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December 06, 2010 / with Jim Conway

8:43 PM [dogwood] Jim-- thanks. He repeatedly told me that he is not going to rip me off, he is always proud of his ability of providing for the family financially. It seems an insult to him when I question the finance. He thought I am greedy and lost my spiritual characteristics... but I know that I must need some advice no matter what he says, it probably will make him very angry

8:47 PM jim: dogwood at :43, I have been through enough of these situations that I strongly urge you to get a lawyer who can very ably and strongly protect you. Yes it's going to cost money, but yes he made this decision which has logical consequences.

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December 06, 2010 / Monday Chat with Jim 6-7 pm PST / CR#2

8:08 PM jim: ALL - I'm ready for your questions, let's get going.

8:10 PM [mariposa] hello everyone.

8:11 PM [plumcrazy] Hello Dogwood ---Hope you are doing better

8:12 PM [faithful] plum how did it go.

8:13 PM [plumcrazy] Doveseyes---Fri morning I went to get D up for school She wouldn’t get up grunted then growled. I tried to get her up by pulling on her hand Then I picked up her school stuff and told her to come down She told me to put her stuff down and when I didn’t she kicked me and sent me flying across the room into her closet SO I called the police on her

8:13 PM [Bluesky] mkdmlc. hey friend, haven't seen you in awhile.

8:13 PM [hepsy] hi lalachrissie - how are you?

8:14 PM [doveseyes] plum...ohhhh wow...I am so sorry...was that the first time something like this happened?

8:14 PM [mkdmlc] Bluesky yes, this is the busy season for me. tonight I just happen to be in the office

8:14 PM [faithful] doveseyes how is your daughter

8:14 PM [Bluesky] mkdmlc end of the year stuff?

8:14 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy Hi. I'm ok. Last night the power went out in neighborhood.

8:14 PM [doveseyes] faithful..ok...just ok...

8:14 PM [mkdmlc] Bluesky How are you and what's going on with you?

8:15 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie - wow.. how long?

8:15 PM [plumcrazy] Doveseyes --Sadly no this is the second time. I told her the 1st time if she did it again I was going to call the cops. H didn’t help me then or Fri

8:15 PM [dogwood] All--I am in terrible shape. got the bomb last night. H left this morning for a month, last night, he asked me what is my plan regarding the separation, I told him that my thought stays the same, I do not want a separation. He got really mad and said that he is suffocating in the house, when he returns in January, he is moving out. I had long talk with him asking why he does not consider reconciliation that will relieve his struggle. Finally , he told me straight that he wants to keep the liberty of multiple relationships besides just Wife. He has found a potential condo, and has transferred some of his account to his name only, etc. Please pray for me, this might be the direction indicating that I need to prepare myself for separation.

8:20 PM jim: dogwood at :15, It's time to get some legal advice.

8:15 PM [faithful] all h just left he dropped off the boys. Is so hard and have to keep myself from holding his hand of asking a dumb question like when is he coming home.

8:15 PM [Bluesky] mkdmlc just heading down the path I didn't want. There is basically no contact anymore with h.

8:15 PM [doveseyes] plum...I tell you...I thought today..can't we schedule crisis/conflict? one at a time..is she still in the home.

8:15 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy I'm not sure when it came back on, went to bed early b/c I was exhausted anyway.

8:16 PM [Bluesky] mkdmlc how about you? Have you heard from h at all?

8:16 PM [plumcrazy] Doveseyes--Yes she is.

8:16 PM [hepsy] dogwood - I am sorry... how are you holding up?

8:17 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie - well last night you said you had been keeping busy and then you signed off -was it due to the power outage?

8:17 PM [mariposa] dogwood: (Hugs). So sorry.

8:17 PM [dogwood] Jim-- please read my latest happening at 6:12; I think I would be the first casualty. Nothing is working here. H told me that he is not MLC; he has made up his mind.

8:17 PM [mkdmlc] Bluesky normally gone most of Nov so now catch up time. I have not heard from h since divorce and probably won't for awhile

8:17 PM [doveseyes] Hello Jim..well, my question is..how do you die to your marriage and still stand? My h is back on line. He is pursuing a friend of my son's girlfriend. S is soooo embarrassed..I am sick of the whole thing. My kids want me to divorce...oh Moses.. up on the mountain...what's your wisdom

8:22 PM jim: doveseyes at :17, Basically standing means that you are committing yourself to let God work in the marriage, that you are not going to initiate action toward a divorce. So surrendering your husband and marriage to God is crucial to standing.

8:18 PM [Bluesky] Jim, I have a male friend who has been calling me for advice. He knows my situation (h and wife are long time friends) and he is feeling like he wants to leave his wife because he doesn't get any attention from her. I have talked him in to getting counseling. They are close to empty nesters and he is he one struggling. Any advice?

8:23 PM jim: Bluesky at :18, both of you are in a very dangerous situation - it's crucial that he gets counseling from a male counselor.

8:18 PM [plumcrazy] FAITHFUL---We saw a probation officer and they said she needs to go to counseling and psychiatrist and stay out of trouble. That it was not right to hurt her Mom because she didn’t want to go to school. They also told her she was wrong she can NOT quit school at 16 (Dec.27) She has to go till she is 18

8:18 PM [dogwood] hepsy--I am staying in the empty house tonight, or, I can drive 30 minutes to stay at my daughter's. don't know what to do though

8:18 PM [mkdmlc] dogwood I so sorry. I so glad you trying talking with him

8:18 PM [faithful] jim h email me back regarding our daughter problems I have been having and do not want to read too much into but he made a comment that hopefully she will learn that there are consequences to her actions.

