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November 15, 2010 / with Jim Conway

8:25 PM [doveseyes] Jim..do u recommend no contact with h..but let him contact me? he has no contact at all with me

8:27 PM Jim: doveseyes at :25, I encourage you not to make unnecessary contact with your husband, but to continue working on your own growth.

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You have entered CR#2 Monday Chat with Jim Nov 15, 2010 @ 6pm PST.

8:01 PM [lisak] Hi Chat Room Guests. I’m Lisa, the Office Manager for Midlife Dimensions. I enjoy serving the Lord through our Chat Room Ministry which has helped so many people through the tough times of midlife crisis. Remember, Jim always offers his live counseling in the chat room without cost. If you wish to make a tax-deductible donation to our ministry to support the Website/Chat Room upkeep, please do so at www.Midlife.com. Thank you. Jim will be online with us momentarily, he will read your questions and dictate his replies to me so I can type them for you to read. Jim has time for all questions that are posted before the end of the hour. Thanks for understanding.

8:05 PM Jim: Hi All. Jan and I had a great time with all of you at the chat room retreat. We were touched by your kindness and love shown to us - and especially for your generous financial gift. Jan and I continue to pray for all of you and we encourage you to keep praying for us during these change days ahead.

8:08 PM [lalachrissie] hi!

8:09 PM [hepsy] hi lalachrissie

8:09 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy hi.

8:09 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie - how are you?

8:09 PM [hepsy] dogwood - hi there. how are you?

8:09 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy the same. sad. how about you?

8:10 PM [plumcrazy] JIM---Hello How are you and Jan recovering from the retreat?

8:10 PM [plumcrazy] Hello

8:10 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie - I am so sorry... I feel your pain...

8:10 PM [doveseyes] hello Jim..great retreat. But as I was warned..satan hit hard since I have been home. What advice do you have for kids who get tore up when their absent dad pops in and then leaves again?

8:13 PM Jim: doveseyes at :10, tell me how old your children are??

8:11 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie - my h is out of town.. I have some relief..

8:11 PM [dogwood] Jim, H’s case may not a MLC? Of LIC? Since he has been off and on unfaithful for many years and only that I have just found out recently. He was surprised that I had no clue for so long. And tried to tell me that he can’t make change, and there is no hope in our marriage.

8:17 PM Jim: dogwood at :11, sometimes older guys who have lived with a secret lifestyle for a long time feel hopelessly trapped - but I have found that men who get involved with addiction recovery groups can make very significant changes at any age.

8:12 PM [Bluesky] dogwood what is LIC?

8:12 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy is he working out of town? will he be gone long?

8:12 PM [doveseyes] Jim...cool story. On the way back home, ..on my anniversary..I sat with a man who was in a full blown mlc and got to encourage him to go back home to his wife. I thought I had a set up from God to sow a seed ...

8:17 PM Jim: doveseyes at :12, yeaaa for you, we're proud of you using your insights to make a difference in another marriage.

8:12 PM [dogwood] Bluesky--sorry, late life crisis, that is what I meant

8:12 PM [doveseyes] Lisa..great retreat..did you get rested up?

8:13 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie - he left Sunday a.m. on a 3 day business trip. He called around 9 last night - I could tell he had been drinking.. It is nice not to have to walk on eggshells.

8:13 PM [doveseyes] we will...Moses

8:13 PM [Bluesky] doveseyes that is awesome, how did you know he was in MLC?

8:13 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy he still lives with you? I wish my H were here still.

8:13 PM [plumcrazy] doveseyes- I have been thinking about you. miss you

8:14 PM [doveseyes] blue..he just started opening up...and was telling me crazy personal things...it was a god thing.

8:14 PM [doveseyes] Jim..22 boy..17 boy..15 girl

8:19 PM Jim: doveseyes at :14, your children are old enough to learn about midlife crisis and to learn how to work with their father. I have a chapter in the 'Men In Midlife Crisis' which coaches children about connecting with their father.

8:14 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie - yes, he is home - technically... he sleeps on the couch and takes all his showers at the gym. I feel divorced even though he comes home every night.

8:15 PM [Bluesky] doveseyes amazing!

8:16 PM [sbky] hello

8:16 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie - I know you wish your h was home... But it is also hard when they are home physically, but not emotionally. I feel hated in my own home.

8:16 PM [plumcrazy] Doveseyes--What did you tell him?

8:16 PM [doveseyes] Jim...as you are a visionary..there is such a need in the late lifers..I have watched my own mom..implode. Definitely be praying..it will take off like a wildfire..

8:19 PM Jim: doveseyes at :16, thanks for your prayer support, we are going to need it.

8:16 PM [Bluesky] doveseyes did the man believe what you were saying?

8:16 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy the first time my h left for 6 days he took all of his showers here and even put his dirty laundry in my hamper. now he has his own place and only has a few things with him

8:16 PM [dogwood] Jim. H is treating me with no respect at all. not even respond to my greetings! I have been kind and nice to him, but that only make him more nervous, thinking I am manipulating him. He is nervous about me contacting counselor and our group with prayers and trusting God. He thinks my approach is not to SOLVE the issue but to avoid the problem. He wants to face the issue and resolve it by separation. He still feels very trapped and can’t breathe in the same house although sleeping in a separate room and no communication going on with me.

8:21 PM Jim: dogwood at :16, I think your husband is feeling that the situation is hopeless for any change to ever happen. Let me ask you how you are doing in the three areas that midlife men complain about. 1. Midlife Men complain that their wives are naggy, controlling, and often boss them around like children (sometimes men do act like children). 2. Midlife Men complain that their wives are overweight, out of shape, and do not care about physical appearance. Men are very visual, & when their wife looks good to them, that translates that she is interested in sex. A high priority in a man’s life is regular, exciting sex for which he doesn’t have to beg. 3. Midlife Men complain that their wives have not had a new thought since they got married. They complain that their wives are not growing intellectually or in their careers, which makes them very dependent and clingy -- which is often negative to a midlife man. How are you doing in these three areas? Remember to evaluate yourself through his eyes.

8:17 PM [doveseyes] plum...about mlc..about the website..and I brutally told him to go back with his wife..it wasn't too late.

8:18 PM [Bluesky] doveseyes what did he says to going back to his wife?

8:18 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie - did you say once that your h has no furniture or was that someone else?

8:18 PM [plumcrazy] Doveseyes--What was the man’s reaction to what you said?

