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October 25, 2010 / with Jim Conway

8:54 PM [MarySarah] Jim when a spouse finds ways around consequences, even legal ones & cont to lie in ways that can somehow be justified, but is still wrong, should the LBS cont to be firm with legal actions, etc.... What if no matter how free the Fleeing spouse is, what is the LBS to do when the other cont to try to come back & take more or calls when they are stressed to push our buttons & relieve their stress on us instead of ow? I feel like my H still expects & uses me as his excuses & stress relief, like he won't be content unless I leave the country or die

9:02 PM Jim: MarySarah at :54, basically - don't try to orchestrate consequences, focus on understanding the needs of your mate and increasing the intensity of your prayer for him.

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You have entered CR#2 Monday Chat with Jim at 6 pm PST.

8:00 PM [lisak] Good Evening. Welcome to Monday Night Chat with Jim. I’m Lisa, the Office Manager for Midlife Dimensions. I’m blessed to serve the Lord through our Chat Room Ministry which has helped so many people through their spouse’s midlife journey. Jim Conway will be online with us shortly and as he reads your questions, he’ll dictate his answers for me to type and post for you to see. He will answer all questions that come in before the end of the hour. If you would like to show your appreciation to Jim, you can make a tax-deductible contribution to Jim’s ministry via PayPal at www.Midlife.com. Funds support the Chat Room and Website upkeep. Thank you.

8:03 PM [plumcrazy] Hello Everyone

8:03 PM [hepsy] hi plum

8:04 PM [doveseyes] hello...Lisa thanks for your patience with the retreat...I appreciate you help

8:04 PM Jim: This is a special day for me because it is the last time that I sailed my sailboat in 2010. Any day now it is going to snow up here in Northern Michigan, and since we had a rather warm day, 60 degrees, we bundled up and went sailing on our lake. But now the sailboat goes away in the garage until next May - yes winter is that long up here. Jan and I are looking forward to seeing some of you at the Chat Room Retreat in just a few days.

8:05 PM [plumcrazy] JIM-I am getting excited I have never been to CA. I could really use the break. Looking forward to talking to you and Jan

8:06 PM [doveseyes] Jim...yes, I am excited to come. I can't wait to see what God has in store for all of us.

8:07 PM Jim: plumcrazy and doveseyes, I'm glad you both are coming to the retreat. We are already praying that it will be a very special time for all of us.

8:07 PM [doveseyes] Jim...had a hard weekend. H is boldly bringing his various ow around my kids...it is upsetting them. What could he be thinking? H has no contact with me at all.

8:09 PM Jim: doveseyes @ :07, often midlife men are living in such a fantasy world that they view the wife as a used car, which can easily be traded in. So the confused midlife man thinks that the kids will be eager to see the new car (many potential wives) that he is looking at.

8:07 PM [hepsy] Jim - wish I could come but perhaps next year. I am enjoying getting to know everyone on chat and really appreciate this ministry. It has truly helped me to navigate through this difficult crisis.

8:10 PM Jim: hepsy at :07, we are all going to miss you, sorry you can't make it. Please join us for the live chat on Saturday, with me and everyone at the Retreat!

8:08 PM [plumcrazy] JIM--I have been praying for my H. Laying my hands on and praying silently as he sleeps or as he is resting. As soon as I got done last night he seemed very restless and uncomfortable. What do you think may be causing this? I feel there is an evil spirit trying to control him and he is struggling to break free. What are your thoughts?

8:10 PM Jim: plumcrazy at :08, I encourage you to keep laying your hands on your husband and praying for him. Don't worry about some of his reactions - just know that God is at work.

8:09 PM [hepsy] hi still - how are you? Been thinking about you.

8:09 PM [swan] Hello everyone, how are you tonight?

8:09 PM [Still] Hi Hepsy, I am fine. How about you?

8:09 PM [hepsy] still - same.. Is your h home?

8:10 PM [doveseyes] Jim at 09..it isn't one woman...3 or 4 a week.

8:10 PM [plumcrazy] Wiffe--I was so encouraged by your email PTL!!!!

8:11 PM [plumcrazy] Yoli--Where have you been hiding Miss?

8:12 PM [doveseyes] Jim at 11..wow..They are all very loose immoral women

8:12 PM [plumcrazy] Wiffe --I will keep your marriage and family in my prayers

8:12 PM [Yoli] plum: No, just been really busy. I also went to see younger daughter in NYC and then she was near here for this past weekend. What can I say, I'm old and tired.

8:12 PM [Still] Hepsy, yes he is home. He is chatting on the phone with his buddies. It is hard to hear him laughing and excited. When he hangs up, we get the grumpy side of him. Ugh.

8:13 PM [faithful] Jim I just finish seeing my h. I picked up the boys from boys scouts and he actually came up to me and started talking. It was a very light conversation and even jokes with him a little bit. As he was walking away I told him he still looked good. He just smiles and walks away.

8:14 PM Jim: faithful at :13, this is extremely good news, and whatever you are doing is definitely having an impact on him. Keep up the good work.

8:13 PM [plumcrazy] Yoli--No you ARENT!!! You are a beautiful lady !!! I do understand the tired part though

8:13 PM [doveseyes] Jim..It is just killing me. I feel everyone is looking at me as stupid for not filing for d and “moving on"

8:14 PM Jim: doveseyes at :13, remember he wants you to file for divorce so that he will look like the good person.

8:13 PM [dogwood] Jim—h has moved to a separate bedroom although he knew that I did not like the idea at all, but he insisted on. I fear this is his way of staying separated for good. Since he wants to be free from the marriage bond as he wants to find out who he is. I do not want to live the rest of my life this way. Should I ask him if he intends to live a separate life for the rest of our lives? I do not have much hope since he is not interested to work on our marriage at this point, but continues to become even more distanced. Considering he admitted that he has not been faithful in marriage but had not indicated if he wants to turn around but instead wanting to be free.

8:15 PM Jim: dogwood at :13, its good news that he is still in the house - even if in another room.

8:14 PM [hepsy] still - I can totally relate.. My h is all laughter and joking with his friends.. But with me he says nothing.. Totally ignores me. I had a frustrating day at work - I can't even talk about it with him because he doesn't care..

8:14 PM [wiffe] plumcrazy I just want to jump for joy but I know there is still a lot of work.