8:24 PM jim: faithful at :18, your daughter's situation is a normal teenage type of problem - treat it that way.

8:18 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy yes, was forced off. we were busy all day yesterday. Drove for over an hour to take a train for an hour to cut down a tree with friends. It was really fun.

8:18 PM [hepsy] dogwood - I hope you are trying to stay calm and not panic..

8:19 PM [faithful] jim also he said we instead of you referring to raising our kids. In the past he has said you will do a good job raising the boys now he is we.

8:19 PM [mkdmlc] jim My h is in the withdrawal and depression stage and have not heard from him since d. I want to send a Xmas card to him and his family with a pic of me with Santa. Is that appropriate?

8:25 PM jim: mkdmlc at :19, for now - avoid the Christmas card unless it is extremely funny.

8:19 PM [faithful] dogwood I am so sorry for your pain.

8:19 PM [doveseyes] jim..my h also called and said he wanted to d and work something out after Christmas so he could be with kids. Nothing is stopping h now from being with kids. Only his busy dating schedule..sos..

8:26 PM jim: doveseyes at :19, stall the divorce as much as possible.

8:20 PM [dogwood] hepsy--I get really panic at home so sad that we have a very nice home which I used to enjoy all the time, but now, it becomes sad to me here

8:20 PM [faithful] doveseyes do any of your kids want to see him?

8:21 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie - that's nice..It is good to stay busy and do fun things. It is also good to laugh - something we forget to do when in crisis like this.

8:21 PM [doveseyes] faithful..no because h acts "weird"..preoccupied with his women friends

8:21 PM [plumcrazy] JIM Had an incident with D Fri morning. I went to get her up for school she growled at me and didn’t want to get up I told her to get up and pulled her hand to try and get her up, She wouldn’t get up So I picked up her school stuff and come down. D told me to put her stuff down and when I didn’t she kicked me and sent me flying across the room into her closet I called the police as this is the 2nd time she has done something like this. I told her 1st time if she did it again I would call the police H didn’t stop D either time

8:22 PM [doveseyes] Jim..I am also having problems out of my s17..isn't doing schoolwork/ not attending class (I home school)..don't want to tell h about this because he will blame me..sos..sos

8:22 PM [hepsy] dogwood- I know.. in the beginning I felt the same - too sad here with things the way they are.. but actually now, it is not as bad..I am used to it and am finally enjoying my alone time. At least when h is at work I don't have to walk on eggshells.

8:23 PM [dogwood] Jim-- Thanks, H got angry when I try to ask for more than 50%; he gets in rage and saying if I try to stop him and keep him by manipulating and asking for more share, he will stay but will certainly make it very very miserable for me. He wants to just divide between us and keep us legally married. do you think that is a good idea? or, should I push for legal?

8:23 PM [Bluesky] hepsy I enjoy my alone time too.

8:23 PM [plumcrazy] JIM--Ended up in court this morning. H is very angry with me. He is embarrassed because he work for the city and the police station is in same building. He knew the officer that came out Fri and knew the one who delivered paperwork to the court. He said YOU did this now she has a record because of you

8:24 PM [Bluesky] jim I understand

8:24 PM [doveseyes] jim at 22..surrendering...ok...so will you evidently come to a place of feeling nothing...

8:24 PM [hepsy] bluesky - since you got through Thanksgiving - what will you plans before Christmas?

8:24 PM [Bluesky] hepsy just my kids and me, I guess.

8:24 PM [dogwood] hepsy-- glad that you are used to the situation

8:25 PM [hepsy] dogwood - I know this is very painful for you right now... but try not to give into the fear and the "what ifs". Remember God will take care of you... you just have to trust Him..completely...

8:26 PM [mkdmlc] jim thanks. Card is cute but not funny. Hey, that is a good laugh for me!

8:26 PM [plumcrazy] JIM----D is one rank below black belt,. 1st time she did this was before retreat. After that is when I started having such trouble with my knee

8:26 PM [mariposa] dogwood: Is he talking about just separation or divorce?

8:26 PM [lalachrissie] jim- last week h accidently cancelled my visa card & ordered me a new one & I asked him the day before if he would let me know when he deposited money for my bills. I assumed that he would mail me the new card, b/c he said he tried to have the bank mail it to me but they wouldn't. today I received an email saying he has my card and that he should be depositing money tomorrow or the next day & asked if the kids have mentioned wanting to see him. I don't know where he lives and have not seen him in over a month. kids told him they will let him know when they will see him. should I respond to his email? btw, yesterday was our anniversary.

8:28 PM jim: lalachrissie at :26, please condense your comment into a short question for me.

8:26 PM [doveseyes] Jim..honestly, it gets hard surrendering to God...I don't know why I think I can handle things better than Him. It gets discouraging as time goes on..and things continue to get worse and worse..at times I feel I have a crisis of faith...

8:28 PM jim: doveseyes at :26, try just surrendering your husband and your marriage.

8:26 PM [plumcrazy] Hello Cindy

8:27 PM [doveseyes] Jim25..do you stall by refusing to meet..or what?

8:30 PM jim: doveseyes at :27, stall by encouraging your lawyer do everything he can to slow the process down. Usually there are at least 30 days time before each process deadline and many other modifications can be asked for in between each deadline. Be creative.

8:28 PM [dogwood] hepsy-- If I can't stay by myself in the house, I feel that I need to plan to leave my work and move to be with my son and his family where I will have all the support and happy with grandkids. the problem is what to do with our house here. H probably wants to keep it. I don't want to see him moving a OW in.

8:28 PM [hepsy] bluesky - have you spoken to your d since her visit with h over Thanksgiving?