8:18 PM [doveseyes] Jim..thx..well I wanted to sow the seed...since my own h didn't even remember our anniversary

8:19 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy no furniture, he told D9 that he has been sleeping on an air mattress but recently ordered a mattress that hadn't arrived yet

8:19 PM [doveseyes] open receptive..he was miserable..he had a young girlfriend..and he said he wasn't happy..missed his wife..memories, etc

8:19 PM [dogwood] Jim--another question--While I refuse to separate with him, he shows very uneasy, tense and frustrated, seems that he did not get what he wants, and it drives him deeper into depression. Also, seems that he resents me for not agreeing to a separation. Should I continue to refuse to separate if he raises the issue again?

8:22 PM Jim: dogwood at :19, continue suggesting to him that if he wants a legal separation - he will have to contact a lawyer for that process.

8:19 PM [plumcrazy] Doveseyes--you did the same thing I did last yr. I came to retreat as an anniv. present to myself and flew home on my anniv\

8:20 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy air mattress could be why his back was very messed up a few weeks ago. he blamed it on walking at the zoo w/D9

8:20 PM [doveseyes] Jim..ok..will read..the oldest is open but the other 2 don't want to talk about it..

8:20 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie - so is the main form of communication between you and h just texting?

8:20 PM [plumcrazy] Hey Faithful ---How are you doing?

8:21 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy he either texts me or emails. he has not phoned our home in almost 2 months

8:21 PM [plumcrazy] JIM--Did you get my email I sent the other nite? I wasn’t sure I sent it to the right email address

8:23 PM Jim: plumcrazy at :21, your email went to our California office and I have not had a chance to see it yet.

8:21 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie - isn't it just crazy what these men will do? I mean my h is sleeping on the couch, Calla's h is sleeping in the basement and yours on an air mattress. It is almost comical.

8:21 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy does your h have any communication w/you?

8:21 PM [faithful] plum I am doing good. Are you doing better?

8:22 PM [doveseyes] Jim...when you are dealing with a sex addict..my h doesn't want help..

8:24 PM Jim: doveseyes at :22, most addicts don't want help until the pressure on them becomes very intense, from such things as: work failure, family rejection, physical health, etc.

8:22 PM [faithful] doveseyes hey how are you? I know what you mean my d13 has so much anger inside and we finally decided she needs counseling.

8:22 PM [plumcrazy] Faithful--My knee is MUCH better. PTL as soon as Dr. removed excess fluid from my knee I could walk without crutches and pain was bearable

8:23 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie - he doesn't initiate. Although he does call me every day before he leaves work to say he is on the way home - he commutes an hour away. Depending on how much he has been drinking - he ignores me..

8:23 PM [faithful] Plum no remember you were having a hard time with h on Sat I believe

8:23 PM [hepsy] Calla!!!!

8:23 PM [doveseyes] faithful 22..ok...bad week..actually we should petition for a retreat week...weekend is too short..how r u

8:23 PM [calla] hi hepsy:)

8:24 PM [hepsy] Calla - I was just talking about you to Lalachrissie - how are you doing? I've missed you!

8:24 PM [swan] Jim - Question, with all that is going on with my mother I am feeling a little anger towards my husband. I was there for him when he lost his parents. When he tried to break it off with the first other woman she told him that she was all alone and needed him to be there for her because her mother was dying (I don't know if that was the truth or not). He told me that once he helped her through her mother’s death, he would end it, he didn't. But now I am suddenly feeling anger because now that my mother is dying, he is gone. I should have to go through this alone. So, are these feeling normal and will they pass?

8:26 PM Jim: swan at :24, let me give you a little perspective, remember that his history has not been one of understanding or caring, so I don't think that it even crossed his mind that he ought to be a support to you. I know that absolutely sucks, but it is probably sad reality.

8:24 PM [faithful] doveseyes @23 I know what you mean It was a horrible week but I am finally climbing out of depression. My d13 and I got into it again and she even started screaming at her aunt yesterday over everything. She realizes she is full of anger and it just comes out and she starts screaming for anything.

8:25 PM [doveseyes] Jim..do u recommend no contact with h..but let him contact me? he has no contact at all with me

8:27 PM Jim: doveseyes at :25, I encourage you not to make unnecessary contact with your husband, but to continue working on your own growth.

8:25 PM [plumcrazy] Faithful--I think it was more the way I approached it I didn’t realize how it might have sounded to H . I have gotten into bad habit of talking to him like he does me. But HE doesn’t like it. You think he would understand how I feel when he does it to me then wouldn’t you?

8:25 PM [faithful] Jim h just drop the boys off and we did small talk. The boys got a pin from boys scout to give to someone who helps them the most. I taught h was going to just handed out to me but no he said I deserve it and pin it on my shirt. I could see he was shaking.

8:28 PM Jim: faithful at :25, this is a very positive action on his part, and very difficult for him to do - I’m glad he did it.

8:25 PM [sbky] swan I had been with my h through many deaths in his family. my family had only lost my grandmother.. but had two since he left and it makes me mad he wasn’t there

8:25 PM [doveseyes] Jim..ok..well, has family rejection..and it hasn't stopped him..

8:29 PM Jim: doveseyes at :25, it may take more financial pressure to cause him to consider being helped.

8:26 PM [calla] hepsy - talking about me? My ears must have been burning then.:) Been very busy. How are you?

8:26 PM [faithful] plum I know what you mean. I can imagine how hard it must be to bite your tongue.

8:26 PM [doveseyes] faithful..mine to...she has been screaming at me all weekend..she was with her dad for lunch and then..bammm..I am so sorry..if you are life me..you can't take it emotionally..

8:27 PM [hepsy] calla - doing the same.. my h is out of town - so I have a little respite. Your h still in the basement? I was telling lalachrissie that it was almost comical - my h on the couch, her h on an air mattress and yours in the basement.

8:27 PM [plumcrazy] Faithful--Cricket pointed out that how I said it might have made H feel I didn’t want his family here for Thanksgiving

8:28 PM [faithful] doveseyes It hurts and she says some mean things but I think we are breaking thru with her becoming aware of her own feelings and hopefully counseling will help because she drives me crazy.

8:28 PM [dogwood] Jim: He does not want to spend money on lawyers, wants to settle between us. I keep telling him that I do not want to separate but to restore marriage. He gets panic to know that I am trying to restore marriage, and that makes him nervous since he does not believe that is possible. He said to me "do you need God to come down to tell you that your marriage is over?"

