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November 29, 2010 / with Jim Conway

8:07 PM [mariposa] Jim and all: I am so confused after Thanksgiving!! H went to our Thanksgiving service at church Wed. night with us and held my hand (first time in a long, long time) then came to the house and spent the night (on the couch) --had a great day Thursday with lots of interaction and then he left Thurs night about 10 to go back to his apartment. Did not hear anything else from him all weekend although I invited him to come over for the big football game to watch with our son. So very, very confusing to my emotions.

8:10 PM Jim: mariposa at: 07, you are experiencing the typical type of reactions that midlife crisis men have as they are stumbling toward reconnection. When they are with their wife, they feel good and secure and they give off vibrations of wanting to be closer - but as soon as they get away, they begin to ask themselves, "what in the world did I just do"? Then they drop back into an isolation mode hoping to get better control of their emotions. Overall, this is very good news and you just keep doing things you have been working on that are drawing him back to you - but don't assume that 1 good time means that he is ready to jump back into the relationship with both feet. He is merrily dipping his finger in the water of the marriage swimming pool to see what the4 temperature is before he decides to go for a swim.

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You have entered November 29, 2010 Monday Chat with Jim @6:00 pm.

8:00 PM Jim: Hi everyone. I'm here and ready to take your questions for tonight.

8:01 PM [swan] Hello everyone, welcome to Monday Evening chat

8:01 PM [mariposa] Hello swan

8:02 PM [plumcrazy] Hello all

8:02 PM [mariposa] Hello Plum

8:03 PM [plumcrazy] Hello Lisa

8:04 PM [plumcrazy] JIM I have been waiting to talk to you

8:04 PM [plumcrazy] hello MAS

8:04 PM [MAS] Hello all.

8:04 PM [mariposa] Hello MAS

8:04 PM [plumcrazy] HI Mariposa

8:04 PM [MAS] Hi Plum/mariposa

8:05 PM [plumcrazy] Hey Doveseyes

8:05 PM [MAS] Hi doveseyes.

8:05 PM [doveseyes] Hello...

8:05 PM [MAS] doveseyes: Haven't seen you for awhile.

8:06 PM [doveseyes] life mas...how did your thanksgiving go?

8:06 PM [doveseyes] hi plum...how was your holiday?

8:06 PM [MAS] doveseyes Oh, it was okay. Yours?

8:06 PM [plumcrazy] Doveseyes--H was great for around 3 weeks then took a big downturn yesterday. I was figuring it was going to happen but didn’t expect it to be as bad as things seemed to improve lots and we had an awesome Thanksgiving

8:07 PM [doveseyes] ok...just ok

8:07 PM [mariposa] Jim and all: I am so confused after Thanksgiving!! H went to our Thanksgiving service at church Wed. night with us and held my hand (first time in a long, long time) then came to the house and spent the night (on the couch) --had a great day Thursday with lots of interaction and then he left Thurs night about 10 to go back to his apartment. Did not hear anything else from him all weekend although I invited him to come over for the big football game to watch with our son. So very, very confusing to my emotions.

8:10 PM Jim: mariposa at: 07, you are experiencing the typical type of reactions that midlife crisis men have as they are stumbling toward reconnection. When they are with their wife, they feel good and secure and they give off vibrations of wanting to be closer - but as soon as they get away, they begin to ask themselves, "what in the world did I just do"? Then they drop back into an isolation mode hoping to get better control of their emotions. Overall, this is very good news and you just keep doing things you have been working on that are drawing him back to you - but don't assume that 1 good time means that he is ready to jump back into the relationship with both feet. He is merrily dipping his finger in the water of the marriage swimming pool to see what the4 temperature is before he decides to go for a swim.

8:07 PM [doveseyes] plum...I am so sorry

8:07 PM [MAS] Hi Lil2Spunki

8:07 PM [doveseyes] Jim...help...why don't you come out with a pill for mlc...that would save us alot of trouble...

8:11 PM Jim: doveseyes at: 07, I have come out with a pill - but it's illegal. Some people refer to it as a 38 caliber.

8:08 PM [Lil2Spunki] Hi Everyone!

8:08 PM [koko] hi all

8:08 PM [mariposa] doveseyes: Hello and I agree with the pill idea!!!

8:09 PM [plumcrazy] JIM swan suggested that I ask you about H and what he said yesterday. H has been awesome for about 3 weeks then yesterday went back to dark side. D asked Dad what was wrong H said "I feel like taking a knife and cutting my chest, ripping out my heart and stabbing it" What a thing to say in front of the kids! What do you make of that?

8:11 PM Jim: plumcrazy at: 09 please see my comment to Mariposa at: 10.

8:09 PM [Lil2Spunki] All- Does everyone still wear their wedding bands or is that like telling them that you love them continually?

8:09 PM [mariposa] Lil2Spunki: I wear mine all the time.

8:10 PM [plumcrazy] Lil2spunki--At the start I got mad and didn’t wear my ring for 2 weeks. Then I said NO I AM MARRIED!!

8:10 PM [MAS] Jim - The other night I saw some pictures of my H with the OW in very intimate poses. The images of these photos have been haunting me ever since, and all the hurt and pain has come flooding back. How do I act is if the OW doesn't exist?

8:13 PM Jim: MAS at :10, make sure that you never see any of these pictures again - and don't go to any place or search through any email that might help connect you with the other woman - avoid these at all costs.

8:10 PM [plumcrazy] Hello Lalachrissie

8:10 PM [dogwood] Lil2--No, I took it off because H has not been wearing for many years even before MLC

8:10 PM [lalachrissie] plumcrazy hi

8:11 PM [swan] Lil2Spunki - I wear mine, I don't flash them in my husband's face, he has never said anything and I don't either. I don't wear them to prove anything to him; I wear them for myself and my promises before God.

