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Sept. 28, 2009 / With Jim Conway

6:09 Lily3: Jim, my question is this: how do you recommend you treat someone in mlc? My h moved out for 5 months and is now back but hardly talking to me. Besides praying, is there anything I can do? Should I treat him kindly or treat him as he treats me?

6:25 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lily3: Remember to understand his needs and what he is struggling with in all the areas of his life, it's better that you give him lots of affirmation. Think back to the man he was 5 years ago and compliment on those positive areas. Remember also to do the changing that you need to do so that he wants to be with you.


6:50 Lily3: ALL: In your experience, should I try to talk to my h about "us" and problems we are having? Anytime I try he gets mad and says he doesn't want to talk about it but how will anything ever get better if we don't try to work it out?

7:06 LisaK [Administrator]: Lily3: I'd highly suggest that you spend time working on yourself. Grow spiritually, mentally, and give yourself a makeover. You'll capture his attention as he sees you becoming a more interesting person. I'd suggest the DVD series, Love and Respect. Also, the movie Fireproof.

  

6:52 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lily3 - most of us who have tried to talk about "us" wish we hadn't. They have so much going on in their heads that they don't understand, and when we try to pin point the topic of us with them, they become frustrated, they can't figure it out themselves, so how are they supposed to explain it to anyone else.

  

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Announcing the

2009 ANNUAL CHAT ROOM RETREAT

Please consider joining us for the 2009 Annual Chat Room Retreat. It will be in South Bend, Indiana, October 9-11, 2009. There are sessions with Jim and Jan Conway, and time to visit and share with your Chat Room friends. There is no fee to attend the Chat Room Retreat. Attendees are responsible for their own transportation, food, and lodging expenses. Some scholarship funds are available to help those in need of financial assistance to attend. Please contact Lisa at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. for more information and to be on the Chat Room Retreat Informational email list.

___________________________________________________________________________

5:58 LisaK [Administrator]: Good Evening. Welcome to Monday Night Chat with Jim. I’m Lisa, the Office Manager for Midlife Dimensions. I’m blessed to serve the Lord through our Chat Room Ministry which has helped so many people through their spouse’s midlife journey. Jim Conway will be online with us shortly and as he reads your questions, he’ll dictate his answers for me to type and post for you to see. He will answer all questions that come in before the end of the hour. If you would like to show your appreciation to Jim, you can make a tax-deductible contribution to Jim’s ministry via Paypal at www.Midlife.com. Funds support the Chat Room and Website upkeep. Thank you.

6:01 LisaK [Administrator]: "Your Father knows what you need before you ask him" (Matthew 6:8). Heavenly Father, thank you for this verse and this promise. Please help us to know that you do know exactly what we need, which is why sometimes you answer our prayers with a "yes", and sometimes with a "no". Because you see the big picture, you can save us from things that we are asking for that may even be bad for us. Thank you for the safe place we can come and talk, help everyone to learn and grow from tonight forward, and trust you every step of the way. In Jesus' Name. Amen.

6:02 sbky: hello

6:03 Surety2: Hello all

6:04 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Hi everyone. Great to be here with you tonight.

6:04 Swanlake: Hello everyone

6:05 Lia: Hello to all!@

6:05 sbky: all. I know this is for mlc. but I would like to ask that you all keep my aunt in your prayers. she has went through one round of radiation for pancreatic cancer and the results are not good...

6:08 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: sbky: Lord Jesus, we are glad that you are concerned about everything that concerns us. From the smallest details to the large life changing events. And so we pray that you will just work in this Aunt's life, and draw her close to you in a personal intimate way. In Jesus' Name, we ask. Amen.

6:05 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lily3, WELCOME! I’m Jim Conway, President of Midlife Dimensions. This room is here to encourage you and answer questions you have about your current situation. Important: Do NOT share personal information such as an email or home address, phone #, or any names. Here’s how to join in: 1) Type the name of the person you want to speak to followed by your entry. 2) You’re limited to 250 keystrokes per entry. If your entry is long, then click ‘chat’ to post it and start your next entry with the word ‘continued’. 3) Type ‘To All’ if you have a general entry not directed to one person. 4) If you’d like to contact someone in the room, email or call us at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. or 714-768-1777. We’ll have them contact you to exchange information.

6:05 Lily3: Hi everyone!

6:05 Surety2: Jim: in the big picture..... does God ever say no to whether our marriage is restored or not.

6:13 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Surety2: God's plan from the beginning is that a husband and wife would remain married, but His plan also included the choice of each individual to either follow God's plans or ignore them. So, yes God wants your marriage to be together - but He is not going to force the 2 of you to stay married - God wants you each to make the positive choice to stay married to each other. That's why I keep asking people the questions, "why would your mate want to be away from you - OR what could you do to make being married to you more wonderful?"

