Midlife Dimensions


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July 13, 2009 / with Jim Conway

6:22 Ro828: Jim: Does divorce hurt the midlifer emotionally like it does to the spouse who was left behind? Or, are they so in their own world it doesn't affect them?

6:25 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Ro828: Generally, the person who is trying to get out of the marriage feels a sense of relief, not pain. The person who wants to save the marriage is the one who feels the pain. Later, after the extramarital relationship starts to go bad, then the person who wanted out starts to feel the pain.

6:23 Yoli: Jim: Hi, how are you? I have question but not about retreat. My husband's family is having reunion this weekend. My h is taking girlfriend. Daughters are really upset. Should I say anything to him? He's ultimately going to do whatever he wants.

6:27 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Yoli: This is a really sticky situation. If you guys are officially divorced, then even though this is painful, he will see it as ok. If you guys are just separated, he may be taking her along as a way to rub salt in your and your daughter's wounds. So, which is your situation?

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June 29, 2009 / With Jim Conway

5:58 LisaK [Administrator]: Good Evening. Welcome to Monday Night Chat with Jim. I’m Lisa, the Office Manager for Midlife Dimensions. I’m blessed to serve the Lord through our Chat Room Ministry which has helped so many people through their spouse’s midlife journey. Jim Conway will be online with us shortly and as he reads your questions, he’ll dictate his answers for me to type and post for you to see. He will answer all questions that come in before the end of the hour.

5:59 LisaK [Administrator]: "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight" (Proverbs 3:5-6).

6:00 LisaK [Administrator]: We welcome You, our Heavenly Father, as You join us here in our Chat Room. We ask that You bless everyone here today with comfort in knowing that You're in control. Thank You for being our amazing God. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.

6:01 Swanlake: Hello everyone, how are you tonight?

6:01 faithfull: I am not doing to good. I feel so full of anger

6:02 faithfull: I want to ask Jim. My H told me he loved the OW 20 years. I stop all contact since Thurs. My S26 will be taking and picking up the kids for me. No more texting. Did I do the right thing.

6:03 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]:Hello everyone. I’m really glad to be here today. It’s a privilege for me to serve the Lord by helping all of you in the Chat Room. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate our Chat Room Facilitators. It is truly a labor of love for them to serve our Chat Room Ministry and they deserve a standing ovation for all they do. I’m thankful that you’re here supporting each other and for your commitment to work on your marriage. I know you’re hurting inside, and I want to encourage you not to let that pain become hurtful to your family or anyone in the chat room. Although I want you to feel safe and openly share your pain so we can help you, I ask that you’re careful not to criticize anyone or add difficulties to their situation. God’s Word tells us that we are to encourage and build up one another, not tear each other down, let’s live that out today by our actions in this room. Destructive words don’t belong here or in emails to each other. Let’s get going with your questions now.

6:04 Pelagius: Hi all!

6:04 Pelagius: faithfull, you haven't had a good weekend either, huh?

6:05 TiredB2: hi Pelagius, swan faithful, Rollercoasterider

6:05 faithfull: Pelagius no it has been a constant struggle.

6:05 Pelagius: I have a praise, I guess, of sorts. My h came by this morning. He finally got around to saying we should talk about the divorce. But he admitted the papers were incomplete and possibly incorrect in places. I asked him if he really wanted (cont)

6:05 Rollercoasterider: Faithful: Could you clarify? Did you mean he said that he has loved the FOR 20 years, or is she 20 years old?

6:06 TiredB2: Faithfull: I watch JCTV yesterday and it was interesting to me...... can I tell you about it?

6:06 faithfull: She is a 20 year old.

6:06 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: All, it's cold and rainy here in Michigan. Just a gloomy day.

6:06 faithfull: yes TiredB2

6:06 Pelagius: (cont) to go forward, and he said, after a pause, yes. He said I want my freedom. But I asked if we could sit on it a while, since there's no time limit. He said okay. He said he'd mail me insurance paperwork I need for the divorce papers, I have a feeling he won't.

6:07 Rollercoasterider: Pelagius: Excellent. Some stop at this point and do not continue later...others continue later, but this gives you time. Relax and work on your Self

6:07 Swanlake: faithful - how does your son feel about being in a position of playing middle man and mediator between you and your husband. Even at 26, that has to be a backward place for a son to be. I know my daughter got angry with her dad when he attempted to

6:07 Pelagius: Hi Jim! We finally had rain here Sunday night to cool off the temperatures that were 10 degrees above average and above 100.

6:10 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Pelagius: Yes, it's 59 degrees here and still raining.

6:07 TiredB2: Faithful.... Joel talked about putting action in our faith.... something I personally haven’t much.... he used a story of man who wanted to stop smoking.... so he made a decision to remove 3 cigarettes a day, and he was smoking 3 packs a day.

6:07 Swanlake: faithful - continued - use to as a messenger between us.

6:08 Pelagius: RCR @ 6:07, thanks! He said I looked nice. After he left, and I thought we were through talking, he texted me and thanked me for commenting on his hair.

6:08 Rollercoasterider: Faithful: Okay, so he is then professing his love for her. Well, that's typical. It's infatuation, it's created by very powerful and very real hormones and it is addicting.

6:08 faithfull: Swanlake he was ok with it. I asked him first. He feels it’s best for me not to talk to H.

6:09 Pelagius: Faithfull, I think it IS okay to take a break from talking to h while you're angry, in fact, it is probably best. I asked my h to go ahead and take the apartment he was looking at after he confessed to OW. I didn't want anger to destroy us.

6:09 faithfull: Rollercoaster I know is infatuation but it still hurts and makes me angry that he does not see the reality of it all.

6:09 TiredB2: cont: eventually by removing more and more he quit.... He still prayed for Gods guidance, but demonstrated to God his commitment. I kinda did the same thing, and possibly the decision you made is the same. putting action in your faith.

6:09 Rollercoasterider: Faithful: Stopping contact has some benefits. Let him initiate contact with you. He may choose to contact you regularly, or rarely, but let him set the interactions

6:09 Pelagius: faithfull @ 6:09, completely normal reaction. Of course you are angry and hurt. You're thinking, perhaps, how dumb, and how can I compete with THAT? But you don't have to compete...
6:10 TiredB2: faithful: I decided not to be concerned with what’s going on on the other side of the mountain but to Trust God that he is doing the work He already promised me He was doing......I found such a peace today......I hope you did too

6:10 Pelagius: Faithfull, I agree with RCR. My h couldn't stay out of contact with me. It took me a while to learn not to pursue him.

6:10 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:10, sounds NICE! I could do with 59 degrees! Still, it is pleasant here now.

6:10 faithfull: Pelagius I do not plan on competing. I told him he was worth fighting for but I was going to do it quietly. By praying for him and giving him space.

6:10 Pelagius: faithfull @ 6:10, very good!

6:11 Pelagius: faithfull @ 6:10, on occasion I would have the opportunity to say to him that while I love him, I didn't like what he was doing, and he said, I know. This morning he said to me, none of this is your fault, you are a good woman.

6:11 Rollercoasterider: Faithful: I know...an intellectual understanding does not erase our emotional reaction. But even so, it is not possible for him to see the reality while it is obscured by the hormones. What have you done in the past that has helped alleviate anger?

6:12 TiredB2: faithful: my hubby tells me he will call, so I just let him do the calling...... and work on taking him at his word.... I struggle with disbelief and distrust..... but I am letting go and letting God handle it for me. Too philosophical

6:12 Pelagius: faithfull @ 6:10, I found that the things I needed to say to him were much better delivered when I was rational and calm and not angry.

6:12 faithfull: RC I cry and pray

6:13 Pelagius: Faithfull @ 6:10, RCR is giving you good advice; I went through a period where I REALLY had to deal with a lot of anger. It sets you free in a way, but if it is directed inappropriately, it can cause harm to yourself and your relationships.

6:13 faithfull: Tired h will not call unless I call. He will call my s before he calls me.

6:13 Ro828: All: Is it best to have your H contacted you if there is no contact and just pray one day he does contact yu?

6:13 faithfull: Pelagius that is the reason I went with no contact because is just too much for me at this point.

6:14 Pelagius: faithfull @ 6:12, I cried and prayed last night, telling God I wanted my h back and did not want divorce. And today he shows up, lukewarm about the divorce. God HEARS you.

6:14 TiredB2: faithful: hmmmm...... that’s tough huh? I do not handle it well when my h doesn’t call... makes me nuts

6:14 Pelagius: faithfull @ 6:13, I think we all know instinctively to step away when these things happen.

6:14 Rollercoasterider: Faithful: And does crying help you--for me it feels good when I cry. But many confuse crying with sobbing--the early phase of crying where it is still debilitating

6:14 TiredB2: faithful@ 613.....is he ok with you calling

6:15 Pelagius: TIredB2 @ 6:14, me too. He doesn't call, but he texts. For two or three weeks in a row, he'll get on a routine. He'll text on Tuesdays. For the last month it has been Fridays, until this past Friday. Just when I get the routine down, he changes!

6:15 faithfull: tired yes he says I can call him or text him unless we do not talk about issues

6:15 Rollercoasterider: Ro828: I wouldn't say anything is necessarily better than another in general. Each situation is different. In the early phases, I would recommend stepping back and letting the MLCer initiate contact--unless it is an emergency

6:16 Pelagius: faithfull @ 6:15, this is going to sound weird, but they don't want to talk about the r. If you can avoid that you can win his "trust" and he might call or text. I know that sounds absurd about "trust" like that, but if they trust there are (cont)

6:16 faithfull: RC I cry and sob until I feel like my heart is broken and at times I cry until I hear God speaking to me.

6:16 Pelagius: (cont) heavy relationship conversations, they are less skittish, I think.

6:16 TiredB2: faithful..@ 615... that’s good though....... it’s hard to find things to talk about like work and the weather and stuff.... I used to asked questions about him.... his childhood.... work is that possible

6:17 Pelagius: faithfull @ 6:16, he does speak. And while the sobbing can be debilitating at first, it gets everything out.

6:17 Rollercoasterider: Faithful: I felt like I was in a constant state of prayer. I'd chat with God out loud while driving--I wonder what people looking at me from the other lanes thought!

The Retreat is coming! The Retreat is coming! The Retreat is coming! The Retreat is coming! WE HOPE YOU'RE COMING TOO!!! It's going to be great! The theme is "Live Your Life Forward" and it's going to be a great lesson for all!. October 9-11, 2009, in South Bend, IN. There's no fee to attend the Annual Retreat, just pay for your own transportation, lodging, and food. Jim and Jan Conway will be teaching us how to "Live Our Lives Forward"! Contact Lisa Kahan for more details.

6:17 Pelagius: Ro828, I agree with Rollercoaster. And like RCR @ 6:17, I talked out loud too, in the grocery store (but made sure no one was listening or looking!).

6:17 Ro828: RCR: I’m beyond early stages. I’m talking over 2 years.

6:18 TiredB2: faithful: I read an article months back... that stated we don’t have to talk about our relationship because we are in it.......

6:18 TiredB2: faithful... does any of this help?

6:18 faithfull: Tire yes it is helping just to have someone that understands me.

6:19 Pelagius: After my h left today, he kept texting. He's been having these days where he just texts and texts...since he filed for the divorce. When he thanked for the compliment about his hair, I flirted with him. I said, yes, you still make my knees weak!:)

6:19 faithfull: I am setting my mind that is going to be a long process but at times is just seem like I am not going to make it.

6:19 Pelagius: faithfull @ 6:19, when did you get the speech, the I love you but...

6:20 faithfull: April 14

6:20 Rollercoasterider: Ro828: I know, but your questions was general. Specifically, it depends on what your MLCer is doing. The standard recommendation I'd give is let him initiate contact. But that can change as his behavior changes...still in general, let him initiate

6:20 Pelagius: Jim, I think my h is tiring of OW. He told me I could check his e-mail and he is back to surfing dating sites again. I remember you said once, based on something I shared, that she is probably not meeting his needs. And he is having trouble finding a job. He had to go to a week-long counseling session after his DUI arrest. He told me he was angry for a lot of it. But he had a breakdown about 10 days ago, texting me how he can't let go and he has hurt so many....And now he's lukewarm on the divorce, had invited me to lunch one Friday and talked about moving to his home state. I am SO NOT getting excited about him coming home...I know he has work to do yet, and may not even come home. But at least he is dealing with his issues. He got something in the mail from Radio Bible Class. Praise the Lord!

6:31 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Pelagius, All of this seems to be very promising. I’m proud of you for remembering that he has some issues to work on. So whenever you talk, give him lots of affirmation for anything that he is working on.

6:21 TiredB2: Jim: gotta a question....... when do they let the kids back in?

6:26 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: TiredB2: Do you mean, when do we let the kids know what's happening - or when are the kids included as the marriage is reconstructed - or something else.

6:21 Swanlake: Jim - talked to my daughter over the weekend, she was a little upset with her dad because he isn't taking care of himself and he has the diabetes, high blood pressure, etc. She is worried, but since he won't listen to anyone she is getting angry. I tried to explain he is depressed, which she agrees with, but just cannot understand why he will not get help when he himself says he is so depressed he can't find any hope in life at all anymore. She also said that he seems to be getting stuck in the past, talking about when we were a family, they were younger, etc. He and the other woman live in separate rooms of their house, the only time they speak is to fight, I just do not understand how he stays when he is so miserable. But, is there something I could say or study to help my daughter in dealing with her worry/angry with her dad?

6:29 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Swanlake, I think your daughter's anger is justified because your ex-husband who seems to be depressed is doing nothing to protect his health. Your daughter is justifiably angry - but unfortunately she can't force him to do anything. The easiest road for your daughter is to give her dad lots of affirmation and to express how much she needs him in her life.

6:22 Rollercoasterider: Faithful: And yet you are going to make it. But yes, it will likely be long. It will be hard and eventually you will recognize that it is, for you, a beautiful and life changing journey. But that realization is far into the future. For now [cont'd]

6:22 Pelagius: TiredB, are you there! Did you really leave?

6:22 Ro828: RCR: Not sure what my MLCer is doing. I just live my life and pray that one day he contacts me.

6:22 Pelagius: Ro828 @ 6:22 ((((((hugs))))). I know that sometimes people who don't have contact envy those who do, but sometimes the contact is painful; it gets our hopes up.

6:23 Rollercoasterider: Faithful: and beyond now, we are here for you. What else can you do not only to alleviate anger, but facilitate peace? Prayer is great. Are you meditating--consider prayer as speaking to God and meditation as listening to God.

6:23 Rollercoasterider: All: Making needs me to make her dinner...back in a few

6:24 Pelagius: Faithfull @ 6:20, yup, I got the speech June 16 and the confession of OW in mid-July; he had moved out July 24.

6:24 faithfull: RC today was the first day that I felt a lot of anger. I talk to God almost all day. I tell myself I am going to be fine and are better off without h for now and so forth.

6:24 TiredB2: IMMMMMMMMMMMMMM back

6:24 Pelagius: faithfull @ 6:24, MLC is one thing, the infidelity is something else all together. We hope against hope it isn't true.

6:25 Pelagius: TIREDB2 !

6:26 Ro828: Pelagius: 6:22. It makes me sad only because I think he no longer thinks about me and has gotten used to his new life. That he just moved forward so easily hurts.

6:26 faithfull: Pelagius the thing is the OW does not make any sense. what a 27 year difference and not even in the states.

6:26 TiredB2: Pelagius @622 I am here again

6:26 Pelagius: faithfull @ 6:262, it is fantasy.

6:27 faithfull: Pelagius I know that and tell myself I have to just wait it out and let God work in h.

6:27 Pelagius: Swan, my sitch is a little like yours. H has said things about OW that leads me to believe he's not happy, and in his e-mail are confirmations of registration at dating sites.

6:27 Pelagius: He looked better today, not so, well, unkempt and disheveled.

6:28 TiredB2: Jim: my s hasn’t been welcome in our home since we moved out...... I go home, but h is not to up to s coming with me...always says will see when are the kids included in the reconstruction?

6:33 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: TiredB2: These are 2 different problems -- your husband's connection with you and your husband's connection with your son. Work on the 1st issue 1st. Let the 2nd issue resolve itself.

6:29 Pelagius: I have a colleague whose husband divorced her ( I didn't know this until a few weeks ago); I knew he was being distant and strange a while back. But they have been dating now for 2 1/2 years, she says. She just kept her cool....

6:29 cheyanne: swan- just a comment on your question to Jim..interesting about your situation....i heard a pastor talking today telling people if you are thinking of cheating adultery...he said he has NEVER had one person tell him afterwards...I am glad all devastated

6:29 Swanlake: Pelagius - my husband is married to the other woman and within a month, they have not been getting along very well, I just do not understand why a man who was so strong and hated strife has now been living in complete strife for 3 years.

6:29 Pelagius: Swan @ 6:29, wow.

6:30 Pelagius: Swan, do you think his self-esteem is so low he thinks he deserves it?

6:31 Pelagius: Jim, I told my h today I still love him, and want him back. Before that, we hugged each other and hugged me a long time. As he left, I told him the door was always open and reminded him that I didn't want the divorce. Sometimes I think he is checking to see if he CAN come home. After h left, he texted me and asked me for the doctor's number. He wants me to think he is going back on the anti-depressants. I sent it to him. But after the meltdown last Friday, I didn't pursue him; I gave him his space.

6:35 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Pelagius: It is very normal for a man to test to see if he might be welcome. Men are very much afraid of being rejected -- especially when they are feeling crummy about past mistakes. Just take it slow.

6:32 Rollercoasterider: Faithful: You know, anger is not bad. It is an emotion, it is natural and you should feel it--so you can release it. I say this because many fear it and even though acknowledging anger, they feel you should avoid it. But to do that merely bottles it

6:32 Swanlake: Pelagius - oh yes, he was a man of extremely high honor and integrity, a Marine Corps officer and now he is living in sin, lying to everyone he knows including himself, he was a protector of our country for 24 years and now he is leaving a trail of

6:32 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:31, thanks!

6:33 TiredB2: Jim: did I fail the test..... when I was accused of bugging the ow.... I just fell apart... sobbed in front of him...... had to leave the house......just be by myself. we did talk later that night but it’s been strange since then... kinda like rebuilding so by resolving us..... it brings the family back together....

6:37 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: TiredB2: You didn't really fail the test, but I think that you have learned to stay out of the ow situation. Yes, resolving the 2 of you will feed towards bringing the family back together.

6:33 Pelagius: While he was here today, he went into the bathroom. I went into the bedroom and made the bed and prayed, Lord, help me, keep me calm and give me the right words.

6:33 faithfull: Jim do you think I did the right thing by telling h of no contact and should I wait for him to contact me.

6:39 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: faithfull: Sometimes making a definite statement like you won't contact him, and you'll wait for him to contact me, comes across as a manipulation. I would suggest letting the whole thing cool for awhile, and then looking for some legitimate fun family thing to contact him about.

6:33 Pelagius: I KNOW he's lukewarm about the divorce...yay!

6:33 Swanlake: Pelagius - continued - hurt people, me, our children, his friends, the other woman's children, her husband, etc. behind him. Not very honorable and I know it has to be affecting him, but rather than leave, he stays and wallowing in the mud?

6:34 Pelagius: Swan @6:33, my h is former military, and his appearance was always important to him. He completely let that go with OW, after the initial sprucing up, teeth whitening, new clothes, while he was wooing her. It is so weird.

6:35 Pelagius: Hey soulcoach, glad you came back.

6:35 faithfull: Pelagius and Swan my h is also prior military and has work so hard to have what we have. Now he has nothing.

6:35 soulcoach: Thanks Pelagius

6:35 Hannah2: Pelagius my h retired military too. That was part of what he said to me, - first he did what his parents told him to do, then his school teachers and grandparents, then one year of college then the military told him what to do and know I was telling

6:36 Hannah2: him what to do (not really) and when does he get to do what he wants to do

6:36 Swanlake: Jim - thanks, I will talk to her about that and let her know that it is his pain that is causing him to tell her that she, all of us would be better of without him. I think rather than her just saying she needs him, to give more affirming reasons.

6:36 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Soulcoach, WELCOME! I’m Jim Conway, President of Midlife Dimensions. This room is here to encourage you and answer questions you have about your current situation. Important: Do NOT share personal information such as an email or home address, phone #, or any names. Here’s how to join in: 1) Type the name of the person you want to speak to followed by your entry. 2) You’re limited to 250 keystrokes per entry. If your entry is long, then click “chat” to post it and start your next entry with the word “continued”. 3) Type “To All” if you have a general entry not directed to one person. 4) If you’d like to contact someone in the room, email or call us at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. or 714-768-1777. We’ll have them contact you to exchange information.

6:36 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:35, thank you! I will. I just keep affirming him. He is trying to start a business and I told him he has great success with it. Jim, I think if he came back I could forget the whole thing and we could start over, I really do.

6:41 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Pelagius: I’m glad you're open to starting over, but both of you would need to do some growing.

6:36 TiredB2: Jim: when they complain about their appearance, how the messed up let things get out of wack...... that’s good huh? Jim@ 637 I do stay out of the OW situation..... I brought it in once and it bit me......He seems to always bring it up and ask about accusations he is being told by ow.....I have resolved the whole time to be naive and not concern myself with it

6:43 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: TiredB2: Remember that your hopes for reconnecting with your husband should not be built on how bad the other woman is - keep trying to understand what are his basic needs and keep on eliminating any problems that bothered him in the 1st place.

To all: This is Lisa the Office Manager. I just want to remind you that if you have a private question you don’t wish to discuss here, please consider scheduling a 1-on-1 phone counseling session with Jim. Contact us at 714-768-1777 or This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. to set up a session. You can find information on phone counseling on our website: www.midlife.com. Remember, Jim always offers his live counseling in the chat room without cost. If you wish to donate to our ministry to support the Website/Chat Room upkeep, please do so at www.Midlife.com. Thank you.

6:37 Pelagius: Hannah2 @ 6:35, I think that's possible with h. He married at 18, then got drafted.

6:38 TiredB2: Pelagius' my said he didn’t need affirmations, and when I compliment he fluffs it off, says it’s not true

6:39 Rollercoasterider: Tired @ 6:38: This is normal, but it doesn't mean you should stop. But no empty compliments or no over complimenting

6:40 Brin2: Hi everyone.

6:40 Pelagius: TiredB2, once early in this when my h came over, he said our house was nice and clean and he must have been a dirt bag when he was here. I said no you weren't. And then I asked if he wanted a hug and he said you want to hug this old dirt bag? (cont)

6:40 Swanlake: Pelagius and faithful - in my opinion military, especially career military are prime for MLC, so many of them joined the military to get away from their home life and then they have 20 to 30 years of total structure, but when they retire and that is

6:41 TiredB2: Rollercoasterider.......I just compliment what I feel in my heart!

6:41 Pelagius: (cont) he WAS grimy, had come from work. But I said, of course! Jim said that when he offers to hug me, I should say something like, best offer I had all day. They hear you even if they act like they don't. Jim taught me how to keep it light...

6:41 cheyanne: Jim- If I am in a situation with a group of parents at a sporting event for my son...and h is there in the group and I get called over by another parent....should I say anything to h or not? Yesterday it happened I didn’t say anything but it was odd

6:44 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: cheyanne: It is absolutely normal to say "hi" to your husband as you walk by.

6:41 faithfull: Thanks Jim I will do that.

6:41 Swanlake: Pelagius and faithful - continued - gone, they don't know what to do with themselves. My husband went from being a big fish in a little pond in the military, to being a little fish in a really big pond in a civilian job, it was a heck of change for

6:42 TiredB2: Pelagius" teach me I don’t always do it right ......seems like I put to much mush in it

6:43 Swanlake: Pelagius and faithful - continued - him, and to lose both of his parents within four months of retiring, while trying to prove himself in his new job, sad to say, my big strong Marine became a trembling frightened little boy and started to run

6:43 Pelagius: Swan @ 6:40, I so agree. My h's father died when h was 16, his mother remarried, they had a blended family...real chaos for several years...

6:44 faithfull: swanlake the thing is my h does not have any family around here. Just a brother but hey are not close. All the family he has is us.

6:44 TiredB2: Jim@ 643 I think he tries to save us.... and make our world incredible......

6:46 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: TiredB2: Sometimes guys will try to do good things to make up for some of the bad that they have done -- just take it in stride.

