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November 22, 2010 / with Jim Conway

8:07 PM [Bluesky] Hi Jim, I feel like I have fallen off the face of the earth to my in-laws, no invite for TG, no compassion or anything since h announced he wanted a div. Your thoughts.

8:15 PM [Jim] Bluesky @:07, intellectually you understand what is happening, in that your in-laws are siding against you, nevertheless - try to understand that they are siding with their own flesh and blood, try to plan some events that will be fun for you with some other supportive friends.

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You have entered CR#2 with Jim Conway 11/22/10.

8:02 PM [Jim] Hi All, I'm looking forward to Thanksgiving - remembering all that God has done for all of us.

8:04 PM [swan] Hello everyone, how are you tonight?

8:05 PM [plumcrazy] Dove--Remember JIM said he could give you info on schools for that!!!

8:06 PM [MAS] Hello, Doveseyes. How are you? Haven't heard from you since retreat.

8:07 PM [doveseyes] Jim..dreading thanksgiving..

8:13 PM [Jim] doveseyes at:07, Thanksgiving is a tough time for everyone whose family is in trouble. Let's help each other.

8:07 PM [Bluesky] Hi Jim, I feel like I have fallen off the face of the earth to my in-laws, no invite for TG, no compassion or anything since h announced he wanted a div. Your thoughts.

8:15 PM [Jim] Bluesky @:07, intellectually you understand what is happening, in that your in-laws are siding against you, nevertheless - try to understand that they are siding with their own flesh and blood, try to plan some events that will be fun for you with some other supportive friends.

8:07 PM [doveseyes] mas07..just ok..wish we were back at retreat..how r u?

8:09 PM [Bluesky] swan Hi, are you caught up on your rest today?

8:09 PM [plumcrazy] JIM--We are doing Thanksgiving here. My in-laws are coming like they usually do. There was a small misunderstanding caused by my phrasing of a question. The GREAT thing is H got over by the next day and didn’t hold a grudge for 2 weeks PTL!!!1

8:16 PM [Jim] plumcrazy :09, remember to bathe this whole holiday time in prayer, because these little misunderstandings can cause great pain.

8:09 PM [MAS] doveseyes. I'm ok. I know what you mean. I wish we were back there too.

8:09 PM [doveseyes] mas..are you still having thanksgiving with H

8:10 PM [Bluesky] MAS is ow still going to be there?

8:10 PM [swan] Bluesky - I don't know about caught up, but I did get lots of sleep last night, but had to run out today and take care of errands, been baking most of the afternoon for Thanksgiving, but I am not feeling as tired

8:10 PM [MAS] doveseyes Yes, I am. Everyone convinced me I should go.

8:10 PM [Bluesky] swan glad to hear, who are you baking for?

8:11 PM [MAS] Bluesky Oh no! She was never scheduled to be there! That would be a whole different story altogether--I would never even consider going if that were the case.

8:11 PM [Lil2Spunki] All - I need some thoughts. H has sent some texts and emails to me but basically around me to the kids. Saying that he loves them and misses them. I cry when I read them as they make me feel so excluded but then I realize that he is not himself. I prayed on it and I responded in kindness.... not right away. I have no idea what to expect when he returns home on Thanksgiving. Do I just continue on as normal when he returns?

8:11 PM [doveseyes] 10mas..good...will b keeping you in my prayers.

8:11 PM [swan] My sister and her family, I am going back up to St. Louis Wed and will spend a couple days then back home for awhile.

8:12 PM [Bluesky] MAS OH, I thought she was, my mistake. I thought were going to be wonder woman to do that.

8:12 PM [plumcrazy] JIM That misunderstanding is the only one we have had since I got back from retreat. I have been doing what you suggested holding my tongue and backing away from H. He is actually helping me around the house a lot. He is being pleasant and we have had some nice family times. He seems to be perusing me for intimacy as I have been giving him space

8:12 PM [Lil2Spunki] plumcrazy - Would you share your situation with me? I can't keep everyone straight. Sorry.

8:13 PM [MAS] Bluesky I may have gotten more strength over the past few months, but believe me, I am not THAT strong!

8:13 PM [doveseyes] Jim..how should my mindset be? Do I think of myself as a married woman? So I think of myself as a single woman?

8:16 PM [Jim] doveseyes at :13, No, think of yourself as a married woman and continue to ask for God's intervention.

8:14 PM [hepsy] Bluesky - I am sorry about the no invite for TG. ((hugs)) I have the same problem even though my h is not wanting d. I ended up calling my mil regarding TG plans. She said she lost my email (whatever.. she knows my phone number - excuse!)

8:14 PM [Bluesky] swan oh, wow, how long of a drive is it?

8:14 PM [plumcrazy] Lil2spunki--H gave speech I love you but not in love with you in March 2008. then turned NASTY suicidal etc. Married 22 yrs D15 S12. He is depressed NO OW. Is still home He is 50 I am 45

8:14 PM [swan] Bluesky - 4 hours

8:14 PM [MAS] doveseyes Thank you so much, and you will be in mine. I pray that you will be ok for Thanksgiving.

8:14 PM [doveseyes] Jim13 ok ..will pack my bags and be in Hawaii by 12 on the 26th..ha ha

8:17 PM [Jim] doveseyes at :14, looks like we'll have lots of people out in Hawaii over the holidays - unfortunately I won't be there. I'll be in Michigan with lots of relatives.

8:15 PM [Lil2Spunki] plumcrazy - did he ever leave home? Display of Replay behaviors?

8:15 PM [Bluesky] MAS I really misunderstood that convo last week.