8:15 PM [Yoli] Plum: Thank you. I don't feel like that right now, but thank you. With the job change and all the problems I've had with the new people, I've had to look elsewhere for work. Luckily I've found it. But as soon as I get to house, I begin to work and haven't had much time to just sit around or do something fun.

8:15 PM [wiffe] plumcrazy -he did call the counseling place today but they have no openings so he will have to wait for a cancellation. Pray there is one soon. And he can get to it.

8:15 PM [Still] Hepsy, I know. It is just so frustrating.

8:15 PM [wiffe] doveseyes at :13 like my principal said to me. The people who expect that are the people who don't know the Lord.

8:15 PM [swan] doveseyes @:12 - sadly it isn't so much that they are loose immoral women, but they are hurting, lost women who usually have extremely low self-esteems and are just looking for someone to love them. They need and deserve our prayers and empathy more than anything else (even though they are doing things that are hurting so many others, us included).

8:16 PM [plumcrazy] JIM--I have a question. H initiates intimacy for a while then backs off I know that is natural. But I don’t know if I am reading more into the intimacy than there is maybe he is just trying to take care of urges. What do you think. Seems very caring when intimate not just about pleasing himself

8:17 PM Jim: plumcrazy at :16, it sounds as if things are really moving forward for you. Keep responding to him, and keep on with the process of your changes.

8:17 PM [hepsy] still - it is like I try to not focus on it - but it is in my face every night. I used to be able to talk to my h about anything.. Now I am afraid - walk on eggshells all the time.. It is exhausting..

8:17 PM [plumcrazy] Hepsy--I understand about wanting to talk about work etc. H seems to be able to talk to everyone else but me and be NICE to them. It hurts to see him be that way with others

8:17 PM [faithful] doveseyes it looks like we are sharing a room together.

8:18 PM [doveseyes] Jim at 14..that makes sense..He is being more and more selfish with his money.

8:18 PM [Yoli] Jim: How are you doing? I continue to have the same question that I've had from day one when this journey began. My husband panicked when I had to call him about younger daughter. She was very sick, depressed, and almost despondent. I was concerned about her. Had to send 911 by text for him to talk. Then older daughter had to "scold" him and tell him to man up and take responsibility for both of his daughters. I'm really getting tired of no contact, even in regard to daughters. I do think OW will rip a new one into him if he talks to me. What is all of this about? It's been 4 1/2 years.

8:21 PM Jim: Yoli at :18, we need to talk by phone. (Are you coming to the retreat?)

8:18 PM [doveseyes] faithful at 17..yes..I look forward to it. I am planning on crying the whole time..

8:19 PM [faithful] Jim it was so hard because I wanted to ask him if he was ready to come home but held my tongue. It is hard I have to keep watch myself. I just want to hold him and tell him I love him but I know it will only push him away.

8:22 PM Jim: faithful at :19, yes - let him set the pace.

8:19 PM [faithful] doveseyes at 18 I am too because is hard to cry with all my kidos around and my sister is tired of hearing me talk about h.

8:20 PM [hepsy] plumcrazy - I guess when I am feeling kind of down it is easier to feel more hurt. I don't know why he can't at least treat me like he would a friend.. I don't even feel like we are friends anymore.

8:20 PM [mariposa] Jim: I had so many positive signs for a while with H. Confessing before the church, going to a sexual addiction 3-day intensive, some good talks but last Thursday he called and wants to get a divorce again ! We have had only a tiny bit of texting contact since then. This morning he texted me and told me he was worried about me. I'm so confused.

8:23 PM Jim: mariposa at :20, remember that he is also confused, and he may be regretting that he became so vulnerable to the church. He also may be afraid as learns about sexual addictions.

8:21 PM [doveseyes] faithful 19..same here..Everyone is getting tired of hearing it. So..We can share and cry together!

8:21 PM [mariposa] all: I feel like I'm on a roller coaster with the devil at the controls --taking me up and down at his will and laughing all the way.

8:22 PM [wiffe] mariposa ((hugs))

8:22 PM [faithful] dovesyes my sister understands and actually supports me but I can feel she is getting tired and at times ignore me so I try not to say anything.

8:22 PM [Yoli] Jim: I would love to go. Hadn't made plans. Airfare is ridiculously expensive. I'm going to miss not being able to go.

8:24 PM Jim: Yoli at :22, isn't Southwest Airlines cheap, out of your area?

8:22 PM [plumcrazy] 'Hepsy--That is EXACTLY how I feel. Last night I was asking H about using the microwave after I cleaned it some of the paint flaked off and metal was exposed. I said it wasn’t probably safe to use right? Then H said "well if you use it make sure you stand in front of it." I think he was kidding but still that bothered me. I feel like he would be happy if I disappeared

8:22 PM [mariposa] Thanks wiffe and I am still so happy about your news. I have been thinking about it all day.

8:23 PM [faithful] mariposa I know what you mean about the rollercoaster ride and we just have to remember who our enemy is and he wants us discourage.

8:23 PM [hepsy] mariposa - I know - I am on the same roller coaster - we all are..

8:24 PM [doveseyes] swan 15..you r right..This was the first time he introduced my kids to one of them..It hurt..I am grieving

8:24 PM [wiffe] all-do I call the counseling place and let the receptionist know it is my husband and as soon as they have a cancellation to call him? Granted I would hope he left his number so we will see. Or do I wait for him.

8:24 PM [faithful] all has anyone heard about Cricket and her results.

8:25 PM [hepsy] plumcrazy - that wasn't a nice thing to say.. I am sure your feelings were hurt - even if he was kidding. Sometimes I want to tell my h that I don't deserve to be treated like this - but then I don't think he would care. He has said that he doesn't.

8:25 PM Jim: To all: This is Lisa the Office Manager. Some of you may have not had enough personal time with Jim, or you have a very private question that you didn’t want to discuss openly in the chat room. If you'd like to schedule a phone counseling session call us at 714-768-1777.

8:25 PM [Yoli] Jim: That’s where I checked and it's over $400. You would think it would be cheap but it's really not. That's even with web-only fares which are always cheaper. Full price would have been astronomical.

8:26 PM Jim: Yoli - at :25, I've asked Lisa to help you watch for some cheap airline prices to help out.