8:11 PM [doveseyes] Jim...my H celebrated the holiday season by cutting my money 1/3 claimed he is "broke" but was seen out with a woman at a college game...so...should I continue to "cut" finiances and endure..Or seek legal action...I believe my H wants me to file...also H is lying to his mother...told her he saw kids over thanksgiving and didn't...thought that was strange..All kids received was a text and that was it...

8:14 PM Jim: doveseyes at: 11, there may come a time that you will need to file for financial protection for you and your children.

8:12 PM [doveseyes] Jim at 11...ok...write me a prescription...

8:13 PM [plumcrazy] JIM--Should I be worried about his comment though. Swan said I should ask for a mental health perspective from you about H's comments

8:13 PM [plumcrazy] Hello Wiffe

8:13 PM [wiffe] Hello All

8:13 PM [mariposa] Jim: I was hoping it was good news. He even called me "skinny". I have lost 20 pounds recently. It is just so crushing to have such a good day and then be ignored the next day. Thanks for the encouragement.

8:15 PM Jim: mariposa at: 13, this is very good news, and maybe you should change your chat name to "skinny". But remember this is only a temporary blip - a trial balloon.

8:13 PM [lalachrissie] lil2spunki I gave my ring to my h 3 days b4 he told me he was leaving b/c I wanted him to put it on my finger when he could stop telling me he might leave. I’m not wearing it. Sad thing is that he gave it to me on Dec 5 '09 for our 10 year anniversary b/c I never had a ring b4

8:13 PM [MAS] Jim @11:    I like that one!

8:14 PM [swan] Jim - oh come on, a Marine CorpsM16 is more accurate - LOL!!

8:14 PM [doveseyes] Jim...u have often asked what my husband is getting from the other women...h enjoys partying...drinking...and doing things people of wealth do...how would you discern what h is getting from those actions? Oh...and how was your thanksgiving?

8:16 PM Jim: doveseyes at: 14, he is fulfilling some of his young adult fantasies.

8:14 PM [dogwood] Jim-- what kind of mindset should I have to protect myself being hurt by the time bomb? Should I prepare myself as if H is gone for good? Should I stop watching for and interpreting signs of H’s turning around or moving further away? I am very tired of trying to figure out what is in his mind. My emotion stability was shattered each time with what he does or does not do. My adult children feel that as long as I have this hope of his turning around, I will be in this roller-coaster ride.

8:17 PM Jim: dogwood at: 14, the mindset I encourage every wife who has been abandoned to have is to totally surrender your husband to God and stop trying to fix him or look for positive behaviors. God is using this time to deepen your trust in God and to work in your husband's life - leave it all up to God.

8:15 PM [Lil2Spunki] All - Is it wrong that I don't want to wear my ring. Not so much for the fact that I am a married woman but that marriage is dead and I am waiting for my new husband to come back. It has not changed my perspective that I standing but now I am standing for something different.

8:15 PM [doveseyes] Jim...no credit cards are in mine name...but h makes a great salary...how do you know when the time is there?

8:19 PM Jim: doveseyes at: 15, I would encourage you to make an appointment with a trusted lawyer who is recommended by several people in your community to discuss getting some financial protection. This does not mean that you would have to file for divorce.

8:15 PM [swan] Lil2Spunki - No, wearing your wedding ring or not is up to you, there is no right or wrong about it. Not to mention there are many people who are married happily and with each other as a married couple and for whatever reason they don't wear their rings, heck some don't even have rings. Do what is comfortable for you and don't allow anyone to pressure you to do anything else.

8:16 PM [MAS] Jim @13: But since I've already seen them (as well as a Valentine's Day card from yet another woman with a very risqué comment she wrote), how do I handle things at this point, besides praying a lot?

8:19 PM Jim: MAS at: 16, burn the cards.

8:16 PM [plumcrazy] JIM Our Thanksgiving was awesome. H and I cooked together got along. H commented on how good the turkey turned out that I cooked. His family came and even my FIL came for the first time for TG. Great family day and he initiated intimacy. Everything was great till yesterday. He was nasty to everyone. How do I proceed with H?

8:21 PM Jim: plumcrazy at :16, just ignore this for now and don't make a big deal of it.

8:17 PM [Lil2Spunki] mariposa - I have lost 65ish... joined a health club and maybe have only received one comment from him over the last 6 months. Probably more so on my initiation. He did comment on my new sweater for TG. He used to compliment me all the time. Well, I knew that I was cute on TG

8:17 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy how are you tonight?

8:17 PM [dogwood] Plumcrazy-- glad to hear your good TG with H

8:17 PM [hepsy] Jim - my h is continuing to give me 5 min. in the am to talk, as per my request. I have been keeping things light; however, yesterday I tried to get into deeper conversation - very difficult. H just wants to basically compare calendars and get out the door. I know I should be thankful for what he is giving me... but I wish for more...

8:18 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie - I am tired... again!! I am always tired. I feel mentally drained. What about you?

8:19 PM [doveseyes] Jim at 16...adult fantasies...so...just let h act out...until it ends?

8:22 PM Jim: doveseyes at :19, just ignore it - but continually bring it to God in prayer. Don't try and find out what your husband is doing related to any pornography.

8:19 PM [mariposa] Lil2spunki: Wow, congratulations on the weight loss. You know that he is noticing!!! It is so hard to not get compliments. I have gotten very few recently myself.

8:19 PM [wiffe] All-PTL H had dinner with us again. Not sure if it is because he is broke and has no money for food, misses us or is trying to figure out what to do. BUT I'll take it I know I shouldn't complain. Also this morning he wasn't feeling well and I asked God to help him feel better. By this evening he was able to eat 4 or 5 tacos and lots of cheese sticks. He also napped here at the house the whole day with D.