6:07 Lia: Jim: In your experience, if our H's don't seem to have ANY desire to work on things & don't seem to have ANY ambivalence about their decision to leave, ie leave don't look back once they do, they plan leaving out well in advance, & seek legal help from the start, are they less likely to return? So many of these women have had H push a lot less for D 7 have at least some positive contact, more cooperation & kindness than I see?

6:21 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lia: It's hard to project what's going to happen on the basis of how much the husband seeks legal help - the legal issue does not seem to be a major factor in whether a husband comes back or not. However what does strongly seem to indicate whether he will come back or not is 1) if a wife understands her husband's needs. 2) if a wife understands why a husband wants to be away from her. 3) If a wife chooses to meet his needs and eliminate factors which may be helping the husband to choose to be separated from his wife. I've also strongly urged women to listen to what men complain about and try to make those changes - these are the issues that are more involved with bringing the marriage back together than any husband involvement with a lawyer.

6:09 Lily3: Jim, my question is this: how do you recommend you treat someone in mlc? My h moved out for 5 months and is now back but hardly talking to me. Besides praying, is there anything I can do? Should I treat him kindly or treat him as he treats me?

6:25 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lily3: Remember to understand his needs and what he is struggling with in all the areas of his life, it's better that you give him lots of affirmation. Think back to the man he was 5 years ago and compliment on those positive areas. Remember also to do the changing that you need to do so that he wants to be with you.

6:10 Lia: sbky 6:05 Dear Holy Father, we come to you in agreement that You touch SBKY's aunt & grant her peace, comfort, & a healing miracle in the name of our Savior Jesus! Amen

6:12 sbky: all. thank you for your prayers

6:12 sbky: all my mom lost a brother in June to lung cancer, I can’t imagine going through this again so soon

6:12 Lia: Lily3 As hard as that must be, PTL he is home. Scripture says do unto others as you would have them do unto you, love those who persecute you & suffer for what is right. Have you read the Love Dare Love & Respect or Jim's books?

6:15 faithfull: All Had a horrible evening. I blew it acted like a fool in front of h and cried my heart out. To top it off he named my d12 by another women he is talking to on internet. I am devastated. I am tired of trying. Please help. Jim at 6:21 how do I find what he wants he tells me he does not know what he wants. I have tried to be more than kind and not raise my voice but it still not enough.

6:31 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: faithfull: Has your husband had an opportunity to read "Men In Midlife Crisis"? Also, has your husband had a recent general physical exam - he sounds to me as if he is struggling with depression which might be physically related or job related.

6:15 Lia: Jim 6:13 I agree completely about that second part, but don't you think some people have so much damage, that it doesn't matter what we do/did & also don't people sometimes lie to themselves for years & years about who they are?

6:29 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lia: yes it is true that people discover more about themselves at midlife, and sometimes these discoveries will affect them so they will make some radical moves - like a separation. On the other hand, sometimes people at midlife will finally begin to work on some childhood issues and become stronger more effective people.

6:16 Lily3: Lia, Yes I have read Jim's book Men in MLC but it was back in March when my h first left. Should re-read it now. I don't know how long he is back for. Tells me he is deciding IF he wants to be married and only came back for the kids.

6:17 helpme: Swanlake; Hello. How was your day today?

6:17 sbky: lia I am so afraid my h is so stubborn that he will keep running. but I know God can get his attention

6:17 Lia: Faithful 6:15 I’m confused about the internet thing & how did you blow it. Remember God forgives & you can ask Him to rebuke the conversation & wipe it from H's mind, or turn it around for the good. Nothing is impossible with God!

6:18 faithfull: sbky at 6:17 that is how I feel, he is so proud he will never come back. He is falling so behind on his bill and does not even care.

6:18 Swanlake: helpme - doing good, how about yourself?

6:18 sbky: faithful he tries to make everyone think he is divorced..

6:19 Lia: Lily3 6:16 It wouldn't hurt re-reading it & from what I've read they can go in & out of stages. Be in your prayer closet about EVERYTHING, fast & pray against ALL negativity & ask Holy Spirit to shine in you Win H without a word says Bible!!!!!

6:19 faithfull: Lia at 6:17 he was having an ea with a girl on internet when he left now he is talking to different women and I am sure there are more. I was aware of the possibility but when it comes to reality it just hurts.

6:20 Pelagius: faithfull @ 6:19, I’m so sorry. I remember how I felt when I found out he'd been online registering at dating and porn sites. It hurts so much.

6:21 helpme: Swanlake; ok I guess. H was by this evening, I learned dil is only going to let us visit with son one day the whole time he is in...H is angry about it...I am down hearted about it

6:21 Lily3: Lia Great advice! Thank you! I needed some positive encouragement.

6:21 Lia: SBKY 6:17 I understand, mine is so proud other men, mutual friends, say that will keep him away. I ask God & he showed me how in Daniel where Nebuchadnezzar said Nobody can ward off God's hand & He humbles the proud!