8:30 PM Jim: dogwood at :28, many husbands want to try and solve the marriage problem as inexpensively as possible. I think his language is really saying that you have not changed enough and I don't believe that you ever will.

8:28 PM [calla] hepsy - it is kind of crazy isn't it? Yes, he is still in the dungeon sleeping on a couch after spending almost a YEAR on the floor!!

8:28 PM [swan] Jim - I realize that, I guess I am over thinking things. Before MLC, he really was a great supporter with so much, my grandparent’s deaths, other stuff. There is no way he would support me now, the other woman would really have a fit. But he did, pay for our daughter to fly to Missouri to see her grandmother, so I guess there is some compassion in him.

8:32 PM Jim: swan at :28, compassion for other people, does not necessarily commit him to reconnect with you and the marriage, but showing compassion to you may indicate that he is willing to reconnect in the marriage.

8:29 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy it's even more comical to me that I'm in the beach house with full ocean view and his empty house is in a bad neighborhood near the busiest freeway in the state.

8:29 PM [hepsy] calla - what have you been doing ? you said you've been busy..

8:29 PM [doveseyes] Jim...I can do...I am reading Jan's book and loving it

8:29 PM [plumcrazy] Faithful--We call those things like what your H did pinning the pin to your shirt and saying that GOD WINKS. PTL!!! That was so awesome

8:30 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie -lol . that is totally insane - must be a picture of how they feel about themselves - totally in the pits!!

8:30 PM [doveseyes] Jim: it will b interesting to see...but I am getting pressure from everyone to divorce..especially since H is threatening to cut my money aughh

8:33 PM Jim: doveseyes at :30, it may be that he will need to be pressured by losing all of his money if it should come to a divorce.

8:30 PM [faithful] lalachrissie @28 I know what you mean because my h is in a one bedroom apartment with all used furniture and hands me down. He was always so prideful and wanted the best. Now he gets junk.

8:31 PM [lalachrissie] faithful he did but himself a very nice car though.

8:31 PM [calla] hepsy - just life is keeping me busy, I guess. Still pretty much a single parent. Busy with work, trying to find a new job, trying to get some projects done that have been put on the back burner etc.

8:31 PM [faithful] plum I just do not want to get my hopes up but I can say my heart did start beating a little faster. You think after all this years it won't affect you that much.

8:31 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie/faithful/calla - I am sorry but I am totally laughing.. it is just crazy! Really, when you think about it. Wish our h's could see that.

8:32 PM [doveseyes] faithful 28..thats good..hope my d can get at that stage

8:32 PM [plumcrazy] JIM--I am finding Pam to be an awesome writer. Such a smart lady. I really enjoyed Fabulous after 40 and The 10 best decisions a couple can make.

8:34 PM Jim: plumcrazy at :32, Pam Farrel is an amazing writer, and both Bill and Pam Farrel are just awesome people.

8:32 PM [sbky] all I feel I have changed the things I needed to change and working on small stuff now I got to sit back and see if he notices

8:32 PM [faithful] lalachrissie mine bought himself a new car but got reposes recently and now he bought a car for $300.

8:32 PM [calla] hepsy - maybe someday they will. One would hope.

8:32 PM [hepsy] calla - well, it is good that you are busy.. probably keeps your mind of your situation. How is h being?

8:32 PM [plumcrazy] JIM - What is your opinion of the book Holding on to heaven while your husband goes thru H"LL?

8:33 PM [hepsy] calla - I mean mind off

8:33 PM [lalachrissie] faithful that's sad. my h would never let his finances get to that. his job is his life right now and he makes lots of money

8:33 PM [doveseyes] plum..I read that book and just thought it was ok..

8:34 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie - what are you doing to try to keep your mind off your situation?

8:34 PM [doveseyes] Jim..I have wondered that...

8:34 PM [plumcrazy] JIM--I have been try to find in my reading where you talked about coming to the decision if it is in your best interest to stay in a relationship Did I read it in one of Pam’s book or was that in retreat?

8:36 PM Jim: plumcrazy at :34, I’m not sure where this was said - but what is your question regarding that?

8:35 PM [doveseyes] Jim..when does divorce become an option

8:37 PM Jim: doveseyes at :35, I feel that divorce is the last resort and I strongly encourage people to learn all they can about their mate's needs and do all they can to rescue the marriage and the mate.

8:35 PM [faithful] doveseyes I hope she will too. Is so hard when all that anger comes out. Mine cry this weekend and told me she wanted her dad. I told her she could have her dad, he wanted to see her. She does not want that dad and she is afraid he will stop seeing them again. She is afraid of rejection again.

8:35 PM [calla] hepsy - it does, but unfortunately it is ever present. H has been very withdrawn and kind of moody or in a funk lately, though he doesn't take it out on me and the kids at this point in the game. Well, anymore than moping around affects us. Amazingly, I had a get together with my extended family at our house last week and H SHOWED UP after avoiding them like the plague for a year and a half or more. It was a good thing. Now praying he decides to celebrate Thanksgiving with us this year.

8:35 PM [sbky] faithful my kids miss their dad too. even though he is around he isn’t the dad they want

8:35 PM [calla] hepsy - any change in your H?

8:35 PM [plumcrazy] JIM---God blessed her with an awesome talent presented in a way that it lifts you up when you read it

8:35 PM [hepsy] calla - that is good.. did your h not participate in the holidays last year?

8:36 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy I don't have a whole lot to do to keep my mind off of this. I work while my girls are at school, but it's only a few hours a day. I'm with my girls most of the time, especially since D12 has multiple doctor appointments each week. hard to do much else

8:36 PM [doveseyes] faithful..I know exactly what you mean. Mine kids reach out for their "dad"..and he isn't there..it breaks my heart.

8:36 PM [calla] hepsy - not with the extended family - last time was Christmas 2008. He has celebrated things with just our little family.

8:36 PM [swan] Jim - considering there is still no contact at all with my husband and myself, he continues to allow the other woman to issue the do not even mention swan's name rule, I don't believe he is anywhere near even thinking about reconnecting with me. Besides with how I am feeling about him right now, I would have to guess I am not ready for any reconnection either. I just worry about the anger, I haven't felt any anger in a few years now and I don't like the resurface of these type of emotions.

8:38 PM Jim: swan at :36, right now, you have too much on your plate to worry about your husband. Release him to God and let God, and let God walk you through this dying process with your mother.

8:37 PM [faithful] doveseyes my h was not there for the kids for almost 11 months, He was not there for them last Christmas or their birthdays. Not till recently he started seeing them ageing. At least the boys.