8:19 PM [wiffe] All-PTL H had dinner with us again. Not sure if it is because he is broke and has no money for food, misses us or is trying to figure out what to do. BUT I'll take it I know I shouldn't complain. Also this morning he wasn't feeling well and I asked God to help him feel better. By this evening he was able to eat 4 or 5 tacos and lots of cheese sticks. He also napped here at the house the whole day with D.

8:19 PM [doveseyes] Jim 19...ok...I can do that...I do know that my state has no legal seperation only divorce

8:22 PM Jim: doveseyes at :19, I am not familiar with legal situations in your state, that's why you need to talk to a local lawyer.

8:20 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy me too. I spent a great deal of the day crying, ugh! Our 11th wedding anniversary is Dec 5th and I just keep thinking, how could he have just stopped loving me.

8:20 PM [Lil2Spunki] swan - I don't feel pressured one way or another. My H is in construction so he may never put on a ring again as he had it smashed on his finger. I guess that a ring would represent our bond. At this point... I am the only one that knows they are in the bond.

8:20 PM [dogwood] Jim--thanks. That is what I did last week, I told God that I gave up, and wanted to hand him to the Lord. Thanks. It is going to take practice every day out of me

8:23 PM Jim: dogwood at :20, good for you, you're on the right track.

8:21 PM [MAS] Jim I'm even having nightly dreams about him and the OW. I can't seem to stop them.

8:24 PM Jim: MAS at :21, if you are having dreams about him and the OW, that's because you are thinking about them during the day. Our day time thoughts and anxieties are worked out in our night time dreams. Solution: stop thinking about them and release it totally to God.

8:21 PM [plumcrazy] Wiffe--I am so glad to hear of your continued God winks. I hope they continue My H has retreated again and got nasty again. But it is just par for the course. Hard not to resort to old ways and reacting to H

8:21 PM [swan] Lil2Spunki - actually my husband didn't wear his wedding ring during certain parts of his job when he was a Marine, the ring could have been damaged in some cases, it could have gotten caught and ripped his finger off in others, so I never really got bent out of shape if he didn't wear it all the time.

8:21 PM [doveseyes] Jim..How do you gauge mlc response during holidays..No attempt to see family but spent with "friends"

8:25 PM Jim: doveseyes at :21, midlife response is very extreme during the holidays - both very close - and very distant and hurtful.

8:22 PM [mariposa] lalachrissie: those are the words that have been going through my head today, too. How could he just stop loving me after 30 years. ??? So sad.

8:22 PM [MAS] Jim @19 the pictures and card are in his home. I saw them on TG.

8:22 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie- I know.. I am sorry... I have good friend who was just dating this guy with the plans to marry - they were together 8 years.. And he just dropped the bomb. She said the same thing... how could he just stop loving me.. I feel the same way...terrible...

8:22 PM [dogwood] Jim-- H cannot understand why I can act normal after the disclosure of his unfaithfulness. When I told him that was the grace of the Lord, H totally rejects that; he rejects anything related to God, and insists that I am still human. I must act certain way in order to either making him felling more guilty or to try wining him back. Whenever I talk about how the Lord loves us, he makes comments that it shows he and I have such a vast difference between us. He said that our way of thinking and solving problems are completely different, so it proves that we cannot be together again. What should I do? I probably should try to zip my lip just listen to him and not say anything. Honestly, I am very tired of following his “logic” . However, I could see that he enjoyed talking out loud to me about his issues; it seemed help him opening up a bit.

8:26 PM Jim: dogwood at :22, let's talk about this by phone soon.

8:23 PM [wiffe] plumcrazy Oh I so know that can and probably happen I hope not. This Friday is our Holiday concert at church I invited H to and this Saturday is my 5K run. H is coming to watch the girls and me.

8:23 PM [doveseyes] Jim at 22 ok

8:23 PM [plumcrazy] JIM Do you think H's comments to D about how he felt are anything to be concerned with or do you think because we all asked him what was wrong at different times yesterday that was his way to shock us into leaving him alone?

8:26 PM Jim: plumcrazy at :23, I think his reaction was an attempt to isolate himself - he probably felt emotionally overwhelmed.

8:24 PM [Lil2Spunki] Jim - H returned from working in SD. Thursday prior he gave me the separation speech. Which I calmly handled. He did go to TG with my family and even returned home. He slept in our bed, made conversation and even eye contact. However, there is still much avoidance and no touching. We all got food poisoning from TG and he played Mr. Mom which never does. I stayed calmly detached this weekend. Is his partial involvement a good thing or just indecision until he can find another way out?

8:27 PM Jim: Lil2Spunki at :24, this is a common up and down reaction - keep your eye on the big picture, not the small little changes.

8:24 PM [plumcrazy] Hey koko!!!

8:25 PM [doveseyes] Jim..What is a practical way to release H to God? Prayer...any suggestions?

8:31 PM Jim: doveseyes at :25, a good way to start is to read about the struggle that Jesus had in the Garden of Gethsemane. He knew that he had to go through the death on the cross - but he pleaded for some other way. He finally resolved it by saying to God the Father, "not my will, but yours be done".

8:25 PM [MAS] lalachrissie/mariposa: That's just what I've been thinking about lately as well. After 27 years, how could the love just end?

8:25 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie - try to remember that God will never stop loving you.. Ever...

8:26 PM [dogwood] Jim-- okay. H wants me to distance myself from him so that I won’t be hurting so much when leaves. I can’t understand why he is so miserable to the point of nearly being sick, yet, he refuses to reconcile. He is convinced that things can never get back to normal again between us, at least for him. He can’t understand why I continue to care for him. On the one hand, he still wants to run his own life, or to escape? Or hide from God? I am worried that he will use his physical health as an excuse to separate from me. I am trying not to give him any pressure as much as I can.

8:31 PM Jim: dogwood at :26, stop trying to figure out your husband - it will drive you crazy. Keep releasing him to God.