6:44 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Does anyone have questions for Lisa about the retreat?

6:44 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:41, thanks. When my h melted down about all the hurt he had caused, he said I was the only one he could talk to. My prayer right now is for God to make me the spouse my h needs me to be, whoever he is should he come back.

6:47 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Pelagius: We are all very proud of you -- you are right on target spiritually and emotionally.

6:45 Hannah2: I will be there Jim with bells on my toes!

6:49 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Hannah2: SUPER!

6:45 faithfull: Lisa I would like to come especially since is the date of my anniversary. It should Help. Can I bring someone with me so I do not have to travel alone.

6:48 Lisa Kahan [Administrator]: faithfull: - yes of course, we've had many people bring someone along. They'll learn and enjoy it just the same.

6:45 Pelagius: Swan, @ 6:41, yes, h loved being a project manager, but he lost a job doing that. He took another job, but he wasn't the boss. Then he was the boss here and it was a huge contract; he lost interest in it and hasn't found his way yet.

6:45 TiredB2: Jim@643 and loses his interest when he feels he failed at making our world all that..... but I do not know how to impress upon him.... it’s the man I love no matter what and not the toys.

6:49 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: TiredB2: Remember that little boys give their moms gadgets in order to impress them -- just be thankful for the gifts and that will help him to feel accepted.

6:45 Brin2: Jim, My H seems so sure of filing for D, yet still gives me mixed signals. He wants to meet yet again to decide what issues to discuss with mediator. He asked when. Since it's my BD, I'd rather not see him. Busy this week except for eve of Jul 4th.

6:50 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Brin2: yes I think he is giving you mixed signals, but also remember that sometimes the mediator approach is a way that a man thinks he can get out of the marriage more cheaply.

6:46 TiredB2: Brin: I hope your Birthday is the beginning of many new memories and Blessing from God

6:46 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:41, thanks for the reminder; I told the Lord last night I think I am ready for reconciliation, but if not, please make me ready. There will be more work on the other side.

6:46 Brin2: Jim (contd), I have been feeling much pain since meeting him last week to discuss mediation meeting. Now I don't feel like seeing him again. Maybe my heart is getting cold or maybe just protecting my heart.

6:51 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Brin2: Just let the holiday period give your heart a chance to recover.

6:47 Pelagius: TiredB2 @ 6:45, yes, I wanted to text my h today and say if he DIDN'T get this job he is bidding on to start his own business, it's okay, because I love him for who he is, not what he does or how much money he makes.

6:47 cheyanne: Jim-- in a weird place with him feels so uncomfortable so I guess if that happens again I will say Hi really casually..I felt so odd because of little shade we actually sat quite close, one person away...I said nothing to him he said nothing to me

6:51 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: cheyanne: yes it's ok to be normal and civil to each other.

6:47 Pelagius: TiredB2 @ 6:45, but I stopped short of doing that. I don't know why.

6:48 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:47, thanks. But I wouldn't be without all of you and your prayers.

6:52 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Pelagius: That would be awesome! We like to have worship time.

6:48 Brin2: TiredB@6:46, Thank you for your sweet wishes. His leaving was a BD present and then last year his "never coming home" speech was another BD present. So this year I am wary.

6:48 Pelagius: Lisa, some of us were talking about putting together a band for the retreat. There are some performers in this group.

6:49 TiredB2: Pelagius: @ 647.... following your gut is good........ is when the best decisions are made.

6:50 Brin2: Lisa, Yes, I do have a retreat question - someone mentioned you organize post- and maybe pre-retreat activities - is that true?

6:53 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Brin2: Yes, I'll plan some things for anyone who wants to stay an extra day or so. I'll send out some ideas for the group to decide on collectively. Or, they can also split up and go different places.

6:51 Pelagius: TiredB2 @ 6:49, thanks. He is supposed to meet with the people who want to give him this construction contract. He knows he doesn't have much experience, so he contacted a friend to partner with him. I'll text him tomorrow and ask how it (cont)

6:51 Brin2: Hannah@6:46, You'll have to show me how to wear bells on my toes! LOL!

6:51 TiredB2: Jim @649 thank you..... I do love the gadget...... but I just love him in-spite of himself oh so much more.......Told him I would be here for him no matter what. He does says it’s never been that he doesn’t love me, and promised to get straighten out

6:51 Pelagius: (cont) went and tell him I wish the best for him, but if it doesn't work out, that doesn't define who he is.

6:52 Pelagius: Brin2 @ 6:46, I am so sorry this is dragging on. I remember how hurt I felt when he brought up the divorce back in February. There have been times I thought I didn't love my h anymore.

6:52 Brin2: Jim@6:50, The mediator thing was my suggestion to get us to communicate safely because he wanted to talk with me (without lawyers) so this is a compromise. He is being nice because he wants D from me.

6:55 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Brin2: yes I think he is trying to avoid spending any money. If you continue with the mediator approach, I would encourage you to get some outside advice so that you can ask for whatever you really need in any mediation talks.

6:52 TiredB2: Pelagius@ 651.....you will find just the right moment and the right words will just spill out about your excitement for this opportunity for him.....

6:53 cheyanne: Jim lol I know it’s ok....it’s just so tense I feel frozen around him and don’t talk to him mostly he runs away anyway..but with the shade situation he did not..but I did not say anything to him..the friend told me until I was there he was very chatty

6:56 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: cheyanne: His behavior is very normal for strained relationships.

6:53 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:52, I used to play the piano for a church, and lead worship. Tamashii plays several instruments, so does Geebo. There were some other people who sang, and I've lost track of them all.

6:57 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Pelagius: We will definitely work on doing this, it will be great!

6:54 TiredB2: Pelagius: I love to sing..... my kids love it more when I dont

6:54 Hannah2: Pelagius we all sing at retreat

6:54 Swanlake: Jim - @6:52 - come on now, we know you are just looking for a reason to be able to get up and dance!! LOL - I can still see you whenever I think about retreats in the past, you definitely make them fun.

6:58 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Swanlake: I just get my fun energy from you and the rest of the fun people who show up at the retreat.

6:54 Hannah2: Pelagius we all cry too so there are plenty of kleenex boxes

6:54 Pelagius: TiredB2, I missed it. What gadget did you get?

6:55 Brin2: Pel@6:52, Thanks. Did your H give up on filing?

6:55 cheyanne: oh yeah I meant to say I like the theme of the retreat living your life forward....good name and theme can’t wait...r any of the new books going to be out by then or before?

6:56 Pelagius: Brin2 @ 6:52, I understand that impulse. My h filed for an uncontested divorce. If I don't sign the papers, there isn't one. But during the period he was really pressing, I dreaded talking to him about what I would insist upon in a (cont)

6:56 Pelagius: (cont) settlement. He didn't want to get a lawyer, but he still could, and have me served and I'd be required to respond. But he has no money! And he doesn't want to spend money on one. But sometimes I think, for financial purposes, I should (cont

6:56 Hannah2: goodnight all, take care and have a super duper Tuesday.

6:56 TiredB2: Pelagius@ 654 ..... was using Jims phrase in answer he gave her at 646 and 649

6:57 Pelagius: (cont) get him to agree to my terms and just get it over with. But I can't. I’m taking the risk he will not get a lawyer and we'll keep delaying.

6:57 faithfull: Good night everyone and thanks. I will wait on the Lord and for the right time to make contact with H again. God bless

6:57 Pelagius: TiredB2 @ 6:56, LOL! I'll check it out. Good night faithfull! Love your name!

6:57 Brin2: Jim@6:55, Do you mean ask a lawyer? I thought that even if we use a mediator, especially since it wasn't ordered by the court, I don't have to agree with the mediation result if I don't want to.

7:01 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Brin2: You may not be able to say whether you agree with the mediation or not, if you don't know what you should have from your potential divorce. So I would encourage you to get some good advice whether it's from a lawyer or another very knowledgeable person.

6:58 TiredB2: Jim I see us progressing...... but that darn tunnel is so safe....... ARGH

6:58 Swanlake: Pelagius - have you verified that is the procedure, because in California if I didn't sign, that was not considered me contesting the divorce, it only meant he had to go before a judge to have the petition for divorce granted. He could get it with

6:58 Swanlake: Pelagius - continued - or without me, it would just take a few more months without my signature

6:58 Rollercoasterider: I want to go to a retreat! Uffda...free, but travel and lodging still cost. Sigh...someday

6:59 Pelagius: Swan @ 6:58, yes, I checked. I called the clerk's office. If I don't sign, and he doesn't serve me with a summons, it will be dismissed. He'll get a letter saying it is up for dismissal and he has thirty days to have me served.

6:59 Pelagius: But if he serves me with a summons and I don't reply, he gets a default judgment.

6:59 cheyanne: swan I didn’t know that about the signature....I guess it doesn’t matter...i had such a crummy lawyer....the pits

7:00 Rollercoasterider: Jim: I like it--and have only briefly looked at the main page! Can’t wait to read more

7:00 Brin2: Pel@6:57, Sounds like a good plan to me. Were you at last year's retreat?

7:00 Pelagius: cheyanne @ 6:59, ouch, I am sorry...not all lawyers are created equal...or even good!

7:00 Pelagius: No, haven't been to one yet. Will try this year.

7:00 TiredB2: cheyanne: is there any chance you can find a new one that will work for you?

7:00 Pelagius: RCR @ 6:58, share a room with me!

7:01 Swanlake: cheyanne - oh girl, when I was preparing for war in my husband's divorce - you know before God touched my heart and smacked me upside the head, I did a lot of research and spoke to some real ruthless lawyers. Have to say, I am glad God got to me

7:01 Brin2: Pel, What's a default judgment? What would it be in your case?

7:01 Rollercoasterider: Pelagius: seriously...really I’m not kidding, as I read it I thought of rooming with you...supposing I could go

7:02 Pelagius: Hannah2 @ 6:54, neat!

7:02 Swanlake: cheyanne - continued - and I didn't take the course I was gearing up for, it would have been ugly and I wouldn't have felt good about it, even though I would have gotten a lot more than I did.

7:02 Pelagius: Hannah2 @ 6:54, ouch, I know. That's why I haven't played the piano in a while. It is relaxing, but it makes me cry.

7:02 cheyanne: tiredb2 the d is done

7:02 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Thanks everyone for being in the chat room today. If you got lost during the chat process, check back later to find the edited chat dialogue posted in the archives, there you can read it at your own pace. It's been fun talking with you today. We, at Midlife Dimensions, will remember you and your marriages in prayer throughout the week. Warmly in Christ, Jim.

7:02 Swanlake: Gotta go all, see you Friday

7:02 Rollercoasterider: Jim: but it looks like it’s packed with stuff! Maybe the links don't work??? I'll be checking

7:03 TiredB2: yes good night all..... have a great fourth

7:03 Pelagius: RCR @ 7:01, we'll talk more!

7:03 Brin2: Good night all. Thank you Jim and everyone. Have a great week.

7:03 Pelagius: THANKS JIM, Lisa, and everyone!

7:04 LisaK [Administrator]: 6:55 cheyanne: so sad that Jim missed seeing this one. I do think that Jan's book might be out by then. "The Finisher".

7:04 Rollercoasterider: I can't afford..but will look up airfare anyway...fingers crossed

7:04 Rollercoasterider: airfare...oops

7:05 Pelagius: RCR, does Southwest fly from where you live?

7:05 Pelagius: Gotta go. Good night, all!!

7:05 Rollercoasterider: Probably...I'll look them up. Don't know if Sweetheart would want me to go--due to finances. But I still will check

7:06 Rollercoasterider: good night Lisa

7:06 LisaK [Administrator]: "We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed" (2 Corinthians 4:8-9).

7:07 LisaK [Administrator]: Jesus, You love us so much that You died on the cross to save us from sin and death. Help us to focus on Your love and find our strength and self-worth in You. In Your Name, Amen.

7:11 LisaK [Administrator]:
For a list of media recommendations by Jim Conway, Midlife Dimensions, Lisa Kahan, and our Chat Room Facilitators, please visit Amazon via our special link: http://astore.amazon.com/midlife-20. Amazon sends a donation to the non-profit ministry of Midlife Dimensions anytime an order is placed via our link. We hope you enjoy the various lists of recommendations and thank you for supporting Midlife Dimensions through Amazon.

June 15, 2009 / With Jim Conway

6:04 LisaK [Administrator]: Welcome to Monday Night Chat with Jim. I’m Lisa, the Office Manager for Midlife Dimensions. I’m blessed to serve the Lord through our Chat Room Ministry which has helped so many people through their spouse’s midlife journey. Jim Conway will be online with us shortly and as he reads your questions, he’ll dictate his answers for me to type and post for you to see. He will answer all questions that come in before the end of the hour.

6:01 sbky: hello

6:02 Swanlake: Hello all, how are you tonight?

6:02 Cricket2: Hi all - Hope you all had a good week.

6:02 sbky: swan.. wore out. been with my mom at the hospital .. my uncle is dying

6:03 vsingh: Hello all

6:03 soulcoach: Just stopping quickly to say hello...can’t stay long

6:03 vsingh: sbky: I am sorry. I am praying for your family

6:03 sbky: vsingh thank you.

6:03 Swanlake: sbky - sorry to hear that, however, it is nice that you are able to spend time with your family during this.

6:03 vsingh: sbky: is it your mom's brother

6:04 anita180: sbky- me too, in the Name of Jesus and by the Blood of Jesus!

6:04 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Hello Everyone, Jan and I are back in Michigan after being on the road for the last 4 weeks. It may sound funny but, last Monday night's chat session - the only quiet place I could find in the home in which we were staying was in the bathroom - so all last Monday I was talking to you from the bathroom. Now we are back home and in Michigan and trying to get the office set up here - every time we change locations there's a lot of set up work that needs to be done. Jan and I are both healthy and Jan's book, "The Finisher", is at the publishers now - hopefully it will be out in August. So, what are your questions tonight?

6:04 sbky: vsingh. yes it is.. I was with them from Wednesday night till last night. I had to come home and work today. they sent him home today.. with hospice..

6:04 steadfast: sbky: Sorry to hear about your uncle-praying for you and the family--difficult time.

6:04 Pelagius: Hi all. sbky, sorry about your uncle...

6:04 Pelagius: Hi Jim!

6:05 anita180: Hi Jim, this is my first time meeting you

6:06 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Anita180, WELCOME! I’m Jim Conway, President of Midlife Dimensions. This room is here to encourage you and answer questions you have about your current situation. Important: Do NOT share personal information such as an email or home address, phone #, or any names. Here’s how to join in: 1) Type the name of the person you want to speak to followed by your entry. 2) You’re limited to 250 keystrokes per entry. If your entry is long, then click “chat” to post it and start your next entry with the word “continued”. 3) Type “To All” if you have a general entry not directed to one person. 4) If you’d like to contact someone in the room, email or call us at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. or 714-768-1777. We’ll have them contact you to exchange information.

6:05 sbky: all there is a silver lining. this all started Wednesday about 11 am. I didn’t have time to think about it being my anniversary..

6:05 vsingh: sbky: with all the difficulties with mlc spouse other difficulties are hard

6:05 Pelagius: I received the divorce papers my h mailed me. They came Friday morning. They are awful - full of errors, none of the things he said he would include - leaving me as the beneficiary on the life insurance..monthly payment for the taxes.

6:05 Cricket2: Jim -H began pulling back about 5 wks, "just friends" mode. He's said OW passed him driving, waved & friendly, he was pleased. Lately he's spending money more & more distant with friend & me. MRI showed bulging discs in neck, so health scare too.

6:10 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Cricket2: Perhaps the physical health scare will be used by God to help him think more about the good relationship the 2 of you had.

6:06 Rollercoasterider: Jim: You were talking to us from the throne? :O

6:10 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Rollercoasterider: I cannot tell a lie - but it's probably better to just let you imagine.

6:06 Pelagius: (cont) but he texted me Friday morning, all worried about me. While I was at work he came over and mowed the lawn! He started texting Friday night about the Stanley Cup, and I said too bad we weren't in PA to watch it. He expressed shock I'd (cont

6:07 Rollercoasterider: Pelagius: Errors can be a good thing for contesting...it just takes more time

6:07 Pelagius: (cont) live there (it's where he's from). I texted back, of course, that was always the plan...finish my degree and move home. He said you'd move all that way? Is he doubting the divorce perhaps!

6:07 anita180: Pelagius-how long have you 2 been apart?

6:07 Pelagius: RCR @ 6:06 - LOL!!! How funny!

6:07 anita180: :o)

6:07 Cricket2: Pelagius - My H said he would do all he could to keep me in our home when he filed for D. As things went along, changed his approach. I had to fight to keep my home with attorney's help. It is sad but you need a strong attorney to fight/be bad guy

6:07 Pelagius: anita 180 @ 6:07, June 16 will the one-year anniversary of the I"m confused speech, then 3-4 weeks later he confessed to being unfaithful. He moved out the last week of July...so it has been almost a year.

6:08 anita180: I will stand for you in prayer

6:08 Cricket2: RCR - You are right. My H's attorney made mistakes & missed deadlines which caused his D to take much longer & he had no one to blame but his attorney

6:08 vsingh: anita180:Is your h with u?

6:08 steadfast: Cricket: Found out it was wishful thinking. H and ow still together. Every now and again get psyched up and think maybe this is it and it is over between the 2 of them but guess not-- they're still going strong with their plans for him to transfer to

6:08 Pelagius: Cricket2 @ 6:07, well, he filed for an uncontested divorce. if I don't respond, it will just sit there for a year and then be dismissed. If he gets an attorney to serve me, then I'll have to answer. So I’m just not talking to him about it.

6:08 anita180: he left us 5 wks ago

6:08 TiredB2: wow...... good evening

6:09 Pelagius: Cricket2 @ 6:07, I take your point, though...they start out nice about everything, like when h gave me the speech. Didn't want to move out, didn't want to divorce...he started talking divorce in February. But why doesn't he get an attorney (cont)

6:09 vsingh: anita180: my h left me almost 3 years ago and married ow

6:09 Pelagius: (cont) and serve me, instead of filing uncontested which depends upon my response?

6:10 Rollercoasterider: Cricket: They messed up my B-day, name (okay, so everyone messes up my 1st name), date of separation--it was amusing

6:10 Cricket2: Pelagius - Sounds like a good approach. I live in a no fault state so all I could do was fight to protect myself & stall where I could

6:10 steadfast: Cricket; job near town where he grew up and where ow is. He spends most of his time down there anyways and is commuting back and forth each day. PS Person I told you about is reading Jim's book so thankful for that.

6:10 Pelagius: anita180 @ 6:08, ouch, that's new, and recent, and raw. (((((((((hugs))))))))))) Glad you're here...well, you know....glad you found this place.

6:10 faithfull: Hello everyone. I need you guys to pray for me I am going in the am to see DA for child support

6:10 anita180: I am so sorry vsingh-is it too late for me to stand for you 2? I want 2

6:10 Pelagius: Cricket2 @ 6:10, it will work until/unless he decides to get a lawyer.

6:11 Cricket2: Pelagius - I think the mean what they say about having good intentions but as things go along, they see reality of finances & things change.

6:11 anita180: I will faithful

6:11 Pelagius: Cricket2 @ 6:11, I think so too. His reason for not wanting/getting a lawyer is $$$. But we rent this house and I got a second job almost immediately. If I have to play hardball, it will be over money. He's unemployed and I’ll ask for 1/3 of (cont

6:11 vsingh: anita180:I don't feel it will last with her. I am waiting on God

6:12 Pelagius: (cont) his USAF retirement...OW can't reap where she didn't sow!

6:12 anita180: I pray unceasingly, fasts, etc..always have, always will

6:12 anita180: good to know!!!

6:12 vsingh: anita180:God will give me guidance

6:12 vsingh: anita: do you have kids?

6:13 Rollercoasterider: All: LISTEN...AWESOME BOOk RECOMMENDATION! I just read 'My Husband's Affair Became the Best Thing That Ever Happened to Me' by Anne Bercht. This is pure memoir, not instructional or informational, all emotional. one of the best I've ever read...cont'

6:13 vsingh: faithful: I will pray for you

6:13 anita180: 2, 18 & 19 years

6:13 Cricket2: Jim - H just referred to surgeon about his neck, after having 6 back surgeries/other issues, It's very discouraging. He'd been pulling back but still friendly. He's been spending a lot of money buying things for his home, enjoying "single life"

6:14 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Cricket2: Don't worry about the stuff that he is buying - that's just symbolic that his life is very empty. Let him go thru this stage to see that he needs more than just toys to give him fulfillment.

6:13 anita180: u?

6:13 Pelagius: We texted back and forth MANY times Friday, Friday night, and Saturday and even spoke on the phone. Late in the day I got a text that he enjoyed our conversations. I’m convinced he doesn't want me to go away. Call it cake-eating...but I don't (con

6:13 Pelagius: (cont) think he wants to lose me....

6:13 steadfast: Jim: Just telling Cricket that I got psyched up that maybe h and ow breaking up but not so. He plans to move to town where grew up and transfer jobs there in another year. Right now commuting to and from this town to work. I think it is all part of fantasy to relive the better times and happy memories when growing up. Do you think. And also try not to get disappointed but when praying for things to turn around and no outward signs in 2 years--sometimes discouraging

6:16 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: steadfast: It's very important not to let your emotions get tied to some of the good or bad behaviors of your husband. Keep yourself stabilized on God and trusted friends so that you are stable even though he is going up and down.

6:13 vsingh: anita: I have a 14 year old son, he was 11 when h left

6:14 Pelagius: Cricket2 @ 6:13, I've heard stories of couples who don't divorce, or re-marry, but maintain separate households. What do you think of that?

6:14 anita180: how is he today?

6:14 Rollercoasterider: All: cont'd: and that's saying something since I read so many books! I stayed up until 1 am reading and then woke at 6am to finish it. It's a must read!

6:14 vsingh: anita: h ow are your kids taking it?

6:14 Pelagius: steadfast @ 6:13, bless you, you can't catch a break sometimes, can you?

6:14 Rollercoasterider: Jim @ 6:10: Don't worry...I'm not even going to imagine!

6:16 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Rollercoasterider: Thanks!

6:14 Swanlake: Pelagius - how long were you married during his military service and did he do a full 20 or more years on active duty? The military is very clear cut on what part of a service retirement a spouse can receive during a divorce, time can be anywhere

6:14 Pelagius: vsingh, I didn't know you had a son.

6:14 anita180: mine are very upset and sad, but they keep busy with school and work

6:15 faithfull: H came over to pick up the kids. We talk for a while. States he is still empty and does not know what he wants. He did agree that maybe we could go out for coffee or something sometimes. States he does not hate me.

6:15 Swanlake: Pelagius - continued - from five years to death of service member, however, the amount is always 49%.

6:15 faithfull: cont states he care very much about me but does not love me.

6:15 Pelagius: Swan @ 6:14, he did 21 years, but we have only been married 3, although we were together 14. It would have to be voluntary on his part, to agree to it. I will lose all my base privileges if the divorce goes through. And I will lose Tricare,(cont)

6:16 Pelagius: (cont) so healthcare will be more expensive for me.

6:16 vsingh: pel: yes, it was real hard on him for a while but he is better now

6:16 Cricket2: Steadfast - I’m sorry for the disappointment, but don't get discouraged. Several things your H has done lately are still good signs that he's thinking more about you. Glad about your friend, book helped me so much.

6:16 Tamashii: Just "listening" tonight...

6:16 Pelagius: Swan @ 6:15, yes, I think part of what is behind the push from OW to get him divorced is that five-year time line. The father of her 5-year-old is retired military and works in civil service and her child support is pretty hefty.

6:16 faithfull: Jim he bought my daughter roses last week. He bought her the red and me the yellow. I ask if it was on purpose and he said yes. He said he did not buy me the red because then I will get my hopes up and start going crazy. I told him I had not given up on the marriage. Did I do the right thing

6:20 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: faithfull: I’m glad that he could tell you that he bought you the yellow roses so that you would not get your hopes up. But remember, HE DID BUY YOU ROSES! Your response to him was very appropriate.

6:16 Pelagius: Hi Tamashii!

6:17 anita180: that is good to know-vsingh-i will still stand for u! it is not over, not by a long shot

6:17 TiredB2: sbky: my heart goes out to you.....

