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October 04, 2010 / with Jim Conway

8:19 PM [Still] Jim, How can we meet another's needs when they will not come near us, communicate more than one-word syllables, or have any meaningful interaction?

8:24 PM Jim: Still at :19, you don't have to be around someone to meet their needs. For example; if a woman is a controlling perfectionist, that's an issue that can be worked on with dozens of other people, so that when there is a contact there is an obvious difference demonstrated by the woman lack of control.

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You have entered CR#2, Monday Chat with Jim at 6 pm PST.

8:01 PM [swan] Hi hepsy, how are you tonight?

8:02 PM [hepsy] swan- ok. It’s Monday. Still feeling a little off - maybe it’s just hormonal, idk

8:02 PM [hepsy] swan - how are you?

8:03 PM [hepsy] still - hey there.

8:03 PM [hepsy] bluesky - hi!

8:03 PM [Still] Hepsy, Hi. How are you tonight?

8:03 PM [Bluesky] Hi Hepsy, all,

8:03 PM [swan] hepsy - I am doing good, enjoying the crisp fall weather here and the trees starting to change colors.

8:03 PM [hepsy] still - have been a little emotional the last two days. You?

8:03 PM [Still] Hi, everyone.

8:04 PM [Still] Hepsy, something specific going on?

8:04 PM [hepsy] swan - I missed the season changes. Living in Texas it is either hot or hotter! Ha!

8:04 PM [plumcrazy] Hello Everyone

8:04 PM [Still] Hi Plum.

8:04 PM [swan] hepsy - I missed the seasons the years I lived in So. Cal, but really enjoy them again now that I live in the Midwest.

8:04 PM [hepsy] Still - no, the same. I do well for awhile, then suddenly everything gets to me - don't know if it is hormones causing or just life!

8:05 PM [Bluesky] all, we actually had some rain briefly today, brought it down to the 90's.

8:05 PM [plumcrazy] swan ---Will Jim be here tonight?

8:06 PM Jim: TO ALL: and Plum at :05, Yes - I’m here tonight - what would everyone like to talk about? (Lisa and I were just fidgeting with some settings and forgot to say hi).

8:05 PM [hepsy] still - we were talking last night about blackberries. The phone, that is. Does your h have one?

8:05 PM [Still] Hepsy, It will get better. I was on a downer for awhile. My H has been gone all weekend. It gives me the breathing room I need. He will be back tonight.

8:06 PM [swan] plumcrazy - He is supposed to be, so I imagine he will be here soon

8:06 PM [Bluesky] Still, glad you could catch your breath.

8:06 PM [Bluesky] hepsy, when I am down I go to rejoice and read the questions and the restored stories.

8:06 PM [plumcrazy] Swan---Lisa WAS here right?

8:07 PM [plumcrazy] Hello Jim

8:07 PM [Still] Hepsy, No my H doesn't have a Blackberry. He did get his own phone contract shortly after his MLC began. I was adding D23 to my plan as a family plan. She just found out he was not on my plan and started to cry. She said, "Oh, mom. That is just not right."

8:07 PM [plumcrazy] Hello Koko

8:07 PM [hepsy] Still - that is the same then, like having your own. terrible. I don't like it either.

8:07 PM [Still] Hi Koko.

8:07 PM [Bluesky] Still, you have a 23 y/o d? I thought your kids were youngish.

8:08 PM [koko] hello all

8:08 PM [Still] Blue, I have a 23-year-old daughter and 2 10-year-old twins....yep big gap!

8:08 PM [hepsy] Jim - I am still bothered by my h's use of his phone. He sleeps with it and I think he texts on in the bathroom or anytime I leave the room. And I am just supposed to be okay with it?

8:10 PM Jim: hepsy at :08, remember that the cell phone is not the problem. It is that your husband is making a choice to use the phone in a very secretive way. So the real issue is why does he want to keep this info from you and what is it that's missing in his life that he is reaching out for?

8:09 PM [Bluesky] swan, I hope Victorious shows up tonight, I was kind of distraught last night after chat. I think I offended her with an misunderstanding.

8:09 PM [Bluesky] Still, well that explains it, does the 23 y/o live at home?

8:09 PM [Still] Hepsy, he changed his plan when I was going through his phone calls a year or so ago. Said he didn't want to be under a microscope. I have never found an OW, but those kinds of acts really make you wonder.

8:10 PM [hepsy] still - well I think that is not right. Of course if I say that to my h he will say he doesn’t care.

8:10 PM [Still] Blue, no D23 has not lived at home since she was 18. She got married right out of high school and her H was in the marines. He divorced her 3 years later and broke her heart. She has just started college this fall.

8:10 PM [Bluesky] Still, I would agree with your d too. Besides it costs more that way.

8:11 PM [hepsy] Jim - when you say that I feel that you are saying that I am doing something to cause him to want to do that. I am doing everything not to cause him to want to do that.

8:17 PM Jim: hepsy at :11, the important issue now is to understand what his needs are NOW. Perhaps you've seen what I ask other women, but how you are doing in the three areas that midlife men complain about. 1. Midlife Men complain that their wives are naggy, controlling, and often boss them around like children (sometimes men do act like children). 2. Midlife Men complain that their wives are overweight, out of shape, and do not care about physical appearance. Men are very visual, & when their wife looks good to them, that translates that she is interested in sex. A high priority in a man’s life is regular, exciting sex for which he doesn’t have to beg. 3. Midlife Men complain that their wives have not had a new thought since they got married. They complain that their wives are not growing intellectually or in their careers, which makes them very dependent and clingy -- which is often negative to a midlife man. How are you doing in these three areas?

8:12 PM [Still] Blue, it costs about $60 more a month than it would on one plan. I even offered him all passwords. He still felt the need to get his own line. My IC says that it is a control issue...like a teen.

8:12 PM [Bluesky] Still, I would concur that it is a control issue.

8:13 PM [lalachrissie] still my h kept me on his phone plan, but separated our bills into two groups with different password so I could not see his phone activity.

8:13 PM [Bluesky] lalachrissie, welcome back. You came on a good night.

8:13 PM [Still] Lalachrissie, makes you crazy, doesn't it?