6:21 faithfull: Pelagius I knew he was doing it but when he calls his own daughter by her name that is just wrong.

6:21 Pelagius: faithfull @6:18, I understand how it might seem that he is too proud to come home. That's what I expect of my h.

6:22 Pelagius: faithfull @ 6:21, agreed. Sometimes I find it so hard to be compassionate and not be angry at the horrible things he's done. When does the crisis, the illness, become something that means they lose touch with right and wrong? I don't know, but they sure do.

6:22 Swanlake: helpme - wow, h was there the other day and back again today - whoo hoo. Well, she does have difficulty sharing what she believes is her time with your son with anyone including you and his father. But keep in mind with her, things tend to change

6:23 sbky: faithful.. my h took my d to see his ea(she was a "friend" of ours) I don’t think the man had ever seen me so mad.. he has never ever done that again..

6:23 Lia: SBKY Cont: Also look what he did to Saul, it says also in Isaiah I think some things about God's will Always winning he made sure Jonah went to Nineva, etc..... God says His will is marriage, He says we get our desires & whatever we ask in His name

6:23 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: To EVERYONE in the room. I am having a difficult time reading your questions tonight because I had cataract surgery 6 days ago. It is hard for me to read the screen - especially in the evening. So Lisa is reading the questions to me and we are going to try to stumble our way the chat room tonight. We'll see how long this works and if we'll be able to get through the whole hour. Thanks for understanding.

6:23 Lia: SBKY Cont we will receive!!!!! PTL

6:23 Swanlake: helpme - continued - and we will have to pray they change for the better.

6:23 sbky: Jim, we are praying for your quick recovery

6:24 Swanlake: Lisa - any word on your husband's test results yet?

6:30 LisaK [Administrator]: Swanlake: no not yet.

6:24 Pelagius: All, my lawyer is bringing real financial pressure to bear on my h with her response to his divorce filing. He has stopped taking substitute teacher assignments, probably to establish that he can't afford to help me with our obligations.

6:24 Pelagius: The lawyer's reply also requested he demonstrate proof that we had agreed on a property and financial settlement, which he claimed in the filing. She is exposing him on every count.

6:25 Lia: Faithful 6:19 Rebuke that spirit of adultery & all those bonds in the name of Jesus. Lusts trap many men & God can break that stronghold! Be in the prayer closet for sure. Without a word remember, listen, affirm, support, love You can do it w/ God

6:25 Pelagius: Jim, I am so sorry you're recovering from surgery. Eyes are a very sensitive area; I lost one when I was two.

6:33 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Pelagius: I admire who can work with limitations such as yours for all of their life.

6:25 Pelagius: Surety2, hi, how are you?

6:25 Surety2: JIM@605.... I understand your questions, but what if they do not give you any clues.... I only hear h have lost that feeling and h is sorry it’s all his fault

6:34 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Surety2: perhaps we can talk more at the retreat about your situation and some of the things your husband may be going through.

6:25 helpme: Swanlake; It's almost funny that H comes to vent about dil now....this is certainly a change. I want to cry at the thought of only getting to see son for one day during his visit home.

6:26 Surety2: Jim: my Mom had surgery too and sees things and wrinkles she never knew she had

6:26 Pelagius: Surety2 @ 6:25, same here; he has been ecstatic about my weight loss, but other than that, he says I didn't do anything wrong...that it is him.

6:26 faithfull: Lia I have been nice and compliment him when he comes around, I do not bring up any issue but lately I have been having a hard time. I just have not been praying enough.

6:26 Pelagius: Surety2, hush, when I put on my trifocals I see stuff I got away with denying was there! ;)

6:26 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: TO EVERYONE IN THE ROOM, because I’m having trouble reading the questions, I’m going to encourage you to direct some questions to Swanlake or Helpme. They are facilitators for us, and they are wonderful women of God. I'll continue to take a few questions as we can read them.

6:27 helpme: Swanlake; When H comes by or calls I let him do most all the talking....

6:27 Lia: Pelagius My lawyer made sure there is insurance so H must pay all obligations & also if he reneges on anything, other holdings revert to me!

6:27 Swanlake: helpme - cry and then cry out to God to work on the situation, anything is possible with Him.

6:27 Lia: Jim praying for complete healing!!!!!

6:28 Pelagius: Swan, any idea what is up with this financial thing with him? His OW, who is on welfare, MUST be helping financially, because he runs out of money mid month. Why does he need someone to support HIM? What kind of man won't work? !!!???

6:28 faithfull: Helpme I am sorry about you not been able to see your son.

6:28 helpme: Swanlake; So True!!

6:28 Swanlake: helpme - that is good, because it must be comforting to him and why he keeps seeking you out to talk to about these matters.

6:28 Pelagius: Swan @ 6:27, truthfully, I am so totally okay if he never comes home. Is that horrible?

6:28 Pelagius: MAS!! HI!