8:25 PM [plumcrazy] Wiffe--don’t push about the counseling Let him do it. It will just upset him if you do. Listen to me I speak from experience

8:26 PM [plumcrazy] Faithful--Cricket said she has to wait a couple of days for the results. But technician said it looked good

8:26 PM [swan] doveseyes @:24 - they just want for their children to accept the other person and the relationship, the other person so badly wants to be liked. These women are often like little children and want everyone around them to like them. They don't see what they are doing as wrong, just what is going to finally make them happy, loved and accepted.

8:27 PM [Yoli] Jim: I had planned to go to see younger daughter for Family weekend. She basically told me not to go. A few weeks after that, she was really sick and her boyfriend had just broken up with her. She couldn't eat and was really sick. She asked me to go see her. So I used the credit I had to go see her. I thought that was more important than my going to the retreat. I’ll check again and see if I can find a cheaper fare. But if not, then I may be able to pay for a short phone counseling session. I will let Lisa know. Thanks.

8:30 PM Jim: Yoli at :27, we are all very glad that you went to be with your daughter - good for you. (:28, great.)

8:28 PM [doveseyes] Jim..What finally causes a mlc to end? What percentage of marriages make it through

8:28 PM [koko] Jim. Is it common for someone in mlc to with withdraw physically even though there is no OM

8:31 PM Jim: koko at :28, yes - confused midlife people generally have little or no energy and they find it easy to withdraw. When the midlife person gets involved with someone else, they generally are viewing it as a nourishing, fun time, not a drain on them - compared to how they view their mate and family.

8:29 PM [hepsy] dogwood - how are you?

8:29 PM [doveseyes] swan at 26..good..But my boys just meet her..Wasn’t around her..The is one of many ow

8:30 PM [plumcrazy] KOK0--I would say yes. My H says it is hard to feel anything for anyone else when he doesn’t even care about himself. Said it felt like he was using me when we were intimate > Not like how it is supposed to feel

8:30 PM [dogwood] Jim--Is it okay to let h know that separation in a separate bedroom is okay to be a short-term to release his stress but not acceptable to me if that is his long-term plan?

8:32 PM Jim: dogwood at :30, try not to plan or project too far into the future about all of the "what ifs".

8:31 PM [faithful] Jim h also offer to buy the boys uniforms top and belt. He is really getting involved in their Boy Scout activities. He even press their tops because they were wrinkle. I am really feeling good about it all but I am scared at the same time. Do not want to get my hopes up and then back down. Trying to keep my emotions from getting the best of me.

8:33 PM Jim: faithful at :31, your feelings are exactly on target, but remember that your emotional stability needs to come from God, not from the ups and downs in your relationship.

8:32 PM [koko] Lisa, although I cannot make the retreat I would like to help with a donation for airfare. I see a few that really want to go I would like to help. What do I do

8:34 PM Jim: koko at :32, this is Lisa - I will talk to you about that soon, can you stay in the chat room for the rest of the evening?

8:32 PM [Yoli] Jim: Oh, she's made a complete 180 when it comes to me. She even thanked me this weekend for going to see her. She was really happy because my dad also went. She hadn't seen him since she graduated from high school, about 1 1/2 years. She specifically asked him to go. It was a good weekend. She doesn't seem to be embarrassed with me and my clumsiness anymore. Our relationship seems to be good. Thank God. I might add that I know there has been a lot of people praying and I know that God has answered lots of prayers in the relationship with both my daughters.

8:36 PM Jim: Yoli at :32, this is extremely good news. But remember that this is also a period of time where she is learning to trust you again. So keep working on any areas which you have identified as important to her.

8:32 PM [hepsy] dogwood - my h has been on the couch for 2 years.. Can you believe that? I am so tired of it and he doesn't seem to be budging from it anytime soon.

8:32 PM [swan] doveseyes @:29 - depending on the age of your boys, maybe they could explain to their dad that it is too soon, they just aren't ready to be a part of this relationship with this woman. Younger children get attached to people, even people we would prefer not and then for that person to just be gone is hard from them to deal with. They may not really understand what is going on with their dad and being introduced to the other person is only confusing them more. But it is something they need to discuss with dad, if you do it just seems like you are trying to control him and keep his boys from him.

8:33 PM [plumcrazy] JIM--I get frustrated, H seems to be able to be nice and have courteous conversations with everyone else but me. If I try to have a conversation and say more than two things he gets a nasty tone with me. Often I don’t speak to him at all because he gets irritated if I talk to him while he watches TV or plays his online game World of Warcraft. Why so nasty to me?

8:37 PM Jim: plumcrazy at :33, There is something that is still very irritating about your relationship - somehow he feels that you are not meeting his needs or changing enough.

8:35 PM [doveseyes] swan at 32 good advice..thx

8:35 PM [faithful] doveseyes and plum what time do you guys plan of checking into the hotel and do we need to make reservations.

8:35 PM [KM2] Hi all.

8:35 PM [dogwood] hepsy--is there any sign of progress? do you ever feel like you want to ask him?

8:35 PM [koko] Jim so I could look at my W spending time w her girlfriends as her fun time. not a bad thing I guess

8:38 PM Jim: koko at :35, you are correct, this is a good thing.

8:36 PM [hepsy] Jim - I mentioned the other night that my h is getting more angry - he even said something about his mother - that she's negative and critical - something he has accused me of. Is this anger just the mlc stage or the alcohol or both?

8:38 PM Jim: hepsy at :36, it may be that he is making comments about his mother as a way to help you see areas which bother him.

8:36 PM [plumcrazy] JIM--As soon as he gets off the game at night he grabs his phone and practically sprints upstairs. I know part of it has been my fault . I would wait till he got off his game to try and talk about things, so now he thinks he should run before I can talk to him.

8:39 PM Jim: plumcrazy at :36, the game and quickly running away from you are very clear indicators that there is something which really troubles him about your relationship, and he is trying to avoid you.

8:36 PM [doveseyes] faithful at 35..I believe I arrive around 2..I am staying until Monday..I believe you are leaving Sunday?

8:36 PM [faithful] Jim I am trying to get back in the word and prayer again. I am not working extra hours this week so I can spend time with God.

8:40 PM Jim: faithful at :36, good for you.

8:36 PM [dogwood] Jim--thanks, that is VERY hard for me. but will try. I am tired of projecting the unknown

8:40 PM Jim: dogwood @ :36, we are all proud of you. Keep at it.

8:37 PM [Yoli] Jim: Yeah, this is exactly what is going on. Thanks for the advice.