8:14 PM [swan] lalachrissie - Please put the name of the person you are directing your comments to, you can easily do this by clicking on their name in the chat, showing in blue. It will make it easier for others to response, especially Jim.

8:14 PM [plumcrazy] JIM I asked H Fri night if I could use his laptop from work as S was on my computer. I found a woman’s pic set as the background for his computer Wasn’t anyone I recognized so I asked H about it. H said Nobody. I said "If it was nobody why can’t you tell me who it is then? H had put some news reporters pic on there before so I expected the same kind of answer. He said "Don’t worry it isn’t anyone from work" Then he said "Why do you want to know so bad" I know I should have dropped it but I was bothered by his answers. Expected him to say "Oh that’s so and so she is on this TV show or movie. Not the weird things he said

8:18 PM Jim: plumcrazy at :14 and :15, It's quite obvious that he's being evasive and he may be attracted to this woman. But again, the focus is trying to understand how you can more adequately meet some of his needs.

8:14 PM [Still] Blue, My IC really believes if there were an OW I would know by now. The phone is really the only thing that bothers me in that regard. He is very accountable to time and place.

8:15 PM [lalachrissie] still- I asked him about it and he said it's something that needs to happen. things need to start separation

8:15 PM jim: Welcome Lalachrissie. I’m Jim Conway, President of Midlife Dimensions. This room is here to encourage you and answer questions you have about your current situation. Important: Do NOT share personal information such as an email address, phone #, home address, or any names. Now, here’s how to join in. 1) Type the name of the person you want to speak to before you type your entry. 2) You’re limited to 250 keystrokes per entry. If your entry is long, then click “chat” to post it and start your next entry with the word “continued”. 3) Use the words “To All” if you have a general entry not directed to one person. 4) If you’d like to contact someone in the room, email or call us at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. or 714-768-1777. We’ll have them contact you to exchange information.

8:15 PM [hepsy] still/bluesky/lalchrissie - I don't have any way to see my h phone bill - it is through work. Plus he made all our regular bills paperless and I have no passwords.

8:15 PM [lalachrissie] Hi Jim- we spoke on the phone recently. thank you

8:19 PM Jim: lalachrissie at :15, Hi and we're glad you're in the chat room tonight.

8:15 PM [koko] sorry, W came up and wanted to talk. communication really seems to be getting better. I hope it continues. Good talks laughing and joking

8:15 PM [Still] swan, I think Lalachrissie was talking to me. "Still" seems like the start of a phrase.

8:15 PM [Bluesky] Still, my kids and I switched to the new iphone, but h didn't switch over. Then again, he is seeking a D. But he sure switched the bill quickly to his new address when the bills used to come here. I knew his password too, not anymore. Whatever!

8:16 PM [plumcrazy] KOKO--PTL!!! Sounds promising

8:16 PM [hepsy] still - same here. My h is accountable - always home at night and weekends. But the phone really bothers me. and the fact that he is secretive about it. Nutter said last night that her h had emotional affair - not physical - that's my concern..

8:17 PM [lalachrissie] all- does anyone know anything about neurofeedback? my c is recommending it as a way to help my h avoid talking, but I don't know very much about it

8:17 PM [koko] Jim, I noticed W wearing wedding rings on more occasions this week. on her day off out shopping alone and all weekend. Together on Sat. on her own on sun

8:19 PM Jim: koko at :17 that seems very positive.

8:18 PM [doveseyes] Jim..good evening..I have a question about sex addiction. Why does sex addiction and mlc run together..or do they?

8:21 PM Jim: doveseyes at :18, not all midlife men have trouble with sexual addictions. However, sexual fantasies are common at midlife as men question if they are still attractive.

8:18 PM [hepsy] still- I was my h's first relationship as well. He hasn't said that to me though.. but then he doesn't talk to me much at all

8:18 PM [Still] Hi Calla,

8:18 PM [hepsy] calla - hello there!

8:18 PM [calla] Hi!

8:19 PM [faithful] Jim I do not know what to do. I email h every week to verify that he is going to be there to pick up the kids when they get off the bus on Mon and also forward email from the boy scouts and he waits to reply until late Sun night like around midnight. I do not know how to deal with it.

8:23 PM Jim: faithful at :19, I think he is being passively aggressive with you. It's probably an indication that he doesn't like to be mothered. I know that you're concerned about the kids. But try not to ask for a reply insuring you that he will pick them up.

8:19 PM [Still] Jim, How can we meet another's needs when they will not come near us, communicate more than one-word syllables, or have any meaningful interaction?

8:24 PM Jim: Still at :19, you don't have to be around someone to meet their needs. For example; if a woman is a controlling perfectionist, that's an issue that can be worked on with dozens of other people, so that when there is a contact there is an obvious difference demonstrated by the woman lack of control.

8:19 PM [doveseyes] Jim..I am also discouraged because my husband has now moved on the other side of town..1 hour away from our home and has no contact with us. He states he is not coming home..and wants a divorce..

8:25 PM Jim: doveseyes at :19, I'm sorry that you are so discouraged. Your husband is probably also discouraged and feels that divorce is the only way out.

8:20 PM [plumcrazy] JIM---The other night H and I were talking about a fundraiser at work. I was asking what kind of food they were selling I didn’t hear what he said so I asked him to repeat it. I said chicken AND what? Then H said "just because I think of her all the time doesn’t mean I am always saying her name." I was like what are you talking about. Then I realized it is this woman named ANNE from his past. He never dated her , wanted to but didn’t think he was good enough.

8:26 PM Jim: plumcrazy at :20, I'm not sure I understand your question??

8:21 PM [hepsy] Jim - I have answered this question to you already and am doing well in all areas. My h simply wants me to leave him alone. The only thing he will accept from me is dinner. I am respectful, keeping things light - there is no sex Jim - he refuses...

8:27 PM Jim: hepsy at :21, I apologize that I'm not able to remember everyone's history. But I encourage you to keep on doing the positive things you were doing and give this process more time.

8:22 PM [doveseyes] Jim at 20..the books I have read appear to line up with the addiction. Do you treat it differently as a W than a mlc?