6:29 Lia: Surety2 Sometimes I don't think they know what they want or they want it all. My H don’t know himself & probably NEVER knew me. He had sooooo much damage, he's been running, avoiding, hiding & blaming much of his life

6:29 Pelagius: helpme @ 6:27, does he say things that hurt you sometimes, like talking about OW?

6:30 helpme: MAS; Hello & welcome! Glad you could join us :) How are you?

6:30 Pelagius: Lia @ 6:29, mine too. I told my sister that my has a hole in his soul big enough to drive a mack truck through; his sister has been married three times, has three kids with three men...his younger brother's been married 3 times...ugh.

6:30 faithfull: All my h does not care that he is losing his D and family everything we had together. He is so proud because he talks to so many people on the internet and plays a lot of different games. Must be nice

6:31 Swanlake: Pelagius - many of them during MLC have financial problems, some file bankruptcy, it is pretty much just like with their families, wives, etc, they are running from their financial responsibilities. As long as they can earn or find someone who will

6:31 Lia: Pelagius My H tells EVERYONE how he felt extorted, even though our agreement wasn't near as bad as it could have been & tells everyone good thing OW makes XXX amt money, Please I made that in 2days/week & she doesn't make as much he says it's sad!!!!

6:31 MAS: Pel/helpme: Hi! I was just trying to catch up.

6:31 faithfull: Jim I gave him the book and he read only a little bit. He told me he did not have the money to support himself let alone get help. He refuses to go see the doctor. MD prescribed medications but he refuse to take it he refuses he has depression. He also does not take Vitamin b complex. He is refusing all help.

6:40 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: faithfull: I’m sorry that he is refusing help. He may be afraid that if he gets better that he'll have to restore the marriage. Keep working on yourself and trying to understand his needs so that he wants to restore the marriage and he is motivated to get healthier. Also, talk to me a little bit about any job problems that he may be having - frequently a man who is unhappy in his job will go into depression, marriage break-up, running away, etc etc.

6:32 helpme: Pelagius; No, he doesn't. He may say 'ow said....' but that's about it. Keep in mind H has been gone over 3 yrs., he has done that in the past but he has changed in that area

6:32 Swanlake: Pelagius - continued - provide for them, they can't care about financial issues.

6:32 sbky: all. how do you deal with the loneliness.. I know I have God here with me. But I had someone lay with me most every night for 20 years,, and I miss having someone to hold me.. to know that someone loves me.. an earthly partner.. is that wrong

6:32 Surety2: Jim/Pelagius: what do we do when they say it’s all them and they are sorry... I will not give up praying for h

6:43 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Surety2: generally, men don't want to tell you the truth so they try to avoid the issue by saying it's not you, it's me. By that he means there's something wrong with me when I can't love an angry controlling crabby woman who weighs 250 pounds, never combs her hair, refuses to clean-up the house, and continually belittles me and the children. So he is saying it's all my fault, I’m a bad man because I can't love you the way you are. Now you realize I’m exaggerating this story to communicate a point - what is it that he doesn't like about you and your marriage that he's afraid to talk to you about? What is it that he's trying to ignore because he doesn't want to start an argument?

6:32 Plumcrazy: Jim-I have a question. Our 21st anniversary. is coming up. the other night he gave me a dirty look when I called him my H. Last yr H didn’t even acknowledge our 20th ANNIV. H is severely depressed. Says he hates himself. Hopes he won’t wake up. H has taken to hitting himself in the head the last few months if there is any discord in the house or I show too much concern for him. H say there is a crawling bug in his head buzzing and itching. I am concerned for him

6:46 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Plumcrazy: It's important for him to have a thorough physical exam. Do you have a doctor that he trusts - who might probe some of emotional needs? Also, what is happening with his job? - remember that 75% of a man's identity is wrapped up in his career - if it's going badly - then a big chunk of the man is emotionally troubled.

6:33 Pelagius: Swan @ 6:32, yes, he used me to get back on his feet and now he's left me. His cheating ex-wife got a great alimony/child-support deal, and he had nothing.

6:33 sbky: plum I went to Vegas the first year my h was gone.. but yours is there

6:33 helpme: Pelagius; When he would though I would not pay any attention to it...kind of like let it go in one ear & out the other so to speak

6:34 Pelagius: Plum @ 6:32, amazingly, after my h filed for divorce, he still came around and told me about the times he went to the doctor and said "my wife" and I went to a specialist...or he'd tell me to tell the cable people that "my husband" found (cont)

6:34 Swanlake: Pelagius - feeling like you many not really want them home is actually common, we tend to replay everything and when doing so, we often play the scenario of how it would be if they don't come home and given the way they are acting, it sometimes seems

6:34 Swanlake: Pelagius - continued - like the better deal.

6:34 Lily3: sbky 6:32 I joined a prayer group and met lots of new people. Also went back to school. Try to stay busy and you won't think about it as much. But it is still lonely, just not all the time.