8:27 PM [koko] hi plum. Just reading doing ok overall compared to some. They need chat right now more than me just taking input.

8:28 PM [plumcrazy] KOKO--don’t feel that way . We can all talk here. Please ask if you have any questions. Plenty of people here to help!!1

8:28 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy I know. I'm just so sad. I really was very happy in my marriage and with my life. I had no idea he felt this way and my heart is so broken.

8:28 PM [MAS] Hi koko.

8:28 PM [hepsy] mas/lalachrissie/mariposa - just remember, that they are looking for a feeling - and love is more than that.. They aren't in their right minds... try not to feel rejected...this isn't about you... it is them..

8:28 PM [koko] Plum I know that and appreciate it

8:29 PM [mariposa] hepsy: My mind knows that but my heart has a hard time dealing with it.

8:29 PM [Lil2Spunki] Jim - Is that to say that these things are not improvement but just the craziness of the MLC. Do I just continue on with the loving detachment and give him the space that he needs? I guess I could answer my own question as he is not coming to me for the love and affection at this point.

8:32 PM Jim: Lil2Spunki at :29, I think you have answered your own question.

8:30 PM [hepsy] mariposa - I know...((hugs))

8:30 PM [plumcrazy] JIM I think I agree with him trying to isolate himself because the day before D revealed that she found out that one of her best friends had been hospitalized for a suicide attempt. H said he was sorry to hear that. H said " I feel that way sometimes but then I think about my kids"

8:32 PM Jim: plumcrazy at :30, good insight into your husband.

8:31 PM [doveseyes] Jim 31..wow..Ok...

8:32 PM [MAS] hepsy- Oh, but the rejection factor plays such a HUGE part in all the hurt that I feel.

8:32 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy I know too. I’m planned on having an extra hard time this week. Last year my anniversary was very special to me and I thought it was to him too. 6 months later he wanted to leave me

8:32 PM [plumcrazy] Dogwood--I can tell you JIM is so right You will make yourself Sick trying to figure H out!! Ask me I lost half of my hair at the start of this

8:33 PM [doveseyes] Jim..I often find myself wanting to "figure" out my H like dogwood..Or find the solutions to his mlc..Somehow it makes the pain of the rejection seem less intense..Your words are in red just like Jesus

8:37 PM Jim: doveseyes at :33, the way to lessen the pain of rejection is to spend more time reading the Bible, listening to praise music, lots of exercise, and lots of coffee connections with friends that you trust.

8:33 PM [dogwood] Jim-- okay, yes, it already driving me crazy that I have to stop figuring him out. Probably, it calls for living by faith and not by "understanding"

8:38 PM Jim: dogwood at :33, please see what I said to Doveseyes at :37. The way to lessen the pain of rejection is to spend more time reading the Bible, listening to praise music, lots of exercise, and lots of coffee connections with friends that you trust.

8:34 PM [doveseyes] dogwood 33 I am the same way...I think if I can figure H out..It will make the pain less or give me some assurance that everything is going to be ok

8:34 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie - I was very happy in my marriage too.. My h was a wonderful, loving h and father... I was totally shocked when this happened. I think this is hard for us because we are usually blindsided..

8:34 PM [mariposa] dogwood: I find it hard also because other people in our life’s (children, friends and family) come to me to want to know why he is acting so crazy and want me to explain him to them. There is no explanation.

8:35 PM [dogwood] plumcrazy-- Thanks, where is the cut-off line between trying to understand MLCer and to stop trying to figuring them out?

8:35 PM [koko] Jim how do I react to my D17 who asks if W is bipolar or something

8:39 PM Jim: koko at :35, tell her that she has never been diagnosed with anything like this, so you can't answer that. Remember that teenagers see everything as all good, or all bad - so your daughter is seeing only the bad in your wife and you may need to point out some of the good in her life.

8:36 PM [MAS] doveseyes @34: I have the same problem...I constantly try to analyze everything my H says or does. "Living by faith and not by understanding.." That's a great way to put it.

8:36 PM [plumcrazy] Dogwood --STILL working on that one ASK Jim!!!

8:36 PM [mariposa] koko: I have thought myself that H has some of the same signs as bipolarism.

8:37 PM [doveseyes] mas..I just wish it would get easier. I often seen these women who were done wrong..See the anger..And they just cut the H off..And it’s over

8:37 PM [Lil2Spunki] dogwood @ 35 I have the exact same question. I feel like it is nice to know what stage of the game my H is in but I don't know if it is actually possible.

8:37 PM [dogwood] doveseyes-- Certainly, the key is how much I would like to know IF "everything will be ok" or not, that I can plan myself accordingly-- Hey, it is probably what we may not know ahead of time

8:38 PM [dogwood] Jim-- would that mean growing further apart from H? I guess that is the only way for now.

8:40 PM Jim: dogwood at :38, he is already apart from you emotionally - trying to grasp him will only push him farther.

8:38 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy I just keep thinking that he just walked away and is never coming back. I try to remember that he is obviously confused because he took only a few items of clothing and some shoes, but at the same time he doesn't contact me. I feel like if I didn't have my d's I would have never heard from again

8:39 PM [doveseyes] all..I heard recently an interview by Loretta Lynn. She said 80% of her songs were written from her experience with her alcoholic, womanizing H ...she made millions..We need to start writing songs..We all could be rich!!!!

8:40 PM Jim: doveseyes at :39, when is your first song coming out?

8:39 PM [MAS] doveseyes @37: I know. I have many acquaintances who have done that exact thing. Today, I just prayed to God and asked him for some peace. Right now, I would even be happy with that.

8:39 PM [mariposa] Jim: So after him holding hands with me at TG church service and our nice day together Thursday would it be too pushy of me to text him "I miss you"?