8:37 PM [lalachrissie] sbky faithful my kids too. they don't even want to see the dad they have right now. they don't like him

8:37 PM [hepsy] calla - no change.. he continues to drink and isolate. This weekend my kids were home. My d wanted my h to grill out - she called him -he was running errands - and he asked her "did your mother ask you to call me and ask this?" Really????

8:38 PM [Bluesky] swan ((((hugs))))

8:38 PM [dogwood] Jim, He said that he has too much pressure from his career and can't handle both marital pressure and career pressure, but he does not have control over his career, so trying to gain control to get rid of his marital struggle by leaving. does that make sense? the change he wants out of me is to agree with his idea of separation. He does not have the energy to work on marriage now. So I told him that he can take his time and not to do anything about it.

8:39 PM Jim: dogwood at :38, Assure him that he does not have to work on the marriage right now. He can use all of his energy on his career.

8:39 PM [doveseyes] Jim..when do u feel like you are at the last resort?

8:41 PM Jim: doveseyes at :39, generally most people underestimate their ability to endure. Most people think they are at a point of a divorce - when really they have just run out of good coaching to help them work on their marriage. Maybe we should talk by phone?

8:39 PM [faithful] lalachrissie and SBKY that is the way they felt but he seems to be more pleasant to be around with. He actually spends times with the boys and does not seem to be on the computer when they are over there. He actually cook a pot-roast for the boys tonight.

8:39 PM Jim: To all: This is Lisa. Some of you may have not had enough personal time with Jim, or you have a very private question that you didn’t want to discuss openly in the chat room. If you'd like to schedule a phone counseling session call us at 714-768-1777.

8:39 PM [plumcrazy] JIM -I was just trying to find it I think I read it in one of Pam’s books that you said it. I was just wondering if you remembered giving that kind of advice. That you told people how they could decide the relationship was not in their best interest and could let it go

8:43 PM Jim: plumcrazy at :39, that phrase is not a common phrase that I would use, because I try to coach people and help them work through the issues in a bad marriage. The phrase you quoted sounds too self centered, when marriage is really all about serving each other.

8:40 PM [calla] hepsy - uggh. I always wonder if my H asks the kids that if they ask him things like if he will come with us somewhere.

8:40 PM [hepsy] calla - it is like he thinks that if it is my idea then he absolutely won't do it. My d was so upset she ended up texting him and saying "forget it". It is hurtful to my kids - I wanted to call him and tell him what I thought, but I held my tongue.

8:40 PM [sbky] faithful and lalachrissie my daughter hurt her foot and the dr said three more weeks of no walking on it. he is trying to get her to walk on it so she can start playing basketball. he seems not to care if it is gonna hurt her. he is so into her sports

8:40 PM [dogwood] Jim-- thank you

8:41 PM [calla] hepsy - maddening isn't it? My H went through a period of time like that too. I hope what your kids might say to him will start getting through.

8:41 PM [doveseyes] Jim..ok..can do..if Jan can pray AT THE end like she did at the retreat...

8:42 PM [swan] Jim - so what are the odds that the surfacing of the anger is an internal trigger to divert me from what I should really be focusing on? A self-defense so I don't have to face what is happening with my mother? I know, stop trying to analyze everything, I think I just worked it out by chatting with you, thanks for the ear.

8:44 PM Jim: swan at :42, I really believe that satan is using this husband conflict to divert you from handling the issues related to your mother.

8:42 PM [doveseyes] Jim..I do believe satan has hit us all hard after such an uplifting weekend..amazing..

8:45 PM Jim: doveseyes at :42, yes I do believe it is a common reality to be attacked by satan whenever we have gone through some period of growth. I also find that I can almost guarantee being attacked every time before I am to speak or minister to people - example of my cough and losing my voice before and during the retreat.

8:43 PM [dogwood] Jim-- I need a good coaching badly. I hope to set up private session with you soon

8:43 PM [lalachrissie] sbky my D was injured in July and is still in Physical therapy and will be for probably another year & my h doesn't even ask me about her. he texts her and asks how she is, but she hasn't spoke to him in 7 weeks so it seems pointless to ask her.

8:43 PM [hepsy] calla - idk - my kids are both angry with him.. especially my son.. I wish he could see what his actions are doing .. but I guess he can't. I am sure you feel the same -

8:43 PM [Bluesky] swan you didn't ask me, but that was my first thought or just a lot all at once.

8:43 PM [wiffe] hi all. Just got off the phone with my FIL. We talked for 40 minutes.

8:44 PM [wiffe] All-H stayed and had dinner with us. Also mentioned something he is thinking about. Not sure where it is coming from.

8:44 PM [swan] Bluesky - Hey jump in anytime, I accept comments rather well.

8:44 PM [Cindy] Hi everyone....

8:45 PM [lalachrissie] Cindy hi

8:45 PM [calla] hepsy - I do feel the same. My kids are young enough to not really be able to express themselves I think. I know they are hurt he doesn't spend more time with them, but at least he is paying some attention to them these days.

8:45 PM [plumcrazy] JIM-I know I am misquoting what I read. Of course it was worded differently That is all I could think of. I will keep looking for it again. I think it was something about when it is to damaging to you then letting go of the person? Does that sound more familiar. Forgive me for the miswording

8:47 PM Jim: plumcrazy at :45, keep looking to see if you can locate that phrase and drop me an email of what you find. please also include the context of the paragraph before and after that phrase.

8:45 PM [Bluesky] swan okay, I think you have a right to be angry that you are dealing with this stuff by yourself.

8:45 PM [lalachrissie] calla how old are your kids?

8:46 PM [hepsy] calla - how old are your kids? I forget.

8:46 PM [swan] Jim - the good news, my mother is home on Hospice care and since being home her blood pressure is back to her normal, and today they reduced her oxygen intake level to 9 liters, they had it as high as 15 just a few days ago. I believe God is providing time for us to reconcile.

8:47 PM Jim: swan at :46, I’m so glad that God is giving you and your mother the opportunity to work through some reconciling issues.

8:46 PM [Bluesky] plumcrazy highlight when you see someone you like in a book.

8:46 PM [doveseyes] Jim..it’s funny..u know that..but the attack can have a great effect

8:48 PM Jim: doveseyes at :46, yes - it is funny - but you should not be laughing - I'm the only one aloud to laugh.

8:47 PM [calla] hepsy and lalachrissie - 9 and 7. What about yours?

8:47 PM [dogwood] Swan-- what a great news! that is wonderful!