6:35 Pelagius: (cont) their extra cable. I thought he was testing the waters. But I had warned him three months ago that I KNEW divorce would hurt me, make me feel like ultimately and finally rejected. He filed anyway, and I was right.

6:35 Pelagius: helpme @ 6:33, good for you.

6:35 Lia: Pelagius sounds like H's family unfortunately 6:30

6:35 Pelagius: Jim @ 6:33, thanks. Doctors can do a lot more now with eye surgery than they could back then.

6:36 Surety2: Jim @ 634 that would be great thank you

6:36 sbky: lily3 I work full time have 9 hours of college classes and two teenagers.. so I don’t have much time to think, but it still hits sometimes

6:36 Pelagius: Swan @ 6:34, thank you for validating my feelings. I don't have to worry about it anyway, until/unless he asks to come home or suggests he wants to reconcile.

6:36 helpme: Pelagius; I will not say it was easy at first, but that was one of the things I had to continue to give to the Lord.

6:36 Pelagius: Swan, even if I don't want him back, I don't want anyone else either. It's not like I want to date - ugh!

6:37 Lily3: sbky 6:36 yes it does. Right now that is the hardest part for me. I lost my best friend.

6:38 sbky: lily3 I did too!!!!!!!!

6:38 Pelagius: ((((Lily3)))) @ 6:37, I remember that feeling; I lost my best friend too.

6:39 Surety2: it sue feels like that.... that we lost our best friends

6:39 helpme: Libby; Hello & welcome! Glad you could join us :) How are you?

6:39 Libby: Hello Jim and everyone

6:40 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Faithful - many times when they have done things they know hurt others, they have guilt and some have even said, they don't deserve to get better or they are getting what they deserve. It helps them to stay in the self-pity stage. Also, they are trying to grab at youth and they were healthy then, therefore, have a hard time admitting there is anything wrong with them, even when a doctor says so. Unfortunately, this sometimes leads to self-medication, commonly by drinking.

6:40 Lia: Jim cont: EVERYTHING was/is wrong. There really isn't anyone close to me or otherwise that sees me like H does. I seriously don't think he knows himself. He used say he had NO compassion & he generally hates people. That all makes sense, but I was changing most of our marriage to his whims & he surrounds himself with people who indulge him, who he can blame, those he doesn’t have be close too & can leave no prob. According to Husband, EVERYTHING was/is wrong. My lawyer said my H's lawyer is still confused to what the problem was. The 2 are friends & H doesn't have reason. They think he just didn't want be married, just fun. All people we know come up & say how H had it made When I asked I heard :

6:58 LisaK [Administrator]: Lia: I’m sorry Jim had to go before we could get to these questions. You know Lia, "It is what it is". Stop looking at it from the outside and seeing how easy he had it, I believe you that he did. All of us here believes that. BUT "It is what it is" and you need to look at where you are right now. Stop trying to figure it out. You never will. God is completely trying to protect you from something, so be thankful for where you are in the journey. I know you probably feel that people are judging you, especially as a Christian, but ignore all that. Know that God has your best interest at heart, and He sees the big picture, and this is all for a reason. Trust Him and be thankful for your trial, as it tells you to in the Bible. You have nothing to complain about, God totally loves you, God is totally on your side in this. Your husband is lost and confused. At this time, your husband is not the same man you married. That man might come back, he might not. In the meantime, connect with God as your spouse, as you are the bride of Christ. Trust Him and enjoy the ride.

6:41 Plumcrazy: Swan -What you said I have heard come out of my H’s mouth

6:42 faithfull: Jim 6:40 that is what I think he does not want to get better because he knows he will have to give up the internet and talking to ow on internet. He has always liked his job. Never complain in the past. He is just unhappy with everything.

6:59 LisaK [Administrator]: faithfull: Sorry Jim had to leave before getting to your question. Keep giving him affirmation, show him unconditional respect. Love him and bless him.

6:43 Plumcrazy: Swan-My H is unhappy with his job since this started

6:43 Lia: Jim Do you think some people refuse to feel guilt or have no sense of guilt? Do you think some people who bully desperately want correction & someone to say enough to them? My H doesn't seem to respond to kindness @ all!

7:00 LisaK [Administrator]: Lia: Keep being kind and respect him unconditionally. It's like heaping burning coals onto him (from the Bible). God wants you to continue to bless Him. Although - God wants you to protect yourself and not be his doormat. You have to find the balance and go forward.

6:43 faithfull: Jim his desire is to meet ow and see if things would work out or not that is what he told me but he cannot afford to fly there or bring her over.

7:01 LisaK [Administrator]: faithfull: Does he have any men friends who can talk to him about this. We know it's a crazy idea, but he won't listen to us. He needs to hear from those who have "been there - done that" and will tell him that's the wrong path to follow.