8:28 PM [Bluesky] hepsy yep, but not about him.

8:29 PM [hepsy] dogwood - if you left your work, would you be able to find another place of employment easily?

8:29 PM [dogwood] Jim-- do you suggest to let him move out without settling the finances legally and wait for a while? He is very determined to begin his new life.

8:32 PM jim: dogwood at :29, Stall and get some legal advice so that you're prepared if your husband does push you.

8:30 PM [doveseyes] Jim..it’s so hard when you watch your children so hurt by all the sickness and mess...they want me to d husband...

8:32 PM jim: doveseyes at :30, this is the time you are going to need to be strong, I encourage you to read “31 Days of Praise” by Myers, may be ordered through http://astore.amazon.com  · · · dlife-20.

8:30 PM [hepsy] dogwood - as for the house - you can't worry about what h does or does not do. As Jim says, you should get legal counsel and see what they say.

8:31 PM [dogwood] hepsy-- I can retire from my job (although I used to love my work), and try to keep busy with grandkids and church or volunteer in their town, or office.

8:31 PM [faithful] doveseyes my d13 just told me she does not want h back. I just do not know what to tell her. I tell her is what God wants.

8:31 PM jim: ALL: I may have missed some questions, PLEASE ASK SHORT PRECISE QUESTIONS FOR ME.

8:31 PM [doveseyes] jim at 30..ok..I assume you have seen success in situation where the d is stalled...why does this work?

8:33 PM jim: Doveseyes at :31, stalling gives more time for emotions to settle down and for pain to dissipate. It also gives you more time for growth and change so that your husband sees you as a growing person.

8:31 PM [dogwood] Jim-- do you suggest to let H move out without settling the finances legally and wait for a while? He is very determined to begin his new life.

8:32 PM [plumcrazy] JIM --Did you see what is going on with D and H's reaction? Any advice? Cricket and swan told me I did the right thing calling police

8:32 PM [swan] Jim - If you didn't see plumcrazy's comments - her daughter is being physically and verbally abusive to her, husband who lives at home does nothing to stop it. Cricket and I both told Plum she should take police action against daughter before she seriously injures Plum.

8:34 PM jim: plumcrazy at :32, Cricket and swan gave you the right word.

8:32 PM [MarySarah] Jim last Monday later in session I asked about a teenage child who was over enmeshed with the parent who leaves. Do you think if that child is rebellious to the more settled parent & is so enmeshed with a parent like our spouses, that the child's rebellion can push our spouse into MLC or make it worse? does the rebellion & childish behavior of both make them feed off each other?

8:37 PM jim: MarySarah at :32, children have always used parents against each other whether the marriage is strong or shaky.

8:32 PM [MAS] Hello everyone.

8:32 PM [faithful] doveseyes I told my h he had to file if he wanted a d I am still waiting over a year now.

8:32 PM [plumcrazy] welcome back MAS Feeling better?

8:32 PM [mariposa] Hi MAS

8:32 PM [dogwood] jim-- Thanks,

8:32 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy how are you tonight?

8:33 PM [doveseyes] faithful at 32..my problem is I am finically dependent on H..and h has cut my money ..claims has none..but yet dates women..aughhh

8:33 PM [MAS] plumcrazy Yes, much better, thanks! What happened in court today? I came onto chat late.

8:34 PM [mkdmlc] all, got to go. Hope to be back before the holidays. You're always in my prayers.

8:34 PM [MAS] Hi mariposa, how are you?

8:34 PM [doveseyes] 33..jim..I really don't think H cares about my growing..H has an addiction and hasn't slowed down..

8:34 PM [faithful] doveseyes that must be tough, I am so sorry. Have you talk to an attorney.

8:34 PM [Bluesky] doveseyes I am too, financially dependent on h. It is very daunting.

8:35 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie - I am sorry I forgot your anniversary was yesterday...did you restate your question to Jim - I think he missed it. I am doing ok. Just another day...

8:35 PM [doveseyes] faithful34..in the works

8:35 PM [plumcrazy] MAS--We didn’t see Judge was handled by probation office. They told her to go to counseling, take her meds and stay out of trouble or she will be dealing with the courts. If she doesn’t end up with another complaint against her they will erase her record

8:35 PM [dogwood] Jim--is it best to let H file separation or divorce? If that is the case, I should also need to have a legal adviser to review H's proposal, is that right? I know that he does not want to spend money for legal fees

8:40 PM jim: dogwood at :35, most husbands want to get divorced without any cost but you need a lawyer to protect your rights.

8:35 PM [MarySarah] Jim as follow up it is our oldest. I always felt since my H had little to no guidance & spoils our kids so much(actually uses his money to obligate them as well as they saw him withhold attention & affection from me if he didn't get his way) It seems she was competing for position with me & my H always ended up not backing me ever. He never seemed to want to do any disciplining them until this one in particular whined to daddy. Our relationship is still strained & it seems she revels in us being apart like there is some dramatic draw to his affair & ow do you see this ever?

8:41 PM jim: MarySarah at :35, I think your daughter is taking sides and it may be that she does have an overly strong admiration for her father.

8:35 PM [MAS] plumcrazy: So, no psych evaluation was ordered, then?

8:35 PM [doveseyes] bluesky..it's a terrible place to b..I hate it..the bad part is this is the most money my H has ever made...

8:36 PM [plumcrazy] MAS--No but she has an appt with her psychiatrist coming up so I will ask about it

8:36 PM [faithful] doveseyes my h to was on a roll he went to England and even brought her over this summer with what money I do not know but he did. Well this summer they repossess his car and now he is financially broke. Sometimes it take a while and we have to just let them down. They may be happy now but it will catch up to them.