8:28 PM jim: doveseyes at :22, you can read about sexual addiction on the website, www.sa.org. They suggest the process of healing for both men and women.

8:22 PM [hepsy] still - I couldn't say it any better than that!

8:23 PM [hepsy] calla - how are you tonight?

8:24 PM [calla] hepsy - doing okay. How are you?

8:24 PM [hepsy] still - it is so frustrating! it is simply impossible to have a meaningful relationship by yourself. It is like I am pulling teeth just to get my h to talk to me. He gets agitated.

8:24 PM [hepsy] calla - idk - still struggling between sadness and frustration.

8:24 PM [Bluesky] Lisa, Jim, are you guys happy with the new chat room?

8:29 PM Jim: Bluesky at :24. It seems to be working well, and we are working with the developers of the software on a few more improvements.

8:25 PM [plumcrazy] Jim--We had been getting along better and this comment came from H out of the blue. I told H later that he could of thought that to himself and he should not have said it out loud to me.

8:30 PM Jim: plumcrazy at :25, it's better to not comment on small issues like this - give your husband grace.

8:25 PM [calla] hepsy, so sorry. I know how you feel!

8:25 PM [koko] Jim I feel the emotional intimacy seeming to increase. Do I wait for physical intimacy from her or do I initiate slowly. She will actually get up off a chair by putting her hand on my leg or itching her foot by rubbing it on mine do these seem like signs or coincidence

8:30 PM Jim: koko at :25, follow her lead and just assume that she wants the hugging and snuggling kind of intimacy.

8:25 PM [faithful] The last email him I ask him how he wanted to work it out so the kids would know he was going to be there. Was that good or just leave it alone and let them get on the bus every Mon hoping he will be there.

8:26 PM [faithful] Jim he is actually playing with them and the kids are enjoying seeing being around him again. I am glad for that.

8:31 PM Jim: faithful at :26, it sounds good.

8:26 PM [Still] Jim a :24, I have done everything I know how. I give him space all the time. I never, ever discuss the relationship. I haven't brought up our relationship in well over a year...he did once for speech #3. I have worked on all three areas you recommend.

8:31 PM Jim: Still at :26, remember that midlife crisis transition is like adolescence. There is a process of time for people to work through these things.

8:26 PM [lalachrissie] Jim- what if our contact is so very limited. I get texts about the children. I send emails about the finances, but rarely get responses. other contact has been in therapy with the whole family. he only wants to work on the kids understanding this and nothing else. the kids don't want to see him and he's not pushing it.

8:27 PM [hepsy] Jim - I don't understand what you just said to Still - the example. Can you explain that again?

8:27 PM [plumcrazy] Jim--My time doesn’t match up with yours so I am not sure which of my comments you are referring to

8:28 PM [plumcrazy] JIM--I just wondered why all of the sudden he would say something about her to me when we had been getting along much better Hadn’t talked about her in over a yr

8:29 PM [hepsy] Jim - I am trying.. and I am so grateful for your help and for this chat site. I am working very hard.. It is hard though.. because my fear gets in the way. I am terrified my h will make a bad choice and have an affair.

8:29 PM [doveseyes] Jim at 25 any suggestions about encouraging husband..

8:30 PM [plumcrazy] JIM--Our 22nd anniv is Oct 11th I am wondering if that has anything to do with it, he hasn’t acknowledged the last 2

8:30 PM [faithful] Jim our 27 anniversary is this Friday should I just not mention it or send him a card or something.

8:31 PM [Still] All, just a piece of positive info. On another forum I use, two MLC'ers have started reconnected with their spouses. Yay!

8:31 PM [hepsy] calla - I know you do... such a difficult road, isn't it? I had such a hard time going to sleep last night.. I get like that sometimes.. just grieve myself to sleep...

8:31 PM [Still] oops, "reconnecting".

8:31 PM [wiffe] Hi ALL

8:31 PM [hepsy] still - that’s wonderful..

8:32 PM [wiffe] All-I invited H for dinner tomorrow. Told him we were having Tacos and if he wanted to stay he could. Today he didn’t leave until 530 I got home at 4.

8:32 PM [faithful] Jim h was always passive aggressive do you have any suggestion for me on how to deal with him.

8:34 PM Jim: faithful AT :32, passive aggressive are generally angry at the situation or the other person, make sure you're not bossing him or mothering him.

8:32 PM [Still] Jim, @ 31. I guess I am just so tired of never getting anything positive in return for my constant trying to make things better. It just hurts.

8:35 PM Jim: Still at :32, I'm sorry that you're going thru this kind of pain and I wish that I could tell you that these midlife "teenage" years would soon be over. 8:32 PM [swan] All - seems like many of us have anniversaries in October, our 32nd is tomorrow.

8:32 PM [wiffe] All-I also told him that on Thursday I was taking the girls to the orchard and if he wanted to come he was more than welcome to come. I don’t want to say anything to them yet until Thursday. I want to surprise them. I hope he comes.

8:33 PM [hepsy] swan - how do you feel about that?

8:33 PM [plumcrazy] Jim----Sometimes I feel like that all I do is mess up. Why is it so hard for me to bite my tongue. swan said she thinks it is because I am still very angry and hurt by what H has said to me and done. swan says I don’t because I don’t want to. Cricket says I should talk to you about this and it being self-destructive behavior that I do when H and I get close again

8:35 PM Jim: plumcrazy at :33, swan is a very wise woman - listen to her counsel.

8:33 PM [calla] hepsy, I had insomnia last night too - which is not so uncommon these days. I am just frustrated by the time it takes. I have seen progress and lots of good "little" things for months, and yet my H doesn't seem to be making any strides toward me - other than some tiny little baby steps and even some toddler steps and then he backs off. I just want to yell at him to hurry up already.:) I don't, don't worry.:) I just spend a lot of time praying for him.

8:34 PM [hepsy] calla - remind me - does your h sleep in the basement? I keep getting everyone confused so I am taking notes! lol!

8:34 PM [plumcrazy] Jim--Sorry to overwhelm you

8:35 PM [faithful] Jim I just wanted to know what you think I should do. Our anniversary is Oct 9. Should I mention it or just ignore it.