8:47 PM [lalachrissie] calla d12 d9

8:47 PM [plumcrazy] Bluesky--I was wishing I had done that Because I thought it would be helpful to some here.

8:48 PM [hepsy] calla - so you are like lalachrissie - hers are 12 and 9 - My kids are much older - 19 and 22. Still, they are affected even though they are adults.

8:48 PM [swan] Bluesky - I agree, however, I am really afraid of the anger, I spent so much of my life angry at so much, it caused me to live in a deep depression and I just don't ever want to go back there.

8:48 PM [doveseyes] plum..I have wondered the same thing..in boundaries..they also address the issue..

8:48 PM [sbky] lalachrissie he just wants her to be able to play . that is all he seems to be living for

8:48 PM [plumcrazy] JIM--Of course I will You know there is a GOOD possibility that I could be attributing something someone else said to you. The MEMORY isn’t what it used to be

8:51 PM Jim: plumcrazy at :48, yes I know what you mean by losing your mind, I live in that world of gray-matter-fog.

8:49 PM [doveseyes] Jim ha ha ha

8:49 PM [faithful] hepsy..lalachrissie and calla my kids are d13, s6, s9 and s27. H said it was better for them if we got a divorce.

8:49 PM [wiffe] all- H shared a thought that has been put into his head. I asked if he wanted to share and he did. He mentioned going to seminary. I just said OK. My thoughts are/were WHAT but if that is God's will/plan then so be it. but he would first have to restore his marriage. Any thoughts on his thought?

8:49 PM [calla] hepsy - I think my son (9) is starting to express his anger yet it comes out at ME. Just my intuition, but he doesn't express anger at his dad. I am trying to figure out how to deal with this. Maybe it is just regular 9yo angst, but he has had some bad moments recently. I think he lashes out at me because he knows I am "safe."

8:49 PM [hepsy] faithful - and where is the logic in that? What did you say to him?

8:49 PM [Bluesky] Jim are you only man on the planet that didn't have ow, didn't leave, wanted to keep his marriage and came out of it fine?

8:49 PM [wiffe] all- H shared a thought that has been put into his head. I asked if he wanted to share and he did. He mentioned going to seminary. I just said OK. My thoughts are/were WHAT but if that is God's will/plan then so be it. but he would first have to restore his marriage. Any thoughts on his thought?

8:49 PM [calla] hepsy - I think my son (9) is starting to express his anger yet it comes out at ME. Just my intuition, but he doesn't express anger at his dad. I am trying to figure out how to deal with this. Maybe it is just regular 9yo angst, but he has had some bad moments recently. I think he lashes out at me because he knows I am "safe."

8:49 PM [hepsy] faithful - and where is the logic in that? What did you say to him?

8:49 PM [Bluesky] Jim are you only man on the planet that didn't have ow, didn't leave, wanted to keep his marriage and came out of it fine?

8:52 PM Jim: Bluesky at :49, I'm sorry to disappoint you but, I do have some other women in my life - 3 daughters, several grand daughters, and a really great golden lab out in Seattle.

8:50 PM [lalachrissie] sbky I think they find one thing that they can focus on. my h is totally focused on work. my friend's H is focused on a writing group.

8:50 PM [doveseyes] faithful49 your husband hasn't read the statics of children of divorce....

8:50 PM [calla] faithful - better for who? The thinking is so skewed, isn't it?

8:50 PM [Bluesky] swan I understand, but cut yourself some slack, this is a difficult time.

8:50 PM [hepsy] bluesky - I second that question!

8:50 PM [faithful] hepsy I told him no I would not give him a divorce he can file if he wants but I will not.

8:51 PM [plumcrazy] WIFFE--I think it sounds like your H is trying to find his was spiritually. Let him explore. Encourage him but don’t push

8:51 PM [doveseyes] Jim..I am looking into possibly getting a masters degree in counseling with a biblical base..what would you recommend?

8:53 PM Jim: doveseyes at :51, Hey I'm very proud of you for considering this. Look at several schools and I would be glad to comment the schools you are considering.

8:51 PM [swan] Bluesky - Have you met me, I am a little tightly wound most of the time, but I will try.

8:51 PM [doveseyes] blue..him and Billy graham..

8:51 PM [plumcrazy] was=way Wiffe

8:51 PM [hepsy] faithful - good for you! what is your h doing now?

8:52 PM [wiffe] plumcrazy Well the girls and I just prayed about it. IF it is in God's will he will open the door. Maybe that is one thing where selling the house will help> DUNNO

8:52 PM [lalachrissie] calla at the suggestion of our therapist my d's have a journal and they write in it, either to me or to the therapist or to their dad & they can choose if any of us read it and what we read. d9 draws lots of pictures. both d's are able to express their feelings really well to my h.

8:52 PM [Cindy] swan...@ 6:50.... You?? You seem so laid back and calm.

8:52 PM [faithful] hepsy he started reconnecting with the kids about 1 to 2 months ago. Sees them every Monday and brings them home.

8:52 PM [Bluesky] swan hahaha, I hardly believe that one!!

8:52 PM [plumcrazy] CINDY---I was just thinking the same thing. That there is a calmness about swan

8:53 PM [hepsy] faithful - you mentioned he had someone else.. is that still the case?

8:53 PM [Bluesky] doveseyes did Billy graham have a mlc too?

8:53 PM [calla] lalachrissie - maybe I should try something like that. I have tried talking to my son without specifically mentioning my H but he doesn't say much.

8:53 PM [swan] Cindy - I can be, I try hard to be, but sometimes that old nature of trying to control everything tries to return

8:53 PM [faithful] hepsy I have no idea I do not ask.

8:53 PM [doveseyes] blue..I don't think so..

8:54 PM [Bluesky] Jim silly man, I meant at the time of your mlc...

8:57 PM Jim: bluesky at :54, at the time of my midlife crisis, we also had a female dog in our home, so you would have had to add her to the list, her name was "Misty".

8:54 PM [plumcrazy] Doveseyes----you go girl!!!!!!

8:54 PM [doveseyes] ok..how possible is it to do it online?

8:54 PM [faithful] doveseyes that is good going back to school. It will keep your mind busy and have something to look forward to.

8:54 PM [Bluesky] calla yes, you have a good handle on it. My d has done the same to me. She is so tight with her dad but I get the anger.

8:54 PM [Cindy] swan...I'm in CA. now awaiting the birth of my twin grandsons and realized the time change...for me....regarding the chat.