8:37 PM [faithful] doveseyes I arrive at LA at 1130 and my sister is picking me up. She will probably drop me off at the hotel around 4 or 5.

8:37 PM [plumcrazy] faithful--not sure what time I am checking in Won’t get to the airport till about 6:15. Who wants to make the reservation?

8:38 PM [koko] Lisa I will try if not you could send me an email or WED might be better,

8:38 PM [hepsy] dogwood - I asked him a few weeks ago about it - I said "have you thought about sleeping somewhere else?" he said no. I said, "are you going to sleep on the couch forever?" he gave me an ugly look and said in an angry tone "I don't know!!!"

8:39 PM [mariposa] Jim: When talking about divorce my H tells me that there will never be another "me" that he will be able to find but he can't move on and heal with me in the picture.

8:41 PM Jim: mariposa at :39, I think he is still using the divorce thing to try and bring about changes in your marriage relationship at the same time he says there will never be another you because he doesn't want to hurt your feelings or start an argument.

8:39 PM [dogwood] hepsy--my h looks VERY depressed and unhappy all the time

8:40 PM [faithful] dogwood at 39. I know my h looked so depress and unhappy for a long time. Recently I have seen a few sparks in his eyes and looking more like himself.

8:40 PM [hepsy] Jim - well I know that has been an issue- and I have improved immensely in this area. I am positive and encouraging.. but unfortunately, he does not receive it. Guess he doesn't trust me yet.

8:41 PM Jim: hepsy at :40, yes, he is building trust with you over this issue, so hang in there.

8:40 PM [KM2] Jim - thought you might be able to give me some guidance in navigating my current situation with my W. Eight months apart. She’s still on the fence as to what she wants to do. We have had a number of great visits during which we have had an opportunity to spend some good quality time together. How do I continue to respond to her when one day she wants to get back together and the next day she’s not there.

8:42 PM Jim: KM2 at :40- all of this indicates some of her confusion. Go with the flow and keep on trying to understand her and meet her needs.

8:40 PM [plumcrazy] JIM--I think you are right. I just can’t seem to let go of my insecurities and the surface every so often and I badger him by asking too many questions about relationship. Usually ends up with him attacking me about my past. He even said one time "Bug me too much and I will say something you WON’T like"

8:41 PM [dogwood] Jim--h mentioned that his mother was unhappy in the marriage but could not leave his father due to financial concerns, but he told me that he and I are financial independent and should not be a concern even if separated.

8:44 PM Jim: dogwood at :41, keep focusing on why your husband wants to be out of the relationship with you. Not on whether it would be financially easy or hard.

8:41 PM [koko] Jim. W spent weekend with D17,GF, and her 2D,went to Christian concert at a church they spent night and went shopping next day

8:41 PM [hepsy] dogwood - my h does too.. and now he uses profanity - something he NEVER did before this. total personality change. He was always happy, smiling, positive, and encourager...now he is miserable.

8:42 PM [hepsy] Jim - I am

8:45 PM Jim: hepsy at :42, we are all happy for you too.

8:42 PM [doveseyes] hepsy and dogwood..my H does to..my 22 son said dad was using cursing phrases he has never heard before

8:44 PM [plumcrazy] Hello Marysarah

8:44 PM [mariposa] all: My husband never used profanity until MLC hit. Very shocking.

8:44 PM [hepsy] doveseyes - my d19 said that h tells dirty jokes at work (she works there part time) in front of her - she was shocked - he NEVER would have done that in the past.

8:45 PM [hepsy] Jim - several of us have mentioned that our h now uses profanity where in past would have never done that. Why is this?

8:46 PM Jim: hepsy at :45, it's like a grade school boy who has learned to say some bad word as a way to shock people and demonstrate that he is independent.

8:45 PM [KM2] Jim at 42 - like two sides of the same coin, however any way I can minimize the roller coaster ride.

8:47 PM Jim: KM2 at :45, you must keep focusing on time with God by reading the Bible and also I would encourage you to read the little book, "31 Days Of Praise". This quiet time with God will help to stabilize you, even when things are up and down.

8:45 PM [doveseyes] hepsy at 44..I hear you...It's like we don't even know this man he has become. It can get discouraging because I find myself wondering if h will ever turn back to the man we used to know..not this drinking, cursing..man he has become

8:46 PM [mariposa] Jim: H has said that he has lost his guilt feelings over acting out with OW but has not lost his shame. What is the difference?

8:48 PM Jim: mariposa at :46, it's just a word game - he's trying to convince you that he is not feeling as bad about the situation as you would expect him to.

8:46 PM [doveseyes] plumcrazy and faithful...about the reservation..just let me know. I will need to stay through Monday..unless I can get with someone else who is staying until then

8:46 PM [hepsy] doveseyes - does your h drink too?

8:46 PM [KM2] Hepsy - Read a book called War of Words. Highly recommend it for any person who has a problem with unwholesome speech.

8:47 PM [hepsy] Jim - well, it is definitely shocking!

8:47 PM [doveseyes] hepsy..yes..horribly..but we have no contact with him. He is totally immersed in his fantasy world..he entertains a lot with his job, so he drinks when he works, too.

8:47 PM [plumcrazy] Doveseyes--Do you want to make the reservation till Mon then. Faithful and I can pay you our part when we get there then if that is OK

8:48 PM [doveseyes] I can if I don't have to make a deposit..I think most places will hold the reservation until we show up..

8:48 PM [faithful] doveseyes I think it will be better since you are arriving first. Just let me know how much so I can have the cash on hand.

8:49 PM [doveseyes] swan..do you think it is possible to find a roommate for Sunday night? don't think I can do the 100 for one night..I had budgeted 100 for my whole stay

8:49 PM Jim: ALL - THIS IS LISA - I'll stay in the room a bit extra tonight to discuss the retreat, all are welcome to stay and ask questions.

8:49 PM [hepsy] doveseyes - are you d? My h drinks and drives. NEVER did that before either. He is an executive - his vp buds all drink the hard stuff - keep it at work.

8:49 PM [plumcrazy] Hello bluesky

8:50 PM [swan] doveseyes - There just are not that many staying over Sunday, but I will try to see what I can do.

8:50 PM [doveseyes] hepsy..my husband is an vp too..no,..not d...my h does too..drinks and drives

8:50 PM [mariposa] Hi bluesky? Doing ok?