8:36 PM Jim: faithful at :35, you'll have to follow his lead about the anniversary - he will probably try to ignore it. Remember for any holidays, and special days like b-days and anniversaries, if you cannot be with your mate because of this crisis they're going through, then plan on meeting with some other close friends who can encourage your and support you through this time.

8:35 PM [koko] goodnight all W wants to chat some more I am not turning that down wish me luck

8:35 PM [calla] hepsy - yes he does. I know, it is hard to keep everyone straight! Little by little. Yours sleeps elsewhere in the house too, right?

8:35 PM [wiffe] Good luck KOKO!!!

8:35 PM [plumcrazy] Koko---best of luck!!!!!

8:35 PM [hepsy] calla - it is definitely a lesson on patience, isn't it!

8:35 PM [swan] hepsy - I don't allow anniversaries, birthdays, or holidays to be points of sadness. I simply consider it another day, write something special to my husband in my journal and leave it at that, maybe have a talk with God, but just refuse to allow the enemy to use days to cause me pain and discouragement.

8:36 PM [hepsy] calla - yes, on the sofa. I hate it..

8:36 PM [Still] Jim, I know it is a process. I believe that my H and I will weather this...though he has never given me any indication in over 2 1/2 years. He does still live at home, but he is clear that he does not feel "married".

8:38 PM Jim: Still at :36, I'm glad you know that this is a process and it is positive that he is continuing to live at home.

8:36 PM [calla] hepsy - how long has he been there again?

8:36 PM [plumcrazy] Swan---you are the best!!!! I know you have a special 2x4 for me right?

8:36 PM [hepsy] swan - you are a strong woman..

8:36 PM [lalachrissie] Jim- what if our contact is limited? texts about the kids from him, emails about the finances from me, or only in therapy as a family. he only wants to work on the kids understanding this. kids don't want to see him and he's not pushing it. d12 d9

8:39 PM Jim: lalachrissie at :36, make sure that you continue to explain to the kids that their dad is just going through a very difficult time in his life. Try not to put your kids in the midlife of your marital problems.

8:37 PM [cindy] plumcrazy, I have also thought sometimes that what you do must push him further away.

8:37 PM [hepsy] calla - a little over 2 years. (but it has been 3 years of mlc) I worry sometimes because we have not been intimate in almost 2 years..not my choice of course..

8:38 PM [swan] hepsy - My strength is in God, I allow Him to take on the big battles, some of the small and I rest in His arms, it was the only way I could remove myself from the insanity and have peace and contentment in my life.

8:38 PM [Still] Hepsy, my H and I have not been intimate since March 2009....we haven't even hugged since then. That is incredibly hard, isn't it?

8:38 PM [wiffe] All-Got a question. Today when H arrived I let him in and he wanted to know where the youngest was. I told him still asleep in my (our) bed. WELL he went upstairs and climbed in bed next to her to snuggle (nothing wrong with that). He did let me climb in also and snuggled with me also. That's good right. If your H is gone would they climb in your bed. Does that make sense? There were days in the summer where he couldn’t' look at me let alone think of laying in my bed

8:38 PM [hepsy] swan - I know you are right.. If I didn't know the Lord I would be a total mess right now.

8:39 PM [plumcrazy] Cindy---Maybe I am terrified of getting close to him again and something like this happening again. Don’t think I could make it thru this again

8:39 PM [calla] hepsy - I know exactly how you feel. Mine has been down there almost 19 months now, in crisis more than 2 years, and some nights I just want to SCREAM when he heads downstairs yet again.

8:39 PM [hepsy] still - I know it is the most awful thing.. I grieve so.. it is like a death..

8:40 PM Jim: To all: This is Lisa the office manager. Some of you may have not had enough personal time with Jim, or you have a very private question that you didn’t want to discuss openly in the chat room. If you'd like to schedule a phone counseling session call us at 714-768-1777.

8:40 PM [Still] Hepsy, I asked my H once if I repulsed him. He said no, I just feel nothing for you.

8:40 PM [hepsy] calla - me too.. I want to scream.. I do in my dreams. Come to think of it, maybe that is want started my day out all wrong. I dreamed of my h and I was screaming at him over and over "why are you doing this???"

8:40 PM [doveseyes] Jim..I had asked earlier if a w treats sex addiction different than mlc

8:43 PM Jim: doveseyes at :40, sexual addiction is similar to any other addiction, such as alcohol or drugs. The wife's role is not to cure the problem, but to understand what her husband is struggling with, to pray for him, and to look for opportunities to encourage appropriate help.

8:41 PM [calla] Still, that's awful. It is so painful to deal with.

8:41 PM [cindy] plumcrazy, I thought the same thing once...that I couldn't go through this again...but then I realized I wouldn't have to if I put my focus on being the woman God created me to be and stopped focusing on my husband.

8:41 PM [hepsy] still - I asked my h "is it me?" "am I not attractive to you anymore?" he said it had nothing to do with how I look - he just didn't feel anything for me anymore....

8:41 PM [Still] Calla/Hepsy, My H was the sweetest, kindest man who would never have hurt anyone's feelings, especially mine. Now, he seems to enjoy it.

8:41 PM [lalachrissie] Jim- they know that he is going through a difficult time. they see him being two different people and they are choosing to not want to be hurt by the person that is not their daddy. they have voiced this very openly in our therapy sessions

8:44 PM Jim: lalachrissie at :41, it's difficult for children to see anything other than that your husband is all good, or all bad. Remind them of some of the special times that they've had with him in the past, and encourage them to pray for him as he goes through this painful time in his life.

8:42 PM [calla] hepsy, my dreams have a way of following me into my day too. Sometimes that's good, sometimes not. Oddly, almost all of the dreams I have had lately of my H (which have been increasing) have been "normal" - we are doing things as a family, etc.

8:42 PM [hepsy] still - same here. My mom is shocked at the change.. he was the most kindest, sweetest man you could ever know.. now he is almost evil and uses profanity (never before!!) it is just terrible..

8:43 PM [doveseyes] cindy at 40..what have you found that works to get your focus off h and onto God?