6:18 vsingh: anita180:thx, did your h have a difficult childhood?

6:18 sbky: triedb2 thank you..

6:18 Swanlake: Pelagius - only three years, yeah unfortunately the military doesn't really do much protection in that case. I happen to fall under the 20/20/20 regulation, so got to keep my military ID, privileges, medical and 49%. And yes, it irritates the heck

6:18 Pelagius: Swan @ 6:15, she survives on welfare, WIC, child support, etc. She will be surprised to find out she cannot draw his USAF retirement indefinitely because he can't afford to buy up the survivor pay benefit - it's been years.

6:18 Tamashii: Faithful: Yellow roses indicate friendship

6:18 Cricket2: Jim - Thanks, I told his friend that H was fighting depression by buying things. At first he did nothing with his home, better he's fixing it up. Think OW's friendly wave to him may also have tipped him upside down a little. She'd been very cold.

6:21 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Cricket2: Remember that she is also trying to get out of the relationship. And she is struggling with the ups and downs of letting go. Generally people don't leave a relationship until the pain level gets sufficiently high to force a change.

6:18 Pelagius: Swan @ 6:18 out of OW?

6:18 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: TO EVERYONE IN THE ROOM. As I talk to you, I’m looking out of my office window across our lake which is almost as smooth as glass - and the sun is just starting to set behind the hills on the other side of the lake - about a mile away. It is one of those ideal sights that God allows us to enjoy off and on in our lives. I just wanted to share it with all of you - maybe I'll have Lisa post a picture.

6:18 anita180: yes, dies commit suicide age 4, other stuff, too much to list. yet, God is faithful

6:18 sbky: tiredb, they called my mom and said hospice didn’t think it would be very long tonight before you passes. I wanted to go out there but I am exhausted from being at the hospital and sleeping on the floor for 4 nights..

6:19 anita180: my dad died

6:19 Pelagius: Swan @ 6:18, but he can write me a check every month!

6:19 Swanlake: Pelagius - continued - out of the other woman, she has stated more than once to even my children that it would be the best thing for them if I was no longer living.

6:19 Pelagius: anita180 @ 6:19, when?

6:19 TiredB2: I am back again...... computer doesn’t like this

6:19 anita180: 1969 sept3

6:19 Pelagius: Swan! @ 6:19! O H my.

6:19 faithfull: Tamashii yes I know yellow means friendship and I am thankful for them, at least it’s something.

6:20 TiredB2: Swan: that’s just wrong

6:20 anita180: us five daughters stood with our mom, we are a fortress never can be broken-even with this

6:20 faithfull: cont but you know I wish they would have been the red. I am not giving up hope. I am up and down.

6:20 vsingh: anita: I am sorry. MLC usually is with people who have unresolved childhood issues

6:20 Cricket2: Jim - I've been following his lead, since he pulled back, I’m giving him space. I’m not calling as I'd been, not inviting him to golf w/me although he's seen me out there & joined me. We went to celeb. of life last wk in Yosemite, he kept close there

6:23 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Cricket2: He is acting very ordinary in his "lame male" approach to reconnecting with you.

6:20 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:18, it sounds idyllic. It is nice to look out into nature and that while there is chaos in our hearts, there is order in nature. I remember my h spending a lot of time in nature when the MLC first started getting the best of him. I heard it helps with emotions to be out in nature.

6:24 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Pelagius: Looking out at water and a sunset has a very calming affect on me.

6:21 steadfast: Thanks Jim. Yes, I had to keep focused on the Lord and His promises

6:21 Pelagius: Swan @ 6:19, that's just evil.

6:21 anita180: I am glad to know, will check out ltr.thks

6:22 Swanlake: TiredB - yes, it is wrong of her to say those types of things (my children are in their late 20's), but it also gives validation to how threatened she is by me, even when there has been absolutely no contact between my husband and I for almost 3 yrs.

6:22 Pelagius: Well, since he texted to say how much he enjoyed our conversations, he dropped off the face of the earth. I texted him good night last night and haven't heard from him. I think he could text Friday night because OW was out or something.

6:22 TiredB2: sbky: my mom was my cousins legal guardian..... my mom in wonderful,..... she took care of my g ma and my cousin.. called my in tears one day to take her to say good bye to her sister....... it’s great you could be there for them.

6:22 Pelagius: SHE's the one who treats him like a child...!!! Controlling....

6:22 TiredB2: Sbky even as hard as it is to be there ..

6:22 Rollercoasterider: All: Sorry, Sweetheart called, I’m back

6:23 Cricket2: Faithful -I think that was good. It's wonderful that he bought you a rose at all. I told my H that I wasn't at a place where I could give up on our marriage when he pushed me to move on. I just said I wasn't ready to do that. He understood.

6:23 steadfast: Jim: at 6:18 Yes, as picture would be very nice.

6:23 sbky: tiredb.. I wasn’t to be there tonight but just to exhausted

6:23 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:21, thanks for that comment. When I talked to h about the divorce papers, asking him to mail them rather than meeting me, he said he could leave the b**ch's house anytime he wanted...he was SO angry. I am hoping his pain levels get sufficiently high very soon! He also said this weekend that it is cooler outside than in the house (it's been in the 80s here)...and he snarled about it.

6:25 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Pelagius: You might find it helpful to read the chapter in my book, "Men In Midlife Crisis" entitled "Escaping the Affair". It will give you some insight into this process.

6:23 Swanlake: Pelagius - Satan whispers into her ears and she repeats his words, she really isn't an evil person, she is a child of God who just like my husband is lost and being lead astray by Satan for this season.

6:23 steadfast: Pelagius: Thanks for your comment earlier re 6:15

6:24 TiredB2: faithful..... look up it was a wonderful gesture...... for both of you

6:24 anita180: swanlake-u are so right!

6:25 Pelagius: Steadfast, @ 6:23 you are so welcome. You're doing a great job! Jim @ 6:24, I was craving a swim this weekend. Had an evening at friends' house and got to use their pool and the next day was craving the lake....

6:25 TiredB2: swan: I admire your grace..... it is really exciting to watch you and to listen you wisdom....

6:25 Rollercoasterider: Anita: Request. Could you put the name of the person you are speaking to before your message--and the time if referencing a specific comment--say All: for everyone.

6:25 faithfull: Jim, another thing before he would say he never thought of me. Today he said he thinks about me once in a while. My son says he is very afraid for his father because he is very depress. Do you recommend something. My s is afraid of suicide.

6:29 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: faithfull: Tell your son that he can be a powerful help to his dad right now by just talking about some of the fun memories that he has from when he was a child. Encourage your son to not discuss anything within the last 3 to 5 years. It sounds as if he needs some help for depression - sometimes simple things such as more exercise, eating more of a raw food diet, and increasing his vitamin B1 and B complex vitamins can be helpful, without going on doctor prescribed meds.

6:25 TiredB2: sbky: I bet you are exhausted.... but the days you spent on the floor there will give you great peace and rewards

6:25 anita180: rollerc-got it, learning, thanks!

6:26 Pelagius: Swan, did I tell you! I finally broke down, after a huge wrestle with God, and prayed, just one line, for OW. The next day, I was praying so hard for her to see the light, to look through and understand that my h isn't well. Mostly I pray (cont)

6:26 Cricket2: Jim - Thanks, in Yosemite for the spreading of the ashes for our friend. He seemed to follow me & stay very close, this wasn't his comfort zone & he didn't know people as well as I did so he looked to me. I acted as friend but independent too there.

6:29 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Cricket2: You had a great response, we're all proud of you.

6:26 sbky: all I am going to fill up my large tub with very hot water and soak for a bit.. than go to bed.

6:26 Cricket2: sbky - Hope you get to feeling better. Take care.

6:26 Swanlake: Jim - @6:24 - you are so right, I love when the evenings are calm, I sit out on my deck overlooking the lake and watch the wildlife, sunset, etc. The past few nights we have had the most beautiful full moons and the way it shimmers on the lake...

6:30 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Swanlake: Isn't it wonderful to watch the sunset and the moon-set across the lake.

6:26 Pelagius: (cont) for her little boy, that his heart won't be broken by being attached to my h. And you know what God says? He says, "he's my problem...I've got him...." Wow.

6:26 sbky: tiredb yes. I know I was there for him and my mom. his kids couldn’t even stay in the room for more than 30 or 40 minutes at a time. I was so shocked at how they acted

6:27 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:25, I just have to get that book.

6:27 TiredB2: sbky: enjoy..... that’s one of my favorite places at home..... too

6:27 Cricket2: Swan - You paint a beautiful serene word picture for your new home. Can't wait to come visit

6:27 Pelagius: sbky, sounds heavenly.

6:27 Pelagius: Sound sleep, sbky -

6:28 TiredB2: Jim: got any advice for those lame moments of connections we each may experience...... it’s just so crazy?

6:28 sbky: all. yes sleep , eight hours of work and then deal with whatever is going on with my uncle tomorrow evening. night all

6:28 Cricket2: Pelagius - The OW can definitely put a damper on his texting, however they also go through waves of emotions, wanting contact with us one day, and pulling back the next. You just want to stay steady.

6:28 Rollercoasterider: Cricket/Jim: LOL Sorry but "Lame Male" is making me think of Lemuel (Le Muel) Gulliver's first name...I'm laughing! Say "Lame Male" fast three times.

6:28 Swanlake: Pelagius - I have to admit that when I first stated praying for the other woman it was for her to see the light, reconcile with her own husband, etc. However, after a few months, my prayers for her naturally became personal and sincerely heartfelt.

6:28 Pelagius: And you know what I think when God says "I've got him"? I think he not only means the little boy of OW, but the little boy inside my h who hurts to badly.

6:29 Rollercoasterider: Anita: Cool...I was trying to follow you and got lost. Mondays are faster than other days since Jim is in here...so it's tough to follow

6:29 Jo2: All - You didn't know that I was 'gone.' I heard my cat 'crooning' (the "I have found something" sound). I left computer to look - he had cornered a lizard. It must have come in Sat. when my grand-daughter left the door open while she sat on porch

6:29 Swanlake: Pelagius - continued - there have been times when a simple prayer for her has become a deep burden on my heart and I find myself crying and pleading with God for her rescue from the enemy. I don't know this woman, but I feel compassion and love for

6:29 Pelagius: Cricket2 @ 6:28 I have a theory. When he is afraid I'll pull away, he texts and calls. When he's secure that I won't, he relaxes and stops. I have sort of gotten used to it. But I have finally learned that even so, the next thing that (cont)

6:30 Pelagius: (cont) happens will send me for a loop. if our divorce is ever final, I might crumble. But yes...steady is the word. Thanks for your wisdom, Cricket.

6:30 anita180: rollerc-that is cool. I’m taking this all in, this moves fast!

6:31 Pelagius: TiredB2, are you doing better? Are you finally over that awful hurt from the last few weeks?

6:31 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:28 TiredB2: some times a joke about a funny experience in the past will relive the tension of the lame moments. Also, a good affirmation about the quality of his character will give him courage during those times.

6:31 Brin2: Hi everyone.

6:31 Swanlake: Pelagius - continued - her and that has purely been given to me by God. The Lord, told me once during prayer that no one else was praying for her, she wasn't praying for herself because she is blinded and doesn't see that she needs it, her first and

To all: This is Lisa the Office Manager. I just want to remind you that if you have a private question you don’t wish to discuss here, please consider scheduling a 1-on-1 phone counseling session with Jim. Contact us at 714-768-1777 or This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. to set up a session. You can find information on phone counseling on our website: www.midlife.com. Remember, Jim always offers his live counseling in the chat room without cost. If you wish to donate to our ministry to support the Website/Chat Room upkeep, please do so at www.Midlife.com. Thank you.

6:32 Pelagius: I guess the only thing I wonder about is, if he panics, texts, and I assure him I’m here, does that just give him license to do what he's going to do? I just don't feel like being in any kind of adversarial relationship with him. (cont)

6:32 Rollercoasterider: All: Last night I missed chat because my Mom and I were at the final session of our small group Bible study. The topic was Justification--Romans 5. It was so much fun! I’m still hyper from the excitement--seriously I have not been drinking!

6:32 TiredB2: Jim @ 631 ....hey thanks..... we have such awkward moments of silence lately...... can cut it with a knife...... but knives and me to get along ha LOL

6:33 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: TiredB2: Just make sure you don't use the knife to cut him up - hah!

6:32 Pelagius: (cont) I have an appointment with my counselor Wednesday, I moved it up, to see if/how I can get closure. Right now I am doing nothing on the divorce, but if I move forward, I want to do it NOT to GET closure, but because I have it.

6:32 Swanlake: Pelagius - continued - second husband's both still hold much anger towards her, her three sons are also angry with her and the rest of her friends and family "just want her to be happy". How can I as a child of God turn away from another child,

6:32 anita180: lisa, thanks! good to know

6:32 Pelagius: Swan @ 6:31, you're amazing.

6:33 Lia: All: Hello! Hey, just put together a small book shelf for many I’m reading. If I keep on, I'll need my own library!

6:33 Pelagius: Swan @ 6:32, I'll say it again, you're amazing!

6:33 steadfast: Jim: I sent my h a Father's day card at the same time that I forwarded the book "90 minutes in Heaven" by Don Piper that I have been wanting to send him for a long time. Wrote a scripture inside re the plans God has for him. It was a very light card. Wrote a couple memories down about our s when little. Told him also that I understand father's day can be sad since he lost his dad 2 years ago, encouraged him that we know where his dad is with the Lord and hoped liked the book

6:36 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: steadfast: Your response was really good and appropriate in light of your husband losing his dad a couple of years ago.

6:33 Rollercoasterider: Anita: make sure to come on the other nights when it's not quite so insane

6:33 Swanlake: Pelagius - continued - regardless of what sins she has fallen into. Besides, when we can have compassion for the other person, it heals our hearts and God is able to give us His peace and understanding.

6:33 Pelagius: Lia @ 6:33, I've got a whole room that is a library...oy, it will be tough to move when I leave here.

6:34 anita180: rollerc- I am going to have2!:)

6:34 Pelagius: Anita, yes, do come back...and other times ARE less crazy!

6:34 Cricket2: Pelagius - Your right. One moment they want us to move on, then if they think we are they get scared. I dreaded my H's divorce but now I realize that he had to do that to find it wasn't the answer. He's admitted he kept thinking of me all the time.

6:34 Pelagius: I plan to text h on Father's Day. I don't know if he will hear from his kids.

6:34 TiredB2: Pelagius: I am doing better...... Gave it to God again and again and again and........ well I am doing better....... still is drivin me crazy...... I am trying to find new adventures for me.

6:34 faithfull: Jim what do you recommend I do for my H for father days or should I do nothing. Don't want to push to hard.

6:37 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: faithfull: Remember that your husband is not your father, so encourage your kids to become more active.

6:34 anita180: Pelagius - thanks, like the encouragement! needed it, still do...

6:34 Swanlake: Pelagius - thank you 6:33, however, it is God who is amazing, I am simply a mouth-piece for Him.

6:34 Pelagius: Cricket @ 6:34, I know you're right, I just didn't want to have to be one of those who risks losing him completely via divorce. But if I do, I do.

6:35 TiredB2: Jim@ 631 does talking like Donald Duck count.

6:37 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: TiredB2: Yes! Definately!

6:35 anita180: swanlake-you glorify God

6:35 Rollercoasterider: Anita: so let's chat amidst the commotion. When was your Bomb Drop? Is there an OW (Other Woman)? Has your MLCer left home? What makes you think it is MLC?

6:35 Lia: Jim: spoke with ladies last night r/t I sent 2 non-threatening text to H while he was @ 24 bike race & 2X ow texted me to let me know she was with him & oh yes he's doing great & we will have great time type comments Do I take this as ow's insecurity? I didn't text back or say anything to H I want think he doesn't know but wonder if he could be so mean, he had knowledge of text. How can I send light affirming messages if I’m not sure if H had knowledge of those or not don't want look

6:38 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lia: Yes - I think he was showing off for the other woman.

6:35 Pelagius: Anita, I’m interested in your story too. Do you mind sharing?

6:35 Cricket2: All - Like Swan, I began praying for the OW, I too started with praying she'd see the truth & turn away from sin, but later the prayers came more naturally. Healing, for her salvation, but yes to see the truth, and for God's will

6:36 Brin2: Jim@6:18, Yes, please send us a picture of your lake with the "glassy" surface!

6:36 steadfast: Jim: as it was encouraging and inspiring story. He thanked me for it . Would you say that this was ok to do

6:38 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: steadfast: Yes it was a great idea.

6:36 Pelagius: Lia @ 6:35, my h's OW used to call me from his cell phone....

6:36 TiredB2: Jim@ 633.... I won’t, promise..... it is usually my fingers .... more stitches in my hands than I can count any more....... My kids just know that being me a bandaid means I was trying to cut something.

6:39 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: TiredB2: LOL!!

6:36 Pelagius: Lia @ 6:35, it was just to play head games with me....

6:36 Rollercoasterider: Anita: If you want to share I'll try and focus only on your stuff...since I'll go nuts trying to read everything that's on here!

6:37 Cricket2: Pelagius - I was so frightened of divorce but people here told me the D is just a piece of paper. I met someone who annulled the divorce & remarried. If they need to get the Div to see what they lost in us, so be it. God's will in our lives.

6:37 anita180: drop the bomb the night before he left for out of town bus. told sons over the phone. he lives with his mommy and daddy five mins away. too sarcastic? sorry

6:37 Pelagius: anita180 @ 6:37, better mom and dad than an OW!!

6:38 steadfast: Jim: The scripture was from Jeremiah "God's plans for us to succeed and not fail"

6:39 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: steadfast: great choice of a powerful scripture!

6:38 anita180: rollerc-you just made me chuckle-it has been awhile-that would be cool! thank u

6:38 Rollercoasterider: Anita: No, not too sarcastic; we understand. When/how long ago, was Bomb and how did he drop it?

6:38 Lia: Jim cont: desperate or be butt of their jokes. I would think H would either ignore or tell me himself to buzz off thoughts?????

6:38 Jo2: TiredB - My son can talk like Donald Duck. Can you?

6:39 Cricket2: Pelagius - They don't think like that - as far as taking advantage of us. Remember they are so messed up/confused/depressed. They will appreciate our unconditional love in time. You need to stay his best friend. You're doing right.

6:39 Lia: Pelagius: I won't get rid many, because I write in many of my books. Had to explain to kids Bible was our guide book in life & it's ok to write & highlight they are still not sure on that one!

6:39 Rollercoasterider: Pel @ 6:37: Not necessarily though. IT may feel better emotionally to and LBS (Left Behind Spouse) but the fantasy can wear off faster with co-habitation

6:39 Brin2: Jim, My H found a mediator to for negotiating for D but hadn't talked to him yet. I told him I needed to find out more before using one. Told him I have a few possibilities and would get back to him after I find out more about them. 1 is a mediator, the other 2 are Christian marriage intensives (Love & Respect, New Life). I thought it'd be better to email about them instead of talking on the phone so he could absorb info better without feeling put on spot. Thoughts?

6:42 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Brin2: The email is a better solution for discussing sticky issues.

6:40 steadfast: Jim: In emails I usually have a reason to send re need his signature re joint house insurance etc, I have tried to ask him questions about his job or chit chat abit but he never responds to any of this but did thank me for the book sent or other articles of encouragement. Is this because he doesn't want me to think there is hope? Do I keep on trying or back off?

6:43 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: steadfast: yes, he is trying to stay connected to you - but without giving you too premature hope.

6:40 Jo2: Lia - Is OW texting from her phone or your h's phone? She's pretty pushy. Yuk!

6:40 anita180: last Sunday of April.3 weeks before our 18 yr old graduated from H.S. two weeks before our 19yr.old finish college. both were on the honor roll. the oldest got 3 A's, did not pass Calculus-has to take over. 18 yr old was allowed to graduate.

6:40 Pelagius: anita180, did you know these chats are archived and you can come back and read them after they are posted? Thank goodness, because keeping up with everyone would be impossible....

6:40 anita180: Rollerc-sorry

6:41 Cricket2: Anita - This chat with Jim moves much faster than other chats because we all have so many questions & there are more people here. Come to other chats too, it's easier to follow but you don't have Jim's wisdom, just all of ours.

6:41 Rollercoasterider: PEl cont'd: actually it may not seem to wear of faster, but with more finality—more fights and conflict in the affair-relationship

6:41 anita180: rollerc- 18 year old needs to hand in a thesis and two other assignments

6:41 TiredB2: Jo2...yup..... some words you can understand and some you can’t....... my adult kids think I am a dork because I talk like Donald Duck sometimes/

6:42 Pelagius: lia @ 6:39, me too. I keep them all RCR @ 6:39, yes, I hope, in a way, that h can't get a job. He says he wants an apartment, but I think he should be stuck with OW until it is just literally hell on earth...

6:42 Lia: Pel 6:36 Oh this one is VERY BOLD & I’m sure that's it. She has clung to H since day one when she still had own boyfriend & begged my H to call her g/f after few weeks! After 5 wks she told H I'd have get used seeing her it's small town

6:42 anita180: rollerc-both are in martial arts.

6:42 vsingh: anita: is there ow? how long married?

6:42 faithfull: Anita mine drop the bomb April 14 so we are in the same stage.

6:42 Rollercoasterider: Anita: Why sorry--no need to be? SO is there an OW that you know of...if you do not know, do you suspect and if so what makes you suspect. April is recent, so you're still in the raw stages

6:43 Lia: Pel cont: Guess what! she better get used to me, I’m his kids' mom & his helpmeet created just for him by God himself & I’m NOT going ANYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

6:43 anita180: roller c-how could my in-laws allowed this, why not wait until after graduation? I am angry, but I still want him back

6:43 Brin2: Jim, OK -- great. Thanks.

6:43 anita180: roller, I don't think so, but hey who knows, but him, and God

6:43 Pelagius: RCR, @ 6:41, that's what I thought. He was coming home once a month since he lost his apartment, they fought on a regular schedule after he moved in with her. But in May he didn't come. I figure she put her foot down but I am sure they still have their fights!

6:43 Rollercoasterider: Pel: Nasty hedge of thorns prickles them!

6:44 anita180: faithful- I am sorry!

6:44 anita180: all, it sucks

6:44 Pelagius: Lia @ 6:42, oh my VERY bold...

6:44 TiredB2: Pelagius....... I think about your struggle often..... you have a big hug. from me...... you keep your chin up...... it is a scary thing that D...... Praying for the ow is hard, but God will work in their hearts too, and we never have to worry

6:45 Pelagius: RCR @ 6:43, yes, it is like God, or his own choices, are hemming him in.

6:45 Lia: Jim6:38 Confused you think she did it without his knowledge as he was racing or resting, or he encouraged her to do this?

6:47 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lia: he probably typed the text message while they were on a break, and he laughingly showed it to her. Remember that she may be feeling quite insecure with your husband as time moves along - so he'll have to continue to do things like this to keep her hooked.

6:45 Rollercoasterider: Anita: What do you mean about your in-laws allowing it? I get that your MLCer moved in with them...but leaving you is his choice and they may feel that he needs a place to crash. Are they taking sides, demonizing and blaming you?

6:45 faithfull: Anita It has not been easy but a lot of praying and on my knees with God. It sure has brought me closer to God. Plus this chat room encourages me and helps me not to give up.

6:45 anita180: lia- I like your moxy!

6:45 Pelagius: Jim what you said to steadfast is really important. I know they want to keep us connected, and yet not get our hopes up. It is so frustrating. It would be so much easier if he would just make up his mind and let me go. ... I think...

6:48 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Pelagius: it would not really be easier if she just told you to go away - that's very painful also.

6:45 Rollercoasterider: Anita: There is no right date for Bomb and moving out. Some do it on B-days or silver anniversaries...really awful

6:45 TiredB2: Pel cont: what is happening on the other side of the mountain..... God is in control..... we don’t need to know what is said or not said, done or not done...... God is a God of restoration..... PTL for that huh

6:45 Pelagius: TiredB2, you're so sweet. Thanks, love!

6:45 Brin2: TiredB, Pel, I also pray for OW's salvation almost everyday, and pray for God to meet all her needs so she would stop looking to my H for her needs.

6:45 Lia: Jo2 6:40 She texted from H's phone. My H is VERY private, nobody touches his stuff!

6:46 anita180: faithful-so true, firm believer in fasting also!

