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May 4, 2009 / with JIM CONWAY

5:56 LisaK [Administrator]: Good Evening. Welcome to Monday Night Chat with Jim. I’m Lisa, the Office Manager for Midlife Dimensions. I’m blessed to serve the Lord through our Chat Room Ministry which has helped so many people through their spouse’s midlife journey. Jim Conway will be online with us shortly and as he reads your questions, he’ll dictate his answers for me to type and post for you to see. He will answer all questions that come in before the end of the hour.

"Sometimes it takes a painful situation to make us change our ways." Proverbs 20:30 Jesus, I pray that you teach us to die to ourselves in order for your glory to radiate out of our brokenness. That your Spirit would soon become our identity. And that our long suffering and weariness would become a strength that reveals what a moment in your most Holy Place can do. Thank you for this Chat Room, Lord, and please allow your glory to shine through this conversation and bless all who read it looking for your perfect guidance. In Jesus’ name, Amen.

6:02 Swanlake: Hello all, how are you tonight?

6:03 HoneyGurlTina: Hello Friends

6:03 Pelagius: Hi Lisa! Hi Swanlake, and HGT!

6:03 HoneyGurlTina: How are you all doing tonight?

6:04 HoneyGurlTina: Hi tlt and Rollercoasterider

6:04 Pelagius: Hi Rollercoaster and tlt.

6:04 LisaK [Administrator]: Wow! Stepped out for 2 seconds and everyone shows up!

6:05 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: All: Good evening. Jan and I continue to pray for all of you each day. I’m eager to chat with you today about whatever you want to talk about - so what are your questions.

6:05 helpme: HELLO EVERYONE.

6:05 Pelagius: Jim, my h allowed his OW to call me Friday night. She was evidently taunting him, wanting to know if he'd talked to me and if he knew how I was. My cell phone rang and it was his # on the caller id. She said he told her to call me if she said, you know, I’m doing great, I’m more concerned about my h than I am myself. And hung up. I guess I am in her head. I haven't contacted h since. I feel it would be giving in to her ploy. But I have asked him before not to make me hear her voice. so curious. I said, thanks, but I was fine. She said I hear you coughing, are you okay? I said I have allergies. She said to my h, she says she's fine. For a minute I just stood there in shock, and listened to background noise. And then I I sometimes don't know how to handle the antics of my h and his OW. He comes home once a month for three days, and then leaves again. But he had a really hard time leaving this last time.

6:13 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Pelagius: This is a very painful and confusing time. Keep remembering that this is only temporary.

6:05 HoneyGurlTina: Hello Cheyanne

6:06 cheyanne: hi Everybody

6:07 Pelagius: Hi Cheyanne!

6:07 HoneyGurlTina: Ok well I will jump right in here, Jim, my children and I are really having a hard time of it right now, because H's OW bought plane tickets for H, her, and her kids to go to Texas to my In-Laws 50th Wedding Anniversary and renewing of their vows.

6:11 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: HoneyGurlTina: It is very confusing when your mate acts so erratically. The easiest thing to do is to keep reminding yourself that people in midlife crisis do things which don't seem to make sense. Keep reminding yourself that this is a temporary time - don't think of it as if this is the way he will be forever.

6:07 Rollercoasterider: Pelagius: Sounds like she was fishing for your mental state and where your power is--to see if she could steal it.

6:07 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Rollercoasterider, WELCOME! I’m Jim Conway, President of Midlife Dimensions. This room is here to encourage you and answer questions you have about your current situation. Important: Do NOT share personal information such as an email or home address, phone #, or any names. Here’s how to join in: 1) Type the name of the person you want to speak to followed by your entry. 2) You’re limited to 250 keystrokes per entry. If your entry is long, then click “chat” to post it and start your next entry with the word “continued”. 3) Type “To All” if you have a general entry not directed to one person. 4) If you’d like to contact someone in the room, email or call us at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. or 714-768-1777. We’ll have them contact you to exchange information.

6:08 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: TLT, hi there. I think it's been awhile since we've had you in the Chat Room/ Welcome

6:08 helpme: Cheyanne; Hello, how are you?

6:08 Pelagius: Rollercoasterider, that's brilliant. I’m too close to the situation to see sometimes what is going on.

6:08 HoneyGurlTina: Jim cont... His wife and children should be there not this fantasy family he has going on here. We feel so replaced.

6:08 Pelagius: Rollercoasterider, are you new? If so, welcome!

6:08 cheyanne: Jim are you still in Hawaii?

6:18 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: cheyanne: Yes, we are still here in Hawaii working on Jan's book. Thursday, we sent off the first draft of the manuscript, and today we were working with the artist on the book cover. The name of the book is "The Finisher".

6:08 Pelagius: Honeygurl, I’m so sorry about the pain you must be feeling over this.

6:09 HoneyGurlTina: Hello Jo

6:09 HoneyGurlTina: Thank you so very much Pelagius

6:10 Pelagius: The odd thing about this is, he has decided not to pursue divorce, and asked me why I don't share with OW that we've been intimate. I said that this decision is his, not mine. He said, yes, that's right, our relationship is no one's business. I suspect he told OW that his are with me is none of her business, and she was SO abusive in her tone of voice towards him. She is SO cutting and punitive with her words and her general demeanor.

6:10 Rollercoasterider: Hi Jim--it's been awhile. I don't think I have any questions today.

6:10 Jo2: HGTina - Hello, I’m glad you could come tonight when Jim can answers some questions.

6:10 tlt: Dr. Jim Conway, Hi! My H has given up OW, he says he loves me and wants our marriage. I can't get the image of the 2 of them being sexually intimate out of my head. How do you get past that?

6:19 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: tlt: The process of getting over those memories is something which happens as the trust level between the 2 of you grows - and as your ability to forgive each other grows. Keep surrendering this whole issue to God and ask for His healing.

6:10 HoneyGurlTina: Jim, I feel like my H is taking his relationship with OW to a higher level. How in the world can he go there and watch his parents renew their wedding vows on their 50th wedding anniversary, listening to those vows, with his mistress and her kids there, knowing his is breaking his vows?
6:21 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: HoneyGurlTina: Try not to imagine all kinds of bad situations. It's better to keep releasing to God and asking Him to work in all of these situations.

6:11 cheyanne: tlt- wow how long was your H gone, were you actually separated?

6:11 Pelagius: tlt @ 6:10, bless you. I am so glad your h is home, but it is so hard, isn't it, when things just don't or can't go back to "normal."

6:12 Rollercoasterider: Pelagius: No I’m not new, but haven't been to chat for a long time. My questions were...how should I say...not normal? So I usually spend time doing my own research.

6:12 HoneyGurlTina: Pelagius, your H's OW really has some nerve.

6:12 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:11, wow, erratic is right! HGT, yup.

6:12 tlt: Neither of us had ever been intimate with anyone else, now that is forever ruined and I’m really having a hard time with it.

6:13 cheyanne: RC- did your marriage get restored?

6:13 Pelagius: Rollercoasterider @ 6;12, is there any such thing as a "normal" question? I sometimes think mine are weird. I get the larger picture about working on myself and trusting for reconciliation with standing still, but I get confused on the best things to do in daily situation that arise.

6:13 HoneyGurlTina: Hugs to you tlt, you can get past it with God's help.

6:13 helpme: Someone needs to use the computer so must say good bye. God bless each and every one

6:14 cheyanne: helpme have a good evening

6:14 Pelagius: Jim @ 6;13, thanks. I just didn't feel I needed to respond in any way. I thought it was kind of tragic, really. My h said when he was home last that he really didn't know what was going on with him, and we talked for hours. ……Like HGT @ 6;15, my does dumb things too, like talk to me about why he comes home and what OW does that makes him crazy. What are they thinking? Never mind, I know he's not. I’m his best friend, and he still knows it.

6:22 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Pelagius: It is terrific that you are becoming his best friend. Keep reminding yourself as some painful things are revealed, that you can release all of this to God - the Bible says "Cast all your cares on me, because I care for you."

6:14 Pelagius: Oh, helpme, I’m sorry you had to go!

6:14 tlt: cheyanne: We were never separated. He told me that he wanted to move out last Sept. I found out about OW in Dec. He told her wanted no contact with her once I found out.

6:14 Pelagius: tlt, wow, I can totally understand how painful THAT would be.

6:15 Pelagius: tlt, if there is an upside, I think I regret separating, and I’m glad your h never left.

6:15 Pelagius: Hey Yoli. How are you?

6:16 Yoli: Pelagius: I’m okay, how are you? I’m just reading along.

6:16 Lia: Jim: H seems to still have motor mouth even 1 year after left. His main mission is to disparage me, the other day in front kids I know not to be defensive because the truth will speak for me, but when it hurts kids! Are these guys that mean this long?

6:23 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lia: Most men in midlife crisis don't want to hurt their kids, but they are so confused that they don't realize they are causing pain.

6:16 HoneyGurlTina: Hello whatnext

6:16 tlt: Pelagius: It has been very painful. I love him very much and I know that he loves me, but I still find myself crying a lot over what he has done.

6:16 HoneyGurlTina: Hi Lia Sweetie

6:17 Pelagius: Hi whatnext? Great name for a spouse dealing with MLC.

6:17 Pelagius: Lia, wow, a year? Ouch! You must really be strong.

6:17 whatnext: hello

6:17 Rollercoasterider: Cheyanne: Sweetheart's. Though at the moment I’m not. But that's because I’m helping my Mom take care of Gram--she's 90. (Gram not my Mom :) ) I go home for a few days every-other week for a few days and will go home for good at the end of July.

6:17 whatnext: Pelagius

6:17 whatnext: well it has been a while and I don't know what is next

6:18 Lia: HGT 6:16 Hey girl!

6:18 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:18, congratulations to Jan! That has to be so exciting! What kind of book?

6:25 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Pelagius: Jan's book is targeting people 45 years and older, challenging them not to waste the last 1/2 of their lives. Jan's first husband, Doug, who died at age 58, is the major example in the book. Doug said, "the first 1/2 of my life I made money, the 2nd 1/2 of my life I made a difference."

6:18 CindyJ: Hi Everyone.....and Rollercoasterider, it's been a long time. How are you?

6:18 Rollercoasterider: Pelagius: Yes and no. In MLC abnormal becomes the new normal and a lot of people ask the same 'weird' questions. Mine were more research oriented I guess.

6:18 Pelagius: Hi CindyJ.

6:19 HoneyGurlTina: Jim, wow congrats to Jan, that is awesome. I bet it is a wonderful book.

6:19 Lia: Pelagius: I don't feel that way most days, but thank you. Now my kids' court appt counselor not one I take them to, & law guardian buy the whole get over it thing like world does. That counselor thinks I’m nuts holding hope!

6:19 CindyJ: Hi Pelagius

6:19 Pelagius: Rollercoasterider @ 6:18, my IC says I could write a dissertation on MLC. That's funny because I’m supposed to be writing one on something else! I just passed general exams last fall, four months after h dropped the bomb!

6:19 cheyanne: Jim oh cool....r you working on more than one book right now are is that the one you mentioned within the last few weeks also?

6:26 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: cheyanne: Yes, we have 3 books that we're working on at the same time.

6:20 cheyanne: RC oh wow , what a process I think I remember you from being here and also from DB

6:20 Yoli: Jim: One of the women in my prayer group passed away on Saturday. We've spent 8 Saturdays in 5 hour prayer session and yet there doesn't seem to be any kind of breakthroughs. I was in shock when I heard about this woman. What could we be doing wrong?

6:28 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Yoli: I have learned that the first thing I must do when I’m asking God for healings, is to make sure I am praying in line with the will of God. The Bible says that God numbers our days, so somehow our prayer has to fit in with God's plan for each person's life. Also, we need to make sure that we are using our days for the best possible use.

6:21 Rollercoasterider: Cheyanne: I remember you--though not the situation specifics.

6:21 Pelagius: Jim, thanks for your advice. Some people were urging me to go no contact with h or just basically chewed me out for taking that. I thought more damage would be done by responding. I’m learning to be SO patient with his antics. I really think that my h has lost his mind. When he was here in mid-April he started back on his anti-depressants, but I knew it wouldn't last But he seems to be trying. I think he feels a lot of this is outside of his control, and it is scary.

6:29 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Pelagius: I’m glad that you are hanging in there, and I’m also glad that your husband is trying to get back on anti-depressants.

6:21 HoneyGurlTina: Lia, yeah my counselor and my kids counselor both thing I am nuts holding out hope.

6:21 Lia: Jim: I think know your answer, but I’m sure you think mature, Christ-like love is a choice as are happiness & forgiveness, so do you think we can work on being soul mates or does it really just happen. I think MLC run to leave responsibility & OW is little to NO responsibility & convenient so everything seems effortless as my H says, even when all they did was throw self into career & hobbies & after leave us it's all fun & games, less work, more time off, more courting & the like, Yes?

6:31 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lia: During midlife crisis, it's not a good time to work on being soul mates. The focus of your energy should be on discovering what it is that makes your husband want to run, and to discover anything that you might do which would make the situation of reconnecting more possible.

6:22 Rollercoasterider: Honeygurl: My wonder goes to your MLCer's parents. What do they feel about him bringing his OW to this event?

6:22 Rollercoasterider: Pelagius: What is your dissertation subject?

6:23 Yoli: Jim: My heart also breaks when someone refers to my husband as my "ex." What do I say to them when they say this. I had the hairdresser my daughters & h go to tell me that she has told me "ex" that our daughters are beautiful. I just looked at her.

6:32 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Yoli: I don't think people are intentionally trying to cause pain. They just don't know how to say things. I think your hairdresser was focusing primarily on the beauty of your daughters - not on the word ex.

6:23 cheyanne: RC- I am divorced now....XH still deep in MLC......dealing with a serious situation with our oldest son which didn’t help his MLC, but I truly believe he was already in MLC prior to our sons problems as I notice the change in H after his Father’s death

6:23 Pelagius: Lia, every day I meet someone who is dealing with a spouse in MLC. It is SO widespread! Some are tough on their spouses and some are amazingly patient.

6:23 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:22, thanks!

6:23 HoneyGurlTina: Rollercoaster, his mother thinks the OW is the best thing since sliced bread, she is totally treating her like her DIL already. I am not sure how my FIL feels.

6:23 Rollercoasterider: CindyJ: Hi! Doing well--writing obsessively! I was in here on Thursday when you popped in briefly. I got the email and wanted to stop in. I miss interactions. I have people who email me, but haven't been to a forum or live chat in ages.