8:43 PM [calla] Still, my H was like that too. He wouldn't have ever purposefully hurt me and was so sweet and made me feel so good about myself. Now . . .uggh. It is hard to believe he can let this hurt go on and on.

8:43 PM [Bluesky] lalachrissie: just curious, what does the c say to the kids about that?

8:44 PM [hepsy] calla - perhaps that is a good thing - that you are dreaming nice dreams - maybe that means you are dealing with this much better than you think.

8:44 PM [mariposa] hello all. Just got back from cooking class. We learned to make tortillas. Yum Yum.

8:44 PM [Still] Hepsy/Calla, These are the kinds of things that show me that he is in crisis. Though the rest of the world is so angry with him. It has gone on so long that my family is just so frustrated. I don't vent to any of them, but they hear how he speaks to me and treats me.

8:44 PM [doveseyes] Jim at 42..he has been gone a year. In the first months of the separation, he "attempted" to get help..but couldn't stop. Now he is cut off from everyone..family, friends, etc..

8:47 PM Jim: doveseyes at :44, I'm glad he tried to get some help. Many people are discouraged when they are not instantaneously cured. If you have opportunities, encourage him that he is a good person and that you're proud of him that he is trying to solve some of the things that bother him.

8:44 PM [calla] Still and hepsy - I am sloooowly seeing my H morph back into the man I knew, though again still not directed so much toward me but he is way kinder again and hasn't been mean for months. I thank God for all the little improvements - need to remember those instead of concentrating on the negative!

8:44 PM [lalachrissie] bluesky- he encourages them not to keep their feeling inside. they write in journals and draw pictures or write letters

8:45 PM [calla] hepsy - maybe but then I wake up to reality. Uggh.

8:45 PM [doveseyes] Jim at 42...truthfully we are all waiting for him to crash and decide he has a problem and he needs help.

8:45 PM [Still] Calla/Hepsy, I thank God every morning that he is still here. I know we are fortunate, particularly for our children to have them in the home, but it has its own set of extreme difficulties.

8:46 PM [calla] Still - I agree about knowing that my H is in crisis because of the difference now.

8:46 PM [hepsy] calla - ha! yeah, that can be hard too - I don't have many good dreams but when I do have one of h then wake up it can be very sobering...

8:46 PM [Bluesky] lalachrissie that’s awesome, it sounds like they do speak up.

8:46 PM [Still] Calla, I am so glad that he is showing positive changes. That must be so encouraging.

8:47 PM [cindy] doveseyes, it was when I truly let my husband go and truly wanted to make the necessary changes in me. I was really pathetic in the beginning and desperately wanted him back. It wasn't easy letting him go and giving him to God because I tend to be a little controlling and thinking I can fix things. I made mistakes along the way but I knew I didn't give him a reason to leave and I focused on God.

8:48 PM Jim: cindy at :47, thanks for sharing that with doveseyes - you're right on target.

8:47 PM [calla] Still at :45 - I am thankful too. At least my kids have some sort of normalcy and daddy is around and so maybe they won't feel the effects of the crisis like they might, though he did pretty much ignore them totally for a few months.

8:47 PM [Still] Calla/Hepsy, I have many dreams of my H apologizing to me and just holding me.

8:47 PM [hepsy] still/calla - I was talking to my d about that today.. she and her boyfriend broke up and she has been doing better because she has no contact with him. It is so much harder to live under the same roof and have this kind of relationship.

8:47 PM [calla] Still, it is encouraging to see the positives but then frustrating when he pulls back yet again.

8:47 PM [doveseyes] Jim..it has been over a year since he tried to get help..he has gone full steam into his addiction.

8:51 PM Jim: doveseyes at :47, I have worked quite a bit of time with addicts and sometimes they have to get worse before they can get better. It's one of the most difficult things to tell an addict that you want to be their friend but it looks like they're choosing to go deeper into their addiction - and you will be there when they get ready to face the addiction.

8:47 PM [lalachrissie] bluesky- my d12 actually told him last session that she loves him but she has to let go of him because she can no longer let his actions affect her emotions

8:48 PM [hepsy] still - that could happen! we should pray with expectation!

8:48 PM [mariposa] doveseyes: I believe my H suffers from both sexual addiction and MLC. Very difficult to deal with both.

8:48 PM [doveseyes] cindy at 46..how long was your H gone

8:48 PM [lalachrissie] all- I know I asked this once but does anyone know anything about neurofeedback?

8:49 PM [Bluesky] lalachrissie wow, so wise at such a young age. You must be proud.

8:49 PM [Still] Hepsy, In each of my dreams, he is so broken and in such pain. He asks for forgiveness and just breaks down. I cry with him. It is in different locations, but almost always the same scenario.

8:49 PM [calla] Still - hoping your dreams come true soon!!

8:49 PM [doveseyes] mariposa at 47..amen to that. It is a nightmare..the sad thing is my kids have lost their innocence through this..especially my 15 year old d

8:49 PM [lalachrissie] bluesky- I am, I wish I could do what she's done.

8:50 PM [plumcrazy] JIM I talked to H recently and he was kind of snotty to me . I asked him if he ever felt bad about any of the nasty things he said to me. HE said that he was sorry for the inappropriate things he said to me. HE never showed any remorse or apologized before. I thanked him for the apology. But then he said "My saying those things show what a loser I am"

8:52 PM Jim: plumcrazy at :50, your comment shows the confusion that your husband is going through. On the one hand, he is angry at you and says nasty things, but later he feels sorry and calls himself looser.

8:50 PM [hepsy] still - wow...isn't that interesting how each of us process differently. I am still screaming in my dreams.. I hope I can have a dream like yours.

8:50 PM [cindy] doveseyes, he's been gone almost 10 years. He married someone else and is now divorced from her. He obviously didn't find what he was looking for. I know that God is dealing with him as He does with all of us when we live in disobedience.

8:50 PM [Still] Calla, Thank you. It is what I pray for the most. That and that this time period in my children's lives will not negatively affect them, but make them realize the strength of loving another person.

8:50 PM [Still] Calla, Thank you. It is what I pray for the most. That and that this time period in my children's lives will not negatively affect them, but make them realize the strength of loving another person.