8:15 PM [plumcrazy] Lil2spunki--H got upset said he was leaving for good Came back 3 hrs later

8:15 PM [MAS] doveseyes My H thinks of himself as divorced, but I will always think of myself as married.

8:15 PM [hepsy] Lil2Spunki - I know how you feel - my h loves my kids but acts like he hates me. It is good that you turned the other cheek and responded in kindness. You are setting an example for your kids.

8:16 PM [hepsy] hi lalachrissie!

8:16 PM [Bluesky] hepsy she lost your email? oh my, and she lost her son's too?

8:16 PM [plumcrazy] Lil2spunki--I would have to look at replay behaviors what are they?

8:16 PM [Bluesky] swan boy, you are going to be ready to stop soon.

8:16 PM [Lil2Spunki] plumcrazy - wow.. my H came back 5 days later. Did you continually get the not in love with you speech since he came back?

8:16 PM [hepsy] bluesky - yeah.. excuse.. I saw through that.. but whatever..

8:16 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy hi, how are you?

8:17 PM [Lil2Spunki] plumcrazy - Sorry.. I suppose anything that would be replaying their youth.

8:17 PM [Bluesky] Jim thanks, you are right I do intellectually, thanks for the reminder. Still difficult to get past though.

8:17 PM [doveseyes] Jim at 16..ok..and how do you mentally handle information you receive about activities with other women he is dating?

8:18 PM [Jim] doveseyes at :17, remember that the issue is not the other woman. Don't think about her and don't try to hear anything about her.

8:17 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie - doing good. My preschool class had our thanksgiving feast today.. I have another one tomorrow with my class.. then I will be off.. will be glad for the break. What about you?

8:17 PM [MAS] Bluesky @15- That's okay. Just so you know that there's no way on earth I would be in the same room as OW. I'm not as kind and understanding as some others in here.

8:17 PM [Bluesky] hepsy thanks

8:18 PM [plumcrazy] Lil2spunki--No I don’t. He told me that he doesn’t know it he could ever love me like a man should love his wife though That was a yr ago last summer

8:18 PM [doveseyes] Jim at 17..how fun..will all the grandkids be present?

8:18 PM [Jim] doveseyes at :18, it will be mainly Jan's grandchildren.

8:18 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy WOW! Three Thanksgiving feats in one week for you...

8:18 PM [Lil2Spunki] plumcrazy - Hmm. Does he go to your family functions then?

8:18 PM [swan] Bluesky - Yeah, I think I have been up to St. Louis more times in these past few weeks than I have in the past four years. My sister wanted to cancel the holidays at first, but that upset her 11 year old, her husband suggested that instead of canceling, we used it to get reconnected and invited me to come, so I am going.

8:18 PM [plumcrazy] Lil2spunki--No Does say he wishes he could go back in time and never been with me

8:18 PM [doveseyes] Jim at 18 ok..I can attempt to do that

8:19 PM [Bluesky] MAS good to know, I was like, boy I couldn't do that at all, I was thinking about that a lot this weekend. Whew.....

8:19 PM [plumcrazy] Lil2spunki--My family is in KS. Haven’t seen them in 3yrs

8:19 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie - ha! well, really 4 - I am going to my mom's for lunch on Thur and then mil Thur evening. I am tired just thinking about it!

8:19 PM [Lil2Spunki] Jim - Is it odd that my H would still go to my family functions after just telling me he has no feelings and trudges through marriage when it is the right thing to do?

8:22 PM [Jim] Lil2Spunki at :19, It's part of the confusion that your husband is feeling. He would like things to be different, but he doesn't want to cause too much chaos by withdrawing.

8:20 PM [Lil2Spunki] plumcrazy - are you living in indifference right now then?

8:20 PM [hepsy] bluesky - if you lived closer I would invite you over!! Do you have some friends you could get together with?

8:20 PM [Bluesky] swan that is nice, glad the 11 spoke up. Whatcha baking?

8:20 PM [plumcrazy] JIM I am reading LOVE & RESPECT right now. Very good book and helpful!!

8:22 PM [Jim] plumcrazy at :20, it's a great book and there is a terrific video series that goes with it.

8:20 PM [plumcrazy] Lil2spunki--Yes I think so

8:21 PM [lalachrissie] Jim If my H doesn't contact me about the children and the children have decided to have no contact with him, should I offer information to him, or just let him come to me?

8:23 PM [Jim] lalachrissie at :21, try not to create conversations with him, but be as helpful as possible when he seeks information.

8:21 PM [swan] Bluesky - pumpkin pie, chocolate pie (for sister), black berry pie for brother, and chocolate turtle cake for brother in law, bread stuffing and cornbread stuffing.

8:21 PM [Lil2Spunki] plumcrazy - do you still share the same bed or have you gone to separate rooms?

8:22 PM [plumcrazy] Lil2spunki--Same bed

8:22 PM [MAS] Bluesky

8:22 PM [dogwood] Jim--Since H had a huge baggage with my mother in the past, Would it be a good idea (therapeutic) to ask him talk with a friend of mine who had a much worse Mother-in-law experience in her marriage in the past? Since H does not want to see a therapist? Also, can you recommend therapists

8:24 PM [Jim] dogwood at :22, You must make sure that your husband doesn't feel that you are manipulating the situation by suggesting that someone talk to him. Yes there are several good therapists within driving distance of your home.

8:22 PM [doveseyes] plum..I think things sounds better...yeaaaaaaaaa

8:22 PM [Lil2Spunki] plumcrazy - Wow... I think that we might just be in the exact same boat except that H has been working out of town for the last couple of months.