6:24 tlt: Jim: Thanks for the advice. I pray about it daily while I exercise (Power of a Praying Wife). He says that all of 2008 is like a black hole (course of the affair) and he doesn't want to think about it anymore. Is it wrong for me to want to discuss it

6:33 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: tlt: Your husband doesn't want to talk about it because it makes him feel guilty - let him set the pace as he gradually cleans out the closet of his memory.


6:25 Pelagius: HGT, I know that hurts. My MIL is generally supportive, but when she asked for OW's number because she really wanted to reach h, I felt dispensable...but only for a while. I don't let myself feel hurtful things for long. Jesus replaces all that with love.

6:25 Lia: Yoli: 6:20 In the back of the love dare are locks & keys to prayer, Philip Yancey wrote Prayer, we just finished in Sunday school-great, don't forget God's perfect will & timing too!

6:26 Pelagius: Rollercoasterider, I just saw your question - my dissertation is on men and women religious hermits who perform social roles in English society from the 12th century until the monasteries are dissolved.

6:27 grace2: tlt: Having "been there done that"... believe me . the less you know about the ow and affair... the better. It's hard enough getting over the stuff you already know. I mean truly... what's the point of knowing more? The focus is restoring and healing

6:27 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:25, that's wonderful! So many people have the option to do things with their later lives now that previous generations didn't have; I’m trying to get my nieces and nephews to think about what they want to do with both halves of their lives!

6:27 cheyanne: RC my xh father died in late 2003, my mom in 2002, sons drug problems came to light in 2004, bomb in 2005 son arrested 2006 , H filed for D 2007, D end of 08 and finalized last of financials 3/09 now sons case is moving forward...never ending fun

6:27 grace2: tlt: I meant healing. God reveals all you need to know. Trust Him and what He plans for you.

6:28 Pelagius: grace2 @ 6:27, that's helpful. My h, when he was the home the last two times, said, I know you must have a million questions. I’m hoping I don't. I don't want the details. I know that she treats him badly and I am his safe place to fall.

6:28 Rollercoasterider: Cheyanne: I just looked back and noticed a letter was missing--Sweetheart IS home--I think it looked like a weird contraction instead! Sorry!

To all: This is Lisa the Office Manager. I just want to remind you that if you have a private question you don’t wish to discuss here, please consider scheduling a 1-on-1 phone counseling session with Jim. Contact us at 714-768-1777 or This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. to set up a session. You can find information on phone counseling on our website: www.midlife.com. Remember, Jim always offers his live counseling in the chat room without cost. If you wish to donate to our ministry to support the Website/Chat Room upkeep, please do so at www.Midlife.com. Thank you.

6:28 cheyanne: Jim wow......working on three at once.....when will they be published roughly?

6:28 HoneyGurlTina: Jim, also my 17 yr old daughter just moved out, and into her boyfriend’s parent’s house, saying she couldn’t live with me. So my H told our 22 yr old daughter see, that’s why I had to leave, because your Mom is hard to live with. Then my 22 yr old daughter said, well Dad, she didn’t feel a need to move out until you left, then he got really mad and started cussing at her. She is devastated.

6:36 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: HoneyGurlTina: There are 2 issues here. One) assure your children that they don't have to be caught in the middle of your marriage situation. Two) Ask God to give you insight about what your husband meant when he said that he left because your mother was so hard to live with.

6:28 Lia: Jim 6:23 How can I communicate to H & not be enemy? I want/need protect kids & raise them in Godly manner, but want H to see gentle spirit It's soooo hard. The kid's court counselor after only seeing kids 2X thinks it's problem my 13 year old dtr is a lot like me & that she as he said is walking "book of virtues" Says this is problem & I need move on for kids' sake & create space. Last I knew having children be godly like parent & her indentifying with her mom wasn't a bad thing

6:39 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lia: As gently as I can say it, your postings at 6:28 & 6:30 contain lots of anger. Generally anger and resentment will only inflame the situation in your mind. I would encourage you not to take the responsibility for your husband's failures. Trying to change him is a subtle way in which you take responsibility for your husband. Let him do his own growing and changing - and sometimes stumbling. This whole process needs to be released to God.

6:29 grace2: Pelagius: For sure! It does us no good to know what the ow looks like, name etc. It just brings it more on our face when out of the blue the enemy can use that knowledge to hurt us.

6:30 Rollercoasterider: Pelagius: Hermits performing social roles? Interesting.

6:30 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:26, wow! 3 books! grace2 @ 6:29, I know what she looks like, not prettier than me, or smarter, or nicer, nothing. But in some weird ways, because I have heard her voice and heard her taunting my h, I have real compassion for him.

6:30 Yoli: Jim: We are all praising God and giving him thanks for how he has blessed us, along with asking him to speak to our spouses. Everything we do has been in line with God's will. The woman that runs the group has been waiting off and on for 18 years.

6:31 tlt: grace2: Thank you for the advice. I know that I will have to live with the answers that I get about H's affair FOREVER, but I have such a deep need to know the details. Like I’m punishing myself for it. I do pray and ask God to only show me what I

6:31 tlt: cont' need to know.

6:31 Pelagius: The last time h was home I was very compassionate. He said I shouldn't be so nice and just say, you made your bed, now lie in it. And I said, if you know that already, why would I rub it in?

6:32 Lia: Jim Same dtr told dad last Wed. she will not go to see him with ow & it ended up ugly here, no matter how calm & relaxed I was, although I did speak truth in love & called him on few things while he instead hurled unfounded accusations Now seems

6:32 HoneyGurlTina: Hello Steadfast

6:32 Pelagius: tlt, stop punishing yourself. It is not your fault. Even if we have flaws, betrayal is not the right response. I am sick of the media. In the Jon & Kate + 8 scandal, some dumb cable TV entertainment (cont)

6:32 Pelagius: (cont) program took a poll of women who said Kate was a shrew and they didn't like her hair.

6:32 Pelagius: Please....like that's a reason for infidelity.

6:33 sbky: Pelagius. that isn’t a reason, but I couldn’t live with her..

6:34 Lia: Jim cont: everyone except my friends, counselor & our family pastoral counselor think my youngest needs to cave in on her beliefs & stand Courts here do make arrangements for kids see parent on neutral ground but H tries refuse & puts problem on dtr

6:34 steadfast: Jim: I saw h after 8mos. S home from university and he pulled up to front of house to pick him up. I was pulling into driveway from work. H gave me stern half of a wave, looked straight ahead, pursed lips and pale. Not happy to see me, yet actually. the emotional trauma of the last year by email (just weeks ago with me) and thanked me for my encouragement to him in difficult circumstances. What do you make of this behaviour --before sharing now upset to see me .There is ow for last 2 years.

6:45 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: steadfast: We are all proud of you for being "steadfast".

6:34 grace2: Pelagius: 6:31 Great attitude. I always tried to not give my h any way to justify his behavior. He had to feel responsibility for his actions and constantly second guess himself. God is still after him and h is still running... In God's time.

6:34 Pelagius: sbky! I know. I don't watch the show but I've heard complaints. I worry about the model of families people see on TV.

6:34 Rollercoasterider: Pelagius: MLCer OWs are often an affair down. It doesn't meant they are a lower-status creature--no one is, but that their desperation leads them to controlling and manipulating behaviors. Their self-esteem is often lower than an MLCers and (cont'd)

6:35 tlt: Jim: Thanks. I will let him set the pace. I don't want to chase him away. I’m just afraid that if he doesn't figure it, out it could happen again.

6:35 sbky: Pelagius. I watch it some. it is a cute show. but she is very controlling.. no reason to cheat. but I would freak out in that house..

6:35 HoneyGurlTina: Jim, regarding 6:21 Lia I have changed in so many ways lost 90 pounds since he left 9 months ago, I am a lot more patient and kind, (thanks to God) I took up a new hobby, when do they start to notice? Because it doesn’t seem like he does at all.

6:46 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: HoneyGurlTina: You are an incredibly strong woman. Your commitment for growth and change is going to have a positive effect on your whole situation - yeaaa for you.

6:35 Pelagius: grace2 @ 6:34, thank you. That's why I don't call up his OW and tell her when he's been home that he is tender towards me. He would like me to, I think, but I confirmed once to her that he'd been home for the holidays with me and been sweet, (cont)

6:36 Pelagius: (cont) and she took him back anyway.

6:36 Pelagius: HGT - 90 pounds!

6:36 Yoli: Jim: Yes I know you are right. If anything it would be more of a blow to him because she said she asked him where he got such beautiful daughters from. I think it's hard for him to say that maybe I contributed some to their looks.

6:37 Rollercoasterider: Pelagius Cont'd: they do not know how to be in a healthy relationship. They fear abandonment.

6:37 grace2: Rollercoaster: I totally agree with the self esteem of ow. They are both living in a vacuum and really can't see thru bandaging their own wounds. Sooner or later reality hits.

6:37 Lia: Jim 6:31 H hasn't been able to talk to me since start OW controlling & master @ immediately investing men in her life. H tells friend they have so much in common because she works in outdoor store, yet I was dying to hunt & fish, hike ,camp again like b4

6:47 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lia: When you were wanting to hunt and fish with your husband, he was probably at a different stage in his life.

6:37 Pelagius: Rollercoasterider @ 6:30, it is part of the definition of "social." Does a king hiring a hermit to distribute alms count as social, or religious, or both? A lot of it has to do with the social roles of religion, such as monasteries as retirement homes, etc.

6:38 cheyanne: steadfast what is happening with your x, I am confused by your comment to Jim

6:38 Pelagius: grace2 @ 6:34, I finally told my h I would no longer fight with him, because he could not use that to justify his behavior (running back to OW). Sometimes I think he deliberately starts fights with her to justify coming home to me. he is SO confuse

6:39 Lia: HGT My H sarcastically tells kids it takes 2 to make or break marriage, yet also says it shouldn't take work. He says what he's doing is effortless but spends much more time, money & effort impressing ow that I never saw He says I made him miserable

6:39 Rollercoasterider: Grace2: Often it hits multiple times--because it is an addiction they may become aware but are still unable to stop.

6:40 Pelagius: Rollercoasterider, yes, I have been angry that he has chosen someone so, needy, manipulative, mean, and unappreciative, but I still try to feel compassion for her. He said she needed me and I didn't. Be careful what you wish for!

6:40 Pelagius: He has since admitted he knows I need him in a healthy way, as a partner, and he has moments when he comes out of the fog.

6:40 sbky: lia my h told my daughter along time ago that this was not for her to worry about but for him and mom to work out.. like we was working on it..

6:40 grace2: Rollercoaster: Totally... they need a 12 step program for affairs.

6:40 Lia: HGT cont: to kids now but not why, even though our entire life revolved around him & all his fun & toys! so much for taking 2 I guess I was problem. Remember, they are under control of enemy even ow that's why God's word warns of OW sooo much

6:41 grace2: Pelagius: Yeah for you, Pel. Sounds like you're seeing God at work in your h.

6:41 Pelagius: grace2 & Rollercoasterider, my h said that he thinks OW has issues with men and hates them; her father left when she was 8 and her sister 7, never to be seen again. Her brother is a half-brother, but none of the siblings get along with her. Her sister is a Christian who tries to reason with her and teach her better examples of how to live.

6:42 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Pelagius: I’m glad that God is giving you a growing compassion.

6:43 Pelagius: grace2, thanks. And thanks for your affirmation of being kind to him. I have worked through my anger (Lisa K gave me a tip on sins of bitterness). In some corners of MLC advice-land, being compassionate is being weak.

6:44 Rollercoasterider: Grace2: I was at the library the other day looking through the infidelity books for comparison and saw something from the 80's that I think referenced a 12 step program. I didn't get it because I need to look through more recent books.

6:44 tlt: Pelagius: I know H A is not my fault. I had a very sick daughter that took my attention away from H. Our oldest son died at 14months and I've had 5 miscarriages. One S, 15 yrs and one D, 8. She needed me more. But I should have paid more attention to

6:44 grace2: Pelagius: I believe, it is the power of prayer and submitting to God that heals. There is surely, no other true way to restoration and healing. That said, I am still struggling with all this and h has been home over 2 1/2 yrs! Lol.

6:44 Lia: sbky 6:40 I hear ya!

6:44 tlt: cont' to my H.

6:44 sbky: Pelagius. I know people see trying to wait this out as being weak, but people just don’t know how much strength you have to have to do that

6:44 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:42, thanks! I was confused about how to set boundaries and disengage, without sending my h a signal to go away. I don't pursue him and have explained that I am giving him his space. After the phone call the other night, he texted to say he was all right, and used a pet name for me he doesn't use when he's in the fog of love for OW. I texted back, ok, thanks, I'll leave the front porch light on for you!

6:48 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Pelagius: You handled that situation magnificently.

6:45 sbky: lia I made sure she knew .. at that time. we was not talking. I don’t want her hopes up..

6:45 grace2: Pelagius: The only way to lead people to Christ is to love them there. If it was our child doing this we would be very compassionate and know they were truly hurting.

6:46 Pelagius: tlt @ 6:44, oh, how painful. I am so sorry. I kind of though my school took me away from h, too, but he was withdrawing into his MLC long before I knew there was something wrong.

6:46 tlt: All: I need to go

6:46 Lia: Jim to HGT @ 6:39 my H early on did fair amount "gushing" & saying I thought about coming back but ... & asking how could I forgive, but further ow got claws in less he would even try even co-parent He acknowledged I wanted listen & understand but

6:46 whatnext: Pel Jim

6:46 Pelagius: He finally admitted there was really only one thing bothering him all those years, and it was me letting someone at work bully me and eat into my evening and weekend time. Clearly boundary-setting is something I needed to learn.

6:47 Pelagius: sbky @ 6:44,, ain't that the truth!

6:47 grace2: Jim: "Dragon lady" here. Guess what? My 20 yr anniversary is this Thurs... the 7th of May. God is good and revealing to me how I've let the enemy creep back in and I've allowed myself to feel bitter.

6:49 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: grace2: I’m glad that God is helping you with the bitterness problem.

6:48 Pelagius: grace2 @ 6:45, thanks for the reminder. I am committed to compassion, and I thank all of you for upholding my belief that my h is in pain and hurting very much. I won't abandon him.

6:48 whatnext: When I read things like how others were busy with their children I am more baffled as I have not had that problem..H has been well attended all this time..and even said no, I hadn't neglected him etc So even less reason and more difficult for me

6:48 HoneyGurlTina: Jim, thank you so very much. I knew that I had a lot of changes to make and through Gods help I have really been trying, I just don’t understand why my H can’t or won’t see it.