6:46 steadfast: Jim: I suspected and recently had it confirmed that my mil has spoken negatively repeatedly about me and even to our s. I believe she has been undermining me since she moved to our community 6 years ago. I pray for her but it hurts. She sides with h on any issues he had with me. It hurts. it’s like mil replaced me when she reunited with h after leaving him at age 15. She likes ow. I struggle with why as he continues to do this. I have given her no reason to be that way with me. Any suggestion

6:49 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: steadfast: her responses are clearly that of an insecure woman trying to destroy the competition.

6:46 anita180: rollerc-yeah, I just figured that one out....

6:46 Pelagius: anita180@ 6:44, it does. I got the speech the night before a HUGE job interview.

6:47 vsingh: pel: same here my h's ow took over his phone and he never let me

6:47 faithfull: Jim you are right my H says he does not want to get my hopes up and that is why he is so careful in what he says. I tell him I am thankful for his honesty even though is not want I want to hear.

6:49 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: faithfull: Good responses, be patient with him, and the midlife process.

6:47 Lia: Jo2 cont OW's ex bil is saved now & said the mother of ow is pushy manly doesn't need man except for $ & out 3 sisters, my H's ow was the worst, big mouth, pushy, a hippy, manipulative & controlling PTL he can use that!

6:47 anita180: Pelagius-did you get the job? what a *&^^%^^!

6:47 Rollercoasterider: Anita 6:43: Oaky, I know that comment might be a strong facade, but it's still good. MLCers have affairs--not all (Jim didn't) but in my perspective most do. Your attitude is preparing you and you will not be as blindsided as many when discovering

6:48 Pelagius: vsingh, @ 6:47, my h wouldn't buy cell phones until he started affair with OW. Told me it was for my birthday (he slept with her the day after my birthday, he recently told me). He keeps telling me crazy stuff, and yet I don't leave!

6:48 vsingh: steadfast: my x in-laws dropped me like hot potato when my h did, blood thicker than water. I did a lot for them

6:48 anita180: rollerc-u saying there is ow?

6:48 Pelagius: vsingh @ 6:47, she doesn’t' have control of the phone, but one night she egged him on about whether he'd been in touch with me. He dialed my number, handed her the phone, and said call and ask her.

6:48 TiredB2: test where did I go

6:49 Cricket2: Anita - In laws do tend to support H as they are afraid of losing them. Also H's tend to tell them how miserable/depressed they were with us. At first in laws believe this but in time they see the truth. Mine are more supportive of me now than ever

6:49 Brin2: TB, invisible again??? see my post @6:45

6:49 anita180: rollerc- I will put on the amour of God

6:49 Pelagius: anita180@ 6;47, I did. I was returning to a job I'd left, and he said that one of my colleagues at the job was the reason he was discontent and cheated. She WAS a handful and a pill, but he never said anything about it.

6:49 vsingh: Jim: why do they do things with ow, they would never do with us. I was forced to live with h's mother, and ow does not

6:51 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: vsingh: he is rebelling against his family so he is not making the ow do the things you had to do.

6:50 Rollercoasterider: Anita cont'd: the affair. I know it sounds strange, but it can be an advantage in this position. Sweetheart self-disclosed that he was planning to have an affair--clearly it was already emotional-- but do you know how rare self disclosure after cont'

6:50 Lia: Anita189 Thanks, it's taken me a year plus to get it!!!!! All I know is after reading Debi Pearl's Helpmeet I realize many women I know were far more controlling than I & very naggy, but it is restoring my desire to serve in a profound new way

6:50 steadfast: Vsingh: Sorry to hear that in your case also this happens. Unfortunately my mil was doing this long before h left. I was always good to her

6:50 anita180: Pelagius - wow! incredible!

6:50 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:48, yes, I'd rather have his confusion than his rejection. But I saw a Jewish character on a TV show last night say to his colleague who'd been jilted, rejection is God's protection. Maybe under NORMAL circumstances...this is FAR from normal! LOL!

6:53 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Pelagius: the only way build our muscles is to exercise them, and the only way to get patience is to have them tested. Remember that God is in the process of helping you to grow and change, not just your husband.

6:51 Cricket2: Vsingh - It's typical for them to do things with OW. They are trying to win them over, when things are new, both of them are trying to impress but in time they resent things like that.

6:51 Rollercoasterider: Anita cont'd: an affair is...and I got one who self-disclosed before! I was worried once it was physical I'd have images in my head...but it was so much easier being prepared and the images weren't there

6:51 faithfull: Hey guys have to go I am going for a walk with my kids.

6:51 Lia: Jim 6:37 Even though they were signed with her name?

6:54 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lia: I’m sorry, I don't understand who signed the text - but in both cases it is indication of an insecure woman. Don't focus on what they are doing or not doing, focus on your own personal growth and change so that you become an increasingly interesting and attractive woman.

6:51 Pelagius: All, I confess, I am so impatient. I want patience, and by golly I want it NOW!

6:51 vsingh: stead: My mil always complained about me, but she is scared of ow

6:51 Pelagius: Night faithfull!

6:51 vsingh: cricket: oh, I see

6:51 Cricket2: Pelagius - We've all been there - wanting patience NOW, I understand completely.

6:52 Rollercoasterider: Anita @ 6:48: No I’m not saying your MLCer has an OW. I’m saying he might already and if not he might get one...or not. But if this is MLC the odds are sadly toward infidelity. Why do you think he's in MLC?

6:52 anita180: roller - I have a marriage coun. appt with him this Wed. 1st time

6:52 vsingh: Jim: h told his mom that if she makes ow's life miserable she is out with me, he told me I am

6:56 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: vsingh: remember not to worry about the family squabbles - those things only make you more unhappy.

6:52 Pelagius: vsingh @ 6:51 and steadfast, my MIL loves me very much, and wants me to divorce him, hoping it will bring him low, to rock bottom. I explained that such a thing is not in my power...it is hard not to try to please her. She seems so punitive....

6:52 Cricket2: Vsingh - You know the things your H hates to do and the fact that the OW is dragging him to do these things will build up & it will all come tumbling down in time.

6:52 Pelagius: vsingh and steadfast @ 6:51, still, she prays for us, I know.

6:53 Pelagius: Vsingh, you are really SO amazing....you stay so calm and pulled together.

6:53 Lia: Pel 6:51 I've learned stop praying for more of that fruit, be careful what you ask for the other name for patience is LONG SUFFERING!!!!! ha, ha!

6:53 anita180: I am not sure if he is - I wanted to gain some insight, so yoli told me about this site

6:53 Rollercoasterider: Anita: Good. Did he suggest counseling, did you and is he going to placate you or help you accept his leaving or ...what are his reasons?

6:53 vsingh: Pel: God is my source of strength. Credit goes to God

6:53 Pelagius: Good Lord, girls, if we survive this, it makes me think we can survive anything...but do you think we'll ever be tested on that!!! I might fail!

6:53 steadfast: Jim: All that I can do is pray for her. I certainly don't trust her. mil. She is probably still saying negative things about me even though we are apart. It's so sad

6:57 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: steadfast: she is attempting to continually make you look bad. That's why you need to keep focused on continuing become a wonderful woman.

6:54 Pelagius: Lia @ 6;53 - LOL! You've come a long way, woman! I don't hear the panic in you I used to hear. You're standing on some solid ground. You totally rock!

6:54 Brin2: TiredB, How are you doing now?

6:54 Lia: Jim to V @ 6:51 You think H's doing so much for ow & with ow & having much lower expectations is to impress the ow & to thumb noses @ us in rebellion as well?

6:58 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lia: it's very important that you not focus on all of these questions, but rather keep focus on building your relationship with God and your own personal growth.

6:54 Cricket2: Jim -ALSO Is it good that I’m following my h's lead in giving him space since he's sent Friend only msg. I’m still friendly, but doing my own thing more & waiting for him to invite me or call me to do things. I’m keeping busy on my own until he asks

6:54 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:53, I know. I have looked some ugly stuff in my life square in the face and owned it. There's no point working on me if I don't tangle with all the nasties.

6:59 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Pelagius: you are right on target - I’m proud of you.

6:55 Rollercoasterider: Anita @ 6:53: Well let's look at some things. Have there been any significant changes in your lives in the last 2 years or so--deaths, births, moves, job changes? Any new exercise habits, wardrobe changes, weight loss? Increase in vanity?

6:55 tlt: Jim- I read a book titled "His Needs, Her Needs, How to Affair-Proof Your marriage. It is good, but was sad to see that it says my H will always love OW. Is that true? I don't know if I can live with that, knowing my H will always love someone else. It said that we can have a better marriage than ever before. It has gotten much better, but I hate to think he will always be in love with OW no matter how good it gets between us.

7:00 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: tlt: no - your husband will not always be in love with the other woman. remember that midlife crisis is much like the teenage years - the boys that you fell in love with as a teenager may not be the kind of man that you admire now that you are at midlife -- your husband will outgrow this fantasy relationship.

6:55 anita180: rollerc-my depression about things ie, he had lunched with ex-secretary all last summer. both say they are innocent-her husband wrote to mine saying that his wife told him when she was seeing my H for lunches, my in-laws are over bearing, etc...

6:55 Rollercoasterider: Anita con't: Has he seemed irritable, angry, depressed, withdrawn...any of these, not necessarily all?

6:56 Pelagius: I do think I need to part with a circle of friends that my h wasn't particularly happy with (either because of his MLC or because he was picking up vibes from them I am unaware of). They work at the university where I do. Haven't seen (cont)

6:56 Brin2: Pel@6:54, I love that attitude. That's the way to go - healthy for healing.

6:56 Cricket2: Lia - Now you know where I got it...Jim telling you not to focus on OW or H's actions but on your growth. I know I’m a broken record saying that, but Jim taught me well & I pass on his advice.

6:56 anita180: rollerc-we own a company-finances were tight, he had trouble sleeping because of that

6:56 Lia: Pel, re: from Jim @ 6:53 I’m really seeing how in order for us to be their helpers as God wanted, we need perfected before them, esp. because how low & how lost they became. How can we help if we are lost too & still hurt

6:56 Pelagius: (cont) them in a year, but Friday, a bunch of them were saying my h doesn't deserve me. I don't need that from them, and if he was picking up on it from a couple of them (one is particularly arrogant...another was particularly prescient - he (cont)

6:57 TiredB2: Brin: I M doing ok...... still processing the ick..... the confusion....... but trying to be loving and affirmative.......... my gut instincts always get the best of me........ it’s time for me to find my path and let God work in him........

6:57 Pelagius: (cont) saw it coming before I knew there was a problem, but his wife had been through MLC)....so I pray for new circles of friends for us.

6:57 Rollercoasterider: Anita: TO warn you, when the facilitator closes the chat it will just POOF disappear. The window will suddenly close! It won't be until after 7, and probably close to 7:05 or 7:10, but just to warn you

6:57 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:57, that's good advice for me too; I know OW badmouths me...

6:57 vsingh: Jim: I know that h's family also took advantage of the Indian culture in which women are suppressed and submissive. H's family can't do that to ow. I've let them go. Maybe they will all learn how good I was.

7:03 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: vsingh: I’m sure that all of you coming from an Indian culture affected their behavior towards you. I’m hoping that they will come to see that they perhaps treated you inappropriately - as well as your husband treating you wrongly.

6:57 Cricket2: Tlt - We have several in our group who's H's came home & restored their marriages. They say it took a year or two for H to break connection or get over OW but they did. They will get over the OW, but it takes time for them to see the truth.

6:57 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Grace2, Sorry you couldn’t join us earlier in the hour. Although we’re about to end today’s chat session, you can read the past chats in the archives. If you have a pressing question for Jim and can’t wait until the next chat session with him, then you might consider scheduling a phone counseling session with Jim. See www.midlife.com for phone counseling information, or contact us at 714-768-1777 or This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. for information.

6:58 TiredB2: Brin I called today and his phone answered no voice on the other end..... then it hung up..... He told me it wasn’t him.......he didn’t answer was in another room......hmmmmmm funny huh

6:58 anita180: roolerc-he had all of those conditions. he told me he wanted to go to a marriage counselor, because I was so depressed from other stuff. others could make me smile, he really could not

6:58 steadfast: Jim: Good point. Thanks.

6:58 anita180: roller - I guess and know it is partly my fault

6:58 Lia: Pel 6:54 Thanks so much, I need that! Still have lots people think I’m crazy & to move on, still have nasty enemy pushing my buttons & messing with my heart & mind, but this momma & this wife’s claws are ready to come out or retract as needed

6:59 grace2: Thanks Jim! Just a quick pop in to shout out hello!!

6:59 Rollercoasterider: Anita: The ex-secretary may have been an emotional affair--keep your watch out for signs

6:59 anita180: all-thanks

6:59 Brin2: TiredB@6:57, Letting God work in him is the best thing you can do for him. God does need us to surrender and for us to trust Him to fix it. Do you have a good Church to be involved in?

6:59 anita180: brin2-amen

7:00 Swanlake: Goodnight all, see you later this week.

7:00 Pelagius: tot, I can totally relate to your concern about h always loving the OW. Seems so unfair. I have known some women who say their h's LOATHE the OW. Ow! How about, just , well, being neutral...

7:00 vsingh: good night all

7:00 Lia: Jim 6:54 OW signed them insecurity makes sense to me yeah!!!! I still wonder what will make H interested as he so needed & expected stability from me & actually tried squash fun side of me & constantly tried change me as he needed now ow is fun

7:00 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:59, thanks. Had to deal with serious stuff beyond the surface, the weight, etc. Had to forgive myself and let go.

7:00 Rollercoasterider: Anita: His choices are NOT NOT NOT your fault. BUT as you are aware, you are not perfect.

7:01 anita180: roller - I said it was an emotional affair, but he said no. I’m right to say that, hence my depression

7:01 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Before anyone logs out, I want to thank you all for coming. Please come again and invite your friends! Remember; the Sun./Wed./Fri./Sat. sessions are open to share and encourage each other, with the assistance of our trained facilitators.. The Mon. session is primarily a Q and A time with me in the room. Chat room hours are: Sunday, Wednesday and Friday: 6-7 pm Pacific Time, Saturday is 1-2 pm PST. Monday (live chat with me): 6-7 pm Pacific Time.

7:01 steadfast: Jim: Thank you for your wisdom tonight in answering all of our questions

7:01 TiredB2: Brin@659 .... I do have a good church ...... just work every 3rd Sunday..... so I don’t go as much as I should........ but I have a gal I meet with a lot.

7:01 grace2: tlt: I am one whose h returned home. It will be 3 yrs in Sept of his return. Hang in there. Ow is a band aid. Eventually it falls off. God will handle it.

7:01 Cricket2: Pelagius - I'd spend time with friends that are supportive of you although I wouldn't discuss your situation any more than you have to. If they are too negative, they bring you down too. Friends with healthy supportive attitude are great.

7:01 Brin2: TiredB@6:58, Yes, that is strange... Don't analyze it too much or let it bother you too much.

7:01 Pelagius: Thanks all. God Bless you. Hang in each and every one!

7:01 TiredB2: Brin////// It was so good too to hear my friend say she had seen my growth.

7:01 anita180: roller - she loved our sons, I told her to stay away from my family. this made her cry. did this on an email

7:02 Pelagius: Cricket2, thanks!

7:02 Rollercoasterider: Anita: I think it was an emotional affair. Now, about him making/not making you smile. Does he feel responsible for your happiness? DO you feel he is responsible for making you happy?

7:02 Pelagius: Cricket, can I be like you when I grow up? LOL! ;)

7:02 Pelagius: Cricket, that wasn't ENTIRELY a joke.

7:03 Pelagius: Swan, goodnight!

7:03 Brin2: TiredB@7:01, Glad you have a church family and a GF to share stuff with, and encourage you on...

7:03 Cricket2: Pelagius - LOL - Thanks much, but I learned so much from wonderful ladies here. They were my angels so I’m so glad to pay it forward. You are doing so well, you should be proud of yourself.

7:03 anita180: I make my own happiness, I believe happiness is an inside job. I just knew he was lying to me. I found out something was up in an email on his phone in August-H said he did not hear from her in months. Liar

7:03 Pelagius: Okay, all, I’m logging out. Anita, hang in.

7:04 Rollercoasterider: Anita: You did the right thing. IT's tough and the affair partners do not understand the our 'problem' if it is non-sexual. But contact needs to be cut off completely

7:04 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Thanks everyone for being in the chat room today. If you got lost during the chat process, check back later to find the edited chat dialogue posted in the archives, there you can read it at your own pace. It's been fun talking with you today. We, at Midlife Dimensions, will remember you and your marriages in prayer throughout the week. Warmly in Christ, Jim.

7:04 Pelagius: Thanks Cricket. TiredB2, serious hugs sent your way...

7:04 steadfast: Yes Cricket I feel the same way and swan too (re Pel's comment at 7:02)

7:04 anita180: Pelagius-thanks!

7:04 Brin2: All, So nice to see so many of you here tonight. Hope you have a good week. Talk to you on Fri.

7:04 anita180: All, thanks

7:05 anita180: roller - I love you

7:05 Lia: Jim as far as father's day I got a lot drinks & snacks for H's racing season from kids & card from each. He doesn't see our youngest because she won't see ow & H won't give in & see str alone either. Thought about giving them money for brkfst w/H too?

7:05 LisaK [Administrator]: Tkctwbd - Welcome. Is this your first time tonight?

7:05 Rollercoasterider: Anita @ 7:03 good, that's what I was hoping you would say about happiness

7:05 Cricket2: Anita - If they didn't care about hurting us, they wouldn't lie. They are just very confused and messed up emotionally so they feel trapped & lie to us.

7:05 steadfast: Goodnight all and have a blessed week in the Lord!

7:05 TiredB2: Jim @ 704 lost..... it moves so fast on Mondays you have to keep up...... thanks for being there to help us along.

7:05 anita180: rollerc-your help was needed

7:05 Tkctwbd: Yes! my name means Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done.

7:06 TiredB2: Pelagius........ we are welcome....... Have a great week.

7:06 tkctwbd: I know Anita!

7:06 tkctwbd: she's my prayer warrior

7:06 LisaK [Administrator]: Tkctwbd - great name!

7:06 Rollercoasterider: Anita: that's so sweet! I love you too...and the rest of you too!

7:06 anita180: Cricket-we spoke b4?right?yeah-they are confused and convicted

7:07 tkctwbd: what time will this chat close?

7:07 Lia: Lisa, Cricket, Jo per ? to Jim @ 7:05 is brkst with kids too much besides gift?

7:07 TiredB2: God Bless night all.

7:07 LisaK [Administrator]: tkctwbd - glad that you have a friend here. Keep coming - and soon you'll have lots of great friends.

7:07 anita180: all thanks everyone

7:07 Lia: Welcome Grace & tkctwbd! & tlt

7:07 Rollercoasterider: tkctwbd: any second now

7:08 LisaK [Administrator]: "My soul is weary with sorrow; strengthen me according to your word" (Psalm 119:28).

7:08 Rollercoasterider: Anita: see you again!

7:08 tkctwbd: I'll come another time. had to put the kids to bed.

7:08 Cricket2: Anita - Yes I help on some other chats. My H divorced the OW and has been reconnecting with me. He's opening up more about how things weren't at all as they seemed. He wasn't really happy with OW even thou claimed he was

7:08 LisaK [Administrator]: Lord, help us in our decision-making. Let us not lean not upon our own understanding, but in all our ways acknowledge you. Lord, help us to see beyond our circumstances into your presence, and help us to see our situations the way that you do – full of possibilities. Thank you for your love and understanding. In Jesus' Name, Amen.

7:09 Jo2: Lia - breakfast with kids is very appropriate. They should be included, this is not their fault. The gift should be suitable as from kids.

7:09 Cricket2: Goodnight all - Lisa thanks so much for your work. I know it was hectic for a while but you handled it great as always.

7:09 Rollercoasterider: All: Okay, gotta go tell my Mom it's time to get Gram ready for Monday night church--Gram goes when there are less crowd--fear of falling

7:10 Lia: All we have keep saying PTL for stories like crickets & remember to keep those in process of restoration held up in prayer too! Wish there was magic wand that fixed it all in instant! That or a glass slipper!

7:10 Jo2: Good night all. Blessings until Wed. 6PM Pacific.

7:10 LisaK [Administrator]: Time to close ladies. Thanks for coming in tonight.

7:11 LisaK [Administrator]:
For a list of media recommendations by Jim Conway, Midlife Dimensions, Lisa Kahan, and our Chat Room Facilitators, please visit Amazon via our special link: http://astore.amazon.com/midlife-20. Amazon sends a donation to the non-profit ministry of Midlife Dimensions anytime an order is placed via our link. We hope you enjoy the various lists of recommendations and thank you for supporting Midlife Dimensions through Amazon.

June 8, 2009 / With Jim Conway

5:56 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Good evening all, Jim will be with us shortly, he is, however, without Lisa to type for him, therefore, please be patient as he answers your questions.

5:58 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Micah 6:8 - No, O people, the LORD has told you what is good, and this is what he requires of you: to do what is right, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.

6:01 Pelagius: Hello all!

6:02 Pelagius: Thanks for being here tonight!

6:02 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Hello Pelagius, glad you have joined us tonight.

6:02 Pelagius: Swan, I LOVE this verse from Micah. I made it into a plaque for my nephew to hang on his dorm room wall.

6:03 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: I’m very glad to be with you tonight. I haven’t chatted with some of you for a few weeks now. You probably know that Jan and I are in transition from our winter teaching location in Kona, Hawaii, to our summer ministry location in northern Michigan. We are making several stops as we move from Hawaii to Michigan. We left Kona on May 21, and we will be in Michigan by June 22. So right now we are living out of suitcases -- but we are having a great time visiting with some of the students be taught in Kona -- they are working with the Crow Indian Tribe in Southern Montana. Along the way we are also having the joy of sharing with two of our granddaughters who are graduating from high school -- one in Boise, Idaho, and the other in Seattle, Washington. Unfortunately, the Monday chat room time has frequently been a time when we have been traveling from one place to another. So that’s enough about what’s been happening with us the last few weeks, what’s going on with you & what would you like to talk about?

6:03 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Hi Jim, we thank you for the blessing of this chat place and that you give of yourself to us each Monday.

6:03 Pelagius: Before everyone arrives, I'll ask Jim a quick question. Jim, my h filed for divorce, an uncontested divorce. I can agree with him over the settlement agreement and we will have the divorce over with quickly.

6:04 Pelagius: I’m inclined to do that, because I don't think a prolonged bout is a good idea. A lawyer would strain my finances, and I think I need to just let him get on with what he thinks is good for HIM. I expect he'll marry OW shortly thereafter, (cont)

6:04 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: Swanlake, I’m so glad that you are so willing to serve people -- and especially to help me this evening when Lisa is not able to be with us.

6:04 Pelagius: (cont) which will break my heart, but I am resigned to this being a long drawn-out process, and he must get OW out of his system.

6:05 Pelagius: Jim, thanks, with all that is going on in your own life, for being here with us and helping us like this. I take great comfort from getting advice and input from someone who has actually been through a mid-life crisis.

6:05 Pelagius: And your credentials also give me comfort.

6:05 Pelagius: I hope everything is okay for Lisa!

6:06 Pelagius: Congratulations, Jim, on your granddaughters' graduations! Spring is always a busy time with such celebrations!

6:06 Pelagius: Hi faithfull!

6:06 Pelagius: I like your name!

6:06 faithfull: Hello everyone sorry late but went out to supper with my son and daughter

6:07 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Pelagius - there are many of us here who can be of great support for you if he does marry the other woman. I can assure you from experience that there will come a day, it will even sneak up on you and the pain will begin to lessen and for me as I drew closer to God during that time, He gave me a peace that I cannot begin to describe.

6:07 Pelagius: Swan @ 6:07, I monitored our court system website daily, knowing that h would succumb to the pressure OW was putting on him, and file. The day I saw, it, June 1, I honestly felt such peace...like I was going to have a break!

6:08 faithfull: Jim, today my husband came to pick up the kids. He gave me a hug and on his way out he told me he loved me. I ask if he was just saying out of costume or did he mean it. He just shrugged his shoulder and smile. What do you think

6:09 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: faithfull: I think he was trying to communicate something to you -- that he really cares for you. But remember, don't ask eyes questions like this -- it's better just to say, "That really felt good."