8:50 PM [doveseyes] swan..thanks, I would appreciate it

8:50 PM [MarySarah] Jim, looking at what has been discussed prior, what can one do when a spouse always received whatever he/she demanded & has never said what really bothered them. Don't you think some people are never happy, b/c they expect someone else to be a duplicate of themselves or have too high expectations of another to read their mind & complete them. Ex what can anyone do with thoughts like "I changed my mind" or "I always get what I want" ? What is anyone to do with a spouse that says marriage should be effortless, which of course affairs usually are at least for a while. I recently read what made sense about people not wanting to divorce their spouse, but the marriage instead. Some people want to look at prob & change whatever they can to benefit the marriage but others just want to chuck it & blame it on the other spouse as not being compatible, what then?

8:55 PM Jim: MarySarah at :50, I will answer you a little later because it's such a big paragraph, I'll need to read it when there's a break in the speed of the chat room. It would really help if you can break it down into short precise questions, and send 1 at a time. Thanks.

8:51 PM [Bluesky] Hi Plum, Mariposa, I am still a bit raw but thanks for asking. I asked h today if he would consider a legal sep instead. Haven't heard a word back.

8:51 PM [doveseyes] hepsy..my h wanted women that would party with him and would fall into that lifestyle...I am home holding down the ship..it gets old..

8:51 PM [mariposa] bluesky: That sounds like a good thing to ask him.

8:52 PM [plumcrazy] JIM Do you think H is like She is NEVER going to change being jealous? And get irritated. I did good at keeping my mouth shut for about 2months Then something happened and it seems the insecurities and questioning just flood out.

8:56 PM Jim: plumcrazy at :52, I want to encourage you to keep on with your process of growth so that your husband's trust will continue to grow.

8:52 PM [Bluesky] mariposa I am very concerned about my health insurance as I don't work.

8:52 PM [KM2] Jim at 47 - I continue to focus my attention on the Lord, however I find it very difficult to separate my feelings for my W and D's. Is there any way I can gently bridge the gap on the roller coaster issue and minister to my W in a way that would help her?

8:59 PM Jim: KM2 at :52, for now focus on what she feels is missing in her relationship with you. Have you picked up a used copy of our book, "Women in Midlife Crisis" and have you read, “Men are Like Waffles, Women are Like Spaghetti” by Farrel., All of these books may be ordered through

8:52 PM [faithful] Jim did you every answer the question regarding what percentage of marriages make it thru MLC and also what is the average length of MLC.

8:52 PM [hepsy] doveseyes - wow.. you have been married 24 years? right? I hate the drinking and driving. I worry he might get in a wreck. I know how you feel - it does get old..How long has this been going on?

8:52 PM [hepsy] hi calla

8:53 PM [plumcrazy] Hey Calla

8:53 PM [mariposa] blue: Yes, that is a very big concern.

8:53 PM [Bluesky] KM2 I have come in late, are things okay?

8:53 PM [swan] doveseyes - There is a possibility of someone who requested only one roommate, who wants to stay and the other person who requested one roommate only isn't staying, possibly you could move into her room and that would be a two way split verses 100%.

8:53 PM [faithful] Jim also what makes someone come out of MLC

9:01 PM Jim: faithful at :53, see what I just said to Doveseyes please.

8:53 PM [lalachrissie] all- In a text from my husband he referred to our D by the nickname I call her. He has never done this before, ever. He has his own nickname for her. Is this someway that he is trying to connect to her b/c she has had no contact for 4 weeks.

8:53 PM [calla] hi all. Had to shut down for a bit - my H came in.:)

8:54 PM [hepsy] calla - you doing ok?

8:54 PM [doveseyes] hepsy..mlc..2 years..separated 1 year..the hard part now is he is not in our life at all...nothing..random texts..no contact with me..or my 3 kids..are you d

8:54 PM [calla] hepsy - pretty well today. It was a bit rough yesterday but overall a good past few days. And you?

8:54 PM [MarySarah] Jim when a spouse finds ways around consequences, even legal ones & cont to lie in ways that can somehow be justified, but is still wrong, should the LBS cont to be firm with legal actions, etc.... What if no matter how free the Fleeing spouse is, what is the LBS to do when the other cont to try to come back & take more or calls when they are stressed to push our buttons & relieve their stress on us instead of ow? I feel like my H still expects & uses me as his excuses & stress relief, like he won't be content unless I leave the country or die

9:02 PM Jim: MarySarah at :54, basically - don't try to orchestrate consequences, focus on understanding the needs of your mate and increasing the intensity of your prayer for him.

8:55 PM [doveseyes] swan..that would be awesome...50 is better than 100..what type of sightseeing planned? I am excited because I have never been to California...

8:56 PM [doveseyes] Jim...what is a good sign/indicator that h is getting close to the end of his mlc?

9:00 PM Jim: doveseyes at :56, usually some of the internal problems in the midlife person are resolved and at the same time they see hope that their marriage can be better than it was before.

8:56 PM [hepsy] doveseyes - no, I am not d but I feel like it - seriously, feels like emotionally divorced. My h hardly speaks to me. terrible way to live.

8:56 PM [swan] doveseyes - only plumcrazy has said what type of things she wants to do, but I am sure Lisa will have some things planned for those who want to see the area.

8:56 PM [wiffe] ALL-got a question. My brother is getting married in a week and a half. DO I ask H to go with us to the wedding?

8:56 PM [KM2] Bluesky - same thing. One day up one day down. How are things with you?

8:56 PM [doveseyes] hepsy..is h still at home?

8:56 PM [hepsy] calla - ok, I guess. I had a frustrating day at work - was tired. The weekend was nice - my s22 came home. I enjoyed his company.

8:57 PM [mariposa] wiffe: My vote is "yes"

8:57 PM [Bluesky] KM2 not good. My h informed me this weekend via email that he was leaving to live in Asia for a couple of years due to work.

8:57 PM [doveseyes] swan..I am game..but I would want to see what is awesome to see in 1 day..like if you visited me, I would take you to the Smokey Mountains National Park..I live near there

8:57 PM [MarySarah] faithful,:53 I think Jim talks about that in his book? Most I thought he said come through it, some are short & others longer, depending how much early damage they have to work through? Not sure, but, in case it takes a long time b/c # people here, thought I'd say what I heard/read before. I think Jim's book said 3-5yrs on average but can be less or more. Guess I need to re-read it!