6:48 Rollercoasterider: Pelagius: I find it quite beneficial to Standing that OWs tend to be manipulative and controlling. LBSs are often so insulted at the type of person their MLCer cheats with, but I find it reassuring to the chances for reconciliation later.

6:48 sbky: Pelagius it is hard sometimes.. when everyone else says give up. move on..

6:48 Lia: Jim cont: anything he would say were huge verbal slander, one miserable trait after another, according to him everything was wrong! How can you even try to understand when there is no communication except projecting & justifying He wouldn't even sit with kids' counselor & I longer that 15min? I don't call or chase, am very kind the manipulation & control & his anger are exhausting Will I ever be able to just sit & talk to him. I think because his family all doing same things, he can't deal with any guilt I probably have to be completely wrong

6:55 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lia: I think it might be good if we can chat by phone some more about these issues.

6:50 Pelagius: Lia @ 6:37, my h went fishing a lot and just about the time he started the affair, I said, I'd like to go fishing. He looked shocked! He'd forgotten all the times he went fishing and why we had TWO fishing poles!

6:50 whatnext: Pelagius, Perhaps that is then more of a problem for me. Hs OW I believe is just young, but overall not a bad person..

6:50 HoneyGurlTina: Pelagius, you are such a wonderful example to the rest of us.

6:51 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:48, thank you thank you thank you!

6:51 Rollercoasterider: Pelagius: The challenge for many LBSs is to recognize that the OW is also a broken person. We want to make her behaviour into character flaws rather than a symptom of deep pain and damage.

6:51 Pelagius: HGT @ 6:51, you are too kind. I am finally learning, after 9 months, to listen to my heart and not listen to all the people who say go no contact, or kick him to the curb, or, why do you put up with that? It's been a long road, HGT, for me (cont)

6:52 Pelagius: (cont) to get comfortable with responding based on my heart, and not on all the "formulas."

6:53 steadfast: Jim: re 6:34: When h didn't looked pleased to see me as I pulled into drive, I just smiled sweetly and waited for him to move his vehicle so I could get into the drive to our house. I guess the switch in behaviour from sharing in an email to not happy seeing me is par for the course with MLC. , right. My s said what did I expect he knew picking our s up at house at that time might mean he would run into me and he doesn't want that. S defensive of his father& wants to protect h why?

6:57 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: steadfast: Remember not to put too much weight (meaning) into 1 experience. Don't let your emotions be influenced too much by 1 event.

6:53 Pelagius: whatnext @ 6:50, whatnext, yes, wow, I hear you. Misguided. See, I was sorry I talked to OW a few times, but I know the Lord wanted me to hear how she abused him. It made me realize how sad and sick he must be to take that.

6:53 HoneyGurlTina: Pelagius, I hear ya, I feel bad because I hardly ever call one of my Brothers because all I hear is that I need to divorce him and move on with my life.

6:54 Pelagius: Rollercoasterider @ 6:51, you are so right. The OW was quoting scripture at me one night, and I said, did you miss the part about adultery? And she said, don't judge me. My sister judges me. And I said, just because there has been betrayal (cont)

6:54 Lia: Pelagius: 6:50 My H forgot I loved the outdoors too, but seems raising 3 kids was more investment then he probably really wanted Plus the stable life I grew up with looked good to him but he was never shown how to have it everyone in his fam. leaves

6:54 Pelagius: (cont) doesn't mean I HAVE to or MUST divorce my husband. She had never heard of such a thing. I said, I am committed to my h, he is not himself, and that's what marriage is, the good with the bad. She's been married 3 times....

6:55 Pelagius: steadfast @ 6:53, good for you!

6:55 Pelagius: HGT @ 6:53, one of my favorites among h's brothers told me that, but he is angry. He got one of those drunk Friday night phone calls like I got; she asked him (via voice message) what he charges for acrylic nails. He is a DEA AGENT!

6:56 sbky: night all..

6:56 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: We still have about 5 minutes left, and before anyone logs out, I want to thank you all for coming. Please come again and invite your friends! Remember; the Sun./Wed./Fri. sessions are open to share and encourage each other, with the assistance of our trained facilitators.. The Mon. session is primarily a Q and A time with me in the room. Chat room hours are: Sunday, Wednesday, and Friday: 6-7 pm Pacific Time. Monday (live chat with me): 6-7 pm Pacific Time. NEW Saturdays at 1:00 pm PST.

6:56 Lia: Jim 6:39 about letting H stumble, even with kids? Dtr asked me to tell dad she didn't want see ow also told law guardian. Kid is very emotionally mature for 13, very intuitive & perceptive, yet still a little girl should I keep emphasizing kids need to speak to dad themselves even if they fear he'll be angry & they look to me for protection?

6:59 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lia: Be very careful not to subtly manipulate the kids to dislike their father. Most courts realize that teenage children should be heard regarding their feelings of how much they want to connect with either of their parents.

6:57 Rollercoasterider: Pelagius: HA! We all have opinions and people confuse them with judgment. Judgment involves acting on our opinions.

6:57 steadfast: Chey: We are still separated and he is leaving with ow. Affairs re his dad's will and difficulties with his family keeping him preoccupied

6:57 Pelagius: Lia, in many cases along the way I didn't know how to respond to h, but it was only me; I didn't have kids. I will pray for you, that you will have the opportunity to feel more comfortable about the decisions you have to make and the issues (cont)

6:57 Pelagius: (cont) you have to deal with re: your kids.

6:58 Pelagius: sbky, bye! Catch you later!

6:58 HoneyGurlTina: Steadfast, what do you mean he is leaving with OW?

6:58 Lia: Pelagius Thank you!

6:59 Lia: steadfast from HGT 6:58????

6:59 Pelagius: Yes, steadfast, what HGT said @ 6:58? ! Rollercoasterider @ 6:57, amen! She was stunned and said so; said she'd never encountered anyone who would stick out a marriage after betrayal. I guess I messed up her plan early on.

7:00 Pelagius: Jim, thank you for meeting us tonight. I really needed affirmation about what happened Friday night. I did say to OW that if h was worried about me, HE should call.

7:00 steadfast: HGT Sorry meant he is living with ow and also meant to say hi. Getting behind and not able to keep up with dialogue tonight. Also wanted to say that my MIL thinks ow is just great too & full accepts her so I know where you are at with that one

7:01 Lia: All: I’m landscaping my entire woodland edge now approx 2 acres I’m so thrilled Good muscle building too!!!!! I think I know what I'll do when I’m done with nursing Time to nurture plants & be a landscaper!!!!!

7:01 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: When we close the Chat Room, I hope you’ll all take time lift each other up in prayer. Continue to grow closer to the Lord this week by reading His Word daily. I thank you for joining me today, it’s been fun talking with you. If you got lost during the chat process, check back later to find the edited chat dialogue posted in the archives, there you can read it at your own pace. We, at Midlife Dimensions, will remember you and your marriages in prayer throughout the week. Warmly in Christ, Jim. (Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. James 4:8)

7:01 HoneyGurlTina: Yes, thank you so very much Jim for being here and helping us.

7:01 Rollercoasterider: Pelagius: My Ow wasn't like that--she kept taking Sweetheart back. Yours...once the greater fears sets in, maybe she'll be history. Eventually they figure out that this person is a proven cheater and they begin to wonder.

7:01 LisaK [Administrator]: I’m back as me now.

7:02 Pelagius: Lia @ 7:01 exercise will work off some of that frustration!

7:02 HoneyGurlTina: Really Steadfast? it is really nice to know someone else understands that

7:02 Pelagius: Rollercoasterider @ 7:01, yes, my h's OW keeps taking him back, every month after he's come home for a few days. This could go on for a while. !!

7:03 Lia: Jim 6:59 Yes I agree. Remember my oldest has suffered parental alienation towards me because father & it seems he is trying to do this with son dtr 13 always seems be third wheel very sad & I try teach them of MLC but say need pray for these things & dad

7:03 Pelagius: Hi Lisa!

7:03 HoneyGurlTina: welcome back Lisa Sweetie

7:03 Rollercoasterider: Pelagius: But the end of the affair does not mean the end of MLC. Each situation is different.

7:03 Pelagius: Rollercoasterider, OW won't give up, I don't think, without a fight. And sometimes I fear my poor h must feel like a ping-pong ball!

7:03 Rollercoasterider: Pelagius: he comes home for a few days...is this planned or attempts to return?

7:04 steadfast: HGT: Yep. It really hurts too

7:04 LisaK [Administrator]: Lord God, please help us to make amends with sincere hearts that are free from bitterness and blame. Please bless this chat in the archives as others read it, that it would be helpful to them and bring glory to You. In Jesus’ Name, Amen

7:04 HoneyGurlTina: Steadfast, yes it sure does

7:04 Pelagius: Rollercoasterider, they never truly break up for good, but he does come home. I don't know if he's conscious that he shows up at the same time each month, but I am. !!

7:04 Pelagius: Thank you Lisa!

7:04 Rollercoasterider: I’m standing for my marriage/by kneeling down to pray... Fighting only causes fighting. Peace is the answer

7:04 LisaK [Administrator]: OK ladies, I'll shut the door at 7:06, so quick....say bye! ;O)

7:04 HoneyGurlTina: Amen

7:05 HoneyGurlTina: I Love you all, Bye Bye

7:05 Lia: Pelagius, 7:02 Oh yeah I teach Pilates, but this may held make my upper body buff!!!!! & it's a little cardio too. I can pull up 8 ft roots & cut brush & trees too. Need try machete ha, ha & sledge hammer maybe the pick axe is good release too LOL

7:05 LisaK [Administrator]: Come back on Wednesday night, 6 pm PST, to chat with our amazing facilitators.

7:05 Pelagius: Rollercoasterider, @ 6:04, me too. I’m not fighting at all, and I’m not in a contest. I’m not his second choice, I’m his first one. He's just confused. !! But God will win the battle.

7:05 Pelagius: Night all!

7:05 LisaK [Administrator]: Anger is a sin when it is accompanied by bitterness, blame, and unforgiveness. "Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger" (Ephesians 4:31).

7:05 steadfast: all: final word. Was encouraged by an elderly woman who had a stroke and could hardly get out of her pew said to me praying for you every day and praying your h comes to senses

7:06 Rollercoasterider: All: Goodnight

7:06 Pelagius: Oh steadfast! Sweet! God's prayer warriors are everywhere!

7:06 LisaK [Administrator]: Good evening all. See you next time. God Bless.

7:06 Pelagius: Goodnight precious people!

7:06 steadfast: Tears came to my eyes after 2 years some are still praying for me while most want me to give up

7:07 Lia: Hey all wish we could keep going & catch up with everyone. God's blessings to all & our dear prodigals we love & miss. goodnight all

7:07 steadfast: All: have a great week and God bless. You are in my prayers

7:08 LisaK [Administrator]:
For a list of media recommendations by Jim Conway, Midlife Dimensions, Lisa Kahan, and our Chat Room Facilitators, please visit Amazon via our special link: http://astore.amazon.com/midlife-20. Amazon sends a donation to the non-profit ministry of Midlife Dimensions anytime an order is placed via our link. We hope you enjoy the various lists of recommendations and thank you for supporting Midlife Dimensions through Amazon.

April 27, 2009 / with JIM CONWAY

5:59 LisaK [Administrator]: Good Evening. Welcome to Monday Night Chat with Jim. I’m Lisa, the Office Manager for Midlife Dimensions. I’m blessed to serve the Lord through our Chat Room Ministry which has helped so many people through their spouse’s midlife journey. Jim Conway will be online with us shortly and as he reads your questions, he’ll dictate his answers for me to type and post for you to see. He will answer all questions that come in before the end of the hour.

6:01 Cricket2: Hi all - Hope you all had a nice weekend. Thanks to Jim, Jan & Lisa for your birthday message.

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9). Lord, our hope is in You. You are the faithful and loving God. In You, we will find everything we need. Fill us, Lord. In Jesus’ name, Amen.

6:02 LisaK [Administrator]: Cricket - HI!!! Were you able to see my video? I couldn't get it to go through to some facilitators. :O(

6:02 LisaK [Administrator]: Welcome TiredB.

6:02 TiredB2: Hi chat buddies, boy have I missed all of you..... Computer had the Satan virus.......ARGH!!!!!!!

6:03 sbky: hello all

6:04 TiredB2: Cricket: I am so happy for you, I really am enjoying watching your progress. I know we will each experience the great strides you are taking in our own lives I see it a lot with my H and am very encouraged.

6:05 TiredB2: Cricket: I meant to say great strides you are taking

6:05 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Hi everyone. I’m here now. A little on the tired side, but I’m here and ready for questions.

6:05 TiredB2: Welcome, Lisa, Jim, Sbky and cheyanne

6:06 cheyanne: hi everyone

6:06 Cricket2: Sunday @ church, 2 members were given Ps 34:8 ,9- Taste and see that the Lord is good, blessed in man who takes refuge in him. Fear the Lord, you & his saints, for those who fear him lack nothing.

6:06 Cricket2: Lisa -Yes I was able to view the video, it really touched my heart, thank you.

6:07 TiredB2: Jim: my h has started looking me in the eye when he talks, laughs again, and opens my door and offers me his hand.... says his heart is with me but apologizes that he doesn't show it, says he’s a bum....that progress right?

6:13 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: TiredB2: Wow, this is exciting to hear what is happening with you and your husband - yes this is definite and exciting progress. When he refers to himself as a bum, tell him that he was just battling with a crisis that was not really him. Then tell him that you are so proud of him that he has the courage to work through this - that he is an amazing man.

6:08 Cricket2: All- My H had called just as chat started but he has been even warmer the past couple days. I wonder if it's because I had chance to tell him I understood he fought mlc, med's, doctors & counseling - I didn't blame him & never stopped loving him.

6:08 TiredB2: Lisa: did you ever find out why the chat room always kicks me out?

6:09 Swanlake: Hello everyone

6:10 new yorker: Hi, this is my first time on your chat room

6:10 sbky: tired b what kind of internet connection do you have?

6:10 Cricket2: All -Conversation came up naturally & when I told him I knew he really tried not to give in to mlc & that when nothing helped, he looked for a quick fix. He said, YEAH. I said I understood & that I share that in our group. I won't bring it up again

6:10 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: New Yorker, WELCOME! I’m Jim Conway, President of Midlife Dimensions. This room is here to encourage you and answer questions you have about your current situation. Important: Do NOT share personal information such as an email or home address, phone #, or any names. Here’s how to join in: 1) Type the name of the person you want to speak to followed by your entry. 2) You’re limited to 250 keystrokes per entry. If your entry is long, then click “chat” to post it and start your next entry with the word “continued”. 3) Type “To All” if you have a general entry not directed to one person. 4) If you’d like to contact someone in the room, email or call us at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. or 714-768-1777. We’ll have them contact you to exchange information.