8:51 PM [doveseyes] 49..cindy..did you remarry?

8:51 PM [plumcrazy] JIM--I told H that I KNOW he is a caring man. I told him I loved him and it broke my heart that he feels so bad about himself. I told him I wished he could see himself the way his family does.

8:53 PM Jim: plumcrazy at :51, you said exactly the right thing.

8:51 PM [cindy] Jim, thanks....it's so true. I learned an awful lot from you over the years. : )

8:53 PM Jim: cindy at :51, you're a good woman and we have all learned a lot from you over the years too.

8:51 PM [calla] Still, I pray that too for my kids but need to more I think. I am so worried how this will affect them, if my S will walk out on his family, if my D will always assume she is not good enough, and that she can expect a man to walk out on her. I need to just keep praying for them.

8:52 PM [mariposa] Jim: If they can agree to get help for the sexual addiction does that help to move them out of MLC quicker?

8:54 PM Jim: mariposa at :52, remember that the sexual addiction is only 1 part of midlife crisis - they still have to face other issues - but getting clean from sexual addiction will make it easier for them to face the other issues.

8:52 PM [hepsy] still/calla - my d and s are in college - but this has been hard on them.. they both really looked up and respected their dad. My son told me recently he has no respect at all anymore. that made me sad..

8:52 PM [doveseyes] 50 Jim..the sad part is he makes incredible money and can feed his addiction at an expensive level.... in your experience...what usually causes a man to get help and turn from his addiction

8:56 PM Jim: doveseyes at :52 and :53, I'm sorry that he is being sucked in to addiction, and men will usually get help when something bad happens to them - being arrested, being caught by a family member, etc etc.

8:53 PM [cindy] plumcrazy, my thoughts are to stop pointing out the awful things he says to you and let God convict him. I think it only makes him feel worse when you do it.

8:53 PM [calla] hepsy, that is sad. My sweet, easygoing S who is 9 has started lashing out at me on occasion. I don't take it personally, but I can't figure out if he is struggling with things or it is just normal childhood behavior.

8:53 PM [MarySarah] Jim Do men with poor attachment since early childhood & those with abandonment issues have harder time coming back out of MLC than others? If the issues are from further back in the childhood/infancy periods, are they worse to deal with & heal from?

8:57 PM Jim: MarySarah at :53, most people going through life transitions are dealing with issues that were not resolved in earlier stages of their lives.

8:54 PM [hepsy] calla - my daughter, in light of her recent breakup was saying "all men are terrible" etc.. I knew she was feeling it extra because of things with her dad.

8:54 PM [cindy] doveseyes... no I haven't remarried.

8:54 PM [Still] Calla, My S10 has been mirroring his dad's behavior towards me. Then he feels awful and just clings to me. It is so hard. It hurts me to the core.

8:54 PM [mariposa] Jim: My H asked for forgiveness and prayers of the church yesterday. He said that was the easy part but coming home is becoming the hardest thing he has ever done. I believe that is because of his sexual addiction.

8:58 PM Jim: mariposa at :54, wow - I'm so proud of your husband - give him lots of affirmation and keep assuring him that you're proud of him and that really is a "stand up guy" and wants to be a better man.

8:55 PM [cindy] Jim, thank you.

8:55 PM [plumcrazy] Cindy---I have not said anything to H about the awful things he said to me except once before. A few months ago. We were just talking and I decided it might be a good time to ask. I don’t want to make him feel worse he says he hates himself . Don’t want to add to that

8:56 PM [calla] hepsy - that is what I am worried about. They are young now but knowing that their dad walked out (though not literally) on their mom. Why wasn't she good enough and are they good enough?

8:56 PM [mariposa] Jim: He is not even close to coming home yet but I believe that taking it before the church was a very good step.

8:59 PM Jim: mariposa at :56, asking for help before the church is an extremely positive step.

8:56 PM [Still] Mariposa, that sounds like a really amazing step for your H.

8:56 PM [hepsy] calla - I am sorry to hear that.. It could be either or both.. you never know. During the beginning of mlc, my s once blamed me - I think because I was provoking arguments - he got really upset.

8:56 PM [calla] Still - it is so hard to see our kids like that. And they do mimic what they see.

8:57 PM [calla] Okay, got to go. H is home and I need to check in on him. See you later!

8:57 PM [hepsy] calla - night!

8:57 PM [calla] Hepsy - I agree, could be either MLC or childhood. As long as he is not acting out at school I am not too worried.

8:57 PM [calla] Nite!

8:57 PM [doveseyes] 55 Jim..he has been caught by his whole family..especially his mom..and it hasn't been enough...wow..it will be interesting

8:59 PM Jim: doveseyes at :57, sounds as if he needs to get farther down into the slime before he is ready to get healed.

8:57 PM [MarySarah] Jim My H has stuck with talking to a few people in our community at kids' events that he knows but wasn't close to, it seems he is looking for approval on other hand he lately started sitting with people we were/are closer to esp. neighbors & such. He & I also had a NICE/NORMAL conversation after our son's game (mostly about our son & then about his new truck, etc...we laughed & he has been netter about getting support checks to me) Is that anything? any reconnecting? The neighbors he's been talking to were very supportive of me after he left

9:00 PM Jim: MarySarah at :57, I'm glad that your husband is talking to people - that's sometimes is one of the early steps in a man working his way back into the family.

8:57 PM [Still] Calla, I struggle with all of this, especially where my kid are concerned. Our oldest grew up in a very secure home with no problems....the twins are getting a very different environment.

8:57 PM [Still] Calla, bye.

8:58 PM [cindy] Good night everyone. Have a blessed week!

8:58 PM [hepsy] still - I guess it is up to us to be the strong influences and keep on praying..

8:58 PM [plumcrazy] Cindy--I was beginning to think H was completely lost and had no remorse for his actions. He told me he didn’t care about me at all. I was beginning to believe that

8:58 PM [Still] Hepsy, Prayer is the only tool I really have. Nothing else has worked, that is for sure.

8:59 PM [mariposa] Jim: I texted him afterwards that I admired him for his courage.