6:08 Pelagius: Hi RCR! How are you and your grandmother, your mom, and your Sweetheart (I love that you call him that!).

6:08 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: 6:06 Pelagius: it is very exciting to see your children and grandchildren continuing to progress in life. But the most exciting thing to me is that each one of my children, their mates, and all of their children know Jesus Christ personally.

6:08 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Pelagius - Lisa is doing wonderfully and will be back with us next week.

6:09 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:08, such great comfort in that! my h and I had a difficult conversation about the divorce Friday. He said he was not coming home. I said ever? never? He got quiet. That evening at 11, I got a sweet good-night text from him, well, as sweet as it gets under the circumstances. He used my pet name and a sign off we have to show affection. Some friends have asked me if OW sent it just to play with my head! My h changes course 100 times a day!

6:12 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: Pelagius: No one is trying to play with your head. Just accept his texts for what they said. Remember that he is very confused -- the threat of divorce is just a way to let you know that he needs space.

6:10 Pelagius: Swan @ 6:08, thanks!

6:10 Rollercoasterider: Pel: Hi! I’m home with Sweetheart today. He's got a corn on his foot and so he's limping. We just bought moleskin.

6:11 faithfull: He also said I was doing very good the last few weeks about not bringing up the issues and I could text him if I kept it light. Should I text me maybe occasionally

6:11 Pelagius: Jim @6:08, I replied, using our sign-off, but came very close to not replying. I am trying to limit contact with him. The divorce filing, while it is some resolution to this situation, is very hurtful. In my mind, it meant I might not be able to continue standing.

6:11 Rollercoasterider: Jim: I've got a couple of questions for you tonight. I'll start my first question next.

6:11 Pelagius: RCR @ 6:10, ouch, those are painful!!!

6:11 TiredB2: good evening all

6:11 Rollercoasterider: 1. Jim: When a person experiences midlife transition but not at crisis levels, are the stages the same? is there Replay? A person in MLT may feel loss and be depressed. MLT is a milder experience and a joy for many. But for those who are depressed, Replay in MLCers brings the repressed and suppressed issues to the surface. When or if there is no Replay, what can be done to bring those issues to the surface so that he may get through his depression? [End]

6:15 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: Rollercoasterider: Each person going through a midlife transition -- whether with a crisis or not -- will experience different levels of each stage. Also remember that people bounce back and forth between the stages. Your focus should not so much be on what stage the person is in, rather focus on one of the positive things I can do to meet this person needs.

6:11 Pelagius: TiredB2!!! Hi! How are you? Feeling better than last week?

6:12 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Hello Cricket, tiredB and summer69, how are you tonight?

6:12 Pelagius: Summer69, hi. Are you new?

6:12 Cricket2: Hi all - Good to see everyone.

6:12 summer69: Pelagius I was on last Sunday

6:13 TiredB2: Swan: I love that verse....... we actually have a song from camp for that verse.......

6:13 Pelagius: RCR @ 6:12, my h is SO in replay! He is working out issues with the really cruel and mean woman he was married to; this OW is her mirror image!

6:13 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Welcome vsingh

6:13 Pelagius: Hi vsingh!

6:13 vsingh: Hello all

6:13 Pelagius: Nice to meet you, summer. Sorry I wasn't in on Sunday. I forgot about Sunday night chats, actually! And I was sick ALL weekend!

6:13 Rollercoasterider: Pel: I made a deliberate decision to call him Sweetheart as an affirmation, a reminder that he is Sweetheart...since so many will come up with negative names: pea-brain

6:14 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Hey Tamashii, hope you are doing good tonight?

6:14 Pelagius: Tamashii! Did you get any pot roast recipes. RCR @ 6:13, I still call my h sweetie and honey.

6:14 Pelagius: Tamashii, did you find your sunglasses? LOL!!

6:14 Rollercoasterider: Pel: cont'd: Some used to abbreviate Sweetheart as SH when posting to me...I knew what they meant and did not acknowledge it!

6:14 vsingh: Jim: since h is married to ow, and I get this "ha ha in your face attitude from them" I avoid them, is that best even it be my son's school function

6:17 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: vsingh: Sometimes it seems to me that you are unnecessarily putting your hand into the fire. Generally it is better to go on and build your life around your other friends, family, and your son. Develop your own interests which are different than what you had when you were married.

6:14 Pelagius: Tamashii, I had a student in my office once, and I was looking for my glasses, so I could read his degree report. He laughed and said, Mrs. XXXX, they're on your head!

6:15 Cricket2: Jim - Past 4 wks, my H has pulled back & making it clear we're "just friends". OW did pass him driving & waved, he said she seemed friendly & was happy about it. Also friends had been pushing him to move fwd w/me. Feel both contribute to pull back.

6:19 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: Cricket2: This is just some of the temporary feelings as he gradually moves back toward you. His comment the other woman seeming friendly, it's positive because he now doesn't feel so guilty about having messed up her life -- as well as yours

6:15 Pelagius: RCR @ 6:14, he has a pet name he uses for me, and I've started using it back to him.

6:16 Pelagius: vsingh, I worry that OW is taking great pleasure in my pain.

6:16 vsingh: Jim:@6:14, I feel ow watches him like hawk

6:20 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: vsingh: eventually that will become very painful to your former husband -- but again put your concentration on other people.

6:16 Pelagius: Jim, I think that no matter the mistakes I make, I believe my h knows I love him and want the best for him. He has always been a very forgiving man.

6:16 summer69: Jim, at what point do you finally know to give up and accept that he has moved on

6:23 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: summer69: Moving on is dependent on many factors. Probably the most important factor is the leadership of God in your life. When the time is right, you will have a deep, and settled peace that it's okay to move on -- but wait for that deep calm from God. Have you read our book entitled, "Moving on after he moves out"?

6:16 vsingh: Pel: these other women are messed up

6:16 Pelagius: vsingh @ 6:16, same here! I think she uses his phone and reads his texts if he doesn't delete them.

6:21 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: Pelagius: Your insight is probably very true -- and that is positive for your future.

6:17 Cricket2: Jim - H's been taking a real interest in fixing up his home, bought new pool table & other things. He's made comments to friend about how much he's enjoying his home. He'd never lived alone before. He's spending money more but still really tired. I have felt he needed time to learn to live on his own & for healing. Supposedly he's made some comment to friend he doesn't feel attracted to me. Friend was complimentary of me & pointed out bother guys find me attractive. Defensive reaction?

6:26 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: Cricket2: Again, all of his actions seem to be very ordinary for the recovery process. Remember, he is not going to be too positive to friends about you -- until he has moved farther in this process. It's very hard for women to remember that men don't talk to their friends the way women share their feelings with friends -- he's a guy!

6:17 Pelagius: vsingh @ 6:16, they sure are. If they have to control someone to keep them, ...? That's why I am not fighting him on the divorce.

6:17 vsingh: pel: I back away so she may feel I moved on

6:17 Pelagius: vsingh @ 6:17, me too.

6:17 vsingh: pel: her true colors will show

6:18 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Pelagius - in all honestly we usually give more credit to the other person than is deserved, they actually rarely think about us in their decisions, as well as the pain we might be feeling. They are human and regardless of how messed up they might be, they would prefer to believe that they are not hurting anyone and they often convince themselves of that lie.

6:18 Tamashii: ALL: I wish they were on my head! looking for a pot roast recipe. Respond via email, so we don't take up more important space here.

6:18 Rollercoasterider: Jim 6:15: Thank you, but if there is not Replay behaviour in a person, how do the repressed and suppressed issues surface?

6:27 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: Rollercoasterider: Sometimes the replay process is very internalized -- hard for anyone to see on the outside.

6:18 TiredB2: Pelagius..... I am much better...... still cannot get my head and heart around the accusation but I am doing better. There is very little good communication these days...... but I just feel grateful that there is any at all'

6:19 Pelagius: summer69 @ 6:16, I like your question. sometimes I feel I won't be ready for a reconciliation, should it come, until I have been able to completely let go. Sometimes I think God won't bring my h back if I hold on too tightly myself. (cont)

6:19 TiredB2: Is Lisa under the weather.......

6:19 TiredB2: Pelagius: explain your take on replay to me would you?

6:20 Pelagius: (cont) but then I am afraid. Swan @ 6:18, thanks.

6:20 Cricket2: Tamashii - I didn't see your pot roast email until a little while ago so just forwarded it to the group.

6:20 vsingh: Jim: I agree my struggle is my parents, they come from the old country India, and this is a stigma and disgrace for them and they don't want to tell rest of my family or their friends. I want this burden lifted. Divorce is a huge thing in India. Soc

6:29 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: vsingh: I realize that this is a giant sociological stigma for your parents. But, let me say this gently, you must not take responsibility for your parent’s feelings. You certainly should express care and concern, but you cannot take their pain upon you.

6:20 Tamashii: Crick: Thank Yew!

6:20 Pelagius: TiredB2 @ 6:19, my understanding of reply, and Jim can correct me if I’m wrong, is that the MLCer revisits some element of the past, to try to redo it. This OW has a 4-year-old, and my h told me that even if he stays until the child is 18, he (cont)

6:21 Pelagius: (cont) is not the child's father, and can have no real positive input given the current situation, that is, the mother is erratic and the father is resentful that he has a son, has joint custody, and has to pay child support. My h needs to (cont)

6:22 Rollercoasterider: Summer69 @6:16: Standing Down is a personal decision. Some choose to never stand down even when it is clear to even them that their spouse will not return. It is about what you want.

6:22 faithfull: Jim what advise can you give Dr Dobson in “love must be tough” stated to not communicate with H only if it relates to kid.

6:32 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: faithfull: Dr. Dobson and I are good friends. sometimes, he is so concerned about helping you out of your pain -- that his statements, when taken out of that context, seemed to be very black-and-white. I have found that the children provide a good connection -- when mates are having trouble. This gives you an opportunity to let him see how you are growing and changing. He can see the stability and gentleness in your life -- but at the same time he will be able to observe that you are not a controlling dictatorial mother type.

6:22 Cricket2: Jim - His pull back from me seemed to happen about time he saw her & she reacted friendly instead of angry in the past. She was the last to shut the door on him. Recently friend said he's justifying her behavior, seeing more positives in OW I know there is a process in their really breaking free from OW's hold on them & I’m sure some of this is the journey he has to make to work all the way thru the tunnel. I’m giving him space, letting him initiate calls & keeping busy on my own

6:34 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: Cricket2: You are absolutely right that this is a process. If he only disconnects from the other woman because she is angry with him -- then he may not fully reconnect with you. So this process is a very important and necessary time.

6:22 summer69: all, do you fight to stop the divorce or do you just allow them to have it

6:22 Pelagius: (cont) be needed, and be a savior, but he is seeing that this child is not his, and he can't make up for the circumstances.

6:22 Lia: Jim: Why is it so easy for our H's to share or do most of household chores with ow & my dtr & here, nobody else ever chipped in

6:35 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: Lia: He is busy trying to impress the other woman -- he still doesn't like to do housework

6:23 Pelagius: summer69 @ 6:22, I’m struggling with the same issue. I would like more financial security out of the divorce, but I don't want to fight him. Dr. Wheat says many women refuse divorce and their h's thank them. But my h has been (cont)

6:23 Pelagius: (cont) banging the divorce drum since February!

6:24 Pelagius: Summer69, I sometimes think he wants the divorce so he can relieve some of his guilt. But his actions have already taken place.

6:24 Pelagius: Summer, I TRY to move on, but I just hear the voice of God say wait, wait, wait.

6:24 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Pelagius - so often a person in MLC needs to be a rescuer and it sounds like he is more in this relationship to rescue the son than to be with the mother. There maybe something in this boy that he relates to. Just remember when speaking to your husband that this boy, nor the other woman are you enemy, even with what is happening right now. Satan doesn't only attack our spouses, but the other persons too. I would say if you don't already to add them to your prayer list, sounds like they need someone praying for them.

6:25 summer69: Jim, I have read that book and all of your books how did the woman in the book know to move on

6:36 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: summer69: she came to a deep confidence from God that it was time to move on. God gave her peace that she had done all she could -- that her conscience was clean, and she could move on. If people try to move on to quickly -- without God's peace -- they generally will have more struggles in the months and years to come.

6:25 Rollercoasterider: Summer69 @6:22: Sorry, but that too is a personal decision that differs with circumstances. I refused to sign any papers and contested. But Pel is today talking about how she doesn't feel that will be best in her situation.

6:25 Pelagius: Today is my h's birthday. I wanted to text him, send him an email...but he didn't contact me on mine in April, OR on Mother's Day.

6:25 Lia: Jim or anyone else. Today I found out my H was taking ow to a beautiful casino & hotel for a food show that we went to with our bus. partners 3 years ago, He knew for over mo. & just called today to ask if he could switch night for kids I had plans, to avoid being used & his convenience as I've been our whole life. Wrong or not?

6:39 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: Lia: Please be very careful not to let anger and resentment eat you up on the inside. I understand that you feel very used, every person who is going through this kind of marriage pain knows that this process is very unfair -- and sometimes each one of us feel as if we want to quit. Please don't let yourself be overtaken by these negative feelings.

6:25 faithfull: summer I also have wanted to just give in and ended it all but God keeps telling me to wait. So I am going to obey until he tells me otherwise

6:25 TiredB2: Jim: my h accused me of involving myself with the ow again..... I have not and want nothing to do with the situation. I asked a few why questions..... and now he is very withdrawn from me. says I deserve better.... very sparse in communication .

6:41 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: TiredB2: Your husband probably has received misinformation -- probably the other woman made some remarks which he misinterpreted. His comment about you deserving better is an expression of his care for you -- even though it is a bit perverted.

6:25 vsingh: Pelagius: Happy Birthday

6:26 Cricket2: Pelagius - Don't react based on if he recognized your b-day or M-day. You can still send him a light or cute H-Bay text. You would a good friend, think of it that way

6:26 TiredB2: Pelagius: do you communicate with your h..... if so.... a simple non romantic Happy Birthday is not too much

6:26 Pelagius: Swan @ 6:24, you hit the nail on the head. I knew that the last step in MY journey was going to be my ability to pray for her. She says she needs my h because her son does. That absolves her guilt. I am just not there YET. Her sister is (cont)

6:26 Rollercoasterider: Pel @ 6:23 Notice your 'but' in there. The affect is that it negates your previous statement. You reference Dr. Wheat and then give a reason why it may not be true in your circumstances. [cont'd]

6:26 summer69: Pelagius, I think you are right. he knows that he is wrong and hopes that one day I will forgive him, so I think divorce in his mind will make it all okay when it comes to OW

6:27 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Pelagius - if you keep hearing the voice of God saying to wait, rather than moving "on" move forward with your life, get involved in Christian activities, hobbies, etc. that you will enjoy but will help you to not focus so much on your husband and when it is God's time, He will bring your husband to the place you are.

6:27 Rollercoasterider: Pel cont'd: I see that so often. Most LBSs go through a period where within an MLC context they feel their MLC circumstances are the exception. Most woman feel as you do. February is not a long time ago

6:27 Cricket2: Jim - THANKS - Usually we have to have Tamashii explain the Guy Type Thinking process... He's great at translating these things for us...

6:42 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: Cricket2: I’m glad that I can explain some of these "guy things". I’m very proud of you -- and grateful for all you contribute to so many lives.

6:28 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Hello Lia, glad you are here tonight.

6:29 Cricket2: Pelagius - I agree with Swan - I've done so many things I never thought I'd be able to do. It has been so good for my self esteem and making me appreciate this time. It doesn't have to be wasted time (mlc), it can be very satisfying

6:29 TiredB2: vsingh : I hope I did not go overboard the other day......

6:29 Pelagius: RCR @ 6:27, thanks for that explanation. Now that he has filed, I am forced to respond, or he will get a default judgment. Swan @ 6:27, I am very busy moving on. I teach next fall, so I preparing my class and proposing my dissertation.

6:29 summer69: all, is it normal for husband not to call and check on the children or talk to them during the week

6:30 Rollercoasterider: Jim: 6:27: so Replay is present in a non crisis transition too?

6:43 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: Rollercoasterider: Yes, in fact there are many stages along through adult life when we see people replaying earlier stages in their minds

6:30 faithfull: summer my husband does not he will text my oldest daughter but that is all

6:30 vsingh: Jim:6:29 yes, I told my parents at least we can say we are separate due to problems. My parents said they have never seen such a thing

6:45 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: vsingh: you are doing a good job of being patient with your parents -- they are in the process of learning about a very painful thing called divorce. Sometimes it would be helpful to remind them that there are bad marriages in India where men act very similarly by having affairs with other women -- even though they stay married

6:30 Pelagius: RCR @ 6:27, say more, if you would? Do you think I should continue to resist the divorce? In many ways, I am slowly realizing the course of his MLC is inexorable, a journey that only he is on, and what I do in the way of standing in front (cont)

6:31 Pelagius: (cont) of it doesn't really have much effect on the outcome.

6:32 summer69: Pelagius, how long has he been away

6:32 Lia: Sorry, dtr accidentally disconnected

6:32 Rollercoasterider: Pel: I can only tell you what I would do. I was insistent. I didn't want to lose my house or anything, but was willing to go that far. Of course, my situation did not even approach that danger. I would [cont'd]

6:32 Rollercoasterider: Pel cont'd: resist, but I’m pretty firm and stubborn. What are you willing to risk. Your threshold for risk and for a bluff may be lower than mine

6:33 Lia: Anyone care to comment on 6:25! My H seems to give up time with kids anytime it doesn't suit him or ow & then expects me to change schedules so he can court her I've really been doing well giving up anger, but now I feel used again, it's too much

6:34 Pelagius: summer69, he moved out into an apartment last July. They worked together. She deliberately got fired, she doesn't like to work, and though he would support her. Instead, he quit his job (told her it was in protest, told me he didn't want to (cont)

6:34 faithfull: Jim believe me, God has humbled me. I was not very submissive and quick to get upset. It is way out of my nature not to scream when he is around, but God has given me such a quiet and humble spirit when he is around and I do not react easily.

6:47 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: faithfull: I’m very proud of you for letting this painful process help you in your personal growth. But remember that your husband will not believe your changes at first -- so be patient as you wait for him to trust you

6:34 Rollercoasterider: Jim: I'll post my next [unrelated] question next.

6:34 Rollercoasterider: 2. Jim: I've seen a few occasions of at-home MLCers who take an 'MLC vacation' if their spouse becomes seriously ill. What gives a depressed person the ability to put aside the depression like this and then put it back on when he is not needed? It is a real thing that happens, but spouses who experience begin the feel the MLCer can control his depression and would be out of crisis if he wanted to be out. [End]

6:50 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: Rollercoasterider: some people deal with depression by deliberately having a Disneyland experience. While they are in their Disneyland attitude, they seemed to be very different people. But remember that the Disneyland attitude only covers up the pain and depression that they really feel. In fact, as the person continues to use the Disneyland experiences to escape their pain -- they are in fact being driven more deeply into depression. Also, the person who lives in this divided world, gradually becomes a divided person -- Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

6:34 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Pelagius - when a person is sinking in their own lives and it appears dark, without hope and then someone else does something that gives them a glimmer of hope, they tend to grab onto them, holding so tightly. It sounds like this woman got a glimmer in your husband dealing with her son. Sadly just like a person who is drowning and grasping for anything to lift them us, they usually end up dragging that thing down with them. Sometimes, our spouses have to hit rock bottom before they can begin to deal with their own issues and lift themselves up. In MLC, they don't know why or what is happening to them, anything or anyone who can help them forget their own pain and make them feel worthy, the gravitate to. They don't want to be cruel, but they honestly cannot seem to think beyond themselves during this time. Believe it or not, his relationship with this boy and his mother is more about what your husband is getting out of it than them.

6:34 vsingh: Lia: They are very selfish during this time

6:34 Rollercoasterider: Jim cont'd: They then return to their crisis once their services are not needed. The poor spouse during this thinks their behaviour is a sign they are coming out of MLC. [cont'd]

6:35 Pelagius: (cont) roped into supporting her. So he lost the apartment at the end of December, and he moved in with her. He came home every month for a long weekend, until May. He called her a horrible name on the phone the other day, so I hope he is tiring of the situation.

6:36 Lia: Jim my H still refuses to see youngest dtr alone anywhere w/o OW & keeps asking her if she's ready to change her mind. Our counselor told her keep heart soft & reach out as can, to be the adult, but she doesn't have compromise values think that's ok advice?

6:54 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: Lia: it is quite difficult for children to be asked to think and react like adults. Children generally see things as one way or another -- it's hard for them to compromise. This is a tight rope for all of you to walk -- but encourage her daughter to stay connected in a friendly way, and at the same time, not to compromise on her values. Remember, you also need to be continuing to understand why your husband wanted to be away from you in the 1st Pl. -- and make any changes which you can to help this process.

6:36 TiredB2: Jim@ 634 to Cricket can you explain the process about the ow and the process you are referring to..... I just want to understand my h similarly has/is going through the typed of confusion

6:59 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: TiredB2: if husband only comes back because the other woman hates him -- or he is forced to do so -- then he will live with you emotionally disconnected -- not really a marriage

6:36 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - is there a child custody order in place? As much as we love our spouses, there are times when we have to set and enforce our own boundaries and you may have to gently but firmly tell him no a time or two until he understands that everyone else does not revolve around him and his desires.

6:36 Cricket2: Lia - I agree with Jim. My H did many things with OW in the early stages that I know he didn't like & didn't do with me. However he bottled up resentment about meeting all her needs & in time these things led to their split up.

6:37 Pelagius: RCR @ 6:32, I have to move into an apartment, but I can feel my standard of living slipping, and I had to work a second job, on top of being in school, to make ends meet after he left. It was another job at school, so it wasn't awful (cont)

6:37 Pelagius: (cont) but RCR I am exhausted.

6:37 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - a great book for assistance with how to know your boundaries, to set and enforce them is Boundaries, When to Say Yes and When to Say No, by Dr's Henry Cloud and John Townsend.

6:38 vsingh: Pel: I know it is a huge jolt to our lifestyle

6:38 Cricket2: Lia - I'd be careful that your D doesn't feel that you will be hurt if she sees her Dad with OW. They can feel so torn between us. They love & want to support Mom but also really miss their Dad. She may need to know you're okay if she sees Dad w/OW

6:39 faithfull: Jim my husband is seeing ic 2x a month. Do you think ic help. She is a Christian counselor

6:59 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: faithfull: give the process some time

6:39 Pelagius: Swan @ 6:34, I think you are so right. I just have gotten into this "I can't blame my h" mode because I feel he is SO not himself and he is ill...so I blame her. It's wrong, I know. And I DO feel sorry for that child. My h IS wonderful (cont)

6:39 Rollercoasterider: Pel: You need to do what is best for you. Not merely about what you want the outcome to be in a someday far far away. But you need to focus on you and be healthy --mentally

6:39 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Good evening Brin, how are you tonight?

6:39 Pelagius: (cont) with kids, and if my h DOES come back, that poor little boy...h says that little one is very attached to him.

6:39 summer69: Jim, I did tell H a few weeks ago that I had to move on at my own pace and he was not going to force me to make decisions I was not ready to make. I was not going to have regrets in the future. I was surprised that he sat and listened

7:00 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: summer69: you were relating to him as the Bible says -- speak the truth in love.

6:39 Cricket2: Swan & Lia - Also Boundaries by Dr's Henry Cloud & John Townsend was good.

6:39 Brin2: Good evening Swan. I am tired but good. Thanks. How about you?

6:40 Lia: Swan: I have that book, it's great. I just wondered if it was ok that I had heard today of his plans to take ow to that casino on his night (Wed.), I knew he would do this, so I made plans. It's not like me to do that, but I've kind of had it no matter

6:40 Pelagius: Swan, my h is depressed, has been for over a year, and I also feel like the issues he NEEDS to deal with, he's been carrying around for years and not dealing with. They have finally caught up to him.

6:40 Rollercoasterider: Cricket: So how are you feeling right now? How are you feeling given your MLCers withdrawal? You are taking care of you...right?

6:40 Lia: Swan cont how much I love him & yes, even respect him as a man, father, husband & businessman. I just don't want to feel used anymore

6:41 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Pelagius - It is often much easier for us to blame the other person, but the truth is they are no more to blame than our spouses. I know for me, once I stopped blaming anyone and really turned it over to God (and left it at His feet), I found a calm in my life.