8:54 PM [doveseyes] plum...I am "moving on"..if I hear that one more time..I am doing to scream

8:55 PM [faithful] doveseyes I am doing most of my basics on line. I am going for my Masters in Nursing. Now a days you can do most of it online.

8:55 PM [doveseyes] faithful..if you can do it..I can do it...

8:55 PM [Bluesky] swan remember you are only human.

8:55 PM [plumcrazy] Dove--Hear what one more time?

8:55 PM [sbky] doveseyes I say I am moving forward. not moving on

8:55 PM [swan] Cindy - Oh, I can't wait to hear the good news when they arrive, what a blessing.

8:55 PM [doveseyes] plum.."You need to move on"

8:56 PM [lalachrissie] calla when C suggested it I took them both to the store and let them pick out their own journal and their own stuff to write with. they left their journals once for H to read and he left his infamous note "thank you for sharing your feelings with me, I always want to know how you feel" now the girls just write and don’t share it w/him

8:56 PM [doveseyes] sbky..that's good...moving forward

8:56 PM [plumcrazy] Doveseyes--I know what you mean about that!!!

8:56 PM [calla] bluesky - I don't know for sure, but that is what it seems like to me. He occasionally will express sadness about his dad not being around enough and prays for him every night. It is frustrating being the dependable parent and having them lash out, but at least I don't take it personally.

8:57 PM [mariposa] Jim: H just texted me and said "Why don't I feel you love my physically but only spiritually?" I told him that he has said this lie long enough that he now believes it. It is not true but he has distorted our relationship into this. How do I respond to this?

8:58 PM Jim: mariposa at :57, generally this is code words for "I want you to be a more sexy person"

8:57 PM [Cindy] swan...it seems real now that I'm here and seeing how big my daughter's belly is.

8:57 PM [swan] Bluesky - I know, but you didn't know me before, I am a perfect example of how God can change a person, even a very angry person. I could be a rather un-nice person, ruthless if I wanted something and you were in my way, it is only by the Grace of God that I found peace, calm and was able to release that old person. Guess I am just afraid, I will lose my peace and that anger will take over again. But thanks to all of you, I can see that God will never allow that to happen as long as I stay close to Him.

8:57 PM [sbky] calla I feel I am the only one doing the parenting. but I know in the long run the kids know who did what.. who was there and who wasn’t

8:57 PM [calla] lalachrissie - uggh. I don't blame them! Maybe mine would journal if we tried. I don't know. My S doesn't like to write.:)

8:57 PM [doveseyes] Jim..wow..your list keeps growing..

8:57 PM [faithful] doveseyes and plum people think because we do not get a divorce that we are not moving forward but we are. This is the way I look at it and told h. I am going on with my life and you are welcome to join us when you want to.

8:57 PM [plumcrazy] JIM--Did you see the Series Oprah did last week and the week before On male survivors of SA? What do you think of it if you did see or read about it?

8:58 PM Jim: plumcrazy at :57, I do not watch the Oprah show since it is during the work day - but it sounds like it would have been a great show.

8:58 PM [Bluesky] Jim you are ornery!!

8:58 PM [lalachrissie] calla d9 despises writing. she loves to draw though & she draws pictures. sometimes she just scribbles and makes angry faces, but it works

8:58 PM [Bluesky] swan this is just temporary!

8:58 PM [calla] sbky - Agreed! Down the line they will know who was the one there for them.

8:58 PM [doveseyes] faithful..all my friends are mad at me because of the way h is treated me..I have lost several through this process..sad

8:58 PM [faithful] sbky my daughter this weekend told me after her fit of anger that I was the only one that had not abandoned her and I was there for her all the time.

8:58 PM [mariposa] Jim: He struggles with sexual addiction and I feel that this is part of the addiction talking.

9:02 PM Jim: mariposa at :58, I don't want you to play into your husband's sexual addiction - but neither would I suggest that you become frigid because he does struggle with addiction. There are many ways that you can become more sexually stimulating to him, which often will help sexual addicts to have lower sexual bizarre needs. The Bible clearly says that you need to meet your husband's sexual needs and to realize that in marriage you surrender some of your rights to selfishly control the sexual activity of the marriage.

8:59 PM [dogwood] Jim-- I like your insight in your response to mariposa

8:59 PM [calla] lalachrissie -    - maybe I should journal - I could fill pages with scribbles and angry faces!:) My S is not a drawer either, but maybe he would figure out a way to communicate.

8:59 PM [Bluesky] doveseyes remember they don't understand what we know.

8:59 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie - well, he went all out, huh? no wonder they don't want to share with him.

8:59 PM [Bluesky] faithful huge praise.

9:00 PM [mariposa] Jim: and how do I accomplish this since he is no longer living at home?

9:04 PM Jim: mariposa at :00, often when a husband feels that his wife is not sexually responding, he thinks that she is not looking good, keeping herself in shape, and that she is too much of a controlling mothering type person. All of these issues can be worked on without your husband in the home.

9:00 PM [faithful] doveseyes I am so sorry. The friends that h and I had do not even come around. After he left they did not even come to see if I needed anything. What friends. I am better off without them.

9:00 PM [lalachrissie] calla LOL!!! maybe we could just get punching bags. a group discount??

9:00 PM [doveseyes] blue u r right..but man..it can hit in waves and is hard to take...also..I dread the holidays...

9:00 PM [calla] Lalachrissie - good idea! I could certainly get some use out of that!

9:01 PM [faithful] doveseyes is this your first holidays without h.

9:01 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy my girls said they wish they had a dollar for every time he has responded to them with his "quote" they said they could redecorate their bedrooms!

9:01 PM [hepsy] calla/lalachrissie - what about you? are you journaling through this experience? I am - and when I look back to the beginning of this mlc, I see much progress in myself.

9:01 PM [Bluesky] doveseyes yes, agreed. the holidays are difficult, start protecting yourself now.

9:01 PM [plumcrazy] JIM--Show featured 200 male survivors of SA. Lots or linked resources . but not sure of letting H know about it? Maybe later on but not now. I plan on watching 2nd half to help me

9:01 PM [doveseyes] faithful..really..that is one good thing about crisis..you see who your real friends are..no..last year was with us at Christmas..but not thanksgiving..but H was so checked out..it was miserable

9:01 PM [Bluesky] lalachrissie you have very smart girls.

9:01 PM [calla] lalachrissie - maybe they should make their dad put a dollar in a jar every time he says it.:)

9:02 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy/calla I am not journaling. chat is my journal

9:02 PM [doveseyes] blue how do you protect yourself?