6:46 Pelagius: Jim, thanks for spending time with us this evening. Hope you heal well and quickly from the surgery. Lisa, so sorry to hear Geoff is dealing with fever again (and antibiotics). My prayers are with all of you. Take care!

6:46 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - one day my husband asked me what kind of man I thought he was. I told him that I know he is a man of honor and integrity. He got a very sad look on his face and said, maybe I was, but now I am a heartless jerk, I don't care about anyone and hate everything in life. I simply said, I knew he is still the man he had always been and nothing he does will change that for me. He got choked up and went for a walk, was gone for a couple hours. They may act like everything is wonderful, but inside they are beating themselves up. The bad thing is there comes a point then they have to release that and it is usually onto us.

6:46 Lia: Jim 6:43 Do you think some people are just mean & controlling themselves? In my experience, it's the people pointing fingers, attacking another's character, who are the ones that see those complaints in themselves instead & are projecting & justifying

6:47 Plumcrazy: Jim -H is unhappy in his job. Wants more of a challenge. But appreciates that he has a job and he just got a 5,000 a yr increase. they want to keep him

7:03 LisaK [Administrator]: Plumcrazy: Wondering if he can find a challenge by taking some internet courses to improve himself and use that to climb higher on the ladder at work?

6:47 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: ALL - I hope to see you at the chat room RETREAT, and perhaps we can answer some of the questions that we have not fully tackled tonight.

6:48 Plumcrazy: Jim-Last yr I called h's Dr. cause he was threatening suicide. More as a way to control me I think. Cause 10yrs ago he had nervous breakdown and I found him with a razor

7:04 LisaK [Administrator]: Plumcrazy: He's crying out for help. My husband did something similar when we went through this a couple years ago.

6:48 faithfull: Jim I will not be able to come due to my 5 years old has started having separation anxiety and do not think it will be good for me to be away.

7:04 LisaK [Administrator]: faithfull: oh, I’m so bummed.

6:49 Lia: Swan I said those things to my H too. He has said I don't have worry because my soul is safe. He accused me of being this awful person nobody else sees & I believed it for long time, but no more I write prayers now for him about how God sees H

6:49 Lia: Swan cont. I hope & pray H actually does hear the kind things I say & believe.

6:50 Plumcrazy: Swan: Just read what your H said sounds so much like my H

6:50 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - as you said, "complaints in themselves and are projecting" - yes, it isn't so much that they are just mean and controlling, but more than they are hurting and feel their lives are spinning out of control, therefore... Hurting people for some reason tend to hurt those around them and when they cannot control their own life, they convince themselves that if they can control everything else around them, their life will fall into line too.

6:50 Lia: Faithful 6:48 can she stay with grandma?

6:50 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: ALL - at the retreat, Jan and I are planning to have a question and answer session where we just talk about issues which are important to you. I'd encourage you to start making a list of your questions to bring along with you.

6:50 Lily3: ALL: In your experience, should I try to talk to my h about "us" and problems we are having? Anytime I try he gets mad and says he doesn't want to talk about it but how will anything ever get better if we don't try to work it out?

7:06 LisaK [Administrator]: Lily3: I'd highly suggest that you spend time working on yourself. Grow spiritually, mentally, and give yourself a makeover. You'll capture his attention as he sees you becoming a more interesting person. I'd suggest the DVD series, Love and Respect. Also, the movie Fireproof.

6:51 Plumcrazy: Jim, H got very upset I called his Dr. and didn’t go back for months. H said I had no right to do that. H says his health is none of my concern

7:07 LisaK [Administrator]: Plumcrazy: I called the cops when my husband tried suicide. Your husband got off easy. :O) (I know it's not really a laughing matter).

6:51 faithfull: Lia no grandma is not around but we even have problems with him wanting to go and stay with his dad. He does not want to leave my site things I am leaving him to.

6:52 Surety2: Pelagius: I am good how are you... been down trying to catch up reading

6:52 sbky: goodnight all..

6:52 Lia: Swan 6:50 I think that's why they end up with OW who live such nasty lives. They feel like success, because they feel they are rescuing OW from her miserable life & in my H's case this woman seems prey on men who are vulnerable

6:52 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lily3 - most of us who have tried to talk about "us" wish we hadn't. They have so much going on in their heads that they don't understand, and when we try to pin point the topic of us with them, they become frustrated, they can't figure it out themselves, so how are they supposed to explain it to anyone else.

6:53 faithfull: have to go and get kids ready for bed. Talk to you all later.

6:53 LisaK [Administrator]: ALL - I’m back as myself now. Jim couldn't hold out any longer. Sorry about that. It's almost 10 pm for him in Mich. So, his eye has had enough work for the day and was just quitting on him.

6:54 Lia: Lily3 Try to just have fun, relaxed, stress free, flirt & try new habits don't dwell on past They say stupidity is doing same things over & expecting different results. Too much pressure to talk about it it's failure to them make him feel respected

6:55 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - bullies are usually very insecure people who are trying so hard to not let anyone see this or other pains within them, that they lash out to keep a degree of distance. It is a safety measure for them.