6:41 TiredB2: Jim when the replayer internalizes it...... does it come out in anger or self pity or both?

7:01 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: TiredB2: Both of those plus often a lot of depression, sometimes control, and sometimes perfectionism

6:41 faithfull: Swanlake is so true when you live it in Gods hand He gives you such a peace but at time is so hard.

6:41 Brin2: Jim, all, Guess what? I saw FOUR Con-way trucks this evening. 3 of them within 5 minutes' time interval! I saw 1 Con-way truck on Sat, but 4 in a row... is amazing to me.

7:02 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: Brin2: we need to get someone to start a company with a name -- "God loves you" -- then people would be reminded that they are not alone -- God is with them. I’m so very glad that you are involved in helping us work with midlife people -- thanks

6:42 Cricket2: RCR - I’m okay. I expected back & forth & worried a little at first he was falling back into a comfort zone too quickly when he & OW first split. I wanted him to learn to live on his own & heal. But wish he'd learn to communicate. I need a play book

6:43 Lia: Cricket2 6:38 I've talked to her about that, but her mind was made up & she & he may never have really bonded & she's the 3rd wheel & it's obvious to her. H's employees have called her the forgotten child :( she wants him to reach out!

6:43 Brin2: Hi everyone! Good to see so many of us here.

6:43 faithfull: Lia my daughter 12 also will not talk to her father. She is very mad at him. He left on her 12 birthday

6:44 Rollercoasterider: Cricket: Yes, a playbook would be nice wouldn't it? But your is different than mine which is different than...and so on. I figured you expected this, but wanted to make sure.

6:44 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - to be honest, I don't see that you need to make plans, simply say no, he is aware of his scheduled visitation, that is the day his child expects him and though there will be times you might be able to accommodate his whims, this is not one of them, if he cannot make it this week, you truly hope he can next week because you know son will be saddened by not seeing him at all this week.

6:44 vsingh: Jim: This ministry is great. I thought I was the only one going thru this because Indians don't talk their personal problems. I think they hide and do things behind closed door, but my h divorced me. I thought I would die.

7:03 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: vsingh: you are a very brave woman -- plus you are smart, attractive, and very helpful. Remember to keep focused on Jesus -- let him continue to develop your life

6:44 Cricket2: RCR - In one way, it made me nervous that my H was connecting so quickly yet he was showing little affection. No hand holding & no kiss. Hugs when leaving. Now I’m purposely keeping busy without calling him to join me. Think that's helped

6:44 Pelagius: summer69 @ 6:39, I understand that impulse. I managed to buy some time to absorb each shock as it came along after the initial implosion. I thought I was doing that with the divorce too, but he has forced my hand.

6:44 Rollercoasterider: Cricket: I had a question for you a few days ago and am trying to remember...I may ask in a rambling way as I try and recall...next

6:45 Lia: Jim 6:39 Yes I know I recently started Debi Pearls Created to be His help meet It kept me very soft Recently, it seems more thoughts of H trying change me since start & always having his way, his time, his wants & being so neglected has gotten me down

7:04 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: Lia: I’m glad for the growth process and the insights that you are getting

6:45 TiredB2: Jim@ 641.... why did he pull back then? we used to communicate every day, a few times a day..... now he is distant...... We still disagree about my s and their relationship...

7:05 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: TiredB2: remember that there will be ups and downs related to feeling close or distant. Don't let your husband's emotions effect your emotions

6:45 faithfull: vsingh to me this is my therapy. It helps me to learn from so many of you and know that I am not the only going thru this

6:45 Pelagius: Brin2 @ 6:41, and all, I saw a Con-way truck on main street here yesterday, and I've NEVER seen one of those in this town before! ;)

6:45 Rollercoasterider: Cricket: Who divorced whom--your MLCer or the OW. At what point during or after the divorce did he contact you or begin some reconnections?

6:46 Pelagius: TiredB2, that accusation from OW must have really caused some damage...you're still reeling from it, and so is your h! Oh my, sweetie, I’m so sorry.

6:46 Rollercoasterider: Cricket: when he did begin reconnecting, what did he tell you? Did he have any idea what his intentions were?

6:46 Cricket2: RCR - The weirdest thing is that I've felt no affection or physical attraction from him. Then when friend implied he'd made those comments. But he got overweight when never was before. Heaviest in his life. Also may have some performance worries.

6:46 Lia: Jim cont: Often I wondered if this is even more than MLC & more overall personality traits, his screwed up past, his only wanting me ever for stability. I was a kid when we met, I didn't have all his issues, but I've always had to be the grown up even

7:06 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: Lia: midlife crisis is very much related to all of these struggles or influences which happen to us at earlier stages

6:47 vsingh: faithfull: yes, this ministry helped me, the facilitators, Jim, and everyone is great

6:47 summer69: Jim, do the mlc every find life is truly better with OW, my husband told me the reason he left was because we had more neutrals than positives. He even said we never had negative. What is up with that comment

7:07 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: summer69: statistics show that only about 5% of the men will get married to the women with whom they are having an affair.

6:47 Cricket2: RCR - He ran into me at Dr office & then went to events I was at. He told me he & OW split & he filed for Divorce. He talked some about things that happened, he found out about her lies & taking advantage of him financially & other issues.

6:47 Pelagius: All, I texted h to say happy birthday. He texted back, thanks, XXX (my name, not the pet name...which means he's distancing), you've always been so kind and thoughtful. Good night, and bye 4 now (that's our sign off).

6:48 Pelagius: Thanks for the encouragement to contact him.

6:48 Lia: Jim my own family. It's getting old people reminding me how alone I was even when he was home & how "strong" I am It would be nice for people to see I am really a very naive, tender hearted & even vulnerable girl!

7:08 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: Lia: This process is continuing to change you -- remember it's not just about your marriage and your husband changing -- you are also growing

6:48 TiredB2: Pelagius @ 646..... I didn't know how to respond..... so I just started sobbing...... asked a lot of why questions...... I am trying so to get my heart around it....... a just love him in spite of it all and unconditionally..... I am just so guarded.

6:48 TiredB2: and not liking that in me

6:48 faithfull: Jim I am trying but at times so hard because is so against my character. I try to get out my hurt and anger, cry before he comes and pray that God will give me a calm spirit. Is so hard but with God’s help I am trying

7:09 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: faithfull: remember to increase your physical activity. Exercise will often burn off some of these negative feeling. And we are all proud of you that you are continuing to work at this process

6:48 Brin2: Jim, What do you think of using a mediator? My H has been talking of filing for D and wants to negotiate without lawyers but I suggested mediator and he says OK.

7:13 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: Brin2: the reason men want to settle all of the divorce proceedings without lawyers is that they are afraid of losing money. Even if you use a mediator, I would encourage you to get a lawyer who can help to protect the assets which properly belong to you

6:48 Cricket2: RCR - He called her his $100k mistake and that he married his MLC. At one point he said he wished he'd have found a counselor like Jim or Dr. Phil & that he didn’t think he'd have divorced me except that counselor put it in his mind.

6:49 TiredB2: Pelagius... it is a praise though that he responded back..... how cool for you

6:49 Pelagius: TiredB2, you know, I THINK I love my h unconditionally, but dog gone it, there are so many challenges in this; I just don't know how to show it...how to balance my own boundaries with his needs, and the constant arrows of pain to my (cont)

6:50 Cricket2: RCR - January he asked me - What do you think? Will we get back together? I replied, I didn't know, one day at a time, one step at a time, but that it felt comfortable. I said that he'd said he needed time to get his head together & I was glad he was

6:50 Brin2: Jim, Since we never did counseling, I was thinking of suggesting doing mediation weekend or Love & Respect workshop to help us in communicating as there is a huge wall between us ever since he moved out. Thought it would be worth asking him.

7:14 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: Brin2: the love and respect workshop are terrific -- it might be a good beginning point for both of you

6:50 Pelagius: (cont) already broken heart!

6:50 Pelagius: TiredB2, with my counselor, I am working at looking into my soul, and I already know I have a lot of anger. I can hide it, but eventually it finds its way out.

6:50 Rollercoasterider: Cricket: Well that is validating. Has he expressed remorse? I see regret--quite clearly. But is there an awareness yet of the pain you felt?

6:51 Lia: Swan Son is 15 & says he hates being around ow, he just wants see dad & will go anywhere & do anything even if it's something he doesn't want & Is teetering. He goes out his way to make dad's life easy, doesn't want dad see consequences

6:51 TiredB2: Pelagius: I so totally agree...... is it very confusing, frustrating...... ....

6:51 Pelagius: TiredB2 @ 6:49, yes. it's true. Even though he didn't use my pet name, he was kind to me.

6:51 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: To everyone in the room -- because Lisa is unable to help me this evening, I am getting very far behind in answering your questions. But I will agree to answer all the questions which come in before the end of the hour -- so thank you for your patience -- I will get to your questions

6:52 Brin2: TiredB, I am sorry that your H is distancing. He does need to work through things alone. I wouldn't assume it’s all bad.

6:52 TiredB2: Jim: it’s great that you give us your time..... and understanding.... thanks again, and again

7:14 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: TiredB2: you are absolutely welcome -- and remember to pass on whatever God is teaching you to others who are struggling

6:53 Pelagius: TiredB2, I wish now I had texted him on Memorial Day to think him for his service to our country! But that was a bad memory. I started seeing his really odd and weird behavior on Memorial Day last year.

7:15 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: Pelagius: is very meaningful to me to help people -- thanks for being in the room and thanks for giving help to other people

6:53 TiredB2: Brin you are so right...... it’s more me trying to break the confusion.... and let God work on him ....

6:53 Cricket2: RCR - He hasn't really expressed remorse for me. Comments were more warm earlier in reconnection. Past few months he's joked more about my getting things (his pool table, etc). Also other jokes that I don't appreciate, not funny. Divorce jokes

6:53 summer69: Jim, I am just thankful for this sight and all of your support

7:15 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: summer69: I am glad to help -- and I hope that you will also help others along the way

6:53 Pelagius: Jim thanks again for being here to help us.

6:53 TiredB2: Brin. Pelagius..... I just love him so much miss the man

6:53 Rollercoasterider: Jim: 6:50: So do you think that it is a case of compartmentalization when a person can seem to set aside his depression when his services are needed, and put it on after he's no needed?

7:16 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: Rollercoasterider: men are great at compartmentalizing their lives -- yes he seems to be doing exactly this.

6:53 Lia: Swan H was very permissive before he left & always undermining any authority I had & now he makes plans with son behind my back. He is very manipulative. He asked oldest if she'd live w/ him before he left & asked if she'd be mad if he met someone

6:53 faithfull: I am so thankful for this chat room. I was in another chat room and at times I had to get out. I did buy your book and my husband took it I do not know if he is reading it I told him he could do what he wanted with it. That was about a month ago. I never ask him if he read it or not, I left it alone

6:54 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - Children are often afraid of upsetting the MLC parent and that they will leave them too. All you can do is reassure your son that his dad loves him, and it is ok to sometime express that he might like to do something else. As hard as this is on us, our children, regardless of age go through so much more, they don't understand what is happening only that everything in their world is changing.

6:54 Pelagius: Brin@ 6:52, I wish my h WERE alone. He took someone else along for the journey. He had an apartment, a place to be alone and work on things, but when he quit his job to avoid supporting her, he lost his quiet place. He used to come here (cont)

6:55 Cricket2: RCR - He's talked about things from the past with OW... funny stories about OW's dog falling in the pool the two of them fishing her out. Mentioned different guys that hit on OW that we both know. I know this is typical, friend chastises him on this

6:55 Pelagius: (cont) for some sanity...I miss his monthly visits...

6:55 Brin2: TiredB@6:53, Have you thought of going to counseling to help you sort through your hurts, feelings and get healing for your pain?

6:55 Lia: Swan cont someone else only 1 week after he left. Then she was 17 & he'd leave her alone @ his house all time. I have hardly seen her over year H doesn't tell me anything about our dtr's life & he encourages ow & her friendship I didn't see son on MD

6:55 Rollercoasterider: Cricket: Before MLC did the two of you have a church family, or is that something new that you have done only since then and thus without him?

6:56 TiredB2: Brin I have in the past..... I am learning a lot about my own generational sin and how to deal with it and work through it.

6:56 Pelagius: Cricket2 @ 6:55, when he used to come home mid-month for a weekend, he'd tell me stories about crazy stuff she did. He DID feel, in that horrible marriage where his ex-wife cheated all the time and threatened his life, he was staying for (cont)

6:56 Rollercoasterider: Cricket: if he's making fun of the OW, does it seem like he's trying to get you to join in? Sweetheart did this to me...but ti was during Replay. I wanted him to treat all woman appropriately

6:56 Lia: Swan cont 12:30 No card even from kids. H not only sees me as satan, but like I’m not even kids' mom or ever existed. I’m a non-person sometimes. But we had a couple + interactions this week PTL

6:56 Cricket2: RCR - I grew up in church but my H did not. His dad turned him against God because grandmother died when H was young. I feel that's part of my H's search. His best friend is Catholic and other friends are Christian.

6:57 Pelagius: (cont) the kids. Thanks to your insights tonight, Swan, I wonder if THAT's his replay...and as Jim says, my h is there perhaps for the little one...AGAIN! I don't know. I overanalyze. I want to make sense out of nonsense! ;)

6:57 Cricket2: RCR - No he's not making fun, more like remembering things that happened, sharing stories & not realizing that we don't want to visual their life together. Just doesn't realize these things.

6:57 Pelagius: Tired B, I LOVE my counselor...she's great.

6:57 vsingh: Lia: If he is mean to you, it is his guilt and he has to blame you for how he is treating you

6:57 Rollercoasterider: Cricket: Yes, MLC is a religious search. I think it was Jung who felt that was the main purpose of midlife

6:58 Brin2: Pel@6:54, From what I remember, it seems he's so unhappy with OW anyway, so all the more reason to see her as a temporary bandaid. I picture a bandaid falling off and looking tatty very quickly - so not a good place for OW to be in.

6:58 Pelagius: Cricket2 @ 6:57, my h was telling me those stories like I was his best friend...whoops, until MLC, I WAS his best friend...and he was mine.

6:58 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - is it possible for you to contact daughter, invite her to lunch, dinner, movie, girls day/night out, etc. No talk about husband or other woman. keep conversations light and just about the two of you. Ask about her life and accept whatever little bit she is willing to share with you. Over time, she will learn that she can have a relationship with you that is friendly and separate from her dad and may connect with you much more.

6:58 TiredB2: Pelagius: as women we all over analyze I think.... we were trained to be fixers and menders. So this is so foreign for us.... to let them be and let God work in them... While God works in us

6:58 Rollercoasterider: Cricket: Whew, well that is good then. Have you noticed the memory lapses...is he amazed at how long it's been?

6:59 Brin2: TB@6:56, Have you ever tried EMDR type counseling?

6:59 Lia: Jim 6:54 How, according to H, EVERYTHING was wrong with me & he tells ow he would be with someone else if not her & he will never come back to me & he hasn’t loved me for 10years of 24. Funny that's when he opened businesses

7:19 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: Lia: It very well may be that this change in attitude toward you is related to the business in some way. It would be very helpful if you could identify what are the specific things which he does not like about you. There are probably some factors which have a long history in his life -- and you remind him of some of those painful people or experiences

7:00 Cricket2: RCR - His memory is terrible.

7:00 TiredB2: Brin @ 659.... yes I did when my previous h committed suicide. I learn how to use it at home, after 2-3 session with an EMDR counselor

7:00 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: All - it is almost time to close, the room will be open a little longer.

7:00 Cricket2: All - I need to run to Church Meeting. Have a great week

7:00 Pelagius: TiredB2 @ 6:58, glad to know I’m not the only one..but I keep thinking if I find a rational explanation for this, the hurt won't be so bad...or so long lasting...

7:00 Pelagius: Night Cricket!

7:01 Lia: Swan 6:58 She only calls if she needs something or has medical problem. I call & ask & she always declines. She just pierced her clavicles & now some hippy told her not to wash hair so she doesn't for 3wks & puts baby powder in it & wears bandana!

7:01 Rollercoasterider: Cricket: Thanks and God Bless

7:01 Brin2: TB@7:00, Since your H is depressed, would he consider going to counseling?

7:01 TiredB2: Jim @ 800 I don’t think it’s because she hates him or he feels forced.... I think his anger is because he cannot admit the relationship in the first place. and is angry for the hurt and the ow is trying hard to get him back.

7:02 Rollercoasterider: Lia 7:01: Pierced clavicles...Um how is that? ewe

7:02 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - I would say keep asking, even if she declines, one day she will say yes. She already knows you will always be there for her, she proves that by coming to you when she "needs".

7:02 Lia: Swan: she's going to see H's fam in SC 2 wks they’ve completely turned on me even though H had nothing to do with them before we got together because his mom abandoned him & they treat everyone as something that makes them look good, dtr very smart!

7:04 Lia: Swan she will then go to see her bf in Ohio 2wks & then off to college If I didn't have son much time & little one, OW would have my entire life & she never sacrificed for anyone in her life she thinks since H doesn't "love" me it's ok be with him

7:04 vsingh: 7:03:Thanks Jim, I will be example to Indian women, I know and have heard of them doing suicide when this happens

7:05 TiredB2: Pelagius: if only there were a rational to this....... it is great that we have each other to see us through the rough spots and that we can be there to uplift someone when we have that confident day or days.

7:05 Brin2: Jim@7:02, Wow, what a great idea! Last year, after my H told me to move on, I was asking God for a sign, and I saw a man holding a card saying "Jesus Loves You". Just what I needed to see. I do like helping people. I’m very grateful for your help.

7:06 Pelagius: TiredB2, yes, I am grateful to all of you. I hope you can get past this last big hurt; I will pray for you. You are really sweet. And vsingh, I hope your sister-in-law and her children are okay.

7:06 TiredB2: Jim : again thank you..... I try so not to let my emotions get the best of me and I do better each time.... the struggle is less ... and the understanding is always there.

7:07 vsingh: pel: thanks, she and her kids are at end of rope

7:07 Pelagius: RCR, your conversations are always so stimulating, and Brin, I’m amazed at your calm and peaceful center. Summer and faithfull, I'll keep you in my prayers; it was nice to meet you tonight.

7:07 TiredB2: Pelagius.... thank you..... the prayers all always a blessing...... I will lift you up as well.

7:07 Brin2: TiredB, I often try to remind myself of what Jim told me "Don't believe everything they say, even if they say they are never coming back."

7:07 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - remember we all reap what we sow, and for those who do not sow but attempt to reap, it does not end well. God's Word tells of events and the consequences of those who did just that. Look those passages up and study them, it will help you to understand that not all things happen immediately and may even appear to be happy, but we honestly do not know what is really going on and most of all remember God is always in control.

7:08 Pelagius: Lia, hang in there. You have a lot on your plate. Brin2 @ 7:07, that's good to hear, since my h said that! But 6 weeks ago, he said he was coming home!

7:08 TiredB2: Brin: good advise huh

7:08 Pelagius: Swan, thanks for facilitating.

7:08 Lia: Jim 7:04 If H truly has PD what am I doing waiting? I don't know how to love & disconnect! Still God has been pretty clear & won't take these feelings away. I THINK DEALING WITH npd TAKES SPECIAL SKILLS I NEED TO DEVELOP

7:09 Pelagius: Ooh Swan, @ 7:07, thanks for that! I was feeling sorry for myself for working so hard, while OW doesn't WANT to work and contribute to her family and sponge off my h. Wow. Thanks. I love what I do and don't feel I should apologize for it just to be needy for him.

7:10 Pelagius: vsingh, send me an e-mail update of your sister-in-law, okay?

7:10 Lia: Jim 7:08 thank you & I know this. I really want H to see my true heart & I wonder if he's ever really seen it or attached to me like he seems to have done so much with ow

7:10 faithfull: When all this mess first started I was not sleeping so I open up my bible and read and pray even though nothing would sink in and God always had a word of comfort for me. I started reading about MLC and learning all I could

7:10 vsingh: pel: thanks for your concern for her. we are fortunate really

7:11 faithfull: I try not to exercise a lot due to I lost so much weight and my appetite is still not where it should be. I do get out and work on my garden and flowers.

7:11 vsingh: good night all

7:11 Pelagius: Jim and all, thanks again. You all help so much. vsingh @ 7:10, oh my yes, my situation could be far worse. I just want my husband back...!!

7:11 vsingh: thank you

7:11 Pelagius: Night vsingh! I'll keep you all in my prayers.

again, to everyone in the room. I will be staying until I've answered all the questions which have come in before seven o'clock -- Pacific daylight savings time

7:12 Brin2: Swan@7:07, I was reading the parable about the rich man and Lazarus this morning (in Luke 16). I got the same message from it - we get rewarded for our actions and choices and behavior.

7:12 vsingh: pel: good night. I too pray for us all

7:12 Lia: Jim Could you check out wisereaction.org & tell me what you think? Also I'd like to talk about parental alienation syndrome & Narcissistic personality. One skill development counselor said too mush psyche with faith, but we are complex beings & enemy

7:12 faithfull: Good night I have to go my daughter is waiting for me. God Bless

7:13 Athena: I never make it back in traffic in time:( I will try to read what everyone said and you all are always in my prayers!

7:13 Lia: Jim cont uses all our issues & problems against us yet this is truly a spiritual battle

7:14 Lia: Jim I'd also like to talk about family court vs legal sep if we talk via phone soon

7:15 Brin2: Jim@7:13, The assets in question are not big items but I feel that my H should see things more objectively and fairly. Thanks I agree about using a lawyer even if there is a mediator.

7:15 Lia: Brin I want to go to the intensive in July but I’m sure H won't go I thought about saying I wouldn't even consider signing anything w/o him trying to go, but probably bad idea for any such idea he'll see as ultimatum

7:16 TiredB2: Jim @ 714 I will ..... thanks for all you support........ I just asked myself will h reconnect.... I would hate to have an emotional disconnected marriage..... that would be so heart breaking.

7:16 Brin2: Jim@7:14, Yes, I am thinking of the Love & Respect Intensive with Dr. Ken Canfield. I am sure you've heard of him. Dr Eggerichs hired him to do these workshops.

7:16 Rollercoasterider: Athena: hi...we're almost done, but hi!

7:17 TiredB2: love to each of you .... good night

7:17 Brin2: Lia@7:15, I wouldn't use an ultimatum or tie the signing to it. The goal of the intensive should be to improve communication between the 2 of you.

7:17 Lia: RCR dtr's clavicles are pierced both sides they are a thin bar tunneled under skin with round/flat end caps about 1" apart so it looks like 2 gems or metal disc on each clavicle crazy right!

7:18 Lia: Brin what do you think about single one of us going?

7:19 Brin2: RCR@6:53, I think my H is showing the symptoms you described. It confuses me and I start wondering if he really is depressed or in MLC.

7:19 Rollercoasterider: Lia: OUCH

7:19 Lia: Jim & Swan b4 we go thanks for helping as usual

7:20 Brin2: Lia@7:18, They won't let us go without the spouse because the goal of the workshop is to improve couple communication. The coordinator told me that they won't take 1 spouse only.

7:20 Athena: Please don't close the chat so I can read it! My husband keeps saying he wants to come home I don't know what to do. He still has his 21 yr old girlfriend. I don't want anything to hurt our children anymore than it already has. This looks like a

7:20 Rollercoasterider: Brin: I'll probably be out Wednesday, but maybe we can talk Friday about that

7:20 Athena: great chat. Hi RCR!

7:21 Rollercoasterider: Athena: It will probably close, but it should be available with a few hours to a few days

7:21 Jim CONWAY [Administrator]: to everyone in the chat room -- I’m glad that we could spend this time together and Jan and I will continue to pray for you as you walk through this difficult journey -- keep remembering that God's love is greater than all of the struggles with which you are involved! Goodnight to all of you.

7:21 Brin2: RCR@7:20, Chat Friday about what?

Swan Lake -- would you please close up the room -- thank you very much for being here

7:21 Lia: Jim another gentleman said that too & it would take long time change his picture. Also H feels he's failed, can't forgive parents but feels he's like them now but I’m the enemy & ow is trashy kind of like his mom did One person said I may have been

7:22 Brin2: RCR, Did you mean chat about whether my H is MLCer?