8:57 PM [plumcrazy] JIM---I am going to go to a Women’s center here Haven’t had a chance things with D and work have been crazy. I am going to get some counseling. I am also going to check out support group for self esteem and emotional abuse

9:03 PM Jim: plumcrazy at :57, I'm glad that you are reaching out for other people to help.

8:58 PM [Bluesky] wiffe, I would say yes too. Being around family now that he is making strides might be good.

8:58 PM [dogwood] Jim--my second to MarySarah's question. are there mlcer who will resolve in having their cake and eat it rather than working toward reconciliation.

9:05 PM Jim: dogwood at :58, most confused midlife men are not thinking that they have their cake, and are eating it too. They are just feeling that their wife does not understand them - but they are obligated to stay married - and the girlfriend is a fling that makes life tolerable.

8:58 PM [hepsy] doveseyes -yes, my h is home - but has nothing to do with me. Sleeps on couch. Takes all his showers at the gym. It is like we live separate lives.. I hate it.

8:58 PM [Bluesky] doveseyes you might need to book a helicopter to see everything in a day

8:58 PM [calla] hepsy - glad you had a good weekend with your S22. Sorry about work.:(

8:59 PM [faithful] MarySarah I guess I need to read it again.

8:59 PM [MarySarah] Jim 55 OK so is there a way to really get any major issues in our spouses minds to the forefront, if they are not open, introspective & such. IE mine still says it just happens & nothing is wrong as he simply changed his mind?

8:59 PM [doveseyes] 58 hepsy..so sorry, but I think it is worse when they are out of the home with no contact..my teenagers are majorly struggling..they are orphans now..even though their dad is alive..it’s so sad

9:00 PM [hepsy] dogwood - sometimes I think that my h prefers it this way.. he can do what he wants and I take care of his clothes, meals, and house maintenance.

9:00 PM [mariposa] doveseyes: I so agree. I feel abandoned and so do my children.

9:00 PM [mariposa] hepsy: I did go through what you are for quite a while, too. It is difficult both ways.

9:01 PM [faithful] doveseyes at 59 I know what you mean because my kids did not see their dad for a while and now he is starting to act like a dad again but d13 will not have anything to do with him.

9:01 PM [doveseyes] Jim..how does that work when we aren't around him at all

9:06 PM Jim: doveseyes at :01 - changes in your life should be a constant thing that everybody sees - it's not just a performance that you put on when you are around your husband.

9:01 PM [plumcrazy] ALL--Someone here told me there was a website where I can read the Bible online. I am having trouble reading the small print in my Bible. Can anyone give me the info again?

9:01 PM [MarySarah] Dogwood 58 well put. This is so hard for me often, b/c my H has ALWAYS had his cake & been able to eat it too! I didn't see how I was enabling that, but so does everyone in my H's life. People can be very good at getting what they want & using others while remaining charming. Very sad. Sometimes these people are crying out for discipline in some way

9:02 PM [hepsy] doveseyes - I am sure that must be very difficult - especially for your kids..I am sorry...

9:02 PM [Bluesky] plumcrazy I am excited to hear that. I am going back to counseling myself.

9:02 PM [Bluesky] plumcrazy just Google it

9:02 PM [swan] plumcrazy - www.gatewaybible.com, you can pick the version and enlarge the print

9:03 PM [plumcrazy] Swan--that’s the one thanks

9:03 PM [dogwood] MarySarah--I feel that h gets the way he wants; he complains that sometimes he does not communicate because he knows that I do not agree, but he just go ahead act out what he wants, yet complains that I am dominate and disapprove of him

9:04 PM [KM2] Bluesky - same thing. One day up one day down. How are things with you?

9:04 PM [doveseyes] mariposa..it is so awful..I am sorry..I try to say everyday that God is working for my good...and to submit to His will.. I am realizing what a strong willed person I am..I want my way and I don't like any of this..I want my h and dad back..

9:05 PM [hepsy] calla - well, in the past I could always talk to my h if I had a difficult day. now he doesn't care or want to know about it. It seems like it is all about him these days.

9:05 PM [MarySarah] doveseyes,;01 from Jim I pray your H sees those ways your M can be better. Our life was pretty good & every time my H said if I get/have this one thing, or do this one time I'll be happy, yet no matter what he desired & received, it wasn't enough. I could never change enough to please my H & eventually if I tried to just be me & the girl he fell in love with, the real person I was around everyone else, that wasn't enough either.

9:05 PM [Bluesky] hepsy that’s what it is all about!

9:06 PM [plumcrazy] Jim--I decide I am very isolated here. I have no family near and no one to support me here that isn’t online So decide to take this step Before I destroy this marriage for good

9:06 PM [mariposa] doveseyes: How old are your children?

9:06 PM [hepsy] bluesky - you doing ok?

9:06 PM [faithful] doveseyes I know what you mean I am a very strong will women and little by little I am learning to let go of that. I get impatient with God and then he reminds me To Be Still and Know that He is God.

9:06 PM [calla] hepsy - I know what you mean. My H has gotten better about asking about my day, particularly if he senses it wasn't good, but I don't think he cares that much, or at least doesn't act like it. Sad. I miss my best friend.

9:07 PM [Bluesky] hepsy hanging in there, very fragile emotions today.

9:07 PM [plumcrazy] ((((((Bluesky))))))

9:07 PM [dogwood] Plumcrazy--on the same boat here for me

9:07 PM [hepsy] bluesky - I am sorry... I have been praying for you...

9:07 PM [MarySarah] Jim 03 the prayer part is the easier part. Our entire marriage was about his needs, he isn't one to be concerned about what anyone else needs, it's pretty much all about him & he's admitted such in saying how he always gets what he wants. I wish I could meet any of his needs, but doesn't he need to know what he really needs & diff btw needs & wants. Ultimately he needs the Lord

9:07 PM [Bluesky] plumcrazy thanks I need them. I am away from family too.

9:07 PM Jim: Thanks everyone for being in the chat room today. If you got lost during the chat process, check back later to find the edited chat dialogue posted in the archives, there you can read it at your own pace. It's been fun talking with you today. We, at Midlife Dimensions, will remember you and your marriages in prayer throughout the week. Warmly in Christ, Jim. James 4:8, Draw near to God and He will draw near to you.