8:41 PM Jim: mariposa at :39, yes it would be too romantic - it would be better to remind him of something funny that happened so that you can keep the contact very light and non-friendly.

8:40 PM [doveseyes] jim38..Ok can do..Thanks for being practical..I need that

8:40 PM [plumcrazy] Doveseyes--I like that idea. Let’s start working on some songs or a book!!!

8:40 PM [dogwood] Jim-- okay, I understand now

8:40 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie - you are projecting too much into the future.. You don't know really what’s going on in his mind and speculating will just make you sick.. This is where you will have to trust God "no matter what". That's a hard thing to do.. But necessary...

8:41 PM [doveseyes] mas..39..you will ..U don't realize how far u have come..

8:41 PM [MAS] doveseyes @39: Let's do it!

8:41 PM [koko] Jim right now W and I are talking more, she seems to be in better mood. But we are like roommates. Is it a positive sign that she seems to comm. more often

8:45 PM Jim: koko at :41, keep giving her the necessary space she needs and keep giving her lots of affirmation about what a wonderful person she is - make sure you are using specific examples. Have you read the book, "Women in Midlife Crisis" by Jim and Sally Conway? That would be helpful at this time.

8:42 PM jim: This is Lisa, MLD office manager. If you feel you didn’t get enough time with Jim in the room today, or have a private question you don’t wish to discuss here, please consider scheduling a 1-on-1 phone counseling session with Jim. Call/email us at 714-768-1777 or This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. to set up a session. I’ll go over the suggested donation and provide you with ways to make the most of your time during the private call. I’ll need a list of dates/times that work for you to compare to Jim’s schedule and let you know the best one. When it’s time for the session, Jim calls you on the phone number of your choice. Remember, Jim always offers his live counseling in the chat room without cost. If you wish to donate to our ministry to support the Website/Chat Room upkeep, please do so at www.Midlife.com. Thank you.

8:42 PM [doveseyes] Jim at 40..i will keep you posted...heaven knows I have plenty of material...I will send u a copy..Ha-ha

8:42 PM [plumcrazy] JIM--yesterday H was talking to D We were watching some TV show. H made statement Faith that is something that I don’t have. I didn’t know what to say so let it go

8:45 PM Jim: plumcrazy at :42, he probably was trying to shock you.

8:43 PM [doveseyes] mas41..We could do a group album..

8:43 PM [mariposa] Jim: Ok, having a hard time thinking of jokes right now LOL. Much easier to say I miss you.

8:46 PM Jim: mariposa at :43, it doesn't need to be a joke, but think of some touching light moment you shared.

8:43 PM [dogwood] Jim-- thanks, it is just so hard to accept the fact that H has been emotional separated. I guess I still can't accept that yet. Need to learn to face the fact.

8:43 PM Jim: EVERYONE: Jan left last Saturday morning for the YWAM 50th anniversary of being held in Kona, Hawaii. She will be gone for about 8 days suffering in all of that heat and sunshine, while I am here trudging around in the snow. Also, be sure to read the comments I have written about the holidays on the home page of our website. Thanks to Lisa for putting this up for everyone.

8:44 PM [Lil2Spunki] mariposa - You know what I do when I want to send messages to my H that I shouldn't... I journal them. Half of the intensity is just writing them down and I feel better.

8:44 PM [plumcrazy] Doveseyes--It MUST be country though I want to go back to my country roots. I grew up listening to country music

8:46 PM Jim: plumcrazy at :44, yes, someone has to suffer in the sun for Jesus.

8:44 PM [mariposa] Lil2Spunki: You're right. I might make me feel better to just write it. Even if he doesn't read it.

8:45 PM [Lil2Spunki] mariposa - Do you journal?

8:45 PM [doveseyes] Jim 43..wow..Awesome..Good luck..u will make it.

8:47 PM Jim: doveseyes at :45, thanks!

8:45 PM [mariposa] Lil2Spunki: No, I don't. Sometimes I write him e-mails that I know I will never send but not really a journal.

8:45 PM [dogwood] Jim-- what is YWAM? I guess I can find at the back of her book??

8:48 PM Jim: dogwood at :45, YWAM are initials that stand for Youth With A Mission. It is the largest mission organization in the world today. They have sent thousands and thousands of missionaries all over the world. Jan has been involved in working with these young missionary trainees in 43 countries around the world.

8:46 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy I’m sorry, I’m not usually so upset but I feel like last year was a complete lie and I’m very heartbroken over it. he gave me a very expensive Rolex and a beautiful wedding band and it all really meant something to me. the watch in particular, because he collects them and it's the first time he ever bought one for me

8:46 PM [MAS] doveseyes @43: I love it!!! Just tell me when and where!!

8:46 PM [doveseyes] Jim..ywam 50 years..wow..aren't they close to reaching every people's group in the world?

8:49 PM Jim: doveseyes at :46, there are about 25 different missionary agencies who are agreeing together to reach everyone in the world by 2020.

8:47 PM [Lil2Spunki] mariposa - I find that it is a great way to be able to get out all those emotions that your H doesn't want dumped on him. Granted, I journal about many of my own things as well. I will many times just write at the bottom how much I miss and love H.

8:47 PM [doveseyes] plum..go for it..I have found some country songs have some much truth in them..which at times can be therapeutic

8:47 PM [koko] Jim I want to surprise family at xmas w/trip to NYC for Macys parade next year or Soul Fest in NH we did go to Disney this summer had great time I think as long as it is family it is fine. I just don’t want to seem like I am pushing to much

8:51 PM Jim: koko at :47, I think your caution about not wanting to push too much is very wise. Try to fully understand about what your family would like so that they don't feel like you are manipulating them so that you can be with them.

8:48 PM [MAS] Jim @44: Poor Jan!!! We will have to pray for her!!