7:22 Lia: Jim cont too deep thinker & even though he's successful, I may intimidate him funny I was always intimidated on how good @ everything he was/is

7:22 Athena: Can I please read before you close so I don't have to wait a day or so???

7:22 Rollercoasterider: About your comment from 7:19

7:22 Rollercoasterider: yup

7:23 Rollercoasterider: Brin: I'm just anticipating that the window will poof away at any sec...and Sweetheart's waiting for me

7:23 Brin2: RCR@7:22, I am not sure if I can make Fri chat. I was invited to something but may cancel that.

7:23 Lia: Jim I'll 2nd that @ 7:21 Greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world & nothing is impossible with God

7:23 Rollercoasterider: Well...we'll see each other around one of the chats!

7:23 Brin2: RCR, OK, talk to you later. I will definitely be here on Sun. Thanks so much for helping.

7:24 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Athena - I am sorry but I will need to close the room by 9:30, I have another obligation at that time, however, Lisa is pretty good about getting it posted quickly into the archive.

7:24 Rollercoasterider: Good night all

7:24 Brin2: All, good night. Have a great week.

7:24 Lia: Athena are you in the email group?

7:25 Lia: Swan there was something the other day you wanted me to clarify via email. Do you remember what that was?

7:27 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - I don't, I will need to look at my notes and will do it. Sorry, this has been an extremely busy weekend for me and I am a little behind.

7:27 Lia: Athena if you call the office, in am, Lisa could give you my email/# if you need a friendly ear

7:27 Lia: Swan no problem darling!

7:29 Lia: Swan So you think I should just say no on changing nights with H not make up excuses

7:30 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - You know your husband best, personally with my husband I did, it took a few times, but he started to respect my time.

7:30 Lia: Swan I struggle a lot with rebellion, disrespect & authority from years H undermining me & the manipulation too

7:30 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: All - got to head off to my next thing, see you later this week.

7:31 LisaK [Administrator]:
For a list of media recommendations by Jim Conway, Midlife Dimensions, Lisa Kahan, and our Chat Room Facilitators, please visit Amazon via our special link: http://astore.amazon.com/midlife-20. Amazon sends a donation to the non-profit ministry of Midlife Dimensions anytime an order is placed via our link. We hope you enjoy the various lists of recommendations and thank you for supporting Midlife Dimensions through Amazon.

May 11, 2009 / With Jim Conway

5:59 LisaK [Administrator]: Good Evening. Welcome to Monday Night Chat with Jim. I’m Lisa, the Office Manager for Midlife Dimensions. I’m blessed to serve the Lord through our Chat Room Ministry which has helped so many people through their spouse’s midlife journey. Jim Conway will be online with us shortly and as he reads your questions, he’ll dictate his answers for me to type and post for you to see. He will answer all questions that come in before the end of the hour.

6:00 LisaK [Administrator]: "Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning it’s shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God" (Hebrews 12:2).

6:01 LisaK [Administrator]: Lord, what can we learn from our feelings of blame? Help us to keep our feelings in perspective and to accept our own responsibility for the situation. We want to learn something about ourselves and not be blind to opportunities for personal and spiritual growth. Please help us all to stay focused on you. In Jesus’ name. Amen.

6:01 Pelagius: Hi all! How is everyone tonight?

6:02 Pelagius: Lisa, thank you for your prayer.

6:02 Pelagius: Hi Swan.

6:02 sbky: Pelagius. doing good. trying to start getting an anniversary party together for my sister. but trying to make it a surprise. it will be their 20th

6:02 Pelagius: sbky @ 6:02, that's great!

6:02 Swanlake: Hello everyone

6:02 joyk: my first time in chat room. Thanks Lisa

6:03 Pelagius: Hi joyk. Welcome!

6:03 joyk: thanks.

6:03 Pelagius: Hi Jim! Thanks for joining us tonight.

6:03 joyk: Jim, Thanks for speaking with me on Sat.

6:03 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Hi! I’m glad to be with you all. What would you like to talk about this evening?

6:04 Pelagius: I am really down tonight, Jim. Feeling ready to toss in the towel and quit.

6:05 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Pelagius: I’m sorry that you're struggling tonight - what's going on?

6:04 joyk: My husband asked me to meet with him tomorrow night. I am scared. Mother's day was very hard.

6:07 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: joyk: It's very important to develop your own stability with God and other people so that your emotions are not yo-yo'd up and down by contacts with your husband.

6:04 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Joyk, WELCOME! I’m Jim Conway, President of Midlife Dimensions. This room is here to encourage you and answer questions you have about your current situation. Important: Do NOT share personal information such as an email or home address, phone #, or any names. Here’s how to join in: 1) Type the name of the person you want to speak to followed by your entry. 2) You’re limited to 250 keystrokes per entry. If your entry is long, then click “chat” to post it and start your next entry with the word “continued”. 3) Type “To All” if you have a general entry not directed to one person. 4) If you’d like to contact someone in the room, email or call us at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. or 714-768-1777. We’ll have them contact you to exchange information.

6:05 Pelagius: H texted this morning, angry that he can't get credit. Says it is because he is an authorized user on a credit card I have. He has no job, only retirement income, and over half of his income goes to debt. But he and OW think it is because he is still on that card. She thinks he is divorcing me, but he is not proceeding with the divorce.

6:06 Pelagius: joyk @ 6:04, Mother's Day was hard for me too. I suspect h spent it with OW and her three kids (20, 19, and 4).

6:06 maracaibo: I’m divorced now for 8 months after a 30 year relationship that spanned my entire adult life. My ExW is involved with another man. We have no children and thus little connection. I guess I’m looking for suggestions on how to reconnect .

6:15 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: maracaibo: There are 2 important things you can do now. 1) Do the painful research to find out why your wife wanted to be away from you. You might need to ask some trusted friends who will really tell you the truth, don't ask your wife. Also, some of this information can be discovered by reading sections of this website and reading the book, "Women in Midlife Crisis" by Jim & Sally Conway. 2) Become the terrific, affirming, and fascinating man that she wants to spend time with. Practice becoming a nourishing, affirming person so that people naturally want to be around you. I'll add a #3) Deepen your walk with God so that you become a man of spiritual strength.

6:06 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:05, I don't think I love him anymore. I say I don't want him back, but I feel the Lord say, but I want you to take him back. I feel my h is coming home soon and I don't want him to. He almost stayed home last time. But he charged something on one of his credit cards, I know for her for Mother's Day. He completely ignored my birthday.

6:18 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Pelagius: Usually when a person is trying to give up, and wants out of the situation - they have probably been recently hurt. It appears that you have been ignored and betrayed recently so that you'll want to quit. Wanting to quit is a very normal response - you're not a bad person - you are just overloaded with stress. Take a few days to give yourself a deep breath. Do some fun things, with friends who you can trust not to talk about your marriage relationship. This is also a good time to increase your daily exercise time, listen to more music, and spend more quiet minutes reading the Bible and reflecting on what God is saying to you.

6:08 Pelagius: I think my feelings changed when he told me, being home one weekend, that he was angry with her because she wasn't putting any effort into the anniversary of their first time to be physical together - April 24! He almost slept with her on my birthday. Things just keep piling up.

6:09 Pelagius: Hi HGT!

6:09 CindyJ: Hi Hi Hi everyone!

6:09 Pelagius: maracaibo @ 6:06, I'm sorry for your situation. My h and I have no children either, although I am close to most of his children.

6:09 joyk: Jim, I have asked the Lord to help me, and he helped me find you to talk to the other day. Thank you. I have been very sad about my separation and I have called my husband a few times. He was okay with my calls. He asked to see me today or tomorrow. We will see each other tomorrow. I am afraid and I do not know why we are meeting. He said he just wants to see me. How could I handle this without being scared or getting hopes up?

6:21 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: joyk: This is a good time to let your husband set the pace for your get together. When you do get together, make sure that you are well rested, that people are praying for you, and that you have committed yourself not to come across to him as a pathetic, depressed, weeping woman. Let him see you with all of the positive strength that you are getting from your daily walk with God.

6:10 Pelagius: Jim, I have a colleague at work who is cruel and hateful and accusatory, and she is an ordained minister! She destroys people in order to control them, to get them to accommodate her. My h's OW does that too.

6:10 HoneyGurlTina: Hello All

6:10 Pelagius: My h's OW does to my h, I mean; and yet, one of the reasons my h says he left me was because of this colleague at work, how she treated me; what a hypocrite!

6:23 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Pelagius: I’m sorry that this colleague at work who pretends to be a spiritual person is so hurtful in her relationships. It's best to release people like this to God, asking God to help them work on their problems. If this kind of person irritates you, it's probably something that you need to chat with God about, because you have probably been hurt in the past by some authority figure.

6:11 Pelagius: maracaibo, do you live near your ex-wife; is she in the same town or nearby?

6:11 Pelagius: joyk @ 6:10, I can understand why you'd be scared.

6:11 HoneyGurlTina: Hello Yoli

6:11 maracaibo: 6:06 Maracaibo is for Jim - Sorry guys I’m new to this

6:11 Pelagius: joyk @ 6:09, how long has your separation been?

6:11 Yoli: HGT: Hi, how are you?

6:11 Pelagius: Hi Yoli!

6:12 joyk: just a short time

6:12 HoneyGurlTina: Yoli, I am good, and yo?

6:12 Yoli: Pelagius: Hey, how are you?

6:13 Pelagius: maracaibo @ 6:11, sorry, just curious about your situation. Yoli @ 6:12, not bad, just glad to see the school year winding down. It's been some amazing 9 months!

6:13 HoneyGurlTina: Hi Cricket

6:13 Cricket2: Hi all - hope you had a nice Mother's Day weekend.

6:13 Pelagius: Hi Cricket!

6:13 Yoli: HGT: I'm doing well. I found out over the weekend that h does indeed have OW. I was initially really upset but now, I’m okay. I did a lot of soul searching today and did a lot of praying as well.

6:13 joyk: Jim, should I wait for your answer?

6:14 HoneyGurlTina: Hi ya Tired

6:14 Yoli: Pelagius: School for you?

6:14 Pelagius: Wow, Yoli @ 6:13, sorry. That had to hurt. I will never forget the feeling the day he confessed to being unfaithful. I wasn't surprised, but it still hurt!

6:14 maracaibo: Pelagius - no problem. I've never done a chat before and I don't know what I’m doing LOL

6:15 HoneyGurlTina: Yoli, so sorry about the OW, it is so hard when we find out for sure

6:15 Pelagius: Yoli @ 6:14, I work full time in a university, am a PhD student, and had a second job as a graduate assistant. And a horrible colleague. Took my PhD exams in October after h gave me the speech in June, confessed to being unfaithful, and moved out!

6:15 Yoli: Pelagius: Yeah it hurt, but I think deep down I knew. Cricket was wonderful last night and told me that it was better that it happen now rather when this first all started. Maybe I am stronger than I think I am.

6:15 TiredB2: Lisa that is nice prayer thank you

6:15 Pelagius: TiredB2! Hi, how are you?

6:16 Yoli: Pelagius: That can definitely be tiring. But I think it's incredible that you got your PhD. I’m impressed. You still got it!

6:16 Pelagius: Jim, part of the thing for me is, we owe taxes and will have to make payments. I thought I could count on him, but I can't. My second part-time job ends this month, and I have to get through the summer, which was hard enough when he was here.

6:16 HoneyGurlTina: Hi Tamashii

6:16 HoneyGurlTina: Hi ya Kmkrn

6:17 Pelagius: Yoli @ 6:16, almost! I still have to write my dissertation but at least I don't have to attend classes or take any more exams. Being in the classroom feels like a calling from God for me, and I am finally going to realize it!

6:17 Cricket2: Pelagius - I would pray for God's will in your life. Trust Him with your future, pray for His guidance. In the mean time work on your healing, your growth and just working in you. As women, we tend to put our energy into our marriage & H & neglect us

6:17 Yoli: HGT: Yeah it was hard but I’m doing okay. I kind of do feel sorry at the OW because I do think she has issues as well.

6:17 Pelagius: kmkrn, hi!

6:17 Pelagius: Yoli @ 6:17, they almost always do. My h's OW hates men, and abuses him terribly. With his low self-esteem, he takes it!

6:17 HoneyGurlTina: Yoli, yes, I think most of them do

6:17 maracaibo: Pelagius - Together 30 years, married 22 years. My ExW took off, declined counseling and had an affair with a man 25 years her senior. He is by all accounts a womanizer. My ExW on the other hand was suffering through mid life hormone problems

6:18 Yoli: Pelagius: Yeahh I was told that she controls h life by planning everything. Kind of surprised but oh well. Can't do anything but pray for both of them, right?

6:19 Pelagius: Cricket2 @ 6:17, thanks. I have made great strides, but will always feel, if my h comes back, that I won't feel "good" enough. I look 15 years younger than I am, have lost tons of weight. All my friends say I can do so much better than my h.

6:19 Cricket2: Yoli & HGT - \I've shared before, but I've learned that most of the OW have a lot of baggage due to their childhood. They pursue married men as they don't feel worthy or their afraid of commitment. I met woman who was OW, wanted instant gratification

6:19 Pelagius: (cont) Cricket @ 6:17, It hurts to hear them say that.

6:19 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:18, thanks. Yes I am very hurt.

6:19 sbky: yoli I do feel sorry for the women my h may be with, because if they are getting what my h was like when he left .. they aren’t getting much

6:20 Pelagius: I don't often get in touch with my hurt; sbky @ 6:19, that's the truth! She's not getting my REAL h.

6:20 Cricket2: Cont'd - They are damaged which is why they pursue married men. Their relationships with married men, never really last. The woman I met has since been healed, is Christian & now married with kids. She opened up after learning my story.

6:20 Yoli: sbky: Oh no they aren't the nasty men with them that they are with us. And that's okay. When they come out of the fog, they will see the real person in the OW.

6:20 Cricket2: All - The OW isn't the problem really, our H's are in their own pain of mlc & the OW is a band aide, a quick fix (they think) but in time they will see the truth and have to deal with their own stuff.

6:21 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:18, when this colleague at work is hard on me, it tends to influence my stamina. I don't like injustice, and she's cruel. She is just like the OW my h is with and she stole her husband from his wife and kids thirty years ago.

6:27 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Pelagius: The kind of pain that you are experiencing can only be drained off by God as you surrender this problem and person to God. Also, let God walk you back through your life to some childhood time when this kind of pain was first started and ask God to heal that area of your life as well.

6:21 sbky: yoli.. mine is like a robot...

6:21 Yoli: Cricket2:You're absolutely right. I thought a lot about what you told me last night and it's true. It helped me refocus today and continue to pray.

6:22 HoneyGurlTina: Cricket, what I don’t understand though, like with my H's OW, she can get people to like her so easy. My H's family thinks she is the greatest thing since sliced bread, how do women with problems manage this?

6:22 TiredB2: Pelagius: hi ya....have you ever read the power of a praying woman? I am working my way through it ...... it really opens your eyes and give you great insight on what and why to pray....

6:22 Pelagius: Cricket2 @ 6:20, sometimes I see him working on his own stuff. She seems to be his lifeline.

6:22 TiredB2: Hi ya HoneygurlTina

6:22 Yoli: sbky: Yeah, so is mine. The few times I've seen him, from a distance, he looks like a fish out of water, trying to get some air.

6:22 kmkrn1: Hi everyone!

6:22 TiredB2: I hope you had a great Mothers day

6:22 maracaibo: Thank you Dr. Conway. My ExW and I don't have any contact and don't see each other. Suggestions?

6:30 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: maracaibo: The changes I suggested at 6:15 are the major things you should be focusing on right now. Even if you had contact with your ex-wife, it would still not work because there's something that made her want to be away from you - and until that something is solved, it's a waste of time to try and contact her - so focus on the issues I mentioned earlier, and especially read the book, "Women in Midlife Crisis". You can get a used copy on Amazon.com through our website.

6:22 Pelagius: TiredB2 @ 6:22, that's great. I will get it.

6:23 Cricket2: Pelagius - I can tell that you have more work to do. I did too, I didn't realize how much of me I'd lost and how much my self-esteem suffered. It's taken years, but I’m feeling so much better about myself and I believe my H sees that too.

6:24 Tamashii: Cricket: I’m so excited that I’m shaking. Pray that I don't do something dumb.

6:24 Cricket2: HGT - They put on a front, but it isn't real. In time the can't keep up that act. They continually mold themselves to what others want or what they think they need to be. Don't focus on the OW, look at areas you can grow & work on you. Use this time

6:24 Pelagius: Jim, thanks. My problem is, I have often dealt with people like this, and I let them use me. I try to get along with powerful people, but I exercise influence instead of power. I think in the end it is more effective.

6:31 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Pelagius: You are in the process of learning how to not be used by people and not to be embarrassed to say what you need and to not be embarrassed by being selective in the people you want to connect with - this is all very positive.

6:24 joyk: Jim, We are separated but he has not yet gotten an apt as far as I know. I do not know if he will be telling me he has found a place. His things are still all here. I do not ask where he stays. I am afraid he will tell me he wants a long separation or a divorce. He has not mentioned divorce, but I have told him I do not know how much time I can give him to decide. He cheated on me but does not feel guilty or ask for forgiveness. How can I handle this?

6:37 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: joyk: I think you are afraid to hear that he may want to have a separation, or that he has another woman. Remember that all of these kinds of fears are not reality, but these fears can drive you into depression. It's crucial at this time that you are not meeting with him in a depressed state - this is why I have encouraged you to really stabilize yourself with a daily quiet time with God and daily surrendering your fears to God. I also want to encourage you to read the little book, "31 Days of Praise" - it will give you daily prompts to help you stabilize your life for this crucial time.

6:24 kmkrn1: Tamashii - What did I miss? What's exciting?

6:25 HoneyGurlTina: Jim, I was wondering if you could help me with something, I really and truly want to trust God completely every day, and I think I do good some days, and then other days not so good. How do I keep doing it all of the time?

6:40 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: HoneyGurlTina: Hey Woman - welcome to the human race - all of us want to be perfect all the time! ---- God loves that about you, and we also are proud of you that you keep trying. I find it best for me to build a structure in my life where I commit myself not to do any business or look at my computer, until I've had my quiet time with God. That small step of structure gives me the stability that I need every day - whenever I skip that time with God, I find myself wasting part of my day. Try it for awhile and see what happens.

6:25 Yoli: All: I don't know if I'll have time to be on chat again. So I ask for prayers that next week at daughter's graduation activities, that God's presence shows in me and of course that h notices. I hope I look good and would also like for him to notice. I also want God to help me demonstrate my unconditional love for my h. Thanks.

6:25 Pelagius: Cricket2 @ 6:23, yes, you are right. My h knows he can push my buttons. I don't know sometimes how to do this patience thing.

6:25 Pelagius: Jim, joy raises an issue. My h's things are still here. Should I pack them up and put them away and out of sight? The last time he was here he left even more; he told me he left his stuff because he knew he was coming back.

6:41 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Pelagius: Generally, just ignore some of the stuff he has left - if it helps to put it in a box, out of sight, then do that.

6:26 Pelagius: Yoli @ 6:25, I'll pray for that!

6:26 Cricket2: Jim - My H continues to reconnect, see ea other almost every day, talk on the phone & do many activities together. No talk of future and no affection or intimacy. I think he's self conscience about being out of shape, weight gain & performance issues. Mostly contact is good, he's still in pain from 6 back surgeries, takes a lot of med's has developed sleep apnea & has trouble sleeping. I think pain & lack of sleep affects him. He still hasn't talked about future, told friend I shut him down. He told friend he tried to have talk about future, I shut him down. He'd said- What you think, will we get back together? I replied I didn't know, one day at a time, step by step but felt comfortable. He'd said he wanted time to get head straight

6:45 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Cricket2: I’m glad that he is making frequent contacts. And your assessment is pretty accurate, that he may not be getting too intimate because he is embarrassed, ashamed, and depressed. How about when you get together, that you plan some physical activities such as going for a walk, biking, or other activities that would not put his back at risk, but still allow you both to have some exercise and be with each other. Just walking will produce endorphins in both of your brains that will give you a more positive outlook on your situation. Overall, it's great that he's reconnecting. Try the physical exercise to help both of you feel better, and perhaps the relationship will deepen a bit.

6:26 Pelagius: And Yoli, pray for me, that I'll show unconditional love without being a doormat!

6:26 Yoli: Tamashii: So incredibly exciting to see God at work in your life and after all your prayers. I wanted to cry when I read your email. Praise God.

6:26 Tamashii: KMKRN: She left the OM!!!

6:27 Pelagius: Tamashii @ 6:26, yay!

6:27 Yoli: Pelagius: You got it. I will definitely pray for you. I know you can show him unconditional love without being a doormat

6:27 kmkrn1: Tamashii - Woo Hoo!!! That's great! I guess I'd better read my emails!

6:27 HoneyGurlTina: Tam, me too, Praise God!!!

6:27 Pelagius: Yoli @ 6:27, thanks! Sometimes I just humor him to avoid a fight.

6:27 Yoli: Tamashii: I know it's only the beginning but wow what a beginning.

6:28 TiredB2: Tamashii: how wonderful for you ......

6:28 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:27, thanks. I thought it was something with my mom or my dad, but I don't know.

6:28 Pelagius: Tamashii, I saw your e-mail today. Awesome!

6:28 Yoli: Pelagius: There's nothing wrong with that.

6:28 HoneyGurlTina: Hello Hannah

6:28 TiredB2: hi ya hannah

6:28 HoneyGurlTina: Tamashii, how long was she with OM?

6:28 TiredB2: wow this is a busy place tonight

6:29 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:27, thanks. I am too much of a pleaser, and then take the people close to me for granted, I guess. My h says the ONLY problem with our marriage was the demands this woman made (I'd be on e-mail a lot answering her questions).

6:48 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Pelagius: You might find some of the "Boundaries" books by "Townsend and Cloud" to be helpful for where you are.

6:29 Pelagius: Yes, Tamashii, how long?

6:29 kmkrn1: Hi Hannah! Is your adorable granddaughter doing better?

6:29 Tamashii: Honey: 3 years.

6:29 Pelagius: Yoli @I 6:28, thanks!

6:29 Pelagius: Tamashii @ 6:29, oh my! Had you just about given up?

6:29 HoneyGurlTina: Tired @ 6:28 yes it is, and me without my running shoes on. LOL

6:29 joyk: Jim, Is it okay to tell my husband I love him in spite of all the lies/cheating? I pray for him, me, and us.

6:49 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: joyk: Yes - it's ok to tell your husband that you love him, but if you try to manipulate him with that, it will backfire.

6:29 Pelagius: Hi hannah!

6:29 TiredB2: Jim: is it normal for me to be really skeptical..... my h is reconnecting..... I am having trouble believing it all.

6:49 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: TiredB2: It's normal to be skeptical - trust takes time to grow, you didn't decide to get married when you first met each other - give it time.

6:30 Tamashii: You guys wouldn't let me give up. Neither would Charlyne!

6:31 maracaibo: Thank you Dr. Conway.

6:31 Tamashii: Maracaibo: PATIENCE!!!

To all: This is Lisa the Office Manager. I just want to remind you that if you have a private question you don’t wish to discuss here, please consider scheduling a 1-on-1 phone counseling session with Jim. Contact us at 714-768-1777 or This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. to set up a session. You can find information on phone counseling on our website: www.midlife.com. Remember, Jim always offers his live counseling in the chat room without cost. If you wish to donate to our ministry to support the Website/Chat Room upkeep, please do so at www.Midlife.com. Thank you.

6:32 TiredB2: Tamashii: that's right ...... it's that Winston Churchill speak...." Never give up, Never, Never give up, Never, Never, Never give up.......

6:33 Hannah2: hi Lia

6:33 joyk: Jim, learning from what you are telling others, my husband does not need me to keep telling him how to get help. I guess my "nagging" is what drove him away in some part.

6:50 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: joyk: Hey!!!!, I’m proud of you - you're getting it!!

6:33 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:31, this is true. I have grown some backbone with this woman, and she pushes back even harder. She is also trying to hurt my boss by hurting me. He is pushing back too. She is about to be removed from her job. She is only hurting herself

6:51 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Pelagius: The woman is probably becoming more negative because she is about to lose her job.