8:36 PM [mariposa] MAS: Feeling blue today. Had a good week with a lot of attention from H last week and then this morning I saw his car at OW's apartment. Ugh...

8:36 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy I didn’t restate, not really sure how to reword/condense it so he understands the circumstances. it's ok though. don't think I plan on answering the email from h. I think he knows to send me the card if he wants me to have it & I know when there will be money & he knows the site. with the girls

8:37 PM [Bluesky] doveseyes it is, because it is what we agreed on, and now he is leaving me quite scared financially for the future.

8:37 PM [faithful] mariposa I am so sorry. I think that is the hardest the rollercoaster ride.

8:38 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie - so, you got through your anniversary ok?

8:38 PM [MAS] plumcrazy @36: That's good. Hope D's therapist can offer some helpful advice.

8:38 PM [Bluesky] plumcrazy can you push the appt a little sooner?

8:38 PM [mariposa] faithful: I never drive by there but was running an errand that took me straight by her place so I couldn't help myself but to look and sure enough his car was there.. So frustrating. Just when I thought we were doing better.

8:38 PM [doveseyes] all..I had a friend share a sobering email recently about a man who lived a life of sexual immorality..and died a sad, lonely, and painful death. it broke my heart because without God's mercy on my H..that is where he is headed. This man never repented..even in the end..no peace was made with his wife...

8:39 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy I did. I kept busy with our friends. My sister's husband is also visiting for a few days so I'm ok.

8:39 PM [mariposa] doveseyes: I'm worried the same for my H.

8:40 PM [faithful] doveseyes at 38 that is my fear for my h. His dad also die all alone without kids or wife. But h does not seem to care.

8:40 PM [doveseyes] 39..mari I know..it was so sad to read..and hard to believe things weren't resolved before he died...

8:40 PM [plumcrazy] FAITHFUL---Counselor said let D deal with her decisions He said wake her up and then ignore her If she goes to school or does her work that is on her. He said not to appeal for her to get credit for her missed work from when she was sick because she isn’t working on it like she is supposed to after we had a meeting for her at school

8:40 PM [MAS] faithful @36: Yes, it seems my H is starting to have financial issues (not to mention health issues) as well. Guess what goes around comes around.

8:41 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy I think I’m going to go. girls want me to make them something to snack on. have a nice evening, chat with you on Wednesday.

8:41 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie - I am glad for you... Anniversaries can be hard... as well as holidays.. I may have asked you already but are you making Christmas plans? (I hate not being able to remember what I ask and what to whom!! Goodness!)

8:41 PM [plumcrazy] FAITHFUL---The counselor says if she doesn’t go to school then I can file paperwork with the court showing she isn’t doing what she is supposed to

8:41 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie - go and enjoy them. I will be praying for you.. Take care..

8:41 PM [doveseyes] 40 MAS..my H too is supposedly "broke"..I think proverbs says a man who pursues an immoral woman ..his wealth is reduced to a loaf of bread..the most expensive loaf I have found is around 7.00

8:41 PM [faithful] mas that is true we just have to wait and let God work. All we can pray and hope is that they will see the light before is too late.

8:41 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy we don't really have big plans for Christmas. girls want to be home with me all day

8:42 PM [MAS] mariposa @36: Oh, I know just how you feel. That's what happened to me a few weeks ago, too. Only it was the other way around. OW's car was at my H's house. VERY upsetting.

8:42 PM [faithful] plum so that is what you need to do is back off and let her suffer the consequences. I know is not easy but we do not do our kids any good but trying to protect them.

8:43 PM [dogwood] Jim-- thanks. He repeatedly told me that he is not going to rip me off, he is always proud of his ability of providing for the family financially. It seems an insult to him when I question the finance. He thought I am greedy and lost my spiritual characteristics... but I know that I must need some advice no matter what he says, it probably will make him very angry

8:47 PM jim: dogwood at :43, I have been through enough of these situations that I strongly urge you to get a lawyer who can very ably and strongly protect you. Yes it's going to cost money, but yes he made this decision which has logical consequences.

8:43 PM [hepsy] night lalachrissie...

8:43 PM [MarySarah] Jim :41 So what do I do with that?

8:48 PM jim: MarySarah at :43, it would be best if we chatted by phone since this is a rather extended discussion.

8:43 PM [lalachrissie] all- goodnight

8:44 PM [faithful] doveseyes I know of a girl who h went thru MLC and ruin his business. He had a very successful business. They just keep spending and spending until it catches up to them

8:44 PM [dogwood] Jim-- sorry please see my comment at 6:40 it was for Jim,

8:45 PM [plumcrazy] JIM---I am sure H's main anger at me is because police officer he knows were called to our house and know about what our D did. Things were getting better now he is VERY angry at me. He didn’t even help me out of the closet wouldn’t let S help me and didn’t say ANYTHING to D about what she did.

8:45 PM [faithful] jim h has been coming around weekly now for some time to drop the boys off. Do I keep conversation light or should I approach him about where our marriage stands.

8:49 PM jim: faithful at :45, don't approach him about where the marriage stands, just keep things light and friendly.

8:45 PM [MAS] doveseyes/faithful @41: Isn't it interesting how they're all suddenly "broke" yet they have enough finances to run around and travel anywhere they want?