6:11 Cricket2: All - It was the next day that he gave me my birthday card and had signed it with love, this was the first time he signed anything with love since he left.

6:12 Cricket2: TiredB - I guess the chat room just doesn't like your computer! LOL... some of us have gone thru that with old chat room, not really with this one that I know

6:12 vsingh: Hello all

6:13 Cricket2: New Yorker - Welcome, this room has been such a blessing for me & other here. The Lord led me here when my H left due to midlife crisis (mlc). No one really understands our pain that hasn't been there, this group is wonderful & wise

6:13 TiredB2: sbky I have a wireless connection

6:13 new yorker: Dr. Jim, thank you! Glad to be joining you!

6:13 cheyanne: Jim, my sons case is moving forward and xh and I met with his attorney. all went reasonably well I did not have a clue where XH was in his mind in relation to sons case, we appeared to be on the same page as we move through next phases of case .... I emailed H follow up questions from our meeting. He came off short in one thing where I questioned the attorney and made a reference to the loser divorce attorney verse this great attorney...I thought that would be a time bomb. I did not touch that comment and it is the second one in a recent email about all the money on the divorce, thinking I should only keep him in the loop if he asks about sons case..not keep him in the loop it’s probably too much for him

6:19 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: cheyanne: Sometimes good things come out of when divorced people work together to solve their kid's problems. Keep trusting God to work in all of your lives - keep praying for God's blessings to be seen through all of your lives.

6:13 sbky: tired b I had problems when I had dial up. but not now that I have satellite connection

6:15 Cricket2: TiredB - THAT IS WONDERFUL PROGRESS... PTL. Don't push, I’m learning first hand that it takes time for our H's to work thru their quilt, pain and just find their way back. They don't feel worthy, need to see if we really can forgive, etc

6:15 new yorker: Cricket2 Thank you for your warm welcome!

6:15 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Cricket - It is so exciting to see what God is doing in your life and in your husband's life. Things are so different now compared to when it seemed so hopeless. This is fun for me to watch - yeah for you and yeah for God!

6:16 TiredB2: Jim: Cricket - both of you, thank you so much.....I have had such trouble believing this is real progress,,,,,

6:16 Cricket2: Jim -I'd been feeling that I needed to tell my H that I forgave him but not sure how to bring it up. I'd prayed God would open that door if right. It did seem to happen right & I wonder if that's what's caused H to sign card w/love & be warmer. Yes you have been there from the 1st day, you encouraged me to come to chat when I really didn’t think it was something I'd be comfortable with, you put me in touch with AnnaSurvived.. so I hope you know how much you've helped


6:21 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Cricket2: It really has been fun to watch this process and I assure you that God is not done yet. Remember there are other women who would like to use your special "38 skills".

6:17 TiredB2: Cricket: how exciting

6:18 TiredB2: Cricket & Jim: I believe that the job change was a really great thing....... for him and for us

6:19 Cricket2: TiredB- Just know that usually there are steps forward and then little back steps. Don't get discouraged if he pulls away, he will work thru this. Sometimes we get impatient when we see progress & can sabotage progress if we push

6:19 TiredB2: Hi Swan, steadfast, new yorker, yoli and Vsingh.......

6:19 vsingh: tiredb: hi, sorry, I am multi tasking

6:20 cheyanne: Jim it’s hard to hear that he does have interest in son, but doesn’t visit him or really want to know details of how he is doing...so thinking it’s best to let him ask or should I keep him informed....recently we spoke about son,,,1st conversation in a very long time since we just finish the divorce process now we get to go into my sons criminal case heating up.....

6:23 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: cheyanne: It's a good idea to let your husband set the pace about when he wants to talk about your son - he is going to feel less tense now that he is officially divorced.

6:20 Yoli: TiredB2:Hi, how are you? Sounds as if things are better for you. That's wonderful.

6:20 TiredB2: Cricket: thank you, your advice and encouragement and watching your growth has been in inspiration to me. Well so many of you have been

6:21 vsingh: new yorker: welcome, are you still with your h?

6:21 Cricket2: All - I actually worried about things not going as well in my trip with H to his parents to celebrate his birthday. FIL's comments/annoyance about me on computer too much & not understanding my helping here, and...

6:21 TiredB2: Yoli and vsingh: I am doing good...... how have each of you been doing.... I follow the emails, but have not had any opportunities until today to read many of them or respond

6:21 new yorker: Hi tiredB2

6:21 helpme: hello everyone

6:21 vsingh: tiredb: not much to add, leaving it to the Lord

6:22 Cricket2: All -I worried about a couple comments I made (old habits) to defend myself when they made "old comments/age" referring to my birthday, since I’m older than my H. I replied that many think my H is older (they do) but wished I hadn't. Break old habits

6:22 Yoli: TiredB2:I'm okay. Just tired. Getting ready for daughter's graduation. It happens in 3 weeks.

6:22 new yorker: vsingh: Yes my husband is with me, but we have a dead relationship.

6:23 sbky: yoli my nephew is graduating from high school

6:23 vsingh: new yorker: I am sorry. I'll keep your in prayer

6:23 Yoli: sbky: That's great. Where is he going to college?

6:23 sbky: yoli, at first here in eastern KY to get some of his basics

6:23 TiredB2: Jim: what are these specialty "38 skills" you refer to?

6:25 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: TiredB2: I can't give you too much information other than to say that one of the women in the chat room is a retired police officer.

6:24 cheyanne: thanks Jim I am doing that trying to discern how much I should share with H, since I noticed him make comments about the money in the divorce....man it was hard to zip the lips but I did..it is so hard to see how they see things..how do they think ?

6:24 TiredB2: Yoli: she is graduating from HS or college

6:24 Cricket2: All- It's just that although we all are working on growing and healing, it is so easy to fall back into old habits and/or become defensive as our self esteem is so damaged during this journey. I prayed for forgiveness for my back steps & help in grow

6:25 Yoli: sbky: There's nothing wrong with that. I went to a junior college for 2 years for free then transferred to Tech. Younger daughter wouldn't even entertain this idea.

6:25 new yorker: vsingh and all: Thank you, I'll keep all of you and your families in prayer too

6:25 TiredB2: Cricket: it does take a lot of constant focus on Jesus and prayer to get us through huh!

6:25 Cricket2: Jim - Yes in the early days, there was a group of us who joked about sharing a big 2 x 4, or Pam's cane when she was recovering but I had the best tool available for that

6:33 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Cricket2: Yes, there are always a few men around who need a good 2 x 4 upside the head.

6:25 sbky: yoli he is going to a university just one closer to home

6:25 TiredB2: Jim: kinda thought that was the reference....

6:26 Cricket2: TiredB - Yes Sunday I sat in church & asked the Lord to give me more grace & humility.

6:26 Yoli: TiredB2:From high school. It's interesting because each student only got 6 tickets. I requested more but h didn't. So know I’m having to make sure that he gets his tickets. Funny how he doesn't want anything to do with me but yet wants my help.

6:26 cheyanne: Jim ok that sounds good, that was the way I was leaning too...let him set the pace but in the mean time I am going to follow up on things that are important for my son as I have to make sure they get followed up on

6:26 helpme: Swanlake; I'm moving this Friday, apartment will be waiting for me & the kids are coming to help me move, been packing today.

6:26 Yoli: sbky: Oh, sorry. There's nothing wrong with that either. I didn't really have any say or input into daughter's decision. I was a little hurt but just keep my mouth shut.

6:27 TiredB2: Yoli: they (our h) do still need us...... they are just too selfish for a while to ask or try

6:27 sbky: yoli I am a senior in college.. after this semester I will like 10 hours to graduate with a 4 year general studies with an emphasis on business

6:27 Swanlake: helpme - moving! that is good, glad it is finally happening and it is really great that the kids are going help you.

6:28 Yoli: TiredB2:If I were really as awful as he made me out to be I wouldn't even bother to send him anything or to have even asked him how many tickets he needs. Then I feel like I get kicked in the teeth when he doesn't want to talk.

6:28 cheyanne: Jim my other son had a baseball game recently and he shared with me OW showed up at his dads house right before they were leaving with her Baseball hat on and son had no idea she was going...son told her not to come, it would be disrespectful

6:28 TiredB2: Cricket: it seems so much more important now at this stage of healing and growth in our H, to need to stay even more connected with God and our path He is paving]

6:28 Cricket2: TiredB - You know my history right, does it make sense now?

6:29 helpme: Swanlake; Yes, looks like it's actually coming together...and I'll have help!!

6:29 sbky: cheyanne I have seen the ow show up at other kids games in the past.. it really has an effect on the kids..

6:29 cheyanne: Jim cont, the OW did not go to the game and he said his dad said very little....he told me he is not disrespectful to her but it would be wrong for her to come to the game since I would be there we are divorced too

6:29 Yoli: sbky: Well good for you. that's great. I know how hard it is to go back to school when you have kids. I went back to college when daughters were 7 and 3. Finished with master's when they were 12 and 8. It was hard because I had to take care of their needs first and then do homework or study.

6:29 TiredB2: Cricket : your history...... I think so..... your job path correct?

6:30 Swanlake: helpme - God watches over us and seems it is His timing, so things will work for good.

6:30 new yorker: all: is this chat room for men leaving their wives, or is it also for marriages with problems?

6:36 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: new yorker: We have guests and facilitators here that are all in different seasons of their journey through midlife crisis and marriage. Some are separated, some divorced, some have restored marriages. Some are just here to learn how to have better marriages. We get both men and women in here searching for the key to saving their marriages.


6:31 helpme: Swanlake; I just wish Pastor's wife wasn't so upset at me for moving, that makes me sad.

6:31 TiredB2: Yoli.... that’s true but at this point in our H life especially we need to be all we can be.... in-spite of their attitudes and lack of concern for us. It's a very fine line too

6:31 cheyanne: Jim I did hear she had went to one out of town baseball event that I was not at and only one or two players from my sons team had been invited...maybe when she went to that it got son thinking I was just surprised ...glad I don’t have to deal with that

6:31 Yoli: Jim: Seems that h is communicating more although through texts, even said "sorry" about the problems with child support. Seems to be minor but positive.

6:40 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Yoli: This is a positive indication - and remember that men are very cautious about reconnecting - so keep doing all the positive things which are helping him connect.

6:32 sbky: yoli I started when my kids was 4 and 18 months.. I have always went part-time.. I went for about 4 years just taking a couple of classes. quit with 65 credit.. and started back in 2006 when h left..

6:32 Swanlake: helpme - I cannot believe she is still acting so selfishly, you have to do what is best for you and your family and if she is angry and refuses to understand, that is on her. It is sad though.

To all: This is Lisa the Office Manager. I just want to remind you that if you have a private question you don’t wish to discuss here, please consider scheduling a 1-on-1 phone counseling session with Jim. Contact us at 714-768-1777 or This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. to set up a session. You can find information on phone counseling on our website: www.midlife.com. Remember, Jim always offers his live counseling in the chat room without cost. If you wish to donate to our ministry to support the Website/Chat Room upkeep, please do so at www.Midlife.com. Thank you.

6:32 TiredB2: Welcome Kmkrn: how has your week been

6:32 cheyanne: helpme you did move....I haven’t seen you on the chat for so long either...do you still go to the church or is it too far now

6:33 Yoli: TiredB2:I know you're right, it's just frustrating that I’m still trying to do things for him even when there's no contact. but that's okay. I really do believe that god has this under control.

6:33 Hannah2: hi everybody

6:33 kmkrn1: TiredB - great....How about you?

6:33 cheyanne: hi hannah

6:33 Hannah2: hey new yorker here is another new yorker.

6:34 kmkrn1: Hannah - I told my H about your new computer background picture. :-)

6:34 Yoli: sbky: That's good though. I think it also helps our children see us do something for ourselves even though we have lots of responsibility. I bet your children are proud of you and will give you the biggest cheers.

6:34 new yorker: Hi Hannah 2, glad to meet ya

6:35 helpme: cheyanne; I am moving this Friday, it will be way too far to go to church here. Sorry, have just been going through some stuff and kind of shut down almost on life itself.

6:35 kmkrn1: New Yorker - What is it that you have questions about tonight? We're here to help everyone.

6:35 TiredB2: Yoli: you are correct about God...He has everything under control.....we are just asked to trust him and not worry or fear our circumstances. I know it’s not easy... but just think of the blessing and rewards He has for you for being the woman He asks

6:35 cheyanne: helpme I understand ...plus I haven’t been on as much either so wasn’t sure ..

6:36 Yoli: TiredB2:Well said. Thanks.

6:36 TiredB2: Yoli : for you to be

6:36 Hannah2: new yorker, I live in New York in the Adirondacks.

6:36 Yoli: All: Thanks for the help.

6:36 cheyanne: helpme ----- you have been through a lot and none of this stuff is easy

6:36 helpme: cheyanne; Just because I wasn't here doesn't mean I forgot about you all though, you all are very special to me :)

6:37 new yorker: TiredB2: It's important not to isolate but stay in relationship with believers

6:37 cheyanne: helpme-- sometimes we expect more out of pastors wives....and we have to remember they are just people too. ....we all have our things..but I know when my friend tells me about her pastors wife reaction on some things I think oh ....then I remember

6:38 Hannah2: New yorker would you like to share your story?

6:38 new yorker: kmkrn1: I’m dealing with a dead marriage and figuring out whether it can be saved

6:38 TiredB2: new yorker....exactly..... I hope I did not mis-speak about something

6:39 cheyanne: helpme....I know what you mean..it’s like you know this place is here and it’s a very good feeling

6:40 kmkrn1: New yorker - First you have to figure out what made it sick before you can prescribe the proper treatment to save it--the prescription can be found in your Bible! Did you see the movie "Fireproof?"

6:41 TiredB2: Good evening Brin and Hannah 2

6:41 helpme: cheyanne; I know it sounds weird but I just felt like I was just plain tired...of everything, even my life. Then when I learned my son was going overseas it was almost too much to deal with, but people

6:42 new yorker: hannah2: To answer your question, we're more like roommates than spouses. We're facing a mountain of problems ... it's very hard.

6:43 helpme: cheyanne; Cont; have been praying and I 'think' I’m doing some better. I’m trying now to deal with the statement that my H is getting married to ow but trying not to let it get to me.

6:43 Cricket2: Jim - Yes I know for sure that God is not done yet. Also, I always knew I would have to work not to slip back into old habits, but also I don't want to walk on eggs with in laws or H & not be able to be me.