9:02 PM [calla] hepsy - I did for a bit but gave up. No time and I was always afraid he would find it. I did journal on my computer some which I keep password protected.

9:02 PM [Bluesky] doveseyes I really meant prepare

9:02 PM [faithful] doveseyes this is my second holiday without him. He was in England last Christmas. It was painful but made it thru with help from my s27. I am having a hard time getting into the holidays

9:03 PM [lalachrissie] calla if they would see him...but they are so against this new dad that I can't get them to agree

9:03 PM [calla] lalachrissie - how long has he been in MLC?

9:03 PM [doveseyes] faithful..me 2..i miss my h..he really enjoys Christmas..it’s just another memory made without h..

9:04 PM [hepsy] calla - I journal during my quiet time. Not every day - probably once or twice a week. It helps to see the progress. At one time, about a year or so ago, I kept writing over and over "I want to die" Terrible, huh?

9:04 PM [Bluesky] doveseyes I think it is okay, your girls have valid feelings and they should be respected and you are.

9:04 PM [lalachrissie] Bluesky thank you. my therapist said today that he's proud of them, they obviously got my genes & not my h's!

9:04 PM [mariposa] Jim: I'm working on all of those things. Thank you for your insight.

9:04 PM [Bluesky] lalachrissie yeah!!

9:05 PM [calla] hepsy - terrible, but we have all been there I would guess. I remember for a very, very, very long time waking up EVERY morning wishing I didn't have to go through another day with the pain. Thankfully I am well beyond that.

9:05 PM [faithful] doveseyes have you heard from surety. I think of her often and her decision she had to make.

9:05 PM [doveseyes] Jim at 02 "not playing into your husband’s addiction can be very tricky not to do they...they can be master manipulators

9:05 PM [swan] Goodnight Jim and thanks, you are a blessing to all of us here.

9:05 PM Jim: ALL: I'm heading off to bed now. We are back home in Michigan, and I'm still trying to get of the bug I had before and during the chat room retreat. Please pray for me to be well soon so I can really get back into the swing of things. Thank you all for being here tonight. God bless and good night.

9:06 PM [doveseyes] faithful? Who

9:06 PM [mariposa] doveseyes: does your h also suffer with sexual addition?

9:06 PM [plumcrazy] Jim take care and feel better soon!!!

9:06 PM [Bluesky] Jim I thought you were going to Hawaii after the retreat.

9:06 PM [doveseyes] Good night Jim

9:06 PM [doveseyes] mariposa...yes...

9:06 PM [dogwood] thank you Jim and hope you will completely recover soon

9:06 PM [Cindy] Good night everyone. Have a blessed week.

9:06 PM [lisak] Hi Everyone. I'm back as myself again.

9:06 PM [lalachrissie] calla I’m not sure. He’s had several triggers. 6 years ago his friend was in a horrible motorcycle accident and almost died in h's arms. Sept 09 his dad had a heart attack may 2010 his uncle passed after a very long battle with cancer he told me in June that he was feeling different about us & I found out about an EA that started in May

9:06 PM [hepsy] calla - true - I am so glad not to be in that pit anymore... it was awful and I don't want to go back there...

9:06 PM [plumcrazy] goodnight CINDY

9:07 PM [doveseyes] Lisa...thanks again for a great experience...have you caught up on your sleep

9:07 PM [lisak] Lord, our hope is in You. You are the faithful and loving God. In You, we will find everything we need. Fill us, Lord. In Jesus’ name, Amen.

9:07 PM [faithful] I have to go and do homework.:(

9:07 PM [doveseyes] faithful..good night..and keep at it..I am sooo impressed...

9:07 PM [plumcrazy] Lisa--Are you familiar with the book Holding on to Heaven While your Husband goes thru H'''LL? It was under facilitators recommendations

9:08 PM [plumcrazy] AMEN

9:08 PM [lalachrissie] calla (cont) started in may & d12 was almost killed in July. he moved out one month later, but came back after 6 days he's been gone since Labor day

9:08 PM [mariposa] doveseyes: I have found that dealing with SA and MLC at the same time is almost unbearable !!

9:08 PM [plumcrazy] Take care Faithful-- I am thinking of you

9:08 PM [swan] plumcrazy - Yes, that book is highly recommended by some facilitators, me included.

9:08 PM [calla] lalachrissie - so maybe a slow downward spiral for a few years? I think my H started his several years ago too but was very noticeable beginning about 2 years ago.

9:08 PM [lisak] doveseyes at :07, It was all my pleasure. No - I don't think I've caught up on my sleep yet. I have not been able to stay awake long enough to even work on the website lately. Just before chat tonight, I did a couple little things, but there's so much to get busy on. And as I was waiting for Jim to call, I started to doze off.

9:09 PM [plumcrazy] swan --Have you read it? I haven’t started it yet

9:09 PM [doveseyes] mariposa..I know..you don't know which to focus on..how old is your h

9:09 PM [calla] hepsy - I would have to say now that it is just not worth it to let ourselves feel that way! No person should have that kind of hold over us.

9:09 PM [mariposa] doveseyes: He is 50

9:09 PM [lisak] plumcrazy at :07, No, I have not read it. I know it's a book that Hannah highly recommends.

9:09 PM [swan] plumcrazy - I have, really touched my heart and was so eye opening to something’s.

9:09 PM [doveseyes] Lisa..oh..I am sorry...but your reward will be great...

9:09 PM [calla] lalachrissie - what happened to D12? She is okay now?

9:10 PM [plumcrazy] SWAN--Thanks I will start reading it soon

9:10 PM [lalachrissie] calla he definitely changed in the last 4 years, I thought it was b/c of his job, but looking back I think it might have been related to the motorcycle accident

9:10 PM [doveseyes] mariposa...so is mine..h is going through women like crazy

9:10 PM [swan] plumcrazy - Great book, however, I still really believe you should read the Boundaries book first, enough said.

9:10 PM [mariposa] doveseyes: We just both recently returned from an SA conference with Mark and Debbie Laaser with Faithful and True Ministries. Very well work the time and money. Although H is still not going to counseling.

9:10 PM [lisak] "I will show you what it's like when someone comes to me, listens to my teaching, and then obeys me. It is like a person who builds a house on a strong foundation laid upon the underlying rock. When the floodwaters rise and break against the house, it stands firm because it is well built. But anyone who listens and doesn't obey is like a person who builds a house without a foundation. When the floods sweep down against that house, it will crumble into a heap of ruins" (Luke 6:47-49 NLT).