8:47 PM [MarySarah] Jim The OW is very well versed at manipulating & controlling in a not so obvious way. She will stay quiet, but it is NOT a quiet or meek spirit. She is brazen, bold, & calculated. Yet she gets my H to do EVERYTHING for her when my H refused to do same for me & even had higher expectations than I could keep up with. The more I would try to meet his needs it seemed the more he required & expected & the more he would tear down with his words or lack of affection. It still seems humility to him is weakness & he acts more angry could it make him feel more shame the kinder I am & more I can somehow handle?

8:49 PM jim: MarySarah at :47 let's talk by phone.

8:47 PM [faithful] mas my h did not have any just use credit card and now they are max and he cannot pay them. I finally got the bill collectors to call his work and they finally left me alone.

8:47 PM [plumcrazy] JIM-----H will not set limits for D or talk to her about her behavior I felt that I had to take control of the situation or I may not be able to walk

8:47 PM [doveseyes] mas 45..I know..I have seen broke..buying nice dinners..isn't broke..when they break open a can of spam with the ow..now that's broke ha ha

8:47 PM [hepsy] still - hi there!

8:47 PM [plumcrazy] Hello Still

8:48 PM [Still] Hi everyone.

8:48 PM [hepsy] still - I didn't get a chance to talk to you last night = you logged off fast

8:48 PM [Still] Plum, yeah I thought that was a little harsh.

8:48 PM [faithful] dogwood I do not have h address but the other night he told me what apartment he was working at. I knew already from child support paperwork I get.

8:48 PM [plumcrazy] STILL---Sorry I am a terrible typist

8:48 PM [dogwood] Jim-- thanks, I will try to ask him. He probably will ask me to pay for the fee though because it is my idea

8:50 PM jim: dogwood at :48, as part of any separation or divorce agreement, your lawyer’s fees would be paid for by your husband.

8:48 PM [Still] Hepsy, I know. I was having some computer issues last night.

8:48 PM [hepsy] still - how are you doing?

8:49 PM [Still] Hepsy, I am doing okay. Went to talk with a lawyer today for the first time. Very scary.

8:49 PM [hepsy] still - I am sure.. did you learn some good information?

8:50 PM [Still] Hepsy, Yes. This lawyer went through her own MLC so she gave me some great insight into how she felt. She walked away from her marriage and then returned. She gives all the credit to God for her return.

8:50 PM [mariposa] jim: So is it basically the rule of thumb to always let H bring up the discussion of where the marriage is heading? I'm scared to death to bring up that discussion.

8:51 PM jim: mariposa at :50, yes it is best in this stage to let him bring up any discussions about your marriage relationship.

8:50 PM [MAS] jim Someone told me recently that since it was our H's who walked out on US, they are legally responsible for our attorney fees. Is that true or not?

8:52 PM jim: MAS at :50, generally your response is accurate.

8:50 PM [faithful] jim at 49 that is what I taught but is so hard. He seems to be more like himself. I went to pick up grand baby so he could see her. She went to him with no problems and he enjoy her.

8:50 PM [Bluesky] dogwood protect yourself but try not to ask your h any questions about what he is doing. That is what he is running from.

8:50 PM [plumcrazy] Still--I bet you are glad to have her for your lawyer!!!

8:51 PM [Bluesky] Still great choice in lawyers!!

8:51 PM [Still] Plum, yes I am. She has copies of Fireproof she gives to couples who consult her. I thought it was great.

8:51 PM [dogwood] Bluesky-- Thanks for the wisdom

8:51 PM [hepsy] still - what a praise! What is your h doing? Is he on the sofa?

8:51 PM [dogwood] Jim-- thanks for the advice

8:51 PM [doveseyes] jim at 50..is that because the h committed adultery and abandoned the marriage?

8:53 PM jim: doveseyes at :51, an abandoned wife has more legal leverage because the husband is the one who wants out of the marriage, and she can ask that a condition of the divorce is that he pays all fees.

8:52 PM [Still] Hepsy, Yep, still on the sofa. He has been a wee more talkative the last couple days. I think because his car broke down and he needed to depend on me.

8:52 PM [MAS] dogwood @47: Well, since I was over at my H's home for TG, I have his new address now.

8:52 PM [dogwood] Mas-- I see

8:52 PM [hepsy] still - well maybe he will get comfortable there like mine. Any more talk from him regarding a d?

8:52 PM [MAS] dogwood: But I also had it before---my mother had given it to me.

8:53 PM [MarySarah] Jim this w/e I could no longer avoid seeing ow with my H. She has gotten her son into same sport as mine which he never did before. Saddest part is the boys may end up wrestling all season in same weight class my son is very good & 12 yrs experience. She tried get child to go to our kids' school, has the kid calling our kids his "steps" to our kids' friends. She is also coming to my home town to work out(blinker light town when she belongs to club on other side of her where same classes are. I am sure she's sick of not being with my H at our kids' events & that he is anywhere near me. This w/e I started cry when I saw her vehicle at tournament. A mutual friend of mine & H's said can't let them see you upset. I gained composure. & put blinders on all day. My H left her alone several times & she cashed him down all day. I know many people in sport wrestling, esp. all the kids & I treat them as my own, so I tried be my old outgoing self. I looked great if I say so. Very age appropriate though & my H came up (cont)

8:53 PM [faithful] doveseyes h came in and d13 went to room. She did not want to see him. He went and knock at her door and she did not open. Grandbaby 3 open the door and said "is here grand pa." He went in and gave her a hug on her forehead and she did not respond. He said I guess she is still mad at me. I told him to give her some time. He is acting so much like his old self is so hard to stand back and let him walk away.

8:53 PM [MAS] dogwood What do you mean your H has targets to move out?

8:53 PM [Still] Hepsy, no not a word. We had a seven day stretch that the kids were off and he said nothing. He also spent only 1.5 hours on the rental. So, he apparently isn't in the hurry he thought he was. How are you doing?