8:22 PM [Bluesky] hepsy oh don't get me wrong, my son is coming home so I won't be alone. It was the principal of it. Haven't heard a word from them until today and that was from MIL telling me of the family plans. I just got a bit irritated by it.

8:23 PM [Bluesky] swan Oh my YUMMMY, I want to be with you and your food.

8:23 PM [hepsy] bluesky - I am sure.. well, it is good that you have your son. That is something to be thankful for. Your d will be with your h, right? What are their plans/

8:23 PM [Lil2Spunki] Jim - Do I just let him decide what he does and does not want to do at this point. He has made it clear that he does not want me but has nowhere else to go. I see all the signs of MLC and I am aware of the processes that go along with it.

8:25 PM [Jim] Lil2Spunki @:23, for now, take as much pressure off of him as possible, keep things very upbeat, friendly, and fun, and keep working on your own growth.

8:24 PM [plumcrazy] JIM Did you see where I said that I have been doing what you suggested at retreat and things have greatly improved and I have backed off H is pursuing intimacy and helping me out around the house

8:25 PM [Jim] plumcrazy at :24, That's great news.

8:24 PM [lalachrissie] Jim he doesn't call, but sometimes he emails or texts. it's been almost two months since he called

8:26 PM [Jim] lalachrissie at :24, look for logical reasons to contact him about the children or family - but make sure these are informational bits that he wants to know about.

8:25 PM [swan] Bluesky - My sister isn't much for cooking, so I will be cooking the turkey, mashed potatoes, gravy, etc. when I get up there. My brother in law is pretty happy about that. Says he remembers my cooking from years ago, it was kind of an ego boost for me.

8:25 PM [Bluesky] hepsy yes, I am still a bit angry about that too. But oh well.

8:25 PM [Lil2Spunki] plumcrazy - does you H avoid you still?

8:26 PM [Bluesky] swan well with that line up of deserts, I wouldn't need an turkey!

8:26 PM [mariposa] Jim: Yesterday H called me. Sounded like he was crying. Said that he was having a very hard time and wanted to talk to me about what I had been learning in counseling. Then his phone went dead and he texted that he would call me later but never did. I saw him today and I asked him if he wanted to talk tonight but he was kind gave short answer so I doubt he calls.

8:29 PM [Jim] mariposa at :26, drop him a short email telling him that you're sorry that the phone went dead, but since that time you have been praying especially for God to bless his life.

8:26 PM [plumcrazy] Lil2spunki--Not as much anymore. Jim gave me some GREAT advice and I FINALLY got it I think. I have been doing lots of reading also of books recommended here. There are great resources on this site

8:27 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy has your H still been giving you time in the mornings to talk with him?

8:27 PM [Bluesky] Bluesky sheesh, I guess it my night for typos

8:27 PM [swan] Bluesky - I spoke with my daughter yesterday and they are all going up to spend thanksgiving with their dad, it is good, but I have to admit that it didn't help the anger I am feeling for my husband right now. I think it is good I will be with family, maybe it will help me work through the anger and get back to the place I was before.

8:27 PM [Lil2Spunki] Jim - I started working on my own growth even before this all started so I think that as a positive. I don't contact. If he contacts, I don't respond right away but I do respond after praying on it. It was suggested that I don't say that I love him at this point. He will be back home on Thursday. Do I just try to be out of the house more often to give him this space?

8:30 PM [Jim] Lil2Spunki at :27, remember that your growth has to be related to his needs and what he expects in a marriage relationship. Let me ask you how you are doing in the three areas that midlife men complain about. 1. Midlife Men complain that their wives are naggy, controlling, and often boss them around like children (sometimes men do act like children). 2. Midlife Men complain that their wives are overweight, out of shape, and do not care about physical appearance. Men are very visual, & when their wife looks good to them, that translates that she is interested in sex. A high priority in a man’s life is regular, exciting sex for which he doesn’t have to beg. 3. Midlife Men complain that their wives have not had a new thought since they got married. They complain that their wives are not growing intellectually or in their careers, which makes them very dependent and clingy -- which is often negative to a midlife man. How are you doing in these three areas?

8:28 PM [mariposa] Jim: I just never know what mood I'll find him in. I want to talk to him about what all I’ve learned like he asked but I want him in the right frame of mind to do it.

8:31 PM [Jim] mariposa at :28 remember to be fun, light, and pleasant in the office so that he sees you as a positive addition.

8:28 PM [dogwood] Jim--My friend suggested to me that she would be willing to talk to him but she does not know him that well. She was my school mate. I wonder if I can simply let H know that this person has some bad experiences . Can I get a list of your recommendations from Lisa?

8:32 PM [Jim] dogwood at :28, remember what I said earlier..... Make sure that your husband doesn't feel that you are putting this woman up to this. And yes, our office can give recommendations for a counselor to you.

8:28 PM [Lil2Spunki] plumcrazy - can you share some of that great advice. I have not gotten any of the books that I have ordered yet. Sitting here feeling restless.

8:28 PM [Bluesky] swan I totally understand, I am glad too you will be with family. Oh the anger, it comes and go doesn't it.

8:29 PM [hepsy] calla! hi there!

8:29 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy That's good though. Have you thought about things that you can talk about that might engage him longer?

8:29 PM [calla] hepsy - hi, how are you?

8:29 PM [plumcrazy] JIM The session with Jan really helped Was like a big weight had been lifted from me. I did backslide when I first got home but then I said to my self "Stop it!!! Don’t you want this to end. Don’t you want to SAVE your marriage." I asked is it really necessary to ask H about this or will it make things worse?"