6:47 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Cricket2: Yes, it is very important that you don't rush the reconnection. Make sure that there are real life changes made. Would your husband read a book such as "The Purpose Driven Life"?

6:44 kmkrn1: new yorker - Are you in counseling? No problem is too great for our God! If His Son can be resurrected, so can your marriage! We all understand and have gone through similar situations.

6:44 new yorker: Yes we saw Fireproof, and I am doing the Love Dare right now

6:44 Brin2: Hi TiredB and everyone.

6:45 new yorker: kmkrn1: he's not willing to counsel

6:45 steadfast: Hi to all as usual was just trying to catch up on the dialogue.

6:46 cheyanne: helpme..I am sorry to hear you have been dealing with a lot...oh my, you are in my prayers...I know at times like this you have to really connect with knowing how much God loves you...and that can never be taken from you and that’s more than enough

6:46 kmkrn1: new yorker - Then you are on the right track! Hang in there and hold onto Jesus during this difficult time. He will give you the peace and grace to see it through. Never give up! Do you have children? Have you read Jim's books?

6:47 Brin2: Jim, My H wants to meet and talk but won't be able to for about 2 weeks. I am nervous about talking to him as I am losing trust in him, and doubt his motives even when he's showing some concern, which is accompanied by desire to talk about D probably.

6:53 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Brin2: Generally, when there is a delay in talking to someone, it's easy for Satan to play with our mind, and we begin to imagine the worst - this is the time to really ask God to give you quietness and to just accomplish His purpose through your life.

6:47 steadfast: Jim: My h shared with me that settling his dad's affairs re the will and dealing with siblings who were difficult was the most stressful thing he has endured in his life. Of course, I was tired and immediately hurt that the breakdown of our marriage didn't rank up there as the most stressful h now just trying to wrap up issues re his f 's will. Everyone has encouraged me that this is positive that he would share this with me. How do you see this. P.S. I didn't tell h I was upset. Sent him a compassionate email instead and an encouraging article to read

6:54 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: steadfast: You are right on target - and this is a great time to be his best friend as he wrestles through his father's estate with his siblings.

6:47 cheyanne: helpme, I have started preparing myself that may be the next step my h takes as well and I have no idea but remember that God loves me and there is a plan for my life beyond being a LBS

6:47 Hannah2: new yorker where abouts are you in the state

6:48 TiredB2: new yorker: are you enjoying the principle of the Love Dare...... I really enjoyed watching it all transpire from helping me learn about my walk and helping me learn Gods love for my h

6:48 new yorker: kmkrn1 My first husband died, I have 1 grown married son. We don't have children together. No, I haven't read Jim's books, but I heard him talk.

6:49 Hannah2: new yorker you need to read Jims books especially Men in Midlife

6:50 new yorker: Hannah 2: I grew up in the Bronx, and lived in the Village while going to college. Am relocated now for many years, but once an new yorker always a new yorker at heart:)

6:50 kmkrn1: new yorker - I’m sorry to hear about your first husband. How awful for you!

6:51 new yorker: TiredB2 To tell you the Truth, I’m like the guy was at the beginning, having a hard time putting my heart into it, not getting anywhere

6:51 helpme: cheyanne; When I get moved I want so much to find a good caring church, pray the Lord will lead me to one :)

6:52 Cricket2: All - Sorry all, I got a phone call from a friend who needs prayer.

6:53 Brin2: Jim [6:47 cont.], How would you advise me re: preparing for my talk with H? I have been staying quiet for a few weeks now to let him miss me instead of thinking I am needy when I send him joke emails or words of affirmation every 2 weeks.

6:55 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Brin2: The best way to prepare for the talk with your husband is to be deepening your walk with God so that God will give you the words to say when you meet with your husband.

6:53 Hannah2: lets pray then cricket

6:53 TiredB2: new yorker: Caleb from Fireproof didn't really put his all into it until about half way through the dare, but eventually and with his parents prayer for him and his co workers encouragement, he put his all into it...... it may just take a few days,

6:53 TiredB2: New yorker cont: but it is really rewarding.....

6:54 new yorker: all: Have you heard of a new book called Thriving in a Difficult Marriage? I ordered it and that's exactly where I’m at. Deciding if I can thrive in my sit.

6:54 kmkrn1: new yorker - It is hard in the beginning! But what a transformation and peace you will feel when you trust in Jesus with your spouse--no matter how they react to you--that's the key!

6:54 Swanlake: Goodnight all, see you later this week

6:54 new yorker: I will get a copy of Jim's book, thanx

6:54 Brin2: Jim@6:53, I am pretty sure he wants to talk D because I was supposed to process the last D conversation.

6:54 Cricket2: All - Please pray that the plumber finds AND fixes the heating problem in her roommate who will be 96 yrs old next month. They've been out several times, left thinking it was fixed and it hasn't been. She thinks supernatural problem.

6:55 Cricket2: All - This friend is one who prays with us so many times.....I send her prayer requests & she puts them on her wall to remind herself to pray.

6:55 helpme: God Bless Each And Every One. In my prayers, good night

6:56 Cricket2: Hannah - My friend immediately said to please bless the person who suggested we join her in prayer.

6:56 TiredB2: Jim and all : God Bless each of you and thank you for who you are in my world.

6:56 steadfast: Jim; Sometimes I get discouraged though trying to be his best friend because I was always there for him to talk to and vent in all his frustrations with work and whatever and he still left me. There's that little part of me that says he won't recognize my positive action because he didn't while we were together but then I think to self --that's the voice of the enemy trying to get me down so I will give up

6:59 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: steadfast: It's very important that you develop some close friendships with women that you can talk to in your local area. Face to face conversations where you can pray together and hug each other become very powerful with this painful experience you're going through. Also, remember that some of the women in the Chat Room will be glad to have telephone connections with you.

6:57 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Brin2: Again, take it 1 step at a time and don't guess what he might want to talk about - the key is to continue trusting God.

6:57 TiredB2: Brin: remember to be still and wait..... Is 40:31 I think

6:57 kmkrn1: new yorker - That sounds like a good book too, although I haven't read it. I have a whole library of books related to marriage difficulties (my H had an affair).

6:57 new yorker: Bless all of you, MIGHTILY, and thank you!!

6:58 TiredB2: Good night all

6:58 Hannah2: Lord Jesus, We come to you in prayer this evening asking you to pour your precious blood over Cricket's friend's roommate and guide the plumber when he fixes the heating problem. Give her roommate peace of mind and know that all is in God's hands.

6:58 Brin2: Jim@6:57, OK. Thanks - you're right. God can change any plan (Prov 16:9).

6:58 Hannah2: Cricket tell her thank you

6:59 Brin2: Hannah@6:58, Cricket, Amen!

6:59 Lia: Sorry so late/ Had really bad eve. The manipulation of my son is getting out hand & it seems like one more kid is being manipulated again. I messed up. But counselor talked about parents becoming Disneyland dads

6:59 Cricket2: Hannah - AMEN, thank you

6:59 Hannah2: new yorker, where in the state do you live. I was wondering if you were close to me.

6:59 kmkrn1: Lia - That sounds pretty accurate--"Disneyland dad" :-)

7:00 Lia: Jim any advice in dealing with parental alienation?

7:02 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lia: Remember that teenagers would likely try to work each of you even though your marriage was great. Also remember that sometimes teenagers, whose parents are in bad marriages, will try to punish the parents with all of their manipulating behaviors.

7:00 steadfast: Hannah: Thank you for that prayer

7:00 Hannah2: Lia, that’s a name that doesn't need any interpretation. Disneyland Dads.

7:00 Lia: All please pray I don't react to rejection & manipulation of my kids. I know as hard as this is me, it's worse for them

7:01 Hannah2: Lia, your covered.

7:01 Cricket2: Hannah - My friend was so touched by your offer to pray and she said what a wonderful group of believers we have, that she sees this in things I share with her.

7:01 Hannah2: Cricket we are an awesome group even if I do say so myself.

7:02 Cricket2: Hannah - She said and YOU ARE RIGHT

7:02 kmkrn1: Thanks Jim and Lisa for your time & advice this evening--it's always appreciated. Good night all. I will say extra prayers for everyone here tonight!

7:02 Hannah2: Cricket LOL. She sounds a wonderful spirited lady

7:02 Lia: Steadfast I think Jim has great point there, my friend came other day & I started crying. She spoke gently to me & just brushed my bangs from my face like I was her child It was so sweet & she's younger & I('m always the mom figure & the one to advise

7:02 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: When we close the Chat Room, I hope you’ll all take time lift each other up in prayer. Continue to grow closer to the Lord this week by reading His Word daily. I thank you for joining me today, it’s been fun talking with you. If you got lost during the chat process, check back later to find the edited chat dialogue posted in the archives, there you can read it at your own pace. We, at Midlife Dimensions, will remember you and your marriages in prayer throughout the week. Warmly in Christ, Jim. (Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. James 4:8)

7:03 Hannah2: goodnight all

7:03 steadfast: Jim: Thanks for all of your advice. I am feeling rather isolated because most friends here want me to give up--they don't want to hear about I have some friends at a distance who still believe. Maybe I will try calling one of our chat room connections

7:03 Lia: All, I have pre-trial @ 11:00 in am please pray for us

7:04 Cricket2: Hannah - She really is a strong Christian and has prayed for me more than once for all of us.

7:04 Lia: Jim how do you deal with that manipulation?

7:04 LisaK [Administrator]: Lord, lead us to a higher realm where You dwell. Lead us into turning over all anger and worry, that we may be free to fully worship you and follow your perfect will for our lives. In Jesus’ name, Amen.


7:05 steadfast: Lia: Thanks for your words

7:05 Brin2: Lisa@7:04, Amen!

7:05 steadfast: Lisa: Thank you for all that you do as well.

7:05 LisaK [Administrator]: The Lord loves those who hate evil; He protects the lives of His people, and rescues them from the wicked. Light is sown for the Godly and joy for the good. (Ps 97:10-11)

7:05 Lia: Steadfast 7:03 Lots of people will tell you to give up. You can email me & I'll give you my # or contact Lisa K for my information, I’d Love to chat with you

7:05 steadfast: All: Praying for you and have an uplifting week in the Lord

7:06 LisaK [Administrator]: Good night everyone. I have to run. Sorry - I'll have to close up now.

7:06 Brin2: All, Good night and have a great week.

7:06 Lia: Lisa Thanks for those lovely words & scriptures

7:07 LisaK [Administrator]:
For a list of media recommendations by Jim Conway, Midlife Dimensions, Lisa Kahan, and our Chat Room Facilitators, please visit Amazon via our special link: http://astore.amazon.com/midlife-20. Amazon sends a donation to the non-profit ministry of Midlife Dimensions anytime an order is placed via our link. We hope you enjoy the various lists of recommendations and thank you for supporting Midlife Dimensions through Amazon.

April 20, 2009 / with JIM CONWAY

6:01 LisaK [Administrator]: Good Evening. Welcome to Monday Night Chat with Jim. I’m Lisa, the Office Manager for Midlife Dimensions. I’m blessed to serve the Lord through our Chat Room Ministry which has helped so many people through their spouse’s midlife journey. Jim Conway will be online with us shortly and as he reads your questions, he’ll dictate his answers for me to type and post for you to see. He will answer all questions that come in before the end of the hour.

6:01 TiredB2: good evening Ladies

6:01 Suz215: Greetings and welcome.....

6:01 TiredB2: Good evening Swan

6:02 Suz215: Sister.....Hi there!

6:02 Swanlake: Hello everyone

6:02 Pelagius: Hi all!

6:02 Maracaibo: Maracaibo says hello

6:02 TiredB2: Pelagius Hello how have you been

6:03 Pelagius: I have a bit to report. My husband came home Friday night and this time I thought it was really going to stick. OW had been mean and hateful and abusive to him. But by Sunday he was missing her and left again.

6:03 Suz215: Greetings and welcome to e'one!

6:03 Pelagius: TiredB2 @ 6:02, not bad, you? Just recovering from his monthly weekend visit. Thought he might stay this time and so did he.

6:03 TiredB2: Maracaibo, Good to have you here with us

6:03 Pelagius: Hi Maracaibo!

6:03 Swanlake: Suz - greetings to you

6:04 TiredB2: Pelagius: It is only a season, God is working on him.....

6:04 Suz215: Pelagius: That's when you focus upward...let God do His thing! Keep your focus on Him!!!!

6:04 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Aloha Chat Room Family! Jan and I are in Hawaii teaching at the YWAM base in Kona, Hawaii, University of the Nations. I’m grateful you’re here today to support each other and commit to working on your marriages. I know you’re hurting inside, and I want to encourage you to not let that pain become hurtful to your family or anyone in the chat room. Although I want you to feel safe and openly share your pain so we can help you, I ask that you’re careful not to criticize anyone or add difficulties to their situation. God’s Word tells us that we are to encourage and build up one another, not tear each other down, let’s live that out today by our actions in this room. Destructive words don’t belong here or in emails to each other. I’m ready for your questions so let’s get started.

6:04 Pelagius: TiredB2 @ 6:04, thanks. He comes home at the middle of the month like clockwork. Suz215 @ 6:04, thanks! I think I have made a lot of progress not focusing on the OW as the problem!

6:05 maracaibo: Thank you, I am new to the chat but not new to the trial and tribulations!

6:05 TiredB2: Pelagius: I am doing good, trying to learn to believe and trust what my h is saying...... it is all worth praise, but I am still very skeptical

6:05 Pelagius: maracaibo @ 6:05, how long for you?

6:05 TiredB2: Lia and steadfast: Hello

6:06 Pelagius: TiredB2 @ 6:05, oh my, tell me about it! He had said he had almost $1000 for the taxes, but this weekend he confessed he lied! He has told me he will no longer press me for divorce, but if OW asks, I’m not to tell her that! I said, when am I EVER going to talk to HER again!

6:06 Suz215: Pelagius: remember...where that doubt comes from....don't let it take hold of you.....share and get back on your knees!

6:06 Maracaibo: My wife left in March of 08, we divorced in Aug 08. We were married 22 years and together 30 years

6:06 steadfast: Hello to all

6:07 Pelagius: Suz215 @ 6:06, I've learned a couple of things. Instead of trying to tell him things for him to think about or that will help him, I am just honest about how I feel. We talked for 3 hours this weekend and he has dropped his demand for divorce.