6:33 Lia: Hey Hannah, HGT & ALL!!!!!

6:34 Yoli: Jim: Is it wrong to tell your h that you love him even if he's with OW? Should I leave him alone?

6:52 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Yoli: Telling your husband you love him - do it in a very fun positive, and playful way. For example: tell him I've always really been impressed by your pecks or your butt or your legs (whatever) - in other words pick something out that you like about him - sort of in teasing, but truthful. Also pick out some cute thing that you like about him which maybe was a private little joke between the 2 of you.

6:34 Pelagius: Tamashii, this is great news. Three years! Wow! Lia! hi!

6:35 Cricket2: Pelagius - One of things I worked on was becoming more independent, working on me. I believe my H appreciates that, most of the time. Sometimes he's not used to it as he reconnects.

6:35 Lia: Jim, I may be calling you soon for a few specifics, but long & short is H blocked my home equity loan without telling me like so many other things he's done I was floating loan because his withholding support & he is worried I’ll finish house & put new floors in. They say get on with life but he constantly tries make me fall flat on face & lies to make me look bad. Trouble is I’m pretty smart & responsible. I unblocked loan today so I can pay it with itself should I tell him, I asked him to pay it last week along with 2 fuel bills & he refused lawyer go ahead use loan & also order floors Unless I close loan it could keep be blocked & unblocked yet judge told him he couldn't waste marital assets. What do you think?

6:54 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lia: It's crucial that you get some local legal help so that you don't start a running battle between the 2 of you - let the lawyers handle some of this stress for you.

6:35 TiredB2: HoneygurlTina: how have you been?

6:35 Pelagius: Yoli's question at 6;34 is good. I only tell him I love him when he comes home, and he just says, "I know." I sometimes think it makes him feel as though he can do as he likes and come home anytime.

6:36 Pelagius: Cricket2 @ 6:35, the scary thing about that is, early on, when he said he was unfaithful, he said it was because she needed him and I didn't. Made me wonder if I was TOO independent for him. My first h accused me of that, but he was (cont)

6:36 Cricket2: Pelagius - My H;s OW was really in my face and she worked in same bldg. At that time, my H was protective of her & made excuses. Now he appreciates that I didn't lower myself to the OW's level, that I reacted with class even when she gave me reason

6:37 Pelagius: (cont) controlling and didn't want me to have a life. He was abusive. I tried to explain to h that I have scars and yet I've always been independent. But I know what you mean, and appreciate your suggestion, Cricket.

6:37 HoneyGurlTina: Tired, I have been doing ok, struggling the past few days because of OW going on trip with my H to his parents 50th wedding anniversary and renewing of vows, but hanging in there. How have you been?

6:37 TiredB2: Yoli: I for a long time only told my h I loved him in response to him saying he love me first...... I thought it best to not be too mushy until he was ready...... and after months he finally started saying it, and even types it in emails too

6:37 Cricket2: Pelagius - We're all different and of course they look for excuses & justification for their own behavior. I'd look closely at yourself, weed out the things your H complained about that you know aren't true & work on the areas you see can improve

6:38 Pelagius: Cricket2 @ 6:36, thanks. My h did say I have handled myself with class and dignity, and in moments of sanity called me a remarkable woman. I guess I am realizing I just have to let him get back to himself.

6:38 Pelagius: HoneyGurlTina @ 6:37, so she did go with him then?

6:39 Cricket2: Tamashii - I am happy for your news. This is how it was with my H. I had no clue of any issues with H until they separated. You have a perfect way to let her know you'd sent flowers that were returned, worried for her.

6:39 joyk: I have ordered the bible and the 31 days of praise. They still have not come. My H does have another woman and another life. He does have a separation. I am afraid of false hopes when we get together. I do know he has to find his way without my directions, as this is what drove him away.

6:39 Pelagius: Cricket 2 @ 6:37, of course, will do. Cricket, I have found myself again since he left, I've lost weight, I love my looks; sometimes I have looked back and thought maybe HE was toxic and I didn't know how to respond. His stepson told me h was cruising the Internet and chatting when he visited in 2003! I think my h has been in MLC a long long time, and I was hoping he'd burn through it this year. I guess not.

6:40 Yoli: TiredB2: That's wonderful. You're probably right to only say it after he says it to you. the last time that I actually was in the car with him, I told him that I loved him. So at least it was the last thing he heard.

6:40 Cricket2: Pelagius - RIGHT. I'd use this time to work on you, hobbies, take a class, do things you haven't given yourself time to do and that will also help you heal. Work on things to rebuild your self esteem & draw closer to the Lord. Let the Lord heal H

6:40 Tamashii: Crick: Explain this further to me in email.

6:41 joyk: Jim, Thank you. I do need to meet in a time of strength. I am looking forward to getting the 2 books.

6:41 Lia: Pelagius, my H was always doing anything he wanted & expected me to be able to handle things alone, yet they c/o they didn't feel needed - EXCUSES & JUSTIFICATION. One thing I've really learned is with abuser & personality disorders, is that even if

6:41 HoneyGurlTina: Jim, LOL and that is a great idea. I need to start getting to bed earlier at night, so I can get up 30 mins earlier, so I can get that done.

6:42 TiredB2: Honey : @6:37 sorry to hear that....so she did go then?

6:42 joyk: Good night, all.

6:43 Pelagius: I feel guilty, gang, because I am doing so much better without him; I enjoy my friends without feeling guilty. I enjoyed my presentation today and being with friends and colleagues from all over campus. He has no career goals or desires to (cont)

6:43 Pelagius: (cont) do good things with his retirement years. He is confused about what will make him happy.

6:43 Lia: Pelagius cont: they say hurtful things & pick fights that being defensive or allowing abuse isn't good. Wish I knew how then to set better boundaries Our behavior isn't dependent on theirs it sometimes fuels the fire. hard not to feel victimized or on

6:43 Cricket2: Pelagius - This journey destroys our self esteem so anything you can do to work on that & grow in yourself is helpful and makes us more attractive to our H too. Most important is for us to feel good about ourselves again, then we can heal/grow/forgive

6:43 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:41, thanks. I take comfort from having it around.

6:43 TiredB2: Yoli@ 6;40 I gave my h lots and lots of space.... was friendly, I had my moments of pain, but worked really hard to never let him see it or hear it.....I didn’t always succeed, would just pick up the pieces and try to be more calm next time

6:44 HoneyGurlTina: Tired, well..... I don’t know for sure yet, because my H told the little girls he went alone when they asked him, but I am pretty positive she did. I will find out probably tomorrow or wed.

6:44 TiredB2: Yoli and sometimes we would giggle because I would yell More....meaning I loved him more... it broke the ice some times....

6:44 Pelagius: Cricket2 @ 6:43, yes, I feel if my h comes home I will never trust him again. Perhaps I believed too much in him, and in this colleague at work who helped start our program. Somehow I have spent a lifetime believing more in other people than myself and God. I am a people person, but I take it too far.

6:44 Cricket2: Pelagius - HOWEVER I spent my whole career as a cop and I do not want you to be in abusive relationship. Protect yourself.

6:44 Hannah2: goodnight all, have a great Tuesday.

6:45 Lia: Pelagius cont: defense. It makes them feel powerful, lose respect for us & later they feel shame, but blame us for their bad behavior. It's good to remember- RESPOND, don't react. Sort of like quick to listen, slow to speak & slow to anger different that

6:45 Pelagius: Cricket 2 @ 6:44, I promise. My h is the most gentle soul in the universe, nothing like my first h. My h would never harm anyone.

6:45 Lia: Pelagius cont doormat or controlling!

6:45 Pelagius: Hey Jo2 and musthope!

6:46 HoneyGurlTina: Jim, while being separated, should I never ask my H for anything, like he used to take my car into his work to get the oil changed and I got a discount, is it ok to still ask him to do this, or should I do all of this stuff on my own?

6:57 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: HoneyGurlTina: Look for a natural opportunity to mention the car thing to him - but don't let the discount create some kind of barrier between the 2 of you. In other words, if it irritates him that you ask, it would be better to get it done on your own.

6:46 Pelagius: Lia @ 6:45, my h is a doormat when it comes to OW! It is so painful!

6:46 Cricket2: Pelagius - Thank you, I'd be worrying about you otherwise. You will need to work on your healing so you can forgive and learn to trust. It takes time but it is possible.

6:46 TiredB2: HoneyGurlTina: I know that hurts, he will see the real reason for it all one day..... it’s a journey for them and for us.

6:47 Pelagius: Lia @ 6:45, seriously, I should have noticed something was up with h when he started withdrawing and became really passive.

6:47 Lia: Pelagius, I think Jim has even said they stay with ow longer than they should & they allow ow to take control remember they need their "fix" Mine is same, I understand how painful it is I’m sorry!

6:48 Pelagius: Lia @ 6:45, I hate to pat myself on the back, but I have gotten a LOT better at not reacting. Sometimes I'll quietly freak out until I figure out what to do, but I NEVER respond immediately to anything he does.

6:48 Cricket2: Jim -We have walked at times as that's healthy & he used to be a runner & kept weight under control running. It's hard for him not to run but we do walk at time, but could do more. We golf a lot together but that isn't great on his back. But I agree.

6:58 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Cricket2: Normal walking is generally easier on the body than golfing. You might find other activities such as swimming as another low body impact activity.

6:49 Pelagius: Cricket2 @ 6:46, I hope so. I think my h is the only person I ever really and truly trusted not to hurt me. Lia @ 6:47, that's helpful. Yes, he has already overstayed his welcome! ;)

6:49 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:48, thanks!

6:50 Pelagius: Lia, I know that sometimes h's who come home grieve the loss of the OW, even if the h chooses to end the relationship. But I know of some who come to really despise the experience and no longer love the OW. That's what I’m really hoping for.

6:51 Lia: Jim, Since my H has always needed more & more stuff, prestige & entertainment to fill him up is that part what keeps them deep in MLC if ow has lots more play time & less responsibility? Mine is constantly eating out, being entertained & having "fun" even if it's leisurely bike ride with her before work He goes in & leaves business whenever wants & is in fog when there despite partner working butt off. I would have died for 1/4 time he has playing before & he has more now Is this trying to change brain chemistry with endorphins too, trying to make everything look so great? I did/would have done ANYTHING with him!

7:01 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lia: Part of a man going through a midlife crisis is that he is trying to catch up for all the fun he missed when he was so committed to work. That's why the spontaneous, carefree, girlfriend is so interesting to him - he can get a break from work and just play awhile. This is a good time for you to start doing fun and spontaneous activities so that when your husband is starting to reconnect, he will discover that you are a fun spontaneous person, and that he doesn't need the ow.

6:51 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:51, yes, she is certainly feeling isolated! And she has come to the attention of the people at the top of the organization - and not in a good way!

6:52 HoneyGurlTina: Pelagius @ 6:50 Me too

6:52 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:51, she has lost the last three jobs she's had; she pulled a coup and ran off a senior pastor and the presbyters wouldn't give her the job! Good point, thanks!

6:52 TiredB2: Jim@ 649-thank you.... and you are right he pursued me hard when we first met.....I was really skeptical then, but I fell over cupid one day.

6:53 Pelagius: HoneyGurlTina @ 6:52, I know reconciliation doesn't mean he'll come running home on a white horse with roses in hand, but gee, I really do wish I could hear him say, what was I thinking? How could I EVER put us at risk like that?

6:54 Pelagius: TiredB2 @ 6:52, me too! He is a really great-looking guy for his age, but I fell in love with his looks LAST! He grew on me!

6:54 HoneyGurlTina: Pelagius @ 6:53 me too, I wouldn’t mind the white horse and roses either. LOL

6:55 Pelagius: HoneyGurlTina @ 6:52, that's the thing. I’m exhausted. I don't think I have the energy to reconcile. I was bargaining with God the other day; I said, Lord, my h said he thought he was home to stay last time. Please don't let it be the next time?

6:55 TiredB2: Pelagius: it’s wild how they affect our hearts...... and then to flop backwards..... oh my...... it’s been great to watch him come back to NORMAL little by little.... day by day

6:56 Lia: Jim 6:49 to tired B Do you think H practically moving in with ow immediately after he left going on intimate vacation in 5 weeks & saying loves her & may marry her within few short mo is good reason to think this will flop sooner, esp H being with me 26 y

7:05 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lia: It's no so important to figure out what's going on in his mind - rather to work on the things in your relationship which may not have been meeting his needs. I want you to change your focus - stop trying to figure him out - rather spend that energy of figuring yourself out.

6:56 HoneyGurlTina: Jim, is it better to only contact my H when it has to do with the kids, or other business matters? Or is it ok to call him just to talk? He hardly ever calls me, so I kind of feel stupid calling him.

7:06 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: HoneyGurlTina: Look for legitimate reasons to make contact with him, and continue to surprise him by your positive, upbeat, and affirming attitude.

6:56 Pelagius: HoneyGurlTina @ 6:52, then I asked myself, what are you thinking? IF he wants to come home, let him? The last time, he said, well, I’m not on a white horse, but my truck is white...will that do? Three days later he was gone again.

6:56 Pelagius: HoneyGurlTina @ 6:52, the next time he calls and wants to come home, I might just have to say no!

6:57 Tamashii: Pelagius: I read Corinthians every day. Love keeps no record of wrongs. Don't worry about the explanations or apologies...

6:57 Pelagius: TiredB2 @ 6:55, you've been doing this a long time; I hope you enjoy every second of the NORMAL h as he makes his way back. You've done this with grace and dignity and aplomb - good for you!

6:57 Lia: Pelagius 6:50 Talk to restored & cricket, I think they can confirm those thoughts! I pray God to open both their eyes, bring truth repentance, salvation to both & break that soul tie & reveal the devastation of this while showing them sweet forgiveness & salvation!

6:58 Cricket2: Tamashii - Any more news on your W's whereabouts? Although we don't need to fix things, He will lead her to you or you to her.

6:59 Pelagius: Lia @ 6:57, you are such a great encourager! I really think your optimism in the midst of all you're going through is fantastic.

6:59 TiredB2: Pelagius : I think I remember Bob S say that they come home,. but the guilt really gets to be too much. until they repent and do as got expects they will keep running in and out of our lives....its part of their journey. Jim am I stating it right?

7:00 Cricket2: Jim - I agree, I feel that he ends up golfing more than he should as he lives on course so if bored, goes to golf. I've suggested swimming which he says bores him. I've suggested that if he practices, he'll get better & it's better cardio. His best friend also worried about too much golf & is working with him to get into wood working, trying to teach him there are more things/healthier than just golf. I think he's finding himself since retirement & divorce from OW, Insists happy

7:10 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Cricket2: Suggest to him that you swim in your backyard pool after 10 pm at night with all the lights off and maybe other things off as well. He may find that swimming is very interesting. Also, it's great that his best friend is trying to get him into woodworking. Keep exploring other options which may give meaning to his life. I sometimes encourage men in this stage of their life to think about an adventure vacation, or a serving vacation - something where the 2 of you would be contributing to another culture. This kind of serving gives people a sense of purpose in their lives and might really catch his interest. Suggestions, a trip to Africa to work with orphan kids, or help build a school at a mission location, etc. etc. Some people who have started serving like this have had giant emotional turn-around.

7:00 Pelagius: Yes, Tamashii, any more leads on location?

7:00 Lia: Pelagius from Tamashii 6:57 That's so right I pray for opportunity to just show that love & forgiveness right now anything, even love, kindness & forgiveness are net with hostility I pray H can someday receive those things from me & of course the Lord!

7:01 Pelagius: Cricket 2, wow, I really need to exercise more. I've been approved for an apartment that has a swimming pool and workout room and plan to move at the end of the summer.

7:01 kmkrn1: ALL - Just catching up on my emails.....great news Tamashii! Good night all and God Bless everyone.

7:02 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: I'll be taking all questions that came in by 7 pm PST. Before anyone logs out, I want to thank you all for coming. Please come again and invite your friends! Remember; the Sun./Wed./Fri. sessions are open to share and encourage each other, with the assistance of our trained facilitators.. The Mon. session is primarily a Q and A time with me in the room. Chat room hours are: Sunday, Wednesday and Friday: 6-7 pm Pacific Time. Monday (live chat with me): 6 to 7 pm Pacific Time. NEW Saturdays at 1:00 pm PST. Jan and I will keep all of you in our prayers this week. I look forward to talking with you again next Monday. Goodbye everyone, and God Bless.

7:02 Pelagius: TiredB2 @ 6:59, wow that really helps a lot. He lasts exactly three days; shows up on Friday night, the middle of the month, calls between 11:45 and midnight, leaves Sunday afternoon, but comes back Monday for his stuff. Leaves more stuff each time...

7:02 Cricket2: Pelagius - Exercise will really help you emotionally. I've always worked out/exercised a lot all my life, especially as a cop and being small it was important. In all of this, exercise really helped me emotionally as well as appearance. So good

7:02 Lia: Pelagius 6:59 That means world to me part my H's justification is to designate terrible traits to me that he probably doesn't like about himself of just to make me look awful, he said I was negative, but my heart has never been that way I work critical

7:02 Pelagius: TiredB @ 6:59, like he's "inching" his way back home.

7:03 Pelagius: Lia @ 7:00, I think good is often met with evil, but I think good ultimately triumphs.

7:03 Lia: Pelagius cont care & God has given me lots of compassion so for someone to see that makes my heart leap. Thank you!! That statement is making me cry!

7:04 TiredB2: Pelagius @ 702 little blessings ..... I know it hard to watch him leave again..... every time I came back to work it was like I would never be allow to come home again...... but our times have together more &more, closer & closer together

7:04 Pelagius: Jim @ 7:01, that is great advice. My h is very spontaneous. And the OW doesn't work; she lives on child support and welfare. He doesn't work now either! They just stay at home and have fun. While I work and pay the bills. I guess I AM boring! ;)

7:05 Pelagius: Lia @ 7:02, my colleague at work "projects" every mean trait about herself onto other people. She says our boss is unethical, but this woman overspends her budget big time. My h is behaving the same way, and so does his OW. I feel awash in crazy people, even if I DO recognize what they're doing...they're still doing it! ;)

7:05 Lia: Jim 7:01 I agree with that I used be really spontaneous but H always needed my stability & still does I once told him I thought he forgot I was woman & wanted to be the girlfriend ! It's so hard leave kids behind now & find funds to do lots fun stuff

7:05 Cricket2: Pelagius - AT first my H & OW did all these things together but after my H married her, she refused to do many of things he enjoys. It was like once she got him, she revealed her true self. This happens even if they don't marry the OW, time shows

7:06 TiredB2: Good night all have a great week........

7:06 Lia: Jim but I' m working butt of landscaping & home improvement taking kids camping alone want skydive & repel maybe!

7:07 Pelagius: TiredB2 @ 7:04, yes, I would rather have the opportunity to see him than not. My sister says I am providing him with a little window of sanity. I may be boring, but opposites attract, and I help stabilize him and keep him from flying off (cont)

7:07 Pelagius: (cont) the ether - always have. All of his family thinks I help keep him grounded.

7:08 Lia: Jim Good advice 7:05 hard to switch gears after so many years caring for everyone else & bending I know it's one of my struggles I pray for joy & just relax & laugh again!

7:08 Pelagius: Cricket2 @ 6:05, it's already happening! He complains she won't go out to eat with him, but he says she won't because she expects HIM to pay! When we used to go out, we didn't care who paid, we just liked to sit on a porch and enjoy a nice (cont)

7:09 Pelagius: (cont) meal together. I just hope it doesn't take forever for her to show her true self. She DID say if he would divorce me she'd love him like he'd never been loved before. He thought that was odd - you know, like strings attached...

7:09 Pelagius: TiredB2 - good night!

7:09 Pelagius: Tamashii - keep in touch!

7:10 Lia: Cricket 7:05 to Pelagius I think H's ow actually scoped him out & looks for guys like my H her other men were sane my H outdoorsman, mine had more money & high energy level. She pushes men to marry her immediately & invest them in her with activities &

7:11 HoneyGurlTina: Good night all, have a great week.

7:11 Lia: Cricket cont her kid! But God will reveal. She's/they are under satan's lies too & God warns of this kind woman a lot!

7:12 Pelagius: Jim, Lisa, and everyone, thank you! Jim, your advice to Cricket @ 7:10 will be helpful down the road when h and I begin to reconnect . Thanks again, all!

7:13 Pelagius: I will pray for everyone; Jim, thanks for the objectivity. It is so easy to get swallowed up in the daily interactions and lose sight of the big picture. Thanks!

7:13 Lia: Cricket Would your husband do Pilates or Yoga I teach Pilates & had herniated almost non-existent L5-S1 disc & could do nothing for while, but my back is very strong from Pilates It's great to stay in shape, but also therapeutic, relaxing & rehabilitating

7:14 Pelagius: Good night all!

7:14 Cricket2: Lia - Yes that is often the case because as I've said, they have their own baggage and don't feel worthy of a real relationship. These OW are damaged and in their own pain and pursue men in their own pain. They don't feel worthy of others

7:15 Cricket2: Lia - I over my Pilates machine - bought from a TV ad but pretty good. He is a member of a gym but always worked with weights. He did Pilates in physical therapy. He was fused at L5 S1 and I think a problem at L6 too.

7:15 Lia: Cricket & Jim I just heard today that 150 orphans in India are out on streets because conditions their & Hindus are very hard on Christians, lots orphans in India Royal Family kids prayer intercessors is great ministry there! check it out I'd like my kids

7:16 Cricket2: Lia - My H also has nerve damage that causes pain to shoot down his leg to his foot that is like some putting hot ice picks in his foot.

7:16 Lia: Cricket cont learn compassion & not be so spoiled!!!!!

7:18 Lia: Cricket try get him go back to beginners mat Pilates class & slow down on weights, long, lean muscles & it may relieve pain, chiropractics saved me & ICE not heat or even ultra sound He really needs work on that ever so neglected core like all us!

7:18 Cricket2: Good night all.

7:18 Lia: Thanks Jim!

7:19 LisaK [Administrator]: I’m back. Jim left a bit ago from the Chat Room, but we needed to talk business a bit. So, I’m back to close up. Say your goodbyes while I pray for us. I'll close up at 7:21.

7:20 Lia: Cricket earlier about OW H's ow already had guy like H more gentle guy I think & he was going to propose to her on tri[p they planned for 2 mo after my H came in picture & now ow has been talking about forever with H since start!!!!! crazy or what!

7:20 Cricket2: Lia - I agree. It seems that he's lost if he can't work with weights. He's been away from the gym for 2 months after an issue with tennis elbow but I wish he'd try things like Pilates. Can't be to mothering so I suggest carefully & leave it to him

7:20 LisaK [Administrator]: Father God, You are our strength. Enable us to admit and face our problems and then to deal with them. We know You are always by our side. Thank You. It’s in Your Holy Name we pray, Amen.

7:21 LisaK [Administrator]: Create in me a clean heart, O God, And renew a steadfast spirit within me. (Psalm 51:10)

7:22 LisaK [Administrator]: It's time to close now. Bye everyone. I hope you can make it for the Wednesday chat at 6 pm PST. Bye.

7:22 Cricket2: Lia - This is very typical. My H moved quickly too but Jim said it too, you need to turn your focus of your H's actions, they will drive you crazy. They have to try these quick fixes to hit bottom. Focus on you, where you can grow, heal &trust God

7:22 Lia: Cricket call me & I can suggest a few specific activities for him!

7:22 Cricket2: Lisa - Thanks much, have a good week

7:22 Cricket2: Lisa - AMEN

7:23 Lia: PTL Lisa!!!!

7:24 Cricket2: Lia - He's a member of a gym, we've both worked out our whole lives and he's worked with a physical therapist many times who have made suggestions. Now it's up to him, one of things I've worked on as not being to nurturing & let him fix him.

7:24 Lia: Makes sense cricket! lead horse to water right!

7:24 Cricket2: Lia - But thanks much. I agree there are several things that would help him.

7:25 Cricket2: Lia - Yes, when he's ready, I'll be ready and I'll remember you are a resource

7:25 Cricket2: Lisa - Thanks again, have a good night.

7:26 Lia: All still hate these legal quandaries H's put us in I'd do nothing if he didn't mess with finances so much pray for discernment for me & this please

7:26 Lia: wish we could talk hours sometimes!

7:11 LisaK [Administrator]:
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