6:55 sbky: Lisa I don’t understand some of the stuff Jim said earlier,,6:43 but I will bring that up at retreat. it was almost like he was blaming the wife for the h leaving..

7:10 LisaK [Administrator]: sbky: Jim was exaggerating to prove a point. There's many things that husbands are upset about, but don't want to hurt their wives, so they don't tell the wives what's hurting them. They'll say, "it not you, it's me". It definitely takes 2 to make a marriage work, 1 person is not to blame. But - when the men get to this stage, that's all they see -- that it's all the wife's fault. They don't see their part in the marriage getting stale. In the man’s mind — everything that bothered him about his wife, marriage, and life, is all triple-exaggerated in the husband’s mind.

6:55 Lia: Lily3 cont: & successful. Praise him for what works, just be REAL, relaxed, gentle, kind, approachable, listen & affirm but have fun!!!!!!!!!!!

6:56 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: faithful - then I would say continue to praise the Lord for keeping your husband or this woman from finding the finances to fly her over. God works in many ways and this may just be one of them.

6:56 Lia: Faithful, I understand, this is soo hard for them, mine are teens & they came in my room to sleep with me on & off for a year almost they vent ALL their anger onto me too, because I’m safe I guess It is soooo hard!

6:57 sbky: lia I understand that. my d sleeps with me a lot.. and when I tell them to talk to dad. they laugh and say. he doesn’t care

6:58 Lily3: ALL I am new here and must thank you all. I have learned more from this hour tonight than I have in the 2 years my h has been going through this. Thank you and God Bless!

6:59 Lia: Swan I noticed even @ start if I tried tell H joke, ask him opinion about project, ask him about health, his business, his hobbies, he is still NOTHING but a brick wall. He still treats me as non-human or like I never existed It's hard

6:59 Surety2: Jim @ 643 and we can’t ask them to spell it out can we......

7:11 LisaK [Administrator]: Surety2: They probably can't do it. Until you start to change, and they start seeing changes, then they realize what they've been missing in their marriage.

7:00 helpme: CindyJ; Hello

7:00 CindyJ: hi helpme and everyone. I just got home and stopped in to say hi.

7:01 Surety2: Jim he always asks me how I can love a grumpy old man

7:01 faithinme: when we detach and expect nothing from them are we not enabling them?

7:12 LisaK [Administrator]: faithinme: I'd say you're trusting them to God. We do need to step out of the way and let God be the Father and discipline them. We can't act like the 1st born sibling - and try to parent them. That will not work.

7:01 Plumcrazy: Lia-I know how you feel

7:01 Lia: Swan 6:55 Amazing It took this to see my H is bully type. He's also proud. Most people only see his success & his drive, his go & do personality. I think he had lots of people fooled. Verbal abuse is pretty damaging all those years

7:01 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - often they will say they act like that because they don't want to give us false hope. However, some who have returned home say it was to create distance and/or to cause us to get fed up and leave them. If we leave them then it isn't their fault/ Some of the ways they attempt to rationalize their actions are anything but rational.

7:02 sbky: swan I believe that was what my h's ea was for. to make me take the actions for a divorce.. but it didn’t work

7:03 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lia - sadly people do not just wake up one day and they are insecure, it is usually developed over many years (their childhood years to be exact) and is a great contributor to MLC.

7:03 Lia: sbky 6:55 They would have left no matter what, but God wants us all to grow throughout our lives. Don't ever take responsibility for H's choices Many people have the world when they leave we can only do & change what we can no more

7:03 helpme: 'Heavenly Father, I ask that You wrap Your loving arms around everyone here tonight. Lord, You know their pain, and may Your Holy Spirit to rise up strong within each and every one. In the Name Of Jesus, Amen'

7:04 faithinme: amen help me...thank you

7:04 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: All - it is time to close for tonight, please join us again on Wednesday evening.

7:04 Plumcrazy: Swan- At the beginning of this I asked h what he wanted me to do. h said "Tell me to leave and not come back till I get my shit together!" But I didn’t cause I was scared he would never come back

7:04 sbky: lia I remember telling my h when he left "do you know how many men would love to have what you are leaving ?" he said yes. but that was just an answer

7:04 Lia: SBKY 6:57 They can't be kind parent they need to be right now. It's like they have to go back & fill in their own gaps & re-do their own childhood & teen years Just help them love him as best as they can!

7:04 Plumcrazy: Lisa he has been taking more classes/workshops that are paid for by his work

7:05 helpme: God Bless Each And Every One! In my prayers, good night

7:05 faithinme: good night all

7:05 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Plumcrazy - as much as they do, it is also important that they are not "the bad guy"

7:07 Plumcrazy: Lisa, can you tell me more about what your H did and what I said that showed H was crying out I go kinda lost

7:07 Lisak [Facilitator]: Plumcrazy — I’ll send you my story by email.