6:07 TiredB2: Jim: to jump right in..... I believe all the things going on with my h are a praise. Is there a way to really know that it’s the truth..... it seems so I am just so skeptical..... is that normal as they emerge from the tunnel? Is it crazy to ask when the intimacy will come back? We have so much fun together, he opens my car door and helps me out again, looks me in the eye when we talk and laughs. Says he enjoys spending time with me, but something has changed and he doesn’t know what it is...... I don’t push just show love and praise

6:21 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: TiredB2: What is happening to you sounds extremely positive. Think of yourself as baking an angel food cake. If you pull it out of the oven too quickly, it won't fully rise. If you pull it out and bump it around too much, it will also go flat - in other words....leave the cake alone and let the oven finish the cooking process. The same thing is true in this recovery process - let God continue to cause your relationship to be more and more spontaneous - don't force it.

6:07 Pelagius: Suz215 @ 6:06, he also keeps commenting on my looks, how much weight I’ve lost. he told me this weekend that there was nothing wrong with me (except one thing - bringing home a problem from work, or really conflict with a problem person).

6:08 Suz215: Maracaibo: Please know that we are all in different stages of walking/waiting.....we are all here to hear and share!

6:08 Pelagius: Suz 215 @ 6:06, that problem no longer exists, and he said he took our marriage for granted.

6:08 Lia: Pelagius 6:03 I’m glad he came home, but am sad for you too. I pray that was a false start & the next one will be the real thing!

6:08 Suz215: Pelagius: Amen....sing that praise Sister!!!!!!

6:08 Pelagius: maracaibo @ 6:06, oh my, I am so sorry. Mine left in July of 08 but began his affair in April...

6:08 TiredB2: Pelagius: I think that is the way to go...... to share our honest feelings. To be real and content without lives..... they see that as a strength..... and a comfort.

6:09 Suz215: Alfon: welcome!

6:09 Alfon: hi hello

6:09 Alfon: thank u

6:09 TiredB2: Alfon & Hannah Hello

6:09 Pelagius: Lia @ 6:08, thanks. It is painful when he leaves, and I cry a bit; but the reality is, when he comes home, he is open to hearing about what MLC, and I share websites and resources with him. And his new password for his e-mail is "Great Spirit."

6:09 Pelagius: Lia @ 6:08, he is looking for God now...in a way he wasn't before.

6:09 Pelagius: Hi Alfon & Hannah2!

6:09 Suz215: Sister H: Hello....2 nights in a row......maybe I’m fishing on the right side of the boat!

6:10 Suz215: Alfon: New?

6:10 Alfon: hi hello all

6:10 maracaibo: Thank you Suz 215. At this point I’m not sure what to say. I've gone through the shock, depression and loss but don't know much of anything except that my ExW is truly lost.

6:10 Pelagius: TiredB2 @ 6:08, thanks! It's funny, but now that I do that, he is more receptive to info about things he can do to help. He started back on his anti-depressants...

6:10 Alfon: greetings from the Philippines

6:10 Lia: Pelagius 6:06 PTL he's not pressing you for divorce

6:10 Alfon: yes I am new

6:10 Suz215: Pelagius : You're doing good....

6:11 Suz215: Alfon: Howdy y'all...from Texas!

6:11 Pelagius: Lia @ 6:10, amen! That is a load off my mind! Suz215 @ 6:10, thanks! Saturday he called me "Hollywood," and he repeated several of our old routines, like shopping together.

6:11 Hannah2: Alfon, what time is it there?

6:11 Pelagius: Hey, who is from Texas?! I lived there a long time and loved it?

6:11 maracaibo: I’m from Texas

6:11 Alfon: it’s 9:12 in the morning

6:12 Suz215: Alfon: Please feel free to share...we are all in different stages of our walk with our spouses.

6:12 TiredB2: Pelagius: it is great he's no pressing tor D.....

6:12 Alfon: ah ok

6:12 Pelagius: Lia @ 6:10, we'll see how long that lasts, since OW will be pressing him soon. I honestly believe he is looking for a reason to leave her. He asked me why I didn't text her last time he was home to tell her we shared intimate time together. (cont)

6:12 Pelagius: (cont) I said, you asked me not to. And besides, it has to be your decision!

6:12 Lia: Jim H just called to talk to kids wanted talk to me, but I can't take anymore abuse & being walked all over & used. I told kids to say I was busy & I'd call tomorrow. Is that bad. I desperately want to talk to him, but he only talks to me if I can make things easy like I always have & if it gets him what he wants, otherwise, he's abusive. Was that wrong?

6:23 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lia: It's absolutely right for you not to put yourself in the position of being verbally abused. There are also times when you don't have the emotional or physical energy to talk to your husband. That's absolutely ok. Generally it's helpful to say "can we talk about this on Thursday when I have more time, I’m rushed right now."

6:12 steadfast: Jim: When a spouse wants to come home--not that I am at this point with h but if the spouse wants to come home do you open the door immediately or insist on dating &/or counseling for both before they return home

6:27 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: steadfast: Generally the process is more and more contacts and the conversations become more friendly, and when you get to that point, let's talk about how you handle the need to get some things straightened up through counseling.

6:13 Hannah2: Alfon you have come to the right place. We support each other, empathize, sympathize, pray and share together.

6:13 Pelagius: Digimom! How are you? steadfast @ 6:12, thanks for that question. I’m wrestling with that. H wants an apartment but has no job, and I know he needs to get over OW before he'll REALLY stay.

6:13 Suz215: Alfon: Thanks for sharing your morning with us!

6:13 Alfon: my wife right now is in Singapore she works there but unfortunately her contract finished already but she is hired by another company but she waiting for the working permit

6:13 Pelagius: Lia @ 6:13, yes, my h gets angry or annoyed or pesters me if things aren't going his way!

6:14 Pelagius: Alfon, wow, hi, good morning!

6:14 Alfon: I am praying for her that her working permit be soon be released

6:15 Alfon: we have 4 children

6:15 Hannah2: Alfon we too will pray in agreement with you.

6:15 Alfon: 2 girls and 2 boys

6:15 Suz215: Amen Alfon!

6:15 Pelagius: maracaibo, I lived in a few places in Texas and loved every one of them. I was born there but my parents moved when I was born. Alfon @ 6:15, yes, we will!

6:15 Alfon: amen thank u

6:16 Suz215: Pelagius /Maracaibo: I’m in TX but originally from Michigan!

6:16 Lia: Alfon, welcome

6:16 Pelagius: Oh guys, guess what? I told my h I was looking at a job in another state. He told OW, told her she should be glad, that I would no longer be 25 miles down the road. She said, you two are hatching a plot and you'll leave to go be with her. (cont)

6:16 Alfon: when my wife went to work in Singapore last year five months after she arrived there marriage problems came up

6:16 Pelagius: (cont) Wow! Talk about insecure!

6:16 maracaibo: Well if everything goes according to plan I may move from Texas to Alaska. I love the outdoors

6:16 Suz215: Hi Lia: How are you doing?

6:17 steadfast: TiredB : catch me up. I know that you are reconnecting with your h. Is he home now? How many years has it been for you in waiting?

6:17 Pelagius: Suz @ 6:16, NW of SA - wonderful! Quite a change from Michigan! And maracaibo, Alaska will be quite a change from Texas!

6:17 TiredB2: Pelagius: the ow are very insecure. they try to be like us, and are very insecure about our relationships with our own h.

6:17 Pelagius: Yes, TiredB, catch me up too! How are you?

6:18 Pelagius: DigiMom no migraine tonight I hope!

6:18 Lia: Jim last week you said if I could, let day changes with kids slide which I usually would do. H takes great advantage of this he only wants to switch so he doesn't have take kids to court appt counselor since H fighting a Christian counselor. Yesterday he found out I wanted go play paintball with son Sat. It's tech his w/e but he works Sat days & last time I didn't play PB on my w/e so he could. H threatened me with restraining order for harassment if I played paintball. If I always keep making everything easy for him like everyone else incl. his business partner & sort of friends, aren't I still enabling him to lead totally self-absorbed life he's always lead?

6:31 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lia: Be careful not to use kids or activities as a tool to manipulate your husband. He may have a problem with being self absorbed for narcissist - but you won't help his problem by trying to force him to change this behavior. He needs to do this process himself through a counselor or a 12 step program. Don't let these minor events become the focus of your connections with your husband.

6:18 TiredB2: steadfast..... I am the one who took a job away from home, but he is asking me to come home more often, said the relationship with the ow is over and has been, he changed jobs and is no longer working with her day in and day out. We are coming together.

6:19 Pelagius: TiredB2 @ 6:17, I guess I just can't figure out why my h is dying to please her, takes her abuse, and feels he is helping her "change" into a better person. I asked him today, when he came to get his stuff that he brought home Friday night (cont)

6:19 Pelagius: (cont) if he wouldn't consider putting the same amount of time into himself and loving himself as he does into her.

6:19 Suz215: Pelagius : I like that "hatching a plot" the OW/Om should know what came first.....the egg or the wife!

6:20 Pelagius: He accepted that. He even asked me Sunday why he thinks he loves her! He has asked that question many times.

6:20 steadfast: tiredB2 how long has this whole process been for you?

6:20 Pelagius: TiredB2 @ 6:19, sounds like you needed some distance from him while he was with OW. I completely understand that. Getting hurt once a month is manageable; getting hurt many times daily? I don't k
now how some of the stalwart women do it, but they do

6:20 TiredB2: Pelagius: The ow have something they are looking for, but they don't want to lose us.

6:20 Suz215: Keeping e'one in prayer....I'm out bike riding....gotta jet before it gets too dark! Love and blessings.....come back new comers!!!! TTFN

6:21 maracaibo: I have a question for anyone. Do any of you think that a spouse that walks away after 30 years can really do so without remorse, fear, sadness, longing and real sustained loss?

6:33 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: maracaibo: I’m sorry that your spouse has walked away. This is a good time for you to ask the question, why would she want to walk away? How are you doing with the issues that women typically complain about when they want to leave their husbands? Women often say their husband: 1) is too controlling, dominating and “it’s all about him.” 2) doesn't understand that I’m growing (spiritually/mentally) as a person and he is not encouraging me in my career, education, or other activities. 3) doesn't take care of his physical body, hygiene, and general appearance (sometimes I can't stand to touch his flabby body).

6:21 DigiMom: Pelagius, you are so sweet to ask about my migraine. Thanks, no I am good, I just have to pop back and forth to make dinner for daughter.

6:21 Pelagius: Night Suz!

6:21 Hannah2: bye sister suzie

6:21 DigiMom: Pelagius, I saw your praise, I am very happy for you.

6:21 Lia: Pelagius 6:16 Give thanks for that insecurity!

6:22 Lia: Suz215 ^:16 I’m ok did you read what I said about H's treats? what's your opinion?

6:22 TiredB2: Jim: thank you!!!! I am really working on letting God handle it all...... I know God is working...

6:22 Pelagius: DigiMom @ 6:21, thanks! Lia @ 6:21, yes, thanks, it makes him CRAZY! Do you know, the employee I had SO much trouble with at work is just like his OW, terribly insecure and slightly unhinged! He asked me how our colleague had married this (cont)

6:22 Pelagius: (cont) woman at work, and I said, well, he got confused about his love for his wife, left her and his kids for this woman, she got her claws in, and now he's miserable and she's still crazy! he laughed, but he got it! ;)

6:23 Pelagius: TiredB2 @ 6:22, you are doing an amazing job of it.

6:23 Alfon: hi guys, I'll go back next time

6:24 Alfon: God bless you all

6:24 Hannah2: Alfon, God bless you too

6:24 Pelagius: Do you know something else I've learned? While my h has been more actively seeking God, he has become more tender to me. Something is happening, anyway. May not make a difference in the final outcome of our marriage, but he's dealing with (cont)

6:24 Alfon: see you next time

6:24 Alfon: it’s wonderful here in the chat room

6:24 Pelagius: Night, Alfon!

6:24 steadfast: God bless you Alfon

6:25 TiredB2: steadfast: it’s been going on for about 2 years, and I am sure it was really going on for a year or so before that....... just manifested itself after I started commuting to work again.

6:25 Pelagius: (cont) things. Saturday I said you seem quiet, are you mourning her. And he said I’m just dealing (with what I've done).

6:25 Pelagius: Our prayers are with you, Alfon!

6:25 Alfon: thank u

6:25 Pelagius: Hi bcoop!

6:25 Alfon: bye for now

6:26 TiredB2: Suz215 have a great bike ride...... I walk daily and just love the time outside in the fresh air, even when it's chilly

6:26 bcoop: Hello

6:35 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Bcoop, WELCOME! I’m Jim Conway, President of Midlife Dimensions. This room is here to encourage you and answer questions you have about your current situation. Important: Do NOT share personal information such as an email or home address, phone #, or any names. Here’s how to join in: 1) Type the name of the person you want to speak to followed by your entry. 2) You’re limited to 250 keystrokes per entry. If your entry is long, then click “chat” to post it and start your next entry with the word “continued”. 3) Type “To All” if you have a general entry not directed to one person. 4) If you’d like to contact someone in the room, email or call us at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. or 714-768-1777. We’ll have them contact you to exchange information.

6:26 Pelagius: Alfon @ 6:25, that's mine and my h's special signoff to each other. He has started to use it again.

6:26 Pelagius: kmkrn1, hi!

6:27 Pelagius: bcoop, are you new? I’m not here regularly, so maybe you've been here before and I wasn't here.

6:27 Lia: Jim Seriously thinking about no sep agreement because all God has really revealed to me is NO divorce. I will talk to my lawyer to see if family court will do same with spousal & child support. But H won't feel pressure???? So how can we put financial pressure on H's if we stall divorce & make them obtain it, which in NYS my H won't be able to do because lack of grounds?

6:34 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lia: I’m glad you're working with your local lawyer to find the best solution. Yes your husband will probably feel pressure, but that is part of the result of his decisions.

6:27 steadfast: Pelagius: your situation seems very encouraging at this point too. Hang on to your hat but remember what Jim just said about the angel food cake and don't get discouraged --take one step at a time

6:27 TiredB2: Alfon: God bless you

6:27 bcoop: Pelagius, I was here once before.

6:28 Pelagius: My h wore his wedding ring all weekend. He'd been upset that he thought he lost it. I found it last week; it was like a sign. But I forgot until he started expressing concern about it Friday night. I remembered to give it to him, and he put it on immediately.

6:29 Pelagius: Steadfast @ 6:27, oh yes, thank you for the encouragement. I am not going to rush this. My h is VERY spontaneous....so he can be impulsive.

6:29 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:27, thanks.