8:32 PM [Jim] plumcrazy at :29, I'm glad to hear that the session with Jan was a help to you - I think I should leave the sessions more often so that Jan can share.

8:30 PM [mariposa] Jim: Ok, I will. Thanks, Good idea.

8:30 PM [MAS] Bluesky When is your H planning to leave?

8:30 PM [swan] Bluesky - it is mostly just anger at my husband because I had to go through the loss of my mother, all the emotions it resurfaced, etc. alone (more or less), my husband should have been there for me, like I was for him when he lost his parents.

8:30 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie - my brain seems to freeze up - I try to think of things - but it is awkward and I feel like I might say the wrong thing and he will stop even trying to have these talks.. so I keep it light - I think that is what Jim says to do..

8:31 PM [Bluesky] MAS I really don't know the date, all he said was in Jan.

8:31 PM [Bluesky] swan I agree with you.

8:32 PM [mariposa] Jim: He is a doctor. All of the employees just wear scrubs but I wore a dress today and looked my best. Showed him that I was trying hard to step in a help out in a pinch.

8:33 PM [Jim] mariposa at :32, good for you - keep remembering that guys are very visual and frequently that doctors are very needy, but no one to turn to.

8:32 PM [Bluesky] MAS I am the last to know anything apparently.

8:32 PM [dogwood] Jim--thanks, that is too hard, I better just keep quiet and let the Lord does the job

8:32 PM [calla] hepsy - funny, I was feeling pretty sorry for myself this weekend. I have spent the past couple of days concentrating on my blessings and I am better now.:)

8:33 PM [Bluesky] mariposa good for you!

8:33 PM [hepsy] dogwood - I tried to get one of the pastors at our church to speak to my h - this was a couple of years ago - my h got angry and thought I was behind the whole thing - so he thought I was being manipulative.

8:33 PM [mariposa] doveseyes: How are you doing? What are your TG plans?

8:33 PM [Lil2Spunki] Jim - he primary complaint is that he has been dictated to for the entire marriage. I pulled back off wanting to know anything these last 5 months since BD. I have lost 63lbs and start my gym membership on Friday. Everyone else notices how good I look... he has commented once or twice. Intimacy has not ever been an issue until this unfolded. I have become the pursurer over the past few years and have tried to keep it interesting.

8:35 PM [Jim] Lil2Spunki at :33, Congratulations to you for getting yourself in shape - it's hard work but you will feel better about yourself and so will your husband. But remember he will need to watch you for several months to see if this is a temporary pattern, or if you have really changed.

8:33 PM [doveseyes] Jim32 no..both ...you and Jan

8:36 PM [Jim] doveseyes at :33, OK, I'll keep hanging out with Jan.

8:33 PM [Bluesky] dogwood :32 that is probably a wise decision.

8:33 PM [dogwood] hepsy-- thanks, I will give up the idea

8:34 PM [hepsy] calla - me too.. I am trying to be a "thanks giver!" What are you doing for thanksgiving?

8:34 PM [doveseyes] Jim. My H last week had lunch with kids. H didn't want to bring daughter to meet me because he didn't want to see me. Why?

8:36 PM [Jim] doveseyes at :34, having family members there makes him feel more guilty - just ignore it for now.

8:35 PM [calla] hepsy - going to my parent's - not sure if H will join us or not. He didn't last year. The kids really want him to and have been praying and praying. His answer thus far is "I don't know." Whatever. What about you?

8:35 PM [Lil2Spunki] Jim - Even though he avoids everything that I do or say right now... Does he notice?

8:37 PM [Jim] Lil2Spunki at :35, yes he is noticing as men notice - which sometimes is not what a woman thinks.

8:36 PM [doveseyes] marip..just ok..actually sad. Missing my H really bad..wanting my family back intact. thanksgiving will be spent at my moms with lots of family..we always have a good time

8:36 PM [hepsy] calla - do you think h won't go because he feels guilt? We are going to my mom's for lunch and mil for dinner. I was afraid my h might not go - he has been pulling back from many gatherings.. so far he seems to be still going.

8:36 PM [dogwood] All-- my daughter offers to have thanksgiving at their place (daughter and son-in-law). I told H and he did not say No as of now. Please pray for me that will be a healing experience, not too awkward.

8:36 PM [doveseyes] jim35..good for you..I don’t blame you. I want to be like Jan when I grow up...

8:37 PM [mariposa] doveseyes: Glad you will be with family. So sorry you are having a sad time. I certainly understand.

8:37 PM [doveseyes] 37mari..I know..I wish you didn't have to understand..it stinks...

8:38 PM [Jim] doveseyes at :37, yes - counselors suggestions are always easier said, than to be carried out - but God wants to help you in this process.

8:38 PM [Lil2Spunki] Jim - will I recognize when he is in true depression. He is teary quite often when talking about work and responsibilities. Admits and retracts depression. Also says that his emotions are on a rollercoaster right now but is convinced that I am the reason for all his unhappiness.

8:40 PM [Jim] Lil2Spunki at :38, it would be helpful if he could realize that his depression is also influencing his work. If he could get on some anti-depressant meds, or even simple herbal things like St. John's Wort, it could be a big help to him.

8:38 PM [hepsy] dogwood - I will pray that all goes well.. it can be uncomfortable, for sure. I am not looking forward to going to mil house - I feel like they all blame me for this..

8:38 PM [plumcrazy] Hey BoscosDad--You going to pick on me again tonight?

8:39 PM [MAS] dogwood It's going to be awkward for me too, but it will be a good thing if your H agrees to go.

