia: Digi & all Mine planned out bank accounts postal service before left wanted D from start & was with ow immediately & prob before & had lawyer immediately. He's probably hidden money

6:46 Jett: Ditto DigiMom and Mauigirl!

6:46 sugarmama: lia he did not have ow as far as I know. he was living with older people in their guest house in backyard

6:46 David Alan: Faithful: could you repeat your question at 6:42?

6:46 faithfull: Yes thanks David we appreciate any input to help us understand. At least it helps me to understanding and be more willing to be no so condemning.

6:47 DigiMom: David, you are our Jim tonight

6:47 Lia: Sugar 6:43 Praise God! The Lord will use this in a mighty way. Pray Godly men come into their lives & that your son can learn about spiritual warfare & power of prayer

6:47 faithfull: David what I am asking you did not leave the house. What help you stay in the house and not move out or did you move out?

6:48 sugarmama: Mauigirl thank you

6:48 Mauigirl: welcome sweetie!

6:48 Surety [Facilitator]: 6:35 MAS: I have had to take a different approach and totally trust God with h.... and for peace

6:48 David Alan: All: Lisa posted an email of mine on the Midlife.com site under the 'Little Help From Friends' section that might be helpful. It's called Lighting the Path Home.

6:49 Jett: I'll look for it, thanks

6:49 Mauigirl: and we pause as 8 women go to the website to look........

6:49 Jett: Ha!

6:49 Lia: DA I love that you seem to have read Wild @ Heart & took so much from it. Captivating is great too. My H turned the book down but I still have it when he wants it. My H seems after having tough yet absent dad due to circumstances & times & a mom who

6:50 sugarmama: lia our family along with all of these have all been attacked

6:50 DigiMom: Mauigirl, funny!

6:50 David Alan: Faithful: For me, moving out was too threatening. I was at a point where I couldn't quite choose. Too much remorse to go along with all the confusion and blame I was placing on my wife and my life for my 'misery'.

6:51 Surety [Facilitator]: 6:40 faithfull: David did you have a chance to answer "my h is empty & does not feel anything anymore. " what’s the meaning of that response from our h

6:51 Lia: DA cont who lived not so good life before she left my H alone as teen So he almost seems fear failure & abandonment. The OW has history living sorted life like his mom did

6:51 David Alan: Faithful: -cont- Leaving home just added more stress and pressure to me... something I had plenty of at the time. I settled for stolen moments away from my family to 'escape' my life for awhile.

6:51 faithfull: David did you still love your wife or was there no feeling for her?

6:51 DigiMom: David, I think you should become a facilitator.

6:52 Lia: Surety 6:45 PTL We pray in agreement this is fact & God is going to move mightily & swiftly. Hedges of protection around him & thorn bushes to keep evil forces away!

6:52 David Alan: Surety: A lot of ML men feel empty. Especially if all they have built their life on suddenly seems to lose it's importance. A MLC amplifies the bad and minimizes the good. It's a terrible place to be.

6:52 Mauigirl: mine said he felt he has nothing to offer me

6:53 Lia: Sugarmama 6:46 again PTL God is protecting you & healing you & your family!

6:53 sugarmama: david 651 yes did you still love your wife, did you ever tell her you weren’t IN LOVE WITH HER?

6:53 Mauigirl: bleh.

6:53 David Alan: Lia: I think often people forget that the OW usually has issues just like the ML man. In my case both me and the OW were smack dab in the middle of a MLC at the same time. We clung to each other.

6:53 Jett: When I am able to feel sorry for what he's going through, it helps me

6:53 DigiMom: Mauigirl, that is typical. You will also here a script....I don't love you anymore, I haven't been happy for a long time....etc...

6:54 Surety [Facilitator]: 6:52 Lia: Thank you so much.... It miserable to see or hear him in such a low state, but I PTL that He is working in his heart, head, spirit and life.

6:54 Mauigirl: double bleh

6:54 Lia: Sugar 6:50 That means satan is soon to be defeated & God's revival is coming!

6:54 David Alan: Faithful: Yes - deep down. But it is so hard to explain how that can be stuffed so deep you lose touch with it.

6:54 Mauigirl: digimom - do NOT want to hear that script

6:54 Surety [Facilitator]: 6:52 David Alan: is there anything the wife can do at that point?

6:55 DigiMom: Mauigirl, MAS and I talked today, and I have heard it said here before, but it is like an alien swooped down and exchanged places with the man you knew.

6:55 sugarmama: lia654 I am sending you a hug

6:55 Jett: In the aforementioned Laura Munsom article, she told her husband she 'didn't buy it', didn't believe it when he told her he didn't love her anymore.

6:55 Mauigirl: digimom - yes, that is it exactly.

6:55 Mauigirl: he turned into another person

6:55 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: All - Often those in MLC also have depression and that usually causes feelings of emptiness, lack of self-worth in addition to the other symptoms. MLCer's actually live in a very dark place and begin to search for anything that will relieve that feeling. they also tend to believe that their problems are a result of their current life, which is why so many of them detach from their spouses, families, friends, etc.

6:56 David Alan: sugarmama: I did tell her that once... when I told her I wanted to end things between us. I didn't really know what I wanted. Confusion reigns. The stress builds and you begin scrambling for a way to escape it all... no matter what the cost.

6:56 Surety [Facilitator]: MAS did you disappear or leave us for the night.....?

6:56 Lia: David @ 6:52 my H's early life stunk & our life was very good he rose above a lot of garbage & seemed so determined NOT to go where his parents did. Only thing is he's had lots hobbies & time alone etc. Nothing was ever enough It's scary @ X's

6:56 Jett: David, I can't tell you how helpful it is to read your posts!