8:49 PM [koko] Jim. that was the first book I purchased I read and reread chapters all the time,

8:51 PM Jim: koko at :49, I'm glad you have read the book and are putting that information into action.

8:49 PM [MAS] plumcrazy I LOVE country. Definitely country!

8:49 PM [doveseyes] Jim at 47 u r welcome...I will try and be more compassionate in the future

8:49 PM [dogwood] Jim--thanks, I remember Jan mentioned it to me.

8:50 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie - it's ok.. your feelings are real and you need to express them, not stuff them..Try not to dwell on what you think your h's motives were or weren't.. like I said, we don't know what is really going on in our h's minds...

8:50 PM [Lil2Spunki] Jim - Is unusual for a man in midlife crisis to be kind? My H has been kind through the better part of this. Certainly a lot of selfishness but still kind. Not a husband, affectionate or loving. Does that make sense to you?

8:53 PM Jim: Lil2Spunki at :50, midlife crisis men tend to be either very kind or very mean, but they are still trying to get space between themselves and their wife. A mean husband is trying to force his wife into filing for divorce. A kind husband is trying to fool his wife about what he is doing.

8:50 PM [doveseyes] 49 wow...wow..that's sobering...

8:51 PM [mariposa] Jim: You have no idea how many times I have read "Your Husband's MLC" by Sally and "Men in Mid-Life Crisis". It has been over the last seven year period. I never dreamed you had this website or that I would ever have the chance to ask you questions. I am so thankful for this ministry and you taking your time to help all of us. I have held those books up in the greatest esteem and shared them with many people.

8:54 PM Jim: mariposa at :51, thank you so much for your appreciation and affirmation - remember that flattery will get you everything.

8:51 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie - are you planning on acknowledging your anniversary to h?

8:51 PM [koko] doveseyes and plum. listen to Air1 radio, Christian music, every day I listen, every day a new song give me strength

8:52 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy thank you. I’m not sure about the anniversary. I don't even know what to say. the most personal thing I said to him in the last few months has been hope you have a nice thanksgiving. xo

8:53 PM [hepsy] Jim - I second what mariposa said at 51. I have received more help and encouragement from this site than all the months I have been seeing my therapist. Thank you for this ministry. I was in the pit of despair before I found this place. God bless you.

8:55 PM Jim: hepsy AND ALL at :53, I'm also grateful for your encouragement. It would be great if those of you who feel this way would write a paragraph that we can use as we talk to people about supporting this ministry. We are a non-profit ministry that depends totally on donations. So your stories could be a big help.

8:54 PM [koko] lil2spunki @ 50 sounds just like my W for most part very kind but definitely not affectionate

8:54 PM [lalachrissie] Jim @ :53 that's interesting. my h has been kind, except for one really mean outburst early on.

8:56 PM Jim: lalachrissie at :54, frequently men will flip back and forth between these two ways of acting.

8:54 PM [doveseyes] koko..ok..I will check it out

8:54 PM [Lil2Spunki] Jim - Does that mean that there is a better chance that he is a cheater? I don't know whether to be suspicious or just not to even worry about AW until God decides to present it.

8:57 PM Jim: Lil2Spunki at :54, don't try and figure out what your husband's actions mean, he has already clearly signaled to you that he is dissatisfied with the marriage if he wants big changes - so keep on growing and changing.

8:55 PM [plumcrazy] JIM--You just confirmed what I thought about H all along. He is being meant to try and get me to file for divorce or tell him to leave.

8:55 PM [lalachrissie] Jim what do you suggest about acknowledging anniversaries. my anniversary is Sunday, but we only have contact via text or email about finances and children

8:58 PM Jim: lalachrissie at :55, for now - forget the anniversaries, they have too much emotional romance and emotional attachment.

8:55 PM [Lil2Spunki] lalachrissie - Yes... my H as well. One night he just got so angry and had to take a drive. So out of character. He does weird things but he is not the venomous personality that I so often hear about.

8:56 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie - it can be awkward.. I know.. I gave my h a card and he gave me nothing for our 23rd and 24th.. but on our 25th (for years I had dreamed of renewing our vows in front of friends and family) I was so depressed and was sure he would ignore it.. but surprisingly, he did give me a card...

8:56 PM [mariposa] Jim: I would be happy to write a paragraph about my experiences with this ministry. Where do I send it?

8:56 PM [plumcrazy] JIM---Would love to do that Where would we post that though?

8:59 PM jim: mariposa/plumcrazy at :56, send it an email to Lisa please. This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

8:58 PM [mariposa] all: My H has not mentioned divorce since Oct. 17. I pray each morning that he will not mention it that day. I believe this is a praise but am also afraid that he is just waiting until after the holidays to spring it on my again.

8:59 PM [koko] Jim we are all going to a xmas spectacular performance at a church this weekend they put on 4 free shows they give tickets to. they run out within 2 hours

9:00 PM Jim: koko at :59, that's a good safe thing to do as a family because it doesn't have any romantic overtones and it is very public.

8:59 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy thank you for listening to me tonight. I’m going to go.

8:59 PM [MAS] mariposa @58: I've been waiting for the "other shoe to drop" for 3 years now.

8:59 PM [lalachrissie] all- goodnight

9:00 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie - me too.. hang in there, ok? I will be praying for you...

9:00 PM [mariposa] MAS: So you have been separated for 3 years?

9:00 PM [plumcrazy] JIM--That reminded me. Yesterday H said something about leaving in a little while longer. Hadn’t mentioned that for over a yr. I didn’t react ignored it Was that right thing to do?

9:01 PM [hepsy] night all...

9:01 PM [MAS] mariposa @00: Yes, it'll be 4 years in March.

9:01 PM [Lil2Spunki] mariposa - what is your situation again. Please refresh me

9:01 PM [mariposa] MAS: I feel I can handle this separation as long as it is temporary while he get himself together. It is when he starts talking divorce that I panic.