8:59 PM [hepsy] still - I admit in early mlc I made a lot of mistakes.. didn't even know about this site. But I have made a lot of changes. I think this is helping my kids.

8:59 PM [Bluesky] Still that is how I feel too, and guess what, it is a lot easier than the other stuff.

9:00 PM [mariposa] Jim: I was thrilled. I told him that God was refining us and the fire was hot but that the silver will be pure when He is finished.

9:01 PM Jim: mariposa at :00, I'm proud of you, you're doing a great job of affirming him. I'll be glad to hear more about the restoration of your marriage.

9:00 PM [Still] Hepsy, I'm glad. I made mistakes initially, too. Mostly my head just spun with what was happening. I had no control at all....just watching my life unravel like I was behind plate glass....very surreal.

9:00 PM [Still] Blue, very true.

9:00 PM [MarySarah] Jim - I realize t=our dear Hs almost always have old wounds, I guess what I am getting at is if my H didn't really attach to me as he always stays on the surface with all relationships & can easily walk away, & attached to me b/c he needed me more than chose me & now he seems very enmeshed & invested with ow will it be harder for him to leave ow & come back? Make sense?

9:02 PM Jim: MarySarah at :00, he may need to work through his guilt related to the other woman before he can disconnect from her.

9:00 PM [hepsy] still - absolutely! I felt like the rug had been pulled out from underneath and I was just grabbing at whatever I could get my hands on! Terrible. I am so glad I am not doing that anymore..

:01 PM [doveseyes] 59 Jim..I can't imagine how lower..but in this new life he created..he is surrounded by men and women with the same standards he has..

9:01 PM [plumcrazy] Cindy--I complement H all the time and affirm him. H seems to hate it though. Doesn’t like it when I do it. but I am not going to stop!!!

9:02 PM [Still] Hepsy, Yep. Now I wake up each morning and wonder if this will be the day that my H will feel differently toward me. Is this the day he will see me as an asset to his life and not a burden? Is this the day he will remember his love for me? That kind of stuff.

9:02 PM [MarySarah] Jim - thank you! That's kind of what I thought, but my heart can't take getting too worked up over those small things. I am trying to be joyous for them without hinging everything on those moments so as to "guard my heart"

9:02 PM [hepsy] still - I understand that feeling... How can I pray for you?

9:03 PM Jim: Thanks everyone for being in the chat room today. If you got lost during the chat process, check back later to find the edited chat dialogue posted in the archives, there you can read it at your own pace. It's been fun talking with you today. We, at Midlife Dimensions, will remember you and your marriages in prayer throughout the week. Warmly in Christ, Jim. James 4:8, Draw near to God and He will draw near to you.

9:03 PM [mariposa] Jim: Thank you. I pray that restoration is near.

9:03 PM [Still] Hepsy, Please pray for strength and endurance for me. Please pray for my children to be protected from unnecessary pain. How can I pray for you.

9:04 PM [MarySarah] So Jim, this ow is very experienced at investing men & quickly, so besides the commonalities of our kids how else can I connect with him?

9:04 PM lisak: Hi everyone - I'm back as myself and ready to take on any Chat Room Retreat questions that you may have.

9:05 PM [doveseyes] do you coordinate people coming as far as room sharing..car sharing..etc

9:05 PM [plumcrazy] Hey Lisa-- Have you decided on the hotel?

9:05 PM [hepsy] still - pray for me also to have strength and endurance - and that I would not be fearful and obsess about who he is texting on the phone...

9:05 PM [Still] Hepsy, you got it! Have a good night.

9:05 PM [Bluesky] MarySarah I am kind of feeling lately that my wasn't attached to me either. Now I don't have all the stuff you deal with, but I wonder about it. My h is an engineer and very black and white.

9:05 PM [hepsy] still - you too!

9:06 PM [plumcrazy] Bluesky--What is it about the engineer types being like that?

9:06 PM lisak: plumcrazy @ 05. Wellllllllll, yes and no. Jim and I need to discuss the option some more in the morning. I need you all to hang in there a couple more days. Don't worry - there will be a hotel. :o)

9:07 PM [plumcrazy] Lisa ok

9:08 PM [mariposa] hepsy: I will pray for you about the texting thing. That has been a huge problem in my life so I understand your pain.

9:08 PM lisak: ALL - in the meantime, make your arrangements to get to the retreat. We will be in between the ONT (Ontario, CA) airport and the SNA (Santa Ana, CA) airport. SNA is a little closer to the location. Email me at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. to let me know if you plan to attend so I can get you on the list.

9:08 PM [swan] lisak - knowing the hotel isn't really that vital to the group at this point, MLD makes the reservations, so it isn't like they won't have a room. They just need to take care of their travel, the dates are already known, so you still have time, don't stress it.

9:08 PM [plumcrazy] Lisa--Someone told me that Southwest airlines should have very cheap fares right now because of them merging with another airline'

9:08 PM [MarySarah] swan did you see my comments to Jim @ 1000 & 10:02 & 10:04? What other ways beside just kids can we connect with H Mine was sooo independent & even when home sometimes the more I tried to connect, the more he pulled away. Very much a lone wolf kind of guy, But he is my beloved lone wolf & I wouldn't try to change him, but I admit the brief moments of connection are so sweet, but too short, too few & far between & painful after they drive away Any ideas?

9:09 PM lisak: plumcrazy at :08, wow - great. Would you be able to cover your travel out?

9:09 PM [swan] MarySarah - Not really, when Jim is in the room is usually full and about the only thing I have time for is cutting and pasting chat so none is lost and can be posted in the archives later tonight. Sorry, I will read them when I edit chat.

9:10 PM [plumcrazy] Lisa--Sadly NO I went thru my savings this summer when I was out of work and H's pay was cut $6 an hr

9:11 PM [plumcrazy] Lisa--Did some checking and the cheapest roundtrip tickets I found thru them was about $400

9:11 PM [swan] MarySarah - sometimes we can begin to do things they would enjoy and them seeing us doing them makes them want to join us, it shows that we are interested in what they like and don't insist on everything being our way only.

9:12 PM [dogwood] Lisa--I will attend and driving. have never been to either of these two airports. will be happy to share room with one person--if dove is interested I can share with her.