9:08 PM [Bluesky] hepsy thanks, it means a lot.

9:08 PM [hepsy] calla - I miss my best friend too...:(

9:08 PM [dogwood] Good night and thanks everyone. keep praying for all

9:08 PM [calla] hepsy - it took me a long time to get used to not being able to go to him but now I think of others to talk to before him. so sad

9:08 PM [doveseyes] faithful06..little by little...that's right...to get to the place where I have no will of my own..only his will..the lady who is mentoring me..who saw a miracle in her marriage after years and years of infidelity with her h who is a pastor..that is her advice to me..I try to read the Gethsemane passages everyday..

9:09 PM [lisak] I'm back now, as myself, to talk about the retreat. So if you have questions, let's get started. Thanks.

9:09 PM [hepsy] calla - tell me about it.. instead of looking forward to talking to my h, I am looking forward to coming to chat!! I am getting closer to my chat friends, than my h..

9:09 PM [Bluesky] all, wouldn't it be awesome to put all of our h (sorry guys) in a house to live tog to what they are like for us

9:09 PM [MarySarah] Jim 05 to Dogwood So my H said he'd give everything up to be happy, now after signing custody of younger 2 he's taking me to court to take middle child(son ) from me but not dtr the oldest he alienated from me b4 he left he also lies about money. etc a lot of deceit how can they think we are unfair?

9:10 PM [faithful] Lisa how are we getting to the church from the hotel.

9:10 PM [doveseyes] Lisa...so when I arrive..I take a shuttle to the hotel..correct?..and what are some sightseeing plans?

9:10 PM [calla] hepsy - hopefully someday soon we will have our best friends back.

9:10 PM [hepsy] bluesky - ha! they would probably treat each other better.. unfortunately.

9:10 PM [swan] Lisa - I saw that you all are going to the Rock Church - awesome services!

9:10 PM [mariposa] Goodnight all. Sweet dreams.

9:10 PM [plumcrazy] Dove--what day and time do you arrive?

9:10 PM [lisak] faithful: the hotel has a shuttle to drive you to the church, or we have people driving to the retreat, that can drive people to the church.

9:11 PM [hepsy] calla - I pray that every day.. and I do think of you a lot - praying that your h will stop sleeping in the basement!

9:11 PM [lisak] doveseyes at :10 - I’m going to look over everyone's arrival times and see what I can do to get everyone picked up and driven to the hotel.

9:11 PM [doveseyes] plumcrazy..Friday..around 2pm I believe

9:12 PM [MarySarah] Doveseyes 07 Jim is right about that, but also know these men are deceived & satan is accuser of brethren & a liar sometimes our H's see us very negatively & differently than we are & how rest people who know us do. Don't listen to everything H says but try to find grain of truth & discern the outright lies as lies. Don't receive the negative garbage into your brain at all

9:12 PM [doveseyes] Lisa..yea...that's awesome...could we also schedule a quick target run for water, etc...

9:12 PM [plumcrazy] Dove--Do you want to make the reservation?

9:12 PM [doveseyes] marysarah12..thx..wow..great advice

9:13 PM [MarySarah] Lisa K how many people are you guys expecting this year @ retreat?

9:13 PM [calla] hepsy - thanks. Praying that all of our MLCers pull through! Church was really good yesterday - the pastor made a point of saying how God can take something really negative and make something really good out of it. I needed that reminder. Just maybe someday we will be grateful for all of this . . . hard to imagine

9:13 PM [doveseyes] I can...

9:13 PM [lisak] swan at :10 - The Rock Community Church in Yorba Linda, Pastor John Werhas. (There's a lot of other Rocks.......one nearby in Orange or Santa Ana I think, just called The Rock. And when we did the retreat in San Diego, we visited The Rock church in San Diego.) ALL: YOU CAN GO TO OUR CHURCH WEBSITE TO GET AN IDEA OF IT'S LOCATION - JUST A FEW MINUTES FROM THE HOTEL. NEAR GOOD RESTAURANTS AND FAST FOOD. YOU CAN LISTEN TO MY PASTOR'S SERMONS IF YOU'D LIKE. :O)

9:14 PM [lisak] doveseyes at :12, yes - either the hotel shuttle can take you to a grocery, or Target. Or we can get a group together and drive over.

9:14 PM [doveseyes] Lisa...should I book my room for only Fri. and sat night...and plan on sharing a room with someone on Sunday night?

9:15 PM [swan] lisak — When I lived in Southern California, I went to the one in San Diego and then another time to the one in Yorba Linda, both were really great. I loved the praise music, the entire spirit of the church was upbeat, the present of God was definitely there and I just felt it like warm arms wrapped around me. We were trying to develop a Saturday evening church that would appeal to the younger group, so a group of us did some church hopping to get ideas.

9:15 PM [hepsy] calla - well, Charles Stanley says look at trials and ask God what it is that He is trying to teach you.. That is what I am trying to do.

9:15 PM [Bluesky] hepsy that’s good, what do you think it is?

9:15 PM [MarySarah] doveseyes 13 thanks I lived with a lot negativity before H left & more after verbal abuse is never ok, it's hard to see if you were in an emotionally abusive situation & to stop receiving those same lies as truth. Took me a long time to say I was in an abusive marriage, & to also see how insecure & damaged my own H was & his mom esp. before him. It is strictly a spiritual battle now!

9:16 PM [lisak] MarySarah at :13, We have about 18 - 20 from the Chat Room (well, including their guests too). Working on getting more there still. Plus we will have some "outsiders" that are in similar situations joining us for various sessions to listen to the Conway’s or the Farrels. But there will be plenty of session time where it's just our group so we can talk and pray together.

9:16 PM [plumcrazy] MarySarah --Are you coming to retreat?

9:16 PM [calla] hepsy - That is good to remember too. I know I have made a lot of changes in myself and have grown so much already.

9:17 PM [lisak] doveseyes at :14, check with swan on that. She is our office assistant, and trying to organize roommates. It's a tough job! She has a hard time getting people to respond and keep her informed.

9:17 PM [MarySarah] LisaK that's good, it's good to teach more people about this painful process

9:17 PM [doveseyes] marysarah..you are doing right..mine was abusive...verbally. It got to the place he didn't want to be seen with me..major rejection.