8:54 PM [dogwood] jim-- do you know if that works the same in a no-fault state?

8:55 PM jim: dogwood at :54, each state has small unique characteristics regarding divorce - you'll have to ask your lawyer.

8:55 PM [Bluesky] Still are you thinking of filing? Is that why you saw a lawyer?

8:55 PM [hepsy] still - oh, you know... same... just another day...I have my moments... but I am doing ok... Did you say your h will be home for a month during Christmas?

8:55 PM [Bluesky] dogwood all states are now no fault.

8:55 PM [dogwood] MAS-- he just said that he has found a few targeted places where he can move out to

8:55 PM [Still] Blue, Oh, No. I have no intention of filing. I just needed to know what my rights were and what I needed to do in the event that he follows through and files.

8:55 PM [dogwood] Bluesky-- thanks for the info.

8:55 PM [MarySarah] Jim cont to me & said "you're 45 not 14, then stormed away found ow & came into the smaller gym to watch our son. I ignored it all. OW's kid shot daggers at me all day & made obscene gestures to our youngest dtr. She told her dad & he took ow's kid's side of course. What am I to make of that statement? Our coach even turned around & said what did he say? Sorry, that's the question.....what was that to mean??????

8:55 PM [Bluesky] Still good for you.

8:55 PM [swan] dogwood - you can usually Google for information like that and/or arrange for free 15 to 20 minute consultations with a local lawyer.

8:56 PM [Still] Hepsy, Yes, he is off for a month at Christmas because of his teaching schedule. That may be quite uncomfortable since I work from home.

8:56 PM [doveseyes] Faithful 53...are you encouraged?

8:56 PM [dogwood] swan-- thanks,

8:56 PM [hepsy] still - I see...perhaps he will be like my h and find ways to be away from the house. Seriously, my h was hardly home all weekend - so annoying...

8:57 PM [faithful] doveseyes I am glad for my kids and not sure how I feel. I try to keep my feeling under control.

8:57 PM [Bluesky] dogwood anytime.

8:57 PM [MAS] Hi Still, how are you? How was your TG?

8:57 PM [Still] Hepsy/Blue, this lawyer was wonderful. She asked me if I needed a copy of Fireproof (which I have), gave me a brochure on Christian marriage seminars, and gave me the phone number to a Christian psychologist.

8:57 PM [doveseyes] faithful56...I know...I was thinking today...I wish I could just shut my feelings off...it would make things more easier

8:58 PM [Bluesky] Still You sure got a good one.

8:58 PM [faithful] Doveseyes yes I am encouraged at times but it is such a slow process. I just have to keep turning him over to God. The last two days was very hard because I was missing him so much. Today I am ok.

8:58 PM [MarySarah] doves eyes My H paid my legal fees, except original retainer & everything after the sep agreement. BUT....Now he is keeping/taking things don't belong to him & seems to get away with it unless he gets caught or something’s he gets away with on technicality...plus it's very expensive to enforce things & they know we can't afford it. He may go for jugular as mine has. Be prepared for EVERYTHING very sad. Don't be surprised at all. Mine refuses to pay bills he should pay

8:58 PM [Still] MAS, I'm good. How are you doing? Thanksgiving was just fine. We went to my Dad's. I told H we were going and didn't know if he would show, but he did. He even stayed for games. Weird, huh?

8:58 PM [Bluesky] Still so she will probably understand to stall if you h ever files.

8:58 PM [hepsy] still - that is so great! God was watching out for you... I hope that if I have to go to a lawyer, it will be someone like that. Does your h know you went?

8:58 PM [doveseyes] faithful57...I know. There are days I am forgetting him...then I can be around him and boom...feelings back...

8:58 PM [swan] dogwood - when I still lived in the San Diego area, I had consultations with four different lawyers, had my questions ready for each and tried to not ask them all the same questions that way I got as much information as possible before deciding on which one I might hire if needed.

8:59 PM [Still] Blue, yes she told me not to panic if he files. She said, "If he files, you have 90 days to respond. If you agree, it goes to court. If not, it has a 2-year waiting period."

8:59 PM [MAS] Still I'm so glad everything went well for you!

9:00 PM [Still] Hepsy, No, my H doesn't know I went. In fact, he didn't go to work today due to weather. The kids were off and I didn't want him to know that I was going. I just told him I had an appointment. I paid in cash so there would no trail.

9:00 PM [MarySarah] Still that is great :57

9:01 PM [MAS] Still: How did you find a lawyer like that? Did you get a referral from someone you know?

9:01 PM [hepsy] still - that was a good idea..You don't have to tell me exactly, but is it expensive to go to a lawyer? Do they charge by the hour or visit?

9:01 PM [Still] Hepsy/Blue/MAS, The bad part was that she really believes my H is having an affair based on his actions and demeanor. She asked me if I wanted her to arrange a PI to find proof. I said that I was not interested and that I really don't think he is.

9:02 PM [Still] MAS, I found her through a good friend. She knew she had her own crisis, left her marriage, and was back happier than ever. She thought it would be a great connection for me.

9:02 PM [dogwood] swan, did not know that you lived in San Diego area, can you recommend any lawyer?

9:02 PM [faithful] doveseyes at first it is continuing to turning it over to God every minute then it gets better. Now I tell myself is ok if he never comes back I will be ok, but deep inside I know I still want him back. But I want someone committed to God and his family.

9:02 PM [Bluesky] Still did you share with your lawyer about this group and site?