9:12 PM [MarySarah] Blue - All I can say is I know my H has many emotional gaps in his development & MANY painful issues, prob personality issues, so I lately have try switch gears & say even though psychology , etc...can give me some insight that no matter how bad things seem we are psychological & emotional beings that God made us that way & satan knows how to use all those things against us. God though changed a murderer to a great witness for Him in Paul. I am sure Saul had MANY issues, now I try lean less on my understanding & remember NOTHING is impossible with God but their lack attachment is painful I am sorry it's so hard for you too. God WILL work in them & save & restore!

9:12 PM [swan] lisak - If anyone contacts you and if southwest/transair is possible for them, check those airlines, they just merged last week and that usually means discounted rates for a few months.

9:13 PM [doveseyes] I am open..still don't know if money is going to be there..my h has tons of airline miles..but he is using them to take his friends on awesome trips...

9:13 PM [plumcrazy] All ---Please say prayers for my family friend 15yr old boy with brain tumor in ICU Will get test results soon

9:13 PM [plumcrazy] ALL--They weren’t able to get it all out and his surgeon is a specialist

9:13 PM [Bluesky] swan, all, United and Continental just joined as well, though they will still be operating separately

9:14 PM [dogwood] doveseyes--no hurry, just let me know when you can.

9:14 PM lisak: dogwood - that's great. You're driving to the retreat?

9:14 PM [swan] Bluesky - have you noticed any discounted fares with them? If they are still operating separately would they offer lower incentive fares.

9:14 PM [doveseyes] good night

9:15 PM [MarySarah] swan - so even if I would generally have wanted to only do something to be with him, perhaps if we get into those same things on our own, they take notice? I wondered if that seemed manipulative to them or competitive with the ow. Although my H has made comments about me riding my bike now, ( Not that it's something I really like though)

9:15 PM [plumcrazy] Swan--Southwest has some GREAT prices right now

9:15 PM [Bluesky] swan, sorry to say I haven't. I just got an email from them saying what they were doing.

9:15 PM [MarySarah] swan although he did seem to notice I decided to keep hunting after he left!

9:16 PM [swan] MarySarah - YES, so things that you would enjoy that they would enjoy, doing things just to be able to spend time with them is often considered phony and manipulative by a MLCer.

9:16 PM [MarySarah] Blue how are things with dtr? any more connection

9:17 PM [Bluesky] dogwood, of course you can do it, you will be so proud of yourself. You might also borrow a friends GPS if needed. I love mine.

9:17 PM [swan] lisak - @ 16 Done!

9:17 PM [plumcrazy] All---ALSO can we pray for my H and his feelings of hopelessness right now. That God shows him he is loved and a valuable person, That he tries to climb out of this depression

9:18 PM [dogwood] Swan-- I agree with your comments here. however, all the books suggest us to do so. what is the balance point?

9:18 PM [Bluesky] Mary, thank you for asking. So far things are better. Distance is a good thing. Hahaha

9:19 PM lisak: Heavenly Father, our hope is in You. You are the faithful and loving God. In You, we will find everything we need. Fill us, Lord. Likewise, please continue to protect and guide our spouses through this season of life. Help us to all come through this in a manner that will bring glory to Your Son and what He has done on the cross for us. In Jesus’ name, Amen.

9:20 PM [plumcrazy] AMEN

9:20 PM [MarySarah] swan well that kind of stinks b/c it seems the ow did the biking outdoor things as part her job. So he thinks she's all that, but I we were really busy with 3 kids & she wasn't more I tried to do those things even when he was here, more he pushed away &/or expected me to stay in the "mom" role here & not the role of his girlfriend anymore Hard to get out of those kid of ruts I guess

9:20 PM [Bluesky] lisak Amen, thanks for tonight.

9:20 PM lisak: ALL - the room will be closing automatically very soon. Any other retreat questions for me before it closes and kicks us out?

9:20 PM [swan] dogwood - I found out the hard way that many of the books out there offer methods of how to manipulate them by acting a certain way, but with a MLCer, if your actions and words are not bottom-line true from the heart, they seem to know it immediately and tend to resent us more for trying to trick them. The balance is to find things you enjoy that they also enjoy and do them, believe me if you are doing something just because they like it and it is something you don't like, they will see that.

9:21 PM [plumcrazy] Lisa --Will the facilitators be there>

9:21 PM [MarySarah] Blue - sometimes yes, My dtr I know is getting home sick

9:22 PM [MarySarah] All, God's blessings! Love ya & sweet dreams & peaceful sleep!

9:22 PM lisak: plumcrazy at :21. Yes - some Facilitators will be there. Not confirmed which ones just yet, but there are always Facilitators that join us. They are such a blessing to all of us.

9:22 PM [Bluesky] Mary, my d isn't there yet. And she is 3000 miles away. But I also think she wanted to be away from the junk here.

9:22 PM [Bluesky] MarySarah, hope your neck is doing better

9:22 PM [plumcrazy] Lisa--Yes they ARE!!!!

9:22 PM [MarySarah] Blue a tiny bit better thanks

9:22 PM [swan] MarySarah - If you children are old enough that you can do something’s on your own, do it. You can still be a great mom and also an individual, it makes for a happier everyone.

9:23 PM [MarySarah] The nurse practitioner I work with gave me muscle relaxer today yeah!

9:23 PM [plumcrazy] Mary--Muscle relaxers are good. I was injured at work by my student.

9:23 PM [Bluesky] Mary, oohh, I could use one of those right now. My back is out and foot is back in boot. I need to get up and eat some dinner, wish someone would wait on me. Hehehe

9:23 PM [MarySarah] Blue yes the girls I think want to get away & don't want to think of ending up like us, plus their daddy is everything

9:24 PM [Bluesky] Mary, so true. I pray our children will never experience this pain.

9:24 PM [plumcrazy] Blue --I would if you were closer and I Know that YOU would enjoy being taken care of my Family doesn’t seem to want me to help them

9:24 PM [Bluesky] Lisa swan, night girls. Thanks for all you do.

9:24 PM [dogwood] Swan-- you are such a wise