9:01 PM Jim: Thanks everyone for being in the chat room today. If you got lost during the chat process, check back later to find the edited chat dialogue posted in the archives, there you can read it at your own pace. It's been fun talking with you today. We, at Midlife Dimensions, will remember you and your marriages in prayer throughout the week. Warmly in Christ, Jim. James 4:8, Draw near to God and He will draw near to you.

9:02 PM [MarySarah] Jim What do you know about over enmeshment between a parent & child, esp. a H in MLC & a dtr? Do some children actually compete with one parent for the other parent's affection. Can a jealous teen actually put a strain on marriage & push a parent near MLC further towards it?

9:02 PM [MAS] mariposa 01: I completely understand. I still panic after all these years. I make sure I NEVER mention it.

9:02 PM [koko] good night all

9:02 PM [doveseyes] thanks as always Jim..good advice..goodnight

9:02 PM [dogwood] mariposa-- did your H tell you that is temporary?

9:03 PM [lisak] Hi ALL, I'm back in as myself now.

9:03 PM [dogwood] Jim-- thanks, you are so wise and so is your advice

9:03 PM [doveseyes] hi Lisa...good thanksgiving?

9:03 PM [MAS] mariposa: How long has it been for you?

9:03 PM [mariposa] Lil2Spunki: I got the speech in 2003. He has had affairs and in July moved to his own apartment. I know he has a sexual addiction along with the MLC. He has pushed for divorce since he moved out but has not mentioned it since Oct. 17.

9:03 PM [lisak] MarySarah, sorry you got here right when chat ended and Jim left the room. Hopefully you can catch him next time with that question.

9:03 PM [MarySarah] swan it seems our oldest still buys all the lies her dad tells & almost gloats over My H leaving 7 she says it has nothing to do with ow & I need get over it. She remembers nothing that is reality based & even spews the same garbage my H does

:04 PM [mariposa] MAS: MLC since 2003 but he just moved out of the home in July of this year.

9:04 PM [MarySarah] Lisa remind me if you think of it

9:04 PM [plumcrazy] Hello Lisa--has Jim seen the emails I sent there yet?

9:04 PM [lisak] MarySarah at :04, not sure what you are referring to?

9:04 PM [Lil2Spunki] mariposa - How old is H? Has he always dealt with the addiction?

9:05 PM [MAS] lisak: Do you still plan on posting the pictures from retreat?

9:05 PM [mariposa] dogwood: No, when he first moved out he kept saying that he was not buying anything that we could not use at the house but he quickly started talking divorce after moving out.

9:05 PM [lisak] plumcrazy at :04, I did forward them on to him, but we have not spoken for a week because of Thanksgiving. I was in Oregon for the week, and Jim & Jan had family visiting them.

9:06 PM [MarySarah] Anyone, Does having a child that is codependent, needy, obsessive, manipulative herself, college aged with weird ideas & rebellious spirit feed into our H's MLC as the child & H are at near same level emotionally?

9:06 PM [mariposa] Lil2Spunki: H is 50 and now that I know more about the addiction I believe he has suffered from it for a long time. It has just moved to different degrees.

9:06 PM [lisak] plumcrazy at :04, in reference to the email about Pam's comment in her book, I believe that is in the context of an emotionally or physically abusive marriage.

9:07 PM [MarySarah] Lisa & swan clarify 10:04, does this seem typical of some children of MLCers?

9:07 PM [mariposa] MAS: Do you get any signs that he will ever reconcile?

9:08 PM [Lil2Spunki] mariposa - That is just it. My H is 38. I don't see any addictions other than his workaholic nature right now. I do fear another that there may be or will be AW. I see him as confused and lost in MLC. I have turned him over to God as he is not my child to fix.

9:08 PM [plumcrazy] Lisa--OK Thanks. I think it is too. I thought it may be helpful to have on the website though. Some people are in those situations. I mistakenly had thought Jim had wrote that and I told him I would send it when I found it if it wasn’t him

9:08 PM [dogwood] mariposa-- did you not divide up your assets when he moved out? is he paying for his extra expense and housing, keeping your joint account?

9:08 PM [MarySarah] Lisa Do the Farrel's speak of emotionally abusive marriages?

9:08 PM [doveseyes] marysarah..my guess would be yes..I have watched my son do the same thing..I don't know about feeding into it..but I have watched him use the mlc to his advantage...finically, and rebelliously

9:09 PM [MarySarah] doveseyes how old is your son?

9:09 PM [lisak] MAS at :05. Yes - I would like to. I need to get through bunches of emails to find any that were sent to me. (I didn't take any myself) I also have requests to not post photos of certain people on the site, so I have to be really careful with what I choose.

9:09 PM [doveseyes] marysarah..I know Dennis Rainey’s ministry has had some awesome shows on emotionally abusive marriages..

9:09 PM [doveseyes] marysarah..my son is 17

9:09 PM [mariposa] dogwood: We did not divide up any assets. I still pay all of the house bills from our joint account with the exception of his apartment and anything he spends on it or himself.

9:10 PM [MAS] MarySarah @06: I often think that my D may have helped to push H further away. Before she moved back here, my H seemed much less detached and more eager to have a relationship. She has become extremely close to him and he has become more distant to me.

9:10 PM [plumcrazy] LISA--Well can you send copies to all that were at retreat if that is ok with everyone

9:10 PM [lisak] MarySarah at :07 - it sounds typical of teenagers, especially girls.

9:11 PM [dogwood] mariposa-- thanks, I often wonder how that works, apparently, your H is willing to spend additional cost for renting apt

9:11 PM [MarySarah] doveseyes our dtr is 19 she has been hostile on & off towards me esp. since a sophomore in Hs, but ages 11-14 weren't so easy either

9:11 PM [lisak] plumcrazy at :10 - yes I can forward the photos on to everyone at the retreat, just for them.