8:39 PM [boscosdad] Plum: You're doing it again...

8:39 PM [doveseyes] 38jim..ok..u r right. I often thought how hard this mlc is..because we are going through menopause..teen kids are leaving the nest..the perfect storm?

8:42 PM [Jim] doveseyes :39, yes, it is a perfect storm - WHAT WAS GOD THINKING!!!!!

8:39 PM [Bluesky] plumcrazy did you answer the question earlier of the great advice you got? Someone asked you to share?

8:40 PM [dogwood] MAS-- yes, my D may still feel uncomfortable, but she thought it will be better than coming to our house. which I agree, H can spend time watching football with SIL

8:40 PM [plumcrazy] BoscosDad--I am just teasing you!!!! CHILL MAN!!!

8:40 PM [hepsy] doveseyes - absolutely! the perfect storm - I nearly crashed last year with both my kids leaving the nest at the same time, me going through menopausal symptoms, and h going through mlc! I didn't even know about this site yet! Terrible year!

8:41 PM [plumcrazy] Blue--I don’t think I answered Lil2Spunki

8:41 PM [Bluesky] doveseyes Ah, great analogy!! I love it.

8:41 PM [mariposa] Jim: Usually when H is feeling really down he starts in on wanting a divorce. I felt that him wanting to talk about my counseling was a positive sign? Perhaps to see what I have been learning that could help us? Am I reading too much into this?

8:43 PM [Jim] mariposa at :41, your insight is very good. As he is depressed, he talks more about divorce. Keep the big picture in mind that the problem depression and dissatisfaction with himself.

8:42 PM [doveseyes] hepsy40..wow..wow..but u made it..right?

8:42 PM [Lil2Spunki] Jim - Actually funny that you mentioned that. I had him started on St. Johns Wort prior to him having to take Naoprex for some shoulder problems. I don't know that he will be receptive to anything I say or do when he returns so I don't know how to gently suggest that he get back to taking vitamins and the St. Johns Wort other than just sitting it out for him.

8:44 PM [Jim] Lil2Spunki at :42, when he talks about stress at work, that's the time to mention St. John's Wort.

8:42 PM [MAS] dogwood Yes, I agree with your D. That was a very good alternative that she came up with...Much less uncomfortable.

8:42 PM [plumcrazy] Lil2spunki--Jim told me to not be pushy, ask to many questions and not react to everything H says. basically gave H space. Jim can recommend lots of good books etc. If you have any questions always come and talk to JIM on Monday nights

8:42 PM [dogwood] mariposa-- that is an interesting observation -- your first sentence

8:43 PM [doveseyes] bluesky41 thanks..but I don't know how many times I think about the scene from the movie where the ship is capsized..water is filling up..aughhhh

8:43 PM [calla] hepsy - I do think he feels guilty. He avoids them like the plague, although did come for a family gathering for a bit a couple of weeks ago for the first time in almost 2 years. I hope your H goes with you.

8:43 PM [Bluesky] Lil2Spunki be careful with St. Johns wort, it can do quite the opposite of its intention to some.

8:44 PM [Bluesky] plumcrazy did you scare BD off?

8:44 PM [Lil2Spunki] plumcrazy - I do have the Men in Midlife coming next week. I also order When a Mate Wants Out and Surviving your Husbands Midlife Crisis. I would like to read Dobson’s Tough Love and the Love and Respect by Emerson... I think.

8:44 PM [plumcrazy] BLUESKY--- that’s what I was just wondering myself

8:44 PM [doveseyes] 42jim..I guess I have so much flesh left to kill...or the rewards in heaven awaiting me are going to be incredible..or god knew you needed a ministry...ha ha

8:46 PM [Jim] doveseyes at :44, let me assure you that you're not a project. You are deeply loved by God and we are so grateful for all that you do for so many people.

8:45 PM [hepsy] doveseyes - yes.. I am still intact! lol! Seriously, I was in a terrible pit - I didn't think I would ever make it out..but here I am..I am in a much better place.. a lot of hard work..God is good!

8:45 PM [MAS] Bluesky You're the first person I know who's ever said that about St. John's Wort. Everyone seems to highly recommend it, but it didn't work for me at all.

8:45 PM [Bluesky] doveseyes all I know is I had a hysterectomy, and my h left 6 weeks to the day. He said he would stay while I recoup. And of course both kids are gone now too.

8:45 PM [Lil2Spunki] Jim - Oh... good idea. Let's just hope he will actually talk to me when he returns. I think that the area of work is still a topic that can easily be carried on.

8:45 PM [plumcrazy] LIL2spunki--Love and Respect I highly recommend Reading that right now. realize I can improve on the respect thing

8:45 PM [doveseyes] hepsy44 is your h home?

8:45 PM [Bluesky] Lil2Spunki skip the tough love for now.

8:46 PM [Bluesky] MAS it sent me into a tailspin, very scary

8:46 PM [doveseyes] blue44..wow..wow..

8:46 PM [plumcrazy] Hey Musthope --Good to see you

8:46 PM [Lil2Spunki] Bluesky - yes I know that. I have the gel capsule form that starts once a day and then moves to twice a day. I tried them for myself. Thought that they gave me an upset stomach. Also, thanks for the heads up on the tough love book. Too aggressive for this point?