9:02 PM [plumcrazy] JIM---How do I proceed with H He was nasty at court. I was upset by some things he said and responded "you are just upset because police officers you know are aware of what D did

9:02 PM [hepsy] still - that is my fear... those I have confided it think he must be having affair.. I, like you, don't think so.. but then, I hear about women all the time who firmly believe their h is not, and then come to find out later it is so.

9:02 PM [MAS] Still @59: A 2 year waiting period? Really? What state are you in?

9:02 PM [Still] Hepsy, Her initial consult was $50. Her retainer for services is $2000. That was a little tough to take.

9:03 PM [swan] dogwood - I lived on Camp Pendleton, worked at Miramar. My daughter worked for a legal firm that specialized in intellectual properties, trademarks and patents, the lawyer she worked for gave me the referrals. She doesn't work there anymore, the firm moved to Boston and I it has been too many years, so just don’t remember who the lawyers were, sorry.

9:03 PM [MarySarah] Doves eyes...many lawyers charge even if you call them about paperwork, loose ends, everything...do whatever you can on your own. even phone calls are often $200/hr they charge for each increment of 15min. Any letter they send, any appearances, travel, etc...My H REFUSED to negotiate ANYTHING knowing he has many more funds than I do. At some point the fight can still be too costly. Lawyers & courts increase animosity for sure

9:03 PM [Still] Bluesky, Yes, I told her about this group. She thought it was great that I have a support system online.

9:03 PM [doveseyes] faithful 02..I realize the same thing..I want an H with the fruit of the spirit..not the deeds of the flesh..so much junk..I realized today no one can live with my H..he is a mess

9:03 PM [Still] MAS, I am in Pennsylvania.

9:03 PM [dogwood] swan-- thanks, I was told the American bar association offers initial free consultation

9:03 PM jim: Thanks everyone for being in the chat room today. If you got lost during the chat process, check back later to find the edited chat dialogue posted in the archives, there you can read it at your own pace. It's been fun talking with you today. We, at Midlife Dimensions, will remember you and your marriages in prayer throughout the week. Warmly in Christ, Jim. James 4:8, Draw near to God and He will draw near to you.

9:03 PM [Bluesky] Still sheesh that was an awesome price. My consult was 250 with a 5000 retainer.

9:04 PM jim: This is Lisa, MLD office manager. If you feel you didn’t get enough time with Jim in the room today, or have a private question you don’t wish to discuss here, please consider scheduling a 1-on-1 phone counseling session with Jim. Call/email us at 714-768-1777 or This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. to set up a session. I’ll go over the suggested donation and provide you with ways to make the most of your time during the private call. I’ll need a list of dates/times that work for you to compare to Jim’s schedule and let you know the best one. When it’s time for the session, Jim calls you on the phone number of your choice. Remember, Jim always offers his live counseling in the chat room without cost. If you wish to donate to our ministry to support the Website/Chat Room upkeep, please do so at www.Midlife.com. Thank you.

9:04 PM [hepsy] still - yuk...I guess if your h files, you could make him pay that? But we will pray that he doesn't file and we won't have to worry..

9:04 PM [Still] Hepsy, My Dad who has turned his life around had affairs throughout his marriages. He told me that he really doesn't believe he is...that he is depressed.

9:04 PM [Still] Blue, Yikes!

9:05 PM [hepsy] still - that is what I believe about my h. I think the only affair he is having is with his Crown Royal..

9:05 PM [Bluesky] Still if you know where he is all the time, I would agree with you that he is not. That was how I felt before my h left.

9:05 PM [faithful] plum how are you holding up emotionally

9:05 PM [Still] Hepsy, My H fantasizes about a different life.

9:06 PM [lisak] ALL: thanks for being here tonight. Scripture Reading: Psalm 27:11-14, in which David urges us to wait patiently before the Lord. 11 Teach me Your way, O Lord, And lead me in a smooth path, because of my enemies. 12 Do not deliver me to the will of my adversaries; For false witnesses have risen against me, And such as breathe out violence. 13 I would have lost heart, unless I had believed That I would see the goodness of the Lord In the land of the living. 14 Wait on the Lord; Be of good courage, And He shall strengthen your heart; Wait, I say, on the Lord!

9:06 PM [Bluesky] Still oh, they all do.

9:06 PM [Still] Blue, he is always home on time for dinner. He travels a lot, but his colleague is a very strong Christian man with a family.

9:06 PM [hepsy] still - and what life would that be?

9:06 PM [faithful] Lisa that is the verse God gave me when all this started to Wait on the Lord.

9:06 PM [MAS] hepsy @02: I hate to say it, but that is exactly what happened to me. The entire time I thought my H and I were trying to reestablish our relationship, I discovered he was having an affair for over a year. I never had a clue.

9:07 PM [doveseyes] I am realizing I am a terrible waiter

9:07 PM [Still] Hepsy, My dad says your H has everything any man could want right in front of him and can't see a thing. My dad tears up when he talks to me about it.

9:07 PM [faithful] doveseyes before this I was so inpatient my sister just laughs at me and says I have come a long way.

9:07 PM [MarySarah] Blue wow, I had free consult & $2000 retainer. atty charged H $6000 unless he paid full in a mo & it ended up $5000. My H does not ever seem to run out of money. Even the audit for business was $8000, plus his legal bills must be well over 5000-10,000....new house, new truck, trips still, toys, everything he denied me ow gets, yet I didn't seem to see all that money & he is NOT one to take out more loans or mess up his credit. It will take a lot for my H to feel any loss at all

9:07 PM [hepsy] mas - I am sorry...that is terrible...

9:08 PM [doveseyes] faithful..how long?