9:17 PM [doveseyes] ok. How do I contact her

9:17 PM [MarySarah] Plum 17 No, too far. I have sooo much to do here still being alone here

9:18 PM [doveseyes] Lisa..what are some potential options for sightseeing

9:18 PM [hepsy] bluesky- well, I am learning to depend totally on God (something I didn't always do before), to trust him in ALL things, (didn't do that either!) . I am sure there is more to learn, just don't know what it is yet.

9:18 PM [plumcrazy] MarySarah--I will miss you this yr!

9:18 PM [lisak] doveseyes at :17, just write to us at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. .

9:18 PM [doveseyes] ok..I will...

9:18 PM [Bluesky] hepsy I would totally agree. I am fighting doubt and what did I do wrong still after all this time.

9:19 PM [faithful] doveseyes just email me with the details about the room I have to go. Take care and God bless.

9:19 PM [lisak] doveseyes at :18 - there's all sorts of places to see. Just depends on what available time everyone has. Also let swan and I know that you want to site-see and when, so we can add you to the list and start getting a count of people that want to do something.

9:20 PM [doveseyes] ok..I will

9:20 PM [hepsy] bluesky - I kept running into that scripture "Trust in the Lord with ALL your heart and ALL your mind...and I knew it was from the Lord. I was

9:20 PM [doveseyes] I have no idea...any experts in the area we can ask

9:20 PM [plumcrazy] Swan--Someone told me that they think that I do so much for others because I wish SOMEONE would do the same for me. I think that friend is right. What do you think?

9:21 PM [MarySarah] Doveseyes Same here, now if I stand strong, without letting him push my buttons or making me feel crushed, he gets cocky & cynical or sarcastic & even accuses me of showing of in front of people. Like if he can't come back with a reasonable excuse or logical answer, he thinks I'm showing off & acting tough...funny thing...it's always when we are on ph & I am here in our house ALONE! Abusers hate it when they can no longer abuse us , even if we stay calm & stop defending ourselves to them

9:21 PM [Bluesky] doveseyes can I suggest to you to go to Google and the area the retreat is in and ask for place of interest

9:22 PM [hepsy] bluesky - there's a song on KSBJ Christian radio called "no matter what" by Kerrie Roberts - good song - about trusting no matter what!

9:22 PM [swan] plumcrazy - some people are just Martha's and others are Mary's, you my dear lady are a Martha. There honestly isn't a dissected reason for why we do everything, sometimes we just do. Personally, you might want to not talk to these friends so much, they seem to find something wrong with just about everything you do and are. Sometimes we offer TMI (too much information), when it isn’t really required. Not to mention that the more our friends know about what our husbands are doing and saying, the harder it might be for our husbands to come back home in fear of being judged by these friends.

9:22 PM [plumcrazy] Swan--Friend says I need to stop defending myself to others and tell them they are wrong when they treat me badly

9:23 PM [hepsy] all - gotta go night night! take care and sleep well. and if you are sleeping alone, remember, God is with you, so you really aren't alone..

9:23 PM [Bluesky] hepsy thanks, I will look it up.

9:23 PM [doveseyes] I will do that

9:24 PM [hepsy] lisak- thanks.. that is the correct scripture. PTL!!! Nite.

9:24 PM [swan] doveseyes - you can Google attractions/entertainment Yorba Linda and it will give you an idea of things there are to do, or spread out and Google Southern California.

9:24 PM [doveseyes] Lisa..how far from the ocean will we be

9:25 PM [lisak] Lord, help us in our decision-making. Let us not lean not upon our own understanding, but in all our ways acknowledge you. Lord, help us to see beyond our circumstances into your presence, and help us to see our situations the way that you do — full of possibilities. Thank you for your love and understanding. In Jesus' Name, Amen.

9:25 PM [lisak] doveseyes at :24, approx. 30 minutes.

9:25 PM [plumcrazy] LISA--I am going to send you an email. Please give your honest opinion about what I send

9:26 PM [plumcrazy] AMEN

9:26 PM [doveseyes] well thx again..good night

9:26 PM [lisak] plumcrazy at :26.............but what if I only want to be partially honest?? (just kidding) OK -I'll watch for it.

9:27 PM [MarySarah] Plum swan is right in some people are more Martha than Mary both have pluses & minuses, yet God says we are all to cease striving & know He is God. Hospitality(Martha) is great, but business isn't always good. Being calm & relaxed is good, but not being lazy.....In all things, we need balance. It's great if you can multitask & get lots done, but sometimes we can stress too much & over stretch & eventually something always gives. So take time to breathe & know & enjoy Plum for the great woman you are!!!!!!!!!!! then you can keep giving all you want to give. Let God recharge your battery, b/c nobody else will

9:28 PM [plumcrazy] goodnight LISA Take care thanks for all your help

9:28 PM [MarySarah] Plum earlier, I meant to say I will miss you too this year!

9:28 PM [Bluesky] goodnight

9:28 PM [MarySarah] Blue, are you feeling better?

9:28 PM [lisak] ALL: Goodnight everyone. Thanks for being here. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE pray daily for the people traveling to the retreat. Satan will be working hard to keep them from coming. They need your prayers to keep them safe, and to make it to the retreat!!! Thanks.

9:28 PM [plumcrazy] Marysarah--love you!!!!

9:28 PM [MarySarah] Good night sisters & God Bless!

9:28 PM [lisak] swan - thanks for all your help with the retreat! You're the best!

9:28 PM [MarySarah] Plum Luv you 2 darling!

9:28 PM [plumcrazy] Goodnite all Take care

9:29 PM [plumcrazy] Yah swan thanks

9:29 PM [lisak] Good night everyone. Logging out.

9:29 PM [plumcrazy] bye

9:29 PM [swan] Goodnight all please join us again on Wednesday

8:54 PM [MarySarah] Jim when a spouse finds ways around consequences, even legal ones & cont to lie in ways that can somehow be justified, but is still wrong, should the LBS cont to be firm with legal actions, etc.... What if no matter how free the Fleeing spouse is, what is the LBS to do when the other cont to try to come back & take more or calls when they are stressed to push our buttons & relieve their stress on us instead of ow? I feel like my H still expects & uses me as his excuses & stress relief, like he won't be content unless I leave the country or die

9:02 PM Jim: MarySarah at :54, basically - don't try to orchestrate consequences, focus on understanding the needs of your mate and increasing the intensity of your prayer for him.

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