6:29 TiredB2: kmkrn1, digimom, Cheyenne & bcoop : hello

To all: This is Lisa the Office Manager. I just want to remind you that if you have a private question you don’t wish to discuss here, please consider scheduling a 1-on-1 phone counseling session with Jim. Contact us at 714-768-1777 or This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. to set up a session. You can find information on phone counseling on our website: www.midlife.com. Remember, Jim always offers his live counseling in the chat room without cost. If you wish to donate to our ministry to support the Website/Chat Room upkeep, please do so at www.Midlife.com. Thank you.

6:29 Pelagius: bcoop @ 6:27, how are things for you? Cheyanne, hi!

6:29 Hannah2: Lia, in NYS you could get just a financial agreement between the two of you

6:30 kmkrn1: ALL - Hi everyone! I just finished mowing the front yard before it got dark! The mower wouldn't cooperate!

6:30 bcoop: Pelagius, not good.

6:30 Pelagius: kmkrn1 @ 6:30, it IS that time of year, isn't it? My back yard is piled high!

6:30 TiredB2: Pelagius: the ring ...... that’s great...... I polish my h a lot ....can't wait til he puts it back on

6:31 Lia: Jim, I know not to fear, but looking back abandonment & poor attachment runs so deep in H's life it seems he really has absolutely no attachment to me. He's always been able throw away things, friendships & now me. Doing everything with ow I asked to If I truly was stability H needed as young adult & he came to see me as convenience & mother only, how can I ever become his companion. Seems all he wants is a very compartmentalized life that he has Why does it seem they try with ow to no unrealistic expectations & all time, energy & affection in world. At least with my H, he was one who wanted separate life, & family: cake & eat it too. I tried so often to reach out & was pushed away. I wish I could just talk to him

6:39 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lia: I realize that you have experienced great pain and you feel like you are a disposable person. But you must give up all idea of trying to fix him. Your total concentration must now be on your stability and your walk with God.

6:31 steadfast: Jim: I guess there I am getting ahead of things and always have those questions-- always preparing for the future. I guess one group proposes that often the souse comes home suddenly but that must be those not in MLC dimension, right--it's a process

6:40 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: steadfast: Yes you are getting ahead of yourself, I have the same problem - I always want to know what the next step will be - God keeps saying "Just trust Me".

6:31 Pelagius: bcoop @ 6:30, I’m sorry. Is there some way I can pray for you? TiredB2 @ 6:30, yes, I know, I keep it in the jewelry box he gave me. He took with him, when he left, a silver wedding band we bought to wear to his work, so as not to nick his (cont)

6:32 bcoop: Dr. Conway, I wanted to ask how you dealt with the death of your first wife?

6:32 Pelagius: (cont) nice one. The silver one we have in a matching set. So I wear mine when he's gone.

6:33 Pelagius: Lia @ 6:31, we've all heard stories of wandering spouses who changed their minds and came home and left OW when the left-behind spouse said I’m done, I want it over, I want a divorce. But I knew that wouldn't work with my h; but I got angry (cont)

6:34 TiredB2: Pelagius: I wear mine with pride....... His gift they day we were married, and very sentimental to me.

6:34 Pelagius: (cont) every time he brought it up. So I told him I was sorry I got so angry, but he needed to know that I don't think I can continue to stand for our marriage and wait for him because divorce feels very final and I feel more betrayed by than the OW

6:34 Pelagius: It was my honest sentiment and feeling, and it touched him.

6:35 Pelagius: TiredB2 @ 6:34, yes, I know what you mean! I lost a diamond out of mine once, and h was busy with manual labor, so we bought sterling silver ones over the years to keep our beautiful rings nice.

6:37 bcoop: Dr Conway, how do you deal with God when He lets your spouse die and you still have children to raise?

6:44 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: bcoop: My wife Sally died from breast cancer and even though I did not have young children to raise, it was totally devastating to me, and I had to take on the responsibility of mother and father to my 3 adult daughters. I found it very helpful to attend grief groups. Most large churches and local counselors will be able to steer you to these resources. For the first year I attended 3 different grief groups each week, as well as seeing my local counselor and attending 2 different churches. I found it was helpful to have positive places to go when my life was falling apart.

6:37 Pelagius: Hi sweety30!

6:37 sweety30: Hi

6:37 TiredB2: Hi Sweety30

6:38 sweety30: Hello

6:38 DigiMom: bcoop, so sorry for your loss. I hope we can help you a bit here.

6:38 Lia: Jim 6:31 Do you think ALANON is good for me since H has abandonment issues, alcoholic step father & other men in his life as kid, etc. It seems I may have enabled my narcissistic immature behavior for many years. H would not even talk with counselor. I think he fears being real having someone see through his walls. It seems so hard to let go when H seems to try to continue controlling everything. I asked him to talk to me 5min. about paintball thing & he hung up. He won't act like adult even where kids are concerned

6:45 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lia: Yes I think you would be helped by attending a 12 step group such as ALANON.

6:39 TiredB2: Pelagius: my h brought up D once and I told him I would never agree to it and I did not get married to be done with it a few years later. I told h I married for the last time, and would never give up. it’s not an option and I will not talk about it

6:39 steadfast: TiredB and Pelagius: I am so happy for both of you. I think that my h was in MLC for 3 years before he left. Wish I had understood what was going on. I kept on trying to work with him but he was really changing--personality change. Now h gone for 2 years

6:39 sweety30: How do you know if it's really MLC or what?

6:40 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Sweety30, WELCOME!

6:40 Hannah2: welcome sweety30

6:40 TiredB2: steadfast: when it all hit us.... I was devastated....... I crashed hard, but then went looking for answers and how to help him and us....... found this site and that it is very important to find out the woman God wants me to be

6:41 sweety30: Hi

6:41 TiredB2: Jo2 hello

6:41 Pelagius: Lia @ 6:33, don't underestimate the value of stability. I believe my h comes home once a month for a weekend for a "sanity retreat." Where he lives with that woman is insane, and so is she. He said Friday night that he felt totally (cont)

6:41 Pelagius: (cont) disconnected from his moral and values and can't figure out why.

6:42 Hannah2: bcoop, did your husband die?

6:42 sweety30: Dr Jim Conway: My problem started in 2005 and my husband and I went to counseling and the counselor told me he was going through mlc but how do you really know if it's that

6:46 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: sweety30: Some of the books I've written will help you to be able to identify some of the signs of midlife crisis. There are also articles on this website (www.midlife.com) which will help to clarify this question for you. Also, if you would like to have a private phone counseling session, you can call the office to set that up.

6:42 kmkrn1: bcoop - My MIL lost her h when my h was 4 yrs old, had a 2 yr old brother, & was pregnant w/ his sister (she never met her dad). She is one of the strongest women of faith I know....this life is a journey & a test for the next one.

6:42 TiredB2: steadfast: it certainly not an easy journey, but this is a wonderful place to find answer and understand. I just trust God is working and try not to let it overwhelm me. It is not easy for me either. I have really rough days doubting

6:43 Pelagius: steadfast @ 6:39, mine was in mlc for at LEAST three years, if not more, before he left home. He's been going through a crazy-making period for the last nine months, and I know sometimes people burn through it in 9 months to a year.

6:43 steadfast: Jim: Few days ago I felt the Lord telling me ever so gently if you can believe while in a water aqua-aerobics class that I needed to let go of my h and son completely so that he could work on them. He reassured me that they couldn't be in better hands. I remember the Lord saying the similar to me when I felt so guilty about what I may have missed and did or didn't do in my mother's care before her death. He reminded me who had her and that she once again couldn't be in better hands than God's

6:47 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: steadfast: Wow, this is exciting to see how God has been steering your thinking - yaaa for you and yaaaa for God!!

6:43 bcoop: Hannah2, yes, 2yrs ago. From pan cancer.

6:43 Pelagius: (cont) not that I’m calculating. There is no formula. But I sure saw a lot more of my old h this weekend!

6:43 kmkrn1: bcoop - how old are your children?

6:44 Pelagius: steadfast @ 6:39, one month or 5 years, it sometimes feels an eternity, doesn't it? And I wonder what it feels like for them? I said to h this weekend that some people reconcile after 2 years or 4 years, or even 10 years. He said he didn't (cont)

6:44 Lia: Pelagius 6:41 Thank You I was 19 when married & he was 21. I worried about all divorces & abandonment in his family, but was so naive I thought we'd be ok. Sometimes having been oldest & having perfectionist dad & controlling H is hard

6:44 Pelagius: (cont) want this to go on that long!

6:44 Hannah2: bcoop I am sorry for your loss. It must be very hard on with children to raise.

6:45 Hannah2: goodnight all, take care, sleep tight. Talk to you later in the week, you are in my prayers.

6:45 bcoop: kmkrn1, my kids are 8,9,14&15 now.

6:46 Pelagius: bcoop, my h lost his father when h was 16. His mother was a steadfast and strong godly woman; she married a lovely godly man and they blended their two families, with a group of sweet children overcoming the death of a beloved parent. H's (cont)

6:46 Lia: Pelagius cont Feels like everyone tries to tell me who I am & how act, what to say. "Be the strong one, do right thing or else go sit in the corner & shut up! It seems it's my friends & God who see my gentle heart & allow me to be fallible. It gets old

6:46 Pelagius: (cont) H's mother and stepdad went on to have two more children together, so they are quite a family!

6:47 kmkrn1: bcoop - You must be exhausted most of the time! Do you have help with them? My MIL's parents moved in to help her raise my h & his siblings.

6:47 Pelagius: bcoop @ 6:43, I am so sorry!

6:47 Pelagius: steadfast @ 6:43, wow.

6:47 bcoop: Jim, I attended one Greif share group right after I lost my h. I've had four pastors give up on counseling me.

6:49 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: bcoop: I was one of the contributors in the grief share video series. I would encourage you to find more groups to attend because I found that each group helped me in a different way.

6:48 Lia: Pelagius cont being the Mature one who always says & does right thing. 43 years old & it still surprises me how cruel people are Being Naive isn't so great. My friend says being altruistic is good, but I need see how evil world really is sometimes

6:48 Pelagius: TiredB2, goodnight!

6:48 sweety30: Jim: I have read a lot on mlc and he defiantly has all the signs, do people ever get through MLC it's been 4 years and lately he's been acting like his old self but not all the way yet

6:51 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: sweety30: Generally this process is roughly 3 years or so. It sounds as if he is starting to come out of some of this traumatic transition. Now is the time to deepen your walk with God and make sure that you have eliminated any of the problems which might have contributed to any marriage problems which you might have had.

6:48 Pelagius: Goodnight Hannah2

6:49 TiredB2: ALL: I am really still here........ the room just doesn't reflect it though...

6:49 kmkrn1: bcoop - Then you've come to the right place here because our motto is "Never give up!"

6:49 bcoop: kmkrn1, no help, and I home school. I've adjusted to the workload some. I just don't know how to deal with God.

6:50 Pelagius: Oh bcoop @ 6:45, bless you. Oh Lia, listen to your heart. Yes, you have to be like the willow tree and bend in the whirlwind; otherwise you break. Isn't it great to embrace fallibility? As soon as we let ourselves off the perfection hook (cont)

6:50 Pelagius: (cont) life is so much easier. And we so much more compassionate with other peoples' failings.

6:51 Lia: Jim I asked late Wed but I'll ask again. What do you know about parental alienation syndrome & how can I prevent it with my son now that it happened to oldest dtr. Son is 15 & desperate to be with dad, but seems to even do things he doesn't want just

6:53 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lia: You might find some help in reading my book, "Adult Children of Legal or Emotional Divorce."

6:51 bcoop: Jim, so your advice is find more groups to attend?

6:55 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: bcoop: yes, get involved in more groups and see if you can find, in addition to a grief group, a good share and care group which will also pray for you during this process. That is also key.

6:51 Pelagius: kmkrn1 @ 6:47 and bcoop, my h has wonderful stories about how his dad's mother became a significant figure in his life, particularly after his father died...he was the only son of her only son.

6:51 kmkrn1: bcoop - God is in control (even when we or everything else is not)--you don't have to worry about "dealing" with Him. He's got that covered. There are MANY examples in the Bible of people whose lives were not good, but God used them for good.

6:51 Mrstootall: Hello everyone, sorry so late getting on just came from a bible study. Wanted to try and get a question into Jim.

6:52 TiredB2: bcoop: my heart goes out to you.... I lost my former h and we have a s together.... he was 17 months old. Now at 14 he is really struggling and MLC of my new h has made it harder for my s.

6:52 Pelagius: bcoop, two years is really a short amount of time and your grief must still be heavy, especially if you feel overwhelmed with others' needs. Can you take the same advice given to left-behind spouses and find ways to be kind to yourself (cont)

6:52 sweety30: Jim: he still really won't talk about things, should I not try to at this point, I don't want him to have any set backs on coming out of it.

6:57 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: sweety30: Remember that men don't talk about their problems, and they usually don't share their process of private thinking. In contrast, many women are verbal processors who do well talking issues through with friends. Men, on the other hand, are very tight lipped and just wrestle with problems silently until they are ready to announce a decision - don't push the issue.

6:52 Pelagius: (cont) and see to some of your own needs...a nice quiet cup of tea, a hot bath, a good nights' sleep?

6:53 Pelagius: Hi Mrstootall!

6:53 kmkrn1: bcoop - A very interesting and thought-provoking book I just read is called "The Shack" where tragedy meets eternity. It is fiction, but I think a lot of it made sense and helped me see God's plan in a new perspective.

6:53 steadfast: Jim: Yes that's a praise the Lord! re 6:47, 6:43 , 6:45

6:53 Lia: Jim cont to be with dad. He acts like & even says oh well, about what dad is doing. Don't want son to feel negative, but don't want him to enable & accept either I want son to grow up without same curse. Keep saying love dad but pray return to God/us

6:59 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lia: I’m glad that you want the best for your son. Help him to see that you are releasing your husband to God's care, so that your son doesn't feel as if you are a controlling person. Focus on your growth and don't put your son in the responsibility of trying to pull the 2 of you back together again.

6:53 Mrstootall: Jim: My h told me a couple months ago that if I could just wait for him to get rid of his headache(ow). He a week or so later told me that he told her it would not work between them. He has come around more, I see some changes, he talks in the future about us, but there is still hardly any touching, kissing or anything. What am I suppose to do from here? I did ask him over for supper, he an we had a good time, but I mentioned it again, he said maybe some time. I have been helping him a lot with a new business he is starting. Do I make moves on him sexually? What are my steps right now? Should I be making any kinds of moves on him?

7:00 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Mrstootall: Your situation sounds extremely positive. Remember to let him pursue you - that means you just flirt and let him know you are interested and available, like you did when you first met each other.