9:12 PM [lisak] The series and the books mentioned in the Chat Room can be ordered through http://astore.amazon.com  · · · dlife-20. Amazon will send a donation back to the ministry of Midlife Dimensions anytime an order for ANYTHING on Amazon is placed through our link. You can also find this link on our website: www.midlife.com.

9:12 PM [doveseyes] marysarah..you can go to oneplace..and look up the ministry by name..family life today..I remember one counselor was on there talking about that subject and it was good..I deal with the same issue with my h

9:12 PM [plumcrazy] LISA--I would love that THANKS!!!

9:12 PM [mariposa] dogwood: Does your H still live at home? I can't remember your situation.

9:12 PM [lisak] Lord God, please help us to make amends with any family and friends as we journey through this time of year, with sincere hearts that are free from bitterness and blame. Please bless this chat in the archives as others read it, that it would be helpful to them and bring glory to You. In Jesus’ Name, Amen

9:13 PM [plumcrazy] AMEN

9:13 PM [Lil2Spunki] AMEN!!!

9:13 PM [MarySarah] Mas, Lisa, all I would never have wanted to come between my parents, but I guess we were pretty healthy overall, no favorites, the family ran as a unit, but we all still had a little time alone with each parent, also weren't treated like "princesses" not spoiled. My H thinks spoiling kids is ok, I don't

9:13 PM [doveseyes] marysarah..I know we are the safe one to lash out at..I am so sorry..I often have felt the "attacks" from them..it can get so hard..

9:13 PM [doveseyes] amen

9:13 PM [MarySarah] MAS other people saw how dtr came between H & I

9:14 PM [MAS] mariposa @07: Only during the first year, the year that he left. Initially, he had talked about the possibility of starting over as friends, then seeing where our relationship developed. After that, I could tell he was becoming more and more detached, until finally, I discovered he was seeing OW.

9:14 PM [Lil2Spunki] MarySarah - I have D13 that is playing both H and I. H has a special attachment to her.

9:14 PM [dogwood] lisak-- thanks, I will email you asking for local referrals of therapists per Jim.

9:15 PM [doveseyes] marysarah..I was told and try everyday to ask for grace to love them..I know that more than anything can help stabilize them during this horrible time

9:15 PM [MarySarah] doveseyes. Sorry, it is so hard to go through this when they leave, esp. if we were emotionally battered down for years before, hard to remember it is NOT about us

9:15 PM [lisak] MarySarah at :13, but from what I know about your relationship with your husband, you "spoiled" him....meaning you did everything and was "super wife". I'm guessing that you probably did that for your daughter too, at least to an extent, even if you don't realize it.

9:15 PM [plumcrazy] Doveseyes can you email me info about the Rainey ministry?

9:15 PM [mariposa] MAS: I'm sorry. OWland is so hard to deal with emotionally. How long has that been going on?

9:16 PM [MarySarah] Doveseyes Yes, they almost have no choice they don't want to lose other parent & it feeds our MLCers bad behavior,

9:16 PM [doveseyes] marysarah 15..amen..I would often think..so this is the type of woman you value?

9:16 PM [MarySarah] doveseyes oneplace also has sermons now from Rev Wilcox from theological foundations & spirit of Hosea on marriage take a listen

9:17 PM [doveseyes] plum..ok..I will look up that particular show I was talking about and let you know

9:17 PM [doveseyes] marysarah..ok..I will do that..

9:17 PM [MarySarah] lil2spunk sometimes they become alienated, which is so bad for the kids & hurts us all

9:18 PM [plumcrazy] Doveseyes--Do you think my H is emotionally abusive?

9:18 PM [Lil2Spunki] All - Just wanted to say goodnight. I am exhausted with MLC for today. I will be praying for you all tonight.

9:18 PM [MarySarah] adult children of parental alienation syndrome Amy Baker.....good book

9:18 PM [plumcrazy] goodnight Lil2Spunki Take care

9:19 PM [swan] All - it is well past time to close, the room is going to close in a minute so please wrap it up.

9:19 PM [doveseyes] plum18...yes...don't you? this is only from what little you have told me/us

9:19 PM [MarySarah] doveseyes, I often find myself praying some same things for H & dtr. Want them both to have Damascus road experience

9:19 PM [lisak] Goodnight everyone.

9:19 PM [doveseyes] 19plum..that's an uneducated guess...

9:19 PM [lisak] swan - thank you for all you do for us.

9:19 PM [plumcrazy] Dove--Yes I was wondering if others saw that too though

9:19 PM [mariposa] Swan: Yes, thank you for typing up the archives. I always read them !!!

9:19 PM [MAS] mariposa: I found out about OW 1 year ago at Christmas. He's been seeing her for about 2 years as far as I know.

8:07 PM [mariposa] Jim and all: I am so confused after Thanksgiving!! H went to our Thanksgiving service at church Wed. night with us and held my hand (first time in a long, long time) then came to the house and spent the night (on the couch) --had a great day Thursday with lots of interaction and then he left Thurs night about 10 to go back to his apartment. Did not hear anything else from him all weekend although I invited him to come over for the big football game to watch with our son. So very, very confusing to my emotions.

8:10 PM Jim: mariposa at: 07, you are experiencing the typical type of reactions that midlife crisis men have as they are stumbling toward reconnection. When they are with their wife, they feel good and secure and they give off vibrations of wanting to be closer - but as soon as they get away, they begin to ask themselves, "what in the world did I just do"? Then they drop back into an isolation mode hoping to get better control of their emotions. Overall, this is very good news and you just keep doing things you have been working on that are drawing him back to you - but don't assume that 1 good time means that he is ready to jump back into the relationship with both feet. He is merrily dipping his finger in the water of the marriage swimming pool to see what the4 temperature is before he decides to go for a swim.

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