7:07 Lia: Lisa K 6:58 I realize this, I do. I know God is after H & can’t work on him until the distractions are out of his life, & there were/ are many. I am trying be prepared for things to get really bad, as painful as that thought is. It probably will need get

7:07 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lisa - I need to take off, talk to you later.

7:08 CindyJ: Good night!

7:09 Lia: Lisa K cont: bad, but I know God will never fail nor forsake. It's frustrating to never get answers from H about what bothered him but I think it was everything, he couldn't live in his own skin & that must be hell itself, so H can't answer my ?

7:14 LisaK [Administrator]: 7:09 Lia: Don't expect a report card. It's going to be all F's. I know that my husband felt I was getting straight F's in everything when he left me, and felt he was an A+ husband and dad.

7:09 Plumcrazy: LisaK-I was going to but H said he is afraid if he goes in the hospital/psych he won’t come out

7:09 sbky: goodnight all

7:10 Plumcrazy: LisaK_ He used it as a threat cause he knew it would make me leave him alone cause of past history

7:15 LisaK [Administrator]: Plumcrazy: he needs more help than you alone can give. He needs intervention by men in his church or from his job, men that he looks up to.

7:10 sbky: Lisa ok.. that makes more since..

7:10 sbky: thanks

7:11 Plumcrazy: LisaK, h said he was too worried that if there is an afterlife that he would be punished for committing suicide

7:15 LisaK [Administrator]: Plumcrazy: yes - I agree with that. He should not play God and choose when to end his life.

7:11 Lia: Lisa 7:00 That's what I’m doing I know God put us together & will win this. I am probably the only person who ever really loved H unconditionally ever & that will NEVER change I wish he could stop running, surrender to God & feel safe & loved

7:12 Lia: Swan Mine pushed so hard & still after separation I’m not sure he feels free I hope he stops running soon. Yes I heard false hope thing too

7:13 sugarmama: what is the false hope

7:13 Plumcrazy: Lia-You sound a lot like me!

7:13 Lia: Swan 7:03 I think there are MAJOR attachment issues from early on with his mom & then she abandoned him as teen plus d when he was 6 lots bad influences in life & little contact with his dad

7:14 sugarmama: that is what my kids say I am having I beg to differ

7:14 Lily3: LisaK 7:06 Thanks! I will follow your advice. I saw Fireproof and will get Love and Respect. Great advice.

7:15 Lia: Plum how's that I bet we have lots of beautiful things in common, not just messed up lost H's right!

7:15 Lia: Lisa K so true of all these guys I bet LOL!!!!! I bet God gives us an A+ We are princesses after all!

7:16 Lia: Lily3 Great advice from Lisa Love & Respect is awesome! Check out their video clips on their website too!

7:17 Plumcrazy: Lia, I would hope so. Lots of bad things have happened to me in the past. H knows about them and he was victim of molestation at age 3 by a group of teen boys and victim of sex abuse by an aunt from 10-13

7:17 LisaK [Administrator]: I haven't been to the hospital yet today to see my husband. So, I better give the kids a kiss hello and goodbye, and run over to visit him.

7:17 LisaK [Administrator]: Please, come back on Wed. night and try to come to the retreat if you can!

7:17 Lily3: Thanks everyone! Goodnight!

7:17 Plumcrazy: Lia-I am now reading books on these things cause I see things he says might be connected to that

7:18 LisaK [Administrator]: Good night.

7:18 Plumcrazy: Goodnight all

6:09 Lily3: Jim, my question is this: how do you recommend you treat someone in mlc? My h moved out for 5 months and is now back but hardly talking to me. Besides praying, is there anything I can do? Should I treat him kindly or treat him as he treats me?

6:25 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lily3: Remember to understand his needs and what he is struggling with in all the areas of his life, it's better that you give him lots of affirmation. Think back to the man he was 5 years ago and compliment on those positive areas. Remember also to do the changing that you need to do so that he wants to be with you.


6:50 Lily3: ALL: In your experience, should I try to talk to my h about "us" and problems we are having? Anytime I try he gets mad and says he doesn't want to talk about it but how will anything ever get better if we don't try to work it out?

7:06 LisaK [Administrator]: Lily3: I'd highly suggest that you spend time working on yourself. Grow spiritually, mentally, and give yourself a makeover. You'll capture his attention as he sees you becoming a more interesting person. I'd suggest the DVD series, Love and Respect. Also, the movie Fireproof.

  

6:52 Swanlakejgs [Facilitator]: Lily3 - most of us who have tried to talk about "us" wish we hadn't. They have so much going on in their heads that they don't understand, and when we try to pin point the topic of us with them, they become frustrated, they can't figure it out themselves, so how are they supposed to explain it to anyone else.

  

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