8:46 PM [Jim] This is Lisa, MLD office manager. If you feel you didn’t get enough time with Jim in the room today, or have a private question you don’t wish to discuss here, please consider scheduling a 1-on-1 phone counseling session with Jim. Call/email us at 714-768-1777 or This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. to set up a session. I’ll go over the suggested donation and provide you with ways to make the most of your time during the private call. I’ll need a list of dates/times that work for you to compare to Jim’s schedule and let you know the best one. When it’s time for the session, Jim calls you on the phone number of your choice. Remember, Jim always offers his live counseling in the chat room without cost. If you wish to donate to our ministry to support the Website/Chat Room upkeep, please do so at www.Midlife.com. Thank you.

8:46 PM [doveseyes] jim44..aughhhh thanks..I was just kidding..I am so thankful for your ministry..I am so amazed by it

8:47 PM [Jim] doveseyes at :46, I'm very serious when I say we all appreciate you very much.

8:47 PM [hepsy] calla - I am sure my h does too. He probably thinks I have bashed him to my mom - which is probably true -I have talked to her probably more than I should have about this.. because if he does come out of this and we are restored it might be harder for her to forget what he has done..

8:47 PM [MAS] Bluesky Yes, me too.

8:48 PM [calla] hepsy - I probably told my parents too much initially but don't say much anymore. His parents have no idea.

8:48 PM [mariposa] Jim: Every time I share with my H the things I have learned from you he says, "That man has it all figured out". Do you do phone counseling with the H's too?

8:49 PM [Jim] Mariposa at :48 I think your husband may be mocking you a little bit when he says that "I have it all figured out", but I do have separate phone sessions with both husbands and wives.

8:48 PM [doveseyes] 47jim..thank you..the retreat was such a great release time for me..like I said..I spent the last year lock in my house crying and praying..and crying..so again thanks. The one thing from the retreat that I keep thinking about is bill's goal to get more men in chat rooms..I think that is awesome..has chat mainly been made up of women?

8:51 PM [Jim] doveseyes at :48, Jan and I continue to pray for you. Jan and I both feel that Bill and Pam have some great insights to help us.

8:48 PM [Lil2Spunki] Jim - thank you for your time tonight. Some of the answers you gave me are a great help. I will continue to just pray myself through all of this.

8:49 PM [Bluesky] MAS have you thought about mentioning the job offer as casual convo at TG at all?

8:49 PM [doveseyes] Jim..

8:50 PM [hepsy] calla - well, if I could change anything I would not have spoken to my h's family about this.. it has made things very uncomfortable between us and I think they feel I am responsible for his unhappiness.. My sil even said as much so it is probably better his family doesn't know - at least from you.

8:50 PM [lalachrissie] calla I was thinking about ways for your son to express himself and I remembered that my therapist told me about software that will type out what you say, he suggested it for my d that doesn't like to write

8:50 PM [calla] Hepsy - we went to see them earlier this summer (his dad was very ill) and they had NO CLUE. They haven't been much involved in our lives. Ever.

8:50 PM [plumcrazy] JIM--I finally found that section in the book I was attributing to you, It was something Pam wrote and I wasn’t remembering exactly what it said. I sent a email to you at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. Did you get it?

8:52 PM [Jim] plumcrazy at :50, This is Lisa, yes we got it, and I just haven't had a chance to share it with Jim yet. Jim will answer it soon.

8:50 PM [MAS] Lisa: Will you be posting pictures from the retreat at some point...When you get the chance and have some "spare" time?

8:51 PM [doveseyes] lala50 what is the software called?

8:51 PM [calla] lalachrissie - that sounds like a good tool!

8:51 PM [mariposa] Jim: I really don't believe he is mocking me at all. He likes what he hears when I tell him things from your book and our chat sessions. He is being sincere.

8:53 PM [Jim] mariposa at :51, it would be great fun talking to your husband. Let's see if we can work out a comfortable time for both of us.

8:52 PM [lalachrissie] doveseyes let me look through my email and see if I can find it, he suggested it for my phone too, there was an iphone app

8:52 PM [Bluesky] MAS boy did you get outside today? It sure turned cold today. It was so deceiving with the sunshine.

8:52 PM [Lil2Spunki] plumcrazy - Can I ask if you still feel very alone in your own home?

8:53 PM [MAS] Bluesky @49: No, I'm not going to mention the job. It's way to early to bring it up.

8:53 PM [Jim] Mas - this is Lisa. I hope to get the photos and retreat memories up this week.

8:53 PM [plumcrazy] Lil2spunki--There are definitely times when I feel that way. But I am more hopeful after the last 2weeks praises

8:53 PM [mariposa] Jim: I will suggest it. thank you.

8:54 PM [MAS] Bluesky I was out in the backyard for a few minutes. Yes, it's getting cold out there!

8:54 PM [Lil2Spunki] plumcrazy - Do you feel that you are on the upswing of something better? How long has this whole process been for you?

8:54 PM [hepsy] calla - when your h goes to the basement for the night do you say "good night" or hug and give a kiss?

8:54 PM [MAS] Thanks Lisa!

8:54 PM [doveseyes] 54mas..cold..like our hotel room?

8:55 PM [lalachrissie] doveseyes Dragon Dictation

8:55 PM [Jim] ALL: the chat room will be closing in about 5 minutes. Jim will be able to take all questions through 7 pm PST.

8:55 PM [MAS] doveseyes Yes! Even colder!

8:55 PM [doveseyes] 54lala thanks

8:55 PM [Bluesky] swan, is there a schedule to follow for facilitating on TG?

8:55 PM [mariposa] hepsy: I just wanted to say hi. Do you have special TG plans? Are you kids coming home?