6:57 sugarmama: david656 I got that and collapsed later that night he called and apologized saying he doesn’t know what he wants

6:57 David Alan: Swan: So very true. But you will rarely get a ML man to admit he is depressed. In fact he will go on a roller coaster ride of emotional highs and lows as he struggles to find his way through the tunnel... that ML tunnel.

6:57 MAS: Mauigirl: DigiMom is so right. My H says the same thing: "I have nothing left."

6:57 MAS: Mauigirl: Absolutely....Just like an alien!

6:57 faithfull: David at 6:56 that is the way h says. He is willing to give me the money to get divorce but he does not want to file. He keeps telling me he does not know what he wants. I need to back up and wait. thanks, I needed to be reminded of that, cont

6:58 faithfull: Or I will push him away.

6:58 Mauigirl: MAS I just want to weep for him after hearing David. He must be hurting so much.

6:58 David Alan: Sugarmama: It's really true. He DOESN'T know what he wants.

6:58 Lia: David 6:53 the ow is my age & has been around only married @ older age 3 yrs & in & out relationships, controlling & manipulative uses people to live off of it seems, plays game well, but I think yes MLC for her I pray her salvation for her & son!

6:58 Surety [Facilitator]: 6:57 David Alan: my h is very adamant that he is over it all..... there is no hope... he is numb

6:58 MAS: Surety: Nope! Still here!

6:59 faithfull: Maui yes my h tells me he is hurting and at times can not sleep.

6:59 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: David Alan - That is one thing I had a hard time understanding, how my husband could not see the changes in himself, how he could not notice he was depressed and had the nerve to tell me there was nothing wrong, I was imagining things. But now after studying I accept that he is living in a fog and just cannot see what everyone else does.

6:59 Jett: My husband tells me nothing!

6:59 sugarmama: faithful please don’t DO ANYTHING HASTY, I AM NOT, read Jim book “When a Mate Wants Out”, it has helped me

6:59 David Alan: All: Also on the midlife.com website is a poem called 'Male Grief'. Read it. It will open your eyes to what a lot of us guys struggle with in our hearts.

7:00 David Alan: Faithful: Absolutely.

7:00 Lia: Surety 6:54 it's like seeing or not seeing... what's better, seeing them look so good or seeing that they feel something that would cause them to think & change, ie some consequences

7:00 faithfull: Sugar I have read all the books and no I do not plan to file unless God tells me. I am standing and do not plan on going anywhere.

7:00 David Alan: Jett: Some ML men bury everything and go silent. It's not unusual. Then they brood.

7:00 sugarmama: I will read the; poem

7:01 Surety [Facilitator]: 7:00 Lia: I just miss the moments to ramble around together..... even in quiet existence

7:01 Jett: Did you wife ever suggest you were in a MLC? If so, could you see that at all?

7:01 Lia: David Mine has in past looked so hateful & has used word hate I guess that shows some emotion 7 it's better than indifference right?

7:01 sugarmama: faithful 700 me too I want my h to

7:01 MAS: David Alan: Did your wife do anything to help you come around in the end? Anything that helped to change your feelings towards her that you could recommend to us??

7:01 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: All - it is time to close tonight, please join us again Wednesday evening. David Alan, thank you so much for coming by and giving us such wonderful insight. Your timing is perfect, since Jim was unable to be here tonight.

7:01 Lia: Sugarmama Hugs are always welcome!!!!! Back @ you too

7:01 Jett: Thank you everyone!

7:02 David Alan: Surety: Keep praying for him. And keep focusing on your own walk at this time. You can't put a schedule on this thing. A man will often change over time... and seeing you change for yourself may help open his heart to your beauty.

7:02 faithfull: Yes thanks Alan you have help me so much. God sent you tonight. God bless.

7:02 David Alan: Jett: No - my wife never was willing to admit that my issues were related to a MLC. I had to walk that path on my own.

7:02 DigiMom: David, thank you.

7:03 sugarmama: david alan thank you soooo much

7:03 DigiMom: all, great chat tonight.

7:03 Jett: Blessings to all

7:03 faithfull: Digi yes PTL

7:03 MAS: Lia@7:01: That is what I was told, also. At the very least, your H seems to have more emotion than mine does. Mine seems very indifferent and that actually worries me more.

7:03 David Alan: You're welcome. :-) Glad I was able to join you tonight. Have a good retreat!

7:03 sugarmama: many prayers to ll good night

7:03 Surety [Facilitator]: Dear Lord, please be with each one here.... the blessings we encounter to have each other to relate to and to lift up. Watch over each as they travel to the retreat, cover them with mercies as the travel..... Bless you Lord for your work we see and not see, but know you are working in our lives. In your precious name Amen

7:04 Surety [Facilitator]: David: thank you for your enlightenment being here to encourage us and share your journey and your success.

7:04 Lia: Sugar 6:57 again PTL He shows some ambivalence & is open to sharing that with you. My H is also very proud & doesn't generally change his mind. He's also been running long time & "self medicating" with all his activities for years

7:05 Surety [Facilitator]: 7:02 David Alan: bless you and thank you.

6:31 DigiMom: DavidA, I can't remember, are you the MLCer or was it your wife?

6:32 David Alan: DigiMom: LOL! I WAS the MLCer.

6:37 Jett: DA, how did the shift come about for you after the 3 years?

6:39 David Alan: Jett: I will say that God knew when I was ready. It couldn't have happened prior - I had to finish going through the different phases.

6:40 Mauigirl: DA - And how did your wife cope and wait for you? How did she manage?

6:41 David Alan: Mauigirl: She struggled as you would expect. But she managed to focus on herself during this time and I think it made all the difference.

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