6:54 TiredB2: Mrstootall: that sounds like a praise.
6:54 Pelagius: Mrstootall! That's great news!

6:55 Pelagius: Mrstootall, I was just chatting earlier that my h seems to keep looking for ways to extricate himself!

6:55 TiredB2: Kmkrn1: your marriage is restored correct?

6:55 Pelagius: There's a theme tonight!

6:55 kmkrn1: TiredB - you bet--and better than the old marriage! :-)

6:56 Lia: Jim I just got that book & I do believe it will help. I wish I could get H to not fear help & seeing someone r/t old wounds & depression. He seems to have just run his whole life

6:56 steadfast: Pelagius and TiredB2 : thank you for your thoughts and sharing. I didn't mean to imply that it has been easier for either of you but just so happy that there seems to be some sunshine coming through the tunnel. And yes, whether it is 6 months or 1o years

6:56 Pelagius: bcoop, since you home school your children, is there a network where you combine efforts with other families to prepare field trips or group activities? Perhaps one day you can have your children go and steal a day or peace and quiet for yourself?

6:57 steadfast: Pelagius & TiredB2 ;it seems like an eternity while it is happening to us not to mention what it must be like for our spouses

6:57 bcoop: Pelagius&kmkrn1, I would love to find a new h and be a family again. But it just sounds like a fairytale. I took me till I was 30 to find the first h, and now I’m not alone.

6:57 Pelagius: bcoop, I find I can hear God, listen for him, when I am quiet and still and have withdrawn from the crazy-making work-a-day world. Some people like activity to help them sort things out, but I am a hermit and need to withdraw and meditate.

6:57 Lia: Jim I took the MLC quiz for H & checked off 22 of 26 questions. He may have checked fewer, but still it's serious. Besides old wounds, do you see personality issues often in men in MLC too?

7:01 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lia: Yes, midlife crisis tends to bring out all of the unresolved issues from previous life stages.

6:57 Mrstootall: Pelagius Yes there has been lots of PTL's. I can never say it enough.

6:58 Pelagius: Oh Steadfast @ 6:56, no, it's okay, I know that never would any of us, no matter what our situation, would ever think it is "easy" for any of us. But, I can also relate to those of you hanging in for a LONG time and not seeing movement, while (cont)

6:58 bcoop: Thank you, goodnight.

6:58 sweety30: Jim: Will he ever get back to the person I married or will he be this person he has changed into, I just want the loving person I used to have and all of this is so hard.

7:02 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: sweety30: Hopefully he will never return to the husband that you had before - he will be a new and improved version.

6:58 Mrstootall: Jim Why is it that if they don't talk about their problems my h says that the ow was like his soul mate cause they can talk about everything?

7:03 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Mrstootall: I don't know why men don't talk - but I do know that it is a commonly understood fact that men use about 10,000 words in a day, while women use about 50,000 a day.

6:59 Pelagius: (cont) while others see it in a shorter time frame. St. Augustine said that time was created for man, since God, being eternal, didn't need to measure it.

6:59 Lia: Pelagius I didn't ever really want to try to be perfect. Somehow it seems we seem to treat people a certain way according to our misconceptions right. I sometimes wonder if my H ever saw my true heart Looking back he always tried to in his words make me

6:59 kmkrn1: bcoop - The time you have with your children is precious (although exhausting, frustrating, etc.) I have an empty nest now and I yell at the dog because there is no one else to yell at....I'm adjusting. God's plan for you is in progress...

7:00 Pelagius: Oh bcoop @ 6:57, I understand. One of my fears about divorce a while back was never feeling like I could or would want to find another partner. I wouldn't want to, but even if I did, I had no confidence I would feel attractive to someone after being rejected.

7:01 Lia: Pelagius cont into the kind of woman I needed to be if I would let him laughed about trophy wife. Not funny. I’m not that, never was & trophies sit on shelf & collect dust I want to be the companion & the fun friend, confidant, not just house wife & mom!

7:01 TiredB2: steadfast: no worries, I did not take it that way...... each of our journeys are very difficult..... but It is wonderful to know that there is light at the end of the tunnel and that we WILL have a new wonderful marriage.

7:02 Mrstootall: Jim So I should never take the upper hand? Will he think I don't want him?

7:04 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Mrstootall: The upper hand is not good in the romance game - but drive him crazy with visual flirtation.

7:02 Lia: Jim thinking taking son to John Eldredge's Fathered by God tour Will ask H but prepared for his NO I want take son no matter what

7:05 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lia: it's a great idea for your son to be involved with John Eldridge's program - but you should not orchestrate the process. You can suggest, but don't push.

7:02 TiredB2: Jim: this is a wonderful thing you did here...... I know I appreciate your sharing and helping each of us to find our way.....thank you so much

7:03 Lia: &:02 Amen God makes all of us into new creations!

7:07 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: All - I have to run because Jan and I are teaching a marriage class tonight. Sorry to have to run out on you. Please come back next Monday to ask more questions. Also, join our wonderful facilitators on Wed., Fri., Sat. and Sun. They're are great!

7:03 sweety30: Jim: He's always saying he's trying to get back to who he used to be is that a normal thing for someone to say going through MLC? I don't understand it when he say it, it doesn't make sense to me.

7:09 LisaK [Administrator]: sweety30: This is Lisa, Jim's assistant. I believe Jim would tell you that "yes - this is normal". They tend to want to go back to the high school years to relive those times.

7:04 Pelagius: Lia @ 6:59, I know what you mean. My h has become more assertive through this process, which he needed to do, and I in turn have become less fussy about his needs, since I was always trying to figure them out (he wouldn't talk). And so yes, (cont)

7:04 kmkrn1: Good night all! Thanks for sharing this evening and remember to pray for everyone--especially the families of Columbine on the 10th anniversary.

7:04 Pelagius: (cont) I think we adapt to the people we're with, or try to, often in a vacuum of understanding what they're really feeling...especially when they're in MLC!

7:04 TiredB2: good night everyone have a great week

7:04 Lia: Jim & All 7:03 WOW I read 12,000& 25,000 That's the problem with men working with women now. They're done talking @ end of day I think it's harder for men than ever now days because work & other pressure

7:05 Mrstootall: Jim and everyone good night and thank you for letting me come in late.

7:05 Jo2: Mrstootall - Jim saying that flirting is good says you are telling him he is attractive and he is important to you. Be patient. Let your husband catch up.... he still needs to completely let go of ow.

7:06 Mrstootall: Jo2 Thanks, I need lots of guidance I don't want to mess this up.

7:06 Lia: Jim so do you think it's ok to expect H to take kids to counselors on Wed which is his eve? I take them everywhere else. Or am I asking too much?

7:07 steadfast: Jim: I don't know how to flirt. I don't think I ever did when I was dating my h I’m lost and want to be genuine in actions toward him

7:11 LisaK [Administrator]: steadfast: hmmmm, interesting question. There must be some books out there that might help. Talk to some trusted women friends too. There's a book called, "Winning Your Husband Back Before It's Too Late" by Gary Smalley. That may be of help to you.

7:07 Jo2: Mrstootall - Pray for patience.

7:07 Pelagius: sweety30 @ 7:03, that was a scary thing about m h's MLC. He told me in June that he could be a mean angry person and when this was over I might not like who he turned out to be. I said, won't you let me see it through with you and let me (cont)

7:07 Pelagius: (cont) have the chance to decide to stick around?

7:07 Lia: Jim 7:05 The seminar is only 90 min. I want to do all I can without his dad here I can teach my little girl to be a Godly woman, but can't teach son by self to be Godly man

7:08 steadfast: Would anyone else care to answer me from 7:07?

7:08 Pelagius: Good night all! Thanks Jim and Lisa and all!

7:08 Mrstootall: Jo2 Thanks

7:08 Mrstootall: All Good night!!

7:09 Pelagius: I love the advice about flirting. I wasn't sure that was the right thing to do, but I have done it a few times. steadfast @ 7:07, I'll pray that God shows you.

7:09 Lia: LisaK Did you or anyone else experience a "suddenly" return or does it always seem a long process? I'd be happy for civil exchange & not being seen as satan & threatened about anything I say or do on my own

7:10 steadfast: Pelagius : you do that please. I really need some help in that area re flirting-- big time

7:11 Lia: Lisa & Sweety30 My H has gone back to listening to old music & seen washed up old bands, going to hippy concerts The ow is like a hippy/gypsy too!

7:11 Jo2: steadfast - Listen to him and look for clues. Be ready to let him know he was just funny or kind or he smells good or looks good or is attractive to you. Keep it short but pertinent to what he just said or did.

7:11 steadfast: Thanks Jo2 and Pelagius

7:12 Pelagius: Steadfast, you got it! Keep your eyes open; when the student is ready the teacher will come. I honestly believe God has sent things to me at certain times to prepare me for the next steps, when I stopped trying to "fix" h with information and (cont

7:12 steadfast: Lia: Oh my h is right into this with the high school music and the old rock groups and so is the ow

7:12 Jo2: Lia - Your h seems to be trying to capture lost youth. You think????

7:12 Pelagius: (cont) focused on working on MY shortcomings, getting right with God, and just enjoying the time and opportunities I had with my h.

7:12 Lia: Pelagius, steadfast & TiredB I’m so glad you all seem to be seeing the other side of the mountain. I can't wait. It's so hard because I've finally realized I've taken last place in H's life almost since start Maybe I should have been more bold @ start

7:13 LisaK [Administrator]: ok everyone. I do have to close up. I'll give you until 7:17 to say your good byes.

7:13 Pelagius: steadfast, that's true. My h loves to now I find him attractive; his self-esteem is low. When he came in the house once and it was sparkling, he said about himself, I must have been a dirt-bag. I said nope, we were just too busy to clean.

7:13 LisaK [Administrator]: For a list of media recommendations by Jim Conway, Lisa Kahan, and our Chat Room Facilitators, please visit Amazon via our special link: http://astore.amazon.com/midlife-20. Amazon sends a donation to the non-profit ministry of Midlife Dimensions anytime an order is placed via our link. We hope you enjoy the various lists of recommendations and thank you for supporting Midlife Dimensions through Amazon.

7:13 Lia: Jo2 Yes! He's always been able to physically run circles around everyone though

In the book, "The Excellent Wife" by Martha Peace, she writes about 4 Biblical Principles Concerning A Wife's Submission and Joy. These 4 principles are exactly why our Facilitators our so successful and experience such peace and joy in their lives. I’m going to list out the 4 principles for you, but you'll need to get the book to read more about the principles. Principle #1 Joy Results from trusting and obeying God's Word. Principle #2 Joy results from knowing that God is working to accomplish His purpose even in difficult circumstances. Principle #3 Joy results from following the example of the Lord Jesus in difficult times. Principle #4 Joy results from a Spirit-filled life.

7:14 Pelagius: Anything you can say or do that affirms him or shows him you feel positively about him will mean something. Lia and Jo@ @ 7:12, I agree. My h certainly did that, and OW and he would spend weekends in a tent at the lake, drinking, drugging.

In all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us"
(Romans 8:37).

7:14 Pelagius: It's not so fun now.

7:14 steadfast: Lia: I’m not sure that I am seeing the other side of the mountain yet. I asked about flirting but h only corresponds by email and there is no sign of a turn in the corner yet. He has big plans to move away with ow in a year

7:15 Jo2: Good night all. I find that praying for patience has kept me humble. I always thought I was patient, so I’m giving God a chance to improve me..... his timing!!

Lord, thank You for caring about every single detail of our lives and for taking care of them all. Help us to trust You more and turn to You more quickly for help in every situation. In Jesus' Name, Amen

7:16 Lia: All I don't even know if my H would respond to flirting He said recently he didn't hate me until after he left. I miss him anyways & my dtr! I wish he could understand I see the hurt little boy in him & how amazing he really is was, can & will be in God's eye's & mine. I love him unconditionally, but don't think he can see that

7:16 Pelagius: Thank you Lisa and all. DigiMom! take care! steadfast, like you I’m not counting on seeing the other side of the mountain yet. But I feel I've learned more about the climb and am leveling out.

7:17 LisaK [Administrator]: Goodnight everyone. Thank you for joining us tonight. Remember to pray for you Chat Room family every time you look at a clock and see the time is doubled.....such as: 4:44, 2:22, 1:11, 3:33. Thanks! Love you all.

7:17 steadfast: Thank you all and have a blessed week and thanks Lisa for the thoughts on true joy

7:17 Lia: steadfast I pray God will release him from satan's trap before that year

7:17 Pelagius: Lia @ 7:16, my h told me this weekend that I was always proud of him and appreciated and respected him, but when he hit MLC, he no longer "felt" good about that. He wants that feeling back, so he is working through his MLC, he says.

7:17 Pelagius: Thanks Lisa, for the four principles!

7:17 steadfast: Thanks Lia and I pray the same for your spouse

7:17 Lia: Pelagius how long this been?

7:18 Lia: All God's blessing & love to you!

7:11 LisaK [Administrator]:
For a list of media recommendations by Jim Conway, Midlife Dimensions, Lisa Kahan, and our Chat Room Facilitators, please visit Amazon via our special link: http://astore.amazon.com/midlife-20. Amazon sends a donation to the non-profit ministry of Midlife Dimensions anytime an order is placed via our link. We hope you enjoy the various lists of recommendations and thank you for supporting Midlife Dimensions through Amazon.

April 6, 2009 / with JIM CONWAY

6:20 Lia: Jim  616 H left 1yr ago immediately with ow then had all time in world & allows her to cling on him & use him she has history this she was with someone else too. He's been verbally abusive living with ow process of legal sep locks changed.    He refused any help, wouldn't promise not to get involved with another & only c/o housework & gives me long list awful traits in me that nobody else sees in me lots of projecting, displaced anger from childhood & justifying wish I could meet  

6:28 Dr. Jim Conway  [Administrator]:    Lia, let me say kindly that it's a waste of time to figure out the failings of the other woman. It's better to ask what you can to meet your husband's needs - if and when he gives you that opportunity. I probably have asked you this before, but How you’re doing in these 3 areas? Midlife men complain that their wives:    1) are naggy, controlling, and often boss them around like children (sometimes men do act like children):    2) are overweight, out of shape, and don’t care about physical appearance. (Men are very visual, & when their wife looks good to them, that translates that she is interested in sex. A high priority in a man’s life is regular, exciting sex for which he doesn’t have to beg:    and 3) have not had a new thought since they got married. (They complain that their wives are not growing intellectually or in their careers, which makes them very dependent and clingy -- which is often negative to a midlife man.)

Mon. 4-6-09 / 6-7 pm PST / Chat with Dr. Jim Conway

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