8:55 PM [doveseyes] 55mas..awesome..you might be preparing to live in Alaska

8:55 PM [Jim] Holidays are tough for anyone whose marriage is unhappy - since everyone else seems to be happy. There are more instances of depression during the holidays than any other time of the year. Be proactive & plan rather than allow yourself to be overwhelmed with depression & loneliness. Jim has several suggestions: 1) Make sure you're with healthy/affirming people. 2) Plan some special event/activity that will be nourishing to you. 3) Connect with your group of prayer supporters, ask them for extra prayer. 4) Spend extra time with God, the Bible, listening to praise music. 5) Exercise/walk with some close friends. 6) Look for opportunities to help in your community/church such as taking food to people in need, serving meals at the Salvation Army, etc. - deliberately get outside of your needs to see other's needs and how you can help them. These suggestions help change your brain chemistry & enable you to cope through holidays.

8:55 PM [calla] hepsy - almost always a goodnight, very rarely a hug, and never a kiss. You?

8:56 PM [MAS] doveseyes How was Hollywood? Did you have a safe trip back home?

8:56 PM [swan] Bluesky - Are we having a special chat for that day? If so, I can send out a request for volunteers.

8:56 PM [hepsy] calla - the reason I ask, is that before I go to bed I usually tell my h goodnight and give him a quick kiss (nothing romantic) and then leave.. same old routine every night..but at least it is some sort connection... have you thought of trying?

8:56 PM [Lil2Spunki] Calla & Hepsy - I totally was wondering that same thing about the goodnight. H will be returning home on TG. I don't even know how to behave at this point.

8:56 PM [doveseyes] 55jim..great advice..will do

8:56 PM [Bluesky] swan it was mentioned earlier in chat.

8:57 PM [swan] Bluesky - I'll have to look again, was it mentioned by Lisa/Jim or a member?

8:57 PM [doveseyes] 56mas..Hollywood was fun..fun to see things you only saw in movies.

8:57 PM [Bluesky] swan Jim

8:57 PM [plumcrazy] Lil2spunki--I hope I am on the upswing. I think I am learning things about myself and putting what I learn to use and it is helping the situation in my home. I was never clingy or watchful of my H before this MLC hit. I did a tailspin into desperation and clinginess. H mentioned it at the start of this. H repeated a line from a TV show. Desperate and clingy doesn’t make someone love you" or something like that

8:57 PM [MAS] doveseyes Actually--Canada!

8:57 PM [Jim] TO EVERYONE IN THE ROOM, if you are on Facebook, you might connect with Jan - she is an avid Facebook person.

8:57 PM [doveseyes] 57mas..ha ha really?

8:58 PM [doveseyes] 57jim..ok..will look her up

8:58 PM [Jim] Let the Lord carry you through. Rely completely on Him. Trust completely in Him. "Sometimes it takes a painful situation to make us change our ways." Proverbs 20:30

8:58 PM [swan] Bluesky - ok, I'll see what I can do about getting a schedule done, I will try to be here, I should be able to get on line up at my sisters again.

8:58 PM [dogwood] hepsy-- my H does not respond to my verbal "good night" , he will freak out if I touch him. I probably should continue to say "good night" to him even with no acknowledgement from him

8:58 PM [calla] hepsy and lil2 - I am afraid of rejection. When I do give him a hug (and actually I have occasionally given him a kiss on the forehead) he doesn't push me away or reject me (anymore) but he doesn't reciprocate. He is the one who gives me a hug first usually though.

8:58 PM [plumcrazy] JIM Was that last quote for ME?

8:58 PM [Lil2Spunki] plumcrazy - I wouldn't consider myself desperate or clingy either. More so just not wanting to be stuck with the 5 kids all the time. Which is what he takes as controlling.

8:58 PM [Bluesky] swan I wasn't saying you had to be here, I was just asking about it.

8:58 PM [hepsy] Lil2Spunki - it is awkward for sure.. I remember when I tried to initiate sex (2 years ago!) my h refused.. terrible rejection... I felt horrible.. so I haven't tried again. You will have to experiment to see what he will or will not accept.

8:59 PM [Jim] Thanks everyone for being in the chat room today. If you got lost during the chat process, check back later to find the edited chat dialogue posted in the archives, there you can read it at your own pace. It's been fun talking with you today. We, at Midlife Dimensions, will remember you and your marriages in prayer throughout the week. Warmly in Christ, Jim. James 4:8, Draw near to God and He will draw near to you.

8:59 PM [doveseyes] Jim..blessing to you and Jan. I am truly thankful for your ministry and the giving, nurturing nature behind it. I couldn't have made it through this past year without your website, books, and chat room.

8:59 PM [MAS] doveseyes I'm not kidding! A good friend of mine might be relocating there and he wants me to work with him. I did some research and discovered that it's the coldest country in the world, based on national averages of temperature.

8:59 PM [plumcrazy] GOODNITE JIM----Take care an give JAN our love

8:59 PM [lalachrissie] goodnight everyone

9:00 PM [hepsy] dogwood - I would continue to reach out.. without expectations.. Just saying goodnight is pretty safe..

9:00 PM [Lil2Spunki] hepsy - I am scared to death of initiating anything. He just told me he did not feel anything for me as of last Thursday. He is so strange right now. Is there anyway to contact you outside of chat?

9:00 PM [doveseyes] 59mas..so god was using your rooming with a girl from the south to prepare you for Canada? wow..when did this opportunity open up?

9:00 PM [dogwood] hepsy-- thanks, will do

9:00 PM [swan] Bluesky - I know, just saying I will try to make it for some of it

9:00 PM [Bluesky] MAS well you had better put some meat on those bones then

9:01 PM [doveseyes] mas..what would you be doing?

9:01 PM [plumcrazy] LISA--- Have you caught up on our rest yet?