9:08 PM [plumcrazy] FAITHFUL---I am much better today than Fri or the weekend. the counselor told me I did the right thing calling the police. Told D she couldn’t hurt me it was wrong. Just wish someone would have said something to H. He was silent the whole time talking to the probation officer. He was upset the police officer saw him at court. I said I told you did not have to come but you chose to

9:08 PM [dogwood] lisak-- thanks for the scripture

9:08 PM [mariposa] doveseyes: Waiting is terrible but I find it better than the alternative which would be a divorce.

9:08 PM [Still] MAS, I know how much you have hurt over your h's affair. I'm so sorry.

9:08 PM [hepsy] still - well, your dad is right..

9:09 PM [Still] Hepsy, you are sweet. He is prejudice. :D

9:09 PM [faithful] h left April of 2009

9:09 PM [mariposa] MAS: Has there just been one OW for your husband over the four years?

9:09 PM [Bluesky] plumcrazy swan gave you great advice about not worrying about how your h feels about being seen by the p/o he knows. That is his problem to deal with. That shouldn't be more important than the welfare of your d.

9:09 PM [lisak] ALL - my pleasure. I'm going to run for the night. Goodnight everyone.

9:09 PM [MAS] hepsy @07: It sure was a shocker.

9:09 PM [hepsy] still - well, of course, you are his d.. but I don't even really know you and can tell you are a wonderful person..

9:10 PM [MarySarah] swan did you happen to see what I said my H said to me this w/e?

9:10 PM [dogwood] lisak-- I sent you an email last night, please read my email request. thanks

9:10 PM [MAS] Still@08: Thank you.

9:10 PM [Still] Hepsy, Thank you. You are clearly a sweetheart yourself!

9:10 PM [swan] MarySarah - sorry I didn't, busy taking care of the admin part of chat tonight.

9:11 PM [faithful] all I have to go my grand baby and foster child are making a mess. They get the plastic bag and fill them up with their toys and get them everywhere. I need to put them in bed.

9:11 PM [Still] All, got to run. It was wonderful to "see" you all. Have a great night!

9:11 PM [hepsy] still - thanks dear! Well, I have to go.. my contacts are getting all dried out because I am tired. It was so glad chatting with you..

9:11 PM [Still] Hepsy, you, too!

9:11 PM [plumcrazy] Bluesky---Counselor told D that your parents want the best for you and are trying to help you. That she needed to start taking responsibility for her behavior and her health That she has 2 more yrs before she is 18 and she needs to get her stuff together

9:11 PM [MAS] mariposa @09: No, there have been others, but they were just flings. As far as I know, this OW is the first serious relationship he's had in the past 4 years.

9:11 PM [doveseyes] Good night..I am falling asleep

9:12 PM [faithful] good night everyone

9:12 PM [hepsy] all - I am turning in as well. Take care. Try to get some sleep.

9:12 PM [Bluesky] plumcrazy but I was referring to you worrying about how your h feels.

9:12 PM [faithful] plum take it easy and good night.

9:13 PM [MarySarah] swan I had to see OW who has finally found a way around not being at our kids' events. I looked good & was in my element so to speak as I know the sport & many people & the ow does not. I tried to be old upbeat, self & talked to lots people I have known for years, inc all the kids competing. H came up & snidely whispered in my ear" you're 45, not 14 " & stormed away, got ow & came into room my son was competing to watch even though our son doesn't like her or want her there. What should I think that statement means?

9:14 PM [MAS] All: I am going to go. Take care everyone, and have a good night!

9:14 PM [mariposa] all: Praying for each one of you....goodnight

9:14 PM [plumcrazy] Bluesky---I am not worrying about how he feels. I know it is because he is MAJORLY embarrassed But my feeling on that is that he should have done something about D's behavior and it wouldn’t have gotten to this point. I did what I had to. She needs to know she cannot continue to behave the way she is and that everyone else that’s ISNT her Dad thinks her behavior is terrible

9:15 PM [MarySarah] All :11sometimes I wonder why some come up empty & go from one ow to another & feel loss & others seem to be able to not only float, but swim strongly to shore & create a whole new life immediately that they refused to create in their marriage.

9:16 PM [Bluesky] goodnight all

9:17 PM [swan] MarySarah - well usually when people say something like that it is because they are embarrassed by the behavior of the person they make a comment like that to. Not to mention that your drawing attention to yourself being there alone and him with the other woman opens him up to judgment by others, he was embarrassed and probably upset with you. In his mind, the other woman was behavior appropriately and you weren't, so it gives him one more thing to accuse you of.

9:18 PM [swan] Goodnight all, the room is going to close in a couple minutes, please join us again Wednesday evening.

9:18 PM [plumcrazy] Goodnight all take care. Please pray for my D and my family

9:19 PM [plumcrazy] bye

9:20 PM [MarySarah] swan makes sense, but I wasn't dressed or acting inappropriate. Just sitting & reading some times, not following him around. No gestures or words to him or her. Didn't even watch them. cheered kids on as usual, & enjoyed myself. A neighbor dad with kid on team who went through near same & whose W almost divorced him, now restored said he watched them & ow is definitely coaching H

8:43 PM [dogwood] Jim-- thanks. He repeatedly told me that he is not going to rip me off, he is always proud of his ability of providing for the family financially. It seems an insult to him when I question the finance. He thought I am greedy and lost my spiritual characteristics... but I know that I must need some advice no matter what he says, it probably will make him very angry

8:47 PM jim: dogwood at :43, I have been through enough of these situations that I strongly urge you to get a lawyer who can very ably and strongly protect you. Yes it's going to cost money, but yes he made this decision which has logical consequences.

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