9:10 PM [doveseyes] Lisa..and you are definitely in your element...

9:11 PM [lalachrissie] calla we were on vacation, golfing and she fell out of a golf cart that she was driving and D9 ran over her.

9:11 PM [calla] lalachrissie - it takes a long time for them to spiral downward usually, I think.

9:11 PM [plumcrazy] SWAN--Ok I will read Boundaries first!!!

9:11 PM [calla] lalachrissie - how awful!!

9:11 PM [hepsy] calla - it was good to chat with you.. I am keeping in touch with Still.. Will be praying for you and your situation..You are right - we have to remember we are loved by God and He has a plan for our lives!

9:11 PM [calla] hepsy - thanks for the prayers - you are in mine. Still did mention you asked where I had been.:)

9:11 PM [lisak] doveseyes at :10 - yes that is what keeps me going. Being able to use my gifts and enjoy every minute of it. I'll have the rest of my life to catch up on sleep....I need to do what the Lord wants me to do now. :O)

9:12 PM [hepsy] All - gotta go to bed. Take care and sleep well!

9:12 PM [swan] plumcrazy - Remember many books also come on compact disc, which makes them much easier and can be listened to many times.

9:12 PM [calla] hepsy - good chatting with you, too. See you soon.

9:12 PM [lalachrissie] calla she's getting better. lots of physical therapy. it was awful. I was w/d9 and couldn't do anything to stop it. h was 20 feet away and he couldn't get there fast enough. it was the worst thing I’ve ever experienced.

9:12 PM [doveseyes] Lisa..that's good and true..everything looks fine until the floodwaters rise..I guess we are being tested now..sometimes I feel like I am in a tsunmai

9:12 PM [hepsy] lalachrissie - and you too, girl - stay strong! Try not to be sad, ok? Remember, God is with you!! nite!

9:12 PM [lalachrissie] hepsy good night. thank you

9:12 PM [plumcrazy] Doveseyes--I called out and found out about a self esteem support group. It meets tomorrow nite and is only about 10 min from where I live

9:12 PM [lisak] swan - I saw your notes about the chat room going crazy in the beginning. I, too, went into the back end and saw everything was set up correctly. It was just something bizarre that happened. Hopefully it won't happen again.

9:13 PM [doveseyes] Lisa..yes..I agree

9:13 PM [calla] lalachrissie - can't even imagine how awful it must have been. I do hope she is back to 100% soon!

9:13 PM [doveseyes] plum..yea...good...I think I want to find a group in my area. I enjoyed the openness so much at the retreat

9:13 PM [swan] lisak - I hope the same, but if it does and I'm not here, do as I did, create a new room and delete the problem room, it seemed to work

9:14 PM [plumcrazy] Dove--tomorrow I will see what hrs they have for counseling If it would work with my work schedule

9:14 PM [lalachrissie] calla thank you. nice chatting with you tonight. hope you can think of a good outlet for your son. I’ll try to think of something else...

9:14 PM [doveseyes] mariposa..is your h in or out of home

9:14 PM [lalachrissie] all- good night

9:14 PM [mariposa] doveseyes: He has been out of the home since July

9:14 PM [lisak] I'm going to head out. :o)

9:14 PM [plumcrazy] Dove--If you want we can talk by phone

9:15 PM [doveseyes] goodnight..Lisa

9:15 PM [sbky] night all

9:15 PM [Bluesky] night all.

9:15 PM [lisak] Goodnight all.

9:15 PM [doveseyes] plum ok let’s do that sometime...wkends are best for me..

9:15 PM [plumcrazy] nite Lisa Get some rest You deserve it

9:16 PM [mariposa] doveseyes: What about you’re H? In or out of home?

9:16 PM [calla] lalachrissie - good chatting with you as well. Maybe my S needs a punching bag.:) Nite!

9:16 PM [doveseyes] mar..out of H..couldn't stop picking up women..been out for 1 year

9:17 PM [plumcrazy] Tom--Is this your 1st time here?

9:17 PM [Tom Keith] Hi Yes it is

9:17 PM [plumcrazy] Welcome you have kind of come in at the end of chat

9:18 PM [Tom Keith] Forgive me, I was trying to register

9:18 PM [mariposa] doveseyes: Is your H doing any kind of counseling for the SA?

9:18 PM [swan] Tom Keith - Welcome, we are ending chat for tonight, but please join us again on Wed at 6:00 pm pacific time.

9:18 PM [doveseyes] mar..no..at first h did...but not now...and yours

9:18 PM [plumcrazy] Tom--you can look on the website for other chat nites and times. Please come back. Well you are registered and in chat    Please stay and come back on Wed nite

9:19 PM [Tom Keith] I will thank you

9:19 PM [plumcrazy] Tom--This is an awesome place to get support and info Pleas come back

9:19 PM [mariposa] doveseyes: Not now. He went to a 3-day intensive and was recommended to go inpatient but came home and is doing nothing.

9:19 PM [plumcrazy] Dove --Is that your friend you Made do you think?

9:20 PM [mariposa] dove: am praying he will start

9:20 PM [doveseyes] mar..mine was given the same recommendation..and H said no way...

9:20 PM [mariposa] dove: Mine was signed up to go and then backed out at the last minute

9:20 PM [doveseyes] plum..I don't know

9:20 PM [sbky] plum I told someone in the other chat about this place too

9:20 PM [plumcrazy] Dove --It would be awesome if it WAS!!!!

9:20 PM [doveseyes] mariposa..we need to talk by email..

9:21 PM [doveseyes] plum..I know....

9:21 PM [mariposa] dove: yes, we do.

9:21 PM [plumcrazy] Sbky--Good girl. People need to know about this site

9:21 PM [doveseyes] plum..bill is right..men need this to

9:21 PM [sbky] night all

9:21 PM [swan] Goodnight all, please wrap up, the room will close in a minute or two. Please join us on Wednesday evening.

9:22 PM [doveseyes] mariposa..great..I will tell you my story...well good night everyone..

9:22 PM [mariposa] all: Goodnight and thanks.

9:22 PM [plumcrazy] DOVE they sure do. But it would have to be men only I think for them to really share and get help

9:23 PM [plumcrazy] Goodnite everyone Take care. swan you are in my prayers

8:25 PM [doveseyes] Jim..do u recommend no contact with h..but let him contact me? he has no contact at all with me

8:27 PM Jim: doveseyes at :25, I encourage you not to make unnecessary contact with your husband, but to continue working on your own growth.

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