9:01 PM [MAS] doveseyes Yes, can you believe it?    It just came up this week.

9:02 PM [doveseyes] 01mas..are you excited about it

9:02 PM [lisak] Dear Lord, I pray that you would be with everyone that was in Chat Room tonight, and with anyone who reads this Chat session in the archives. Bless them with Your true peace and Amazing Grace, especially over holiday times. Comfort them, and guide them on a path that would keep them happily and productively busy, serving You and blessing others. In Jesus' Name, Amen.

9:03 PM [plumcrazy] AMEN

9:03 PM [Lil2Spunki] Amen

9:03 PM [hepsy] Lil2spunki - you can send an email to Lisa and ask her if you can have my email address. I can understand your fear..

9:03 PM [doveseyes] 02amen as well

9:03 PM [MAS] doveseyes@01: I have no idea. Haven't been able to talk that much yet. Will need to find out more.

9:03 PM [MAS] Amen

9:03 PM [Lil2Spunki] hepsy - I will do that and I would love to talk with you further... if you don't mind.

9:03 PM [doveseyes] 03 that might be good to be in a new location...change of scenery

9:04 PM [plumcrazy] ALL---Remember CRICKET says "Saying AMEN is like hitting enter!"

9:04 PM [MAS] doveseyes But the COLD!!

9:04 PM [hepsy] all I am going to bed. I am so tired! I pray that you all rest well. I am thankful for all of the wisdom and encouragement I get from our chat. God bless you all!

9:04 PM [swan] Lisa/hepsy and Lil2 - I will take care of the email exchange a little later tonight

9:04 PM [plumcrazy] Nite Hepsy Take care

9:05 PM [doveseyes] 04..mas..llbean will help you..plus putting on weight..wouldn't it be fun when your h hears...she is moving where? Doing what?

9:05 PM [lisak] Hi Plum, :01, I'm working on it. I've still have events going on that I was in charge of at my church. But I finally got to sleep in Saturday, till 1 pm!!! We flew to Oregon today on "vacation" - but I'm hoping to actually get a lot of work caught up for Midlife.

9:05 PM [MAS] Bluesky: Speaking of meat, that's what I'm going to do right now...eat!

9:05 PM [hepsy] Lil2Spunki - I do not mind at all. take care and try not to worry - remember God is in control!

9:05 PM [Lil2Spunki] hepsy - Goodnight. Thank you for your support.

9:05 PM [Bluesky] plumcrazy Huh?

9:05 PM [doveseyes] 05lisa..how fun..family in Oregon?

9:06 PM [dogwood] All-- Thanks to all. Hope no surprises or turmoil during the holiday

9:06 PM [MAS] doveseyes Oh, LL Bean! Had to think about that one! But how will that help with the cold?

9:06 PM [plumcrazy] Bluesky--what?

9:06 PM [lisak] doveseyes at :05, yes - my sister's family. My little niece is 3.5 and so much fun.

9:06 PM [Bluesky] plumcrazy 04

9:07 PM [plumcrazy] BLUE--Do you think I REALLY upset BoscosDad? I hope not

9:07 PM [doveseyes] 06lisa..good..I know..I help with my friend’s 3 year old boy..that is such a fun age..they can be so creative and silly

9:07 PM [Bluesky] plumcrazy I don't think so, but it was weird.

9:07 PM [doveseyes] mas..insulated underwear, down jackets, hats, gloves..etc..u will not get cold

9:08 PM [swan] All it is past closing time, please keep each other in prayer and join us again on Wednesday evening

9:08 PM [lisak] All: I'm going to head off and let swan close this evening. I can hear that they gave my niece the "Belle" dress that we brought her, and I'm missing all the excitement.

9:08 PM [plumcrazy] Blue---I was just TEASING him. Guess I will send him an email and check on him Think that is a good idea?

9:08 PM [doveseyes] good night all...blessings and I will be praying...

9:08 PM [Bluesky] swan get some rest.

9:08 PM [Lil2Spunki] Anyone - I keep hearing about these retreats. Is it a fellowship or a day of learning? Am I am missing out on something?

9:08 PM [mariposa] all: My H is coming over here for TG dinner with all of our kids and grandson and his mother and my sister and her family. Pray that his eyes will be opened to what he is missing please.

9:08 PM [Lil2Spunki] lisak - Goodnight. Thank you!

9:09 PM [Bluesky] plumcrazy I wouldn't worry about it. He called Brin dumb last night out of jest and nothing was said.

9:09 PM [lisak] Good night all.

9:09 PM [MAS] Goodnight Lisa.

9:09 PM [swan] Bluesky - I will, I try to remember to take care of myself, don't want to get sick again

9:09 PM [plumcrazy] LIL2Spunki--Retreat happens once a yr. Last from Fri night to Sun afternoon

9:09 PM [Bluesky] all, TTFN

9:09 PM [plumcrazy] Bye Blue Take care

9:09 PM [swan] Goodnight all

9:10 PM [Lil2Spunki] plumcrazy - have you all met each other for the most part then? Where do the retreats happen at?

9:10 PM [MAS] Lil2Spunki We just held a retreat a few weeks ago. It was in California.

8:07 PM [Bluesky] Hi Jim, I feel like I have fallen off the face of the earth to my in-laws, no invite for TG, no compassion or anything since h announced he wanted a div. Your thoughts.

8:15 PM [Jim] Bluesky @:07, intellectually you understand what is happening, in that your in-laws are siding against you, nevertheless - try to understand that they are siding with their own flesh and blood, try to plan some events that will be fun for you with some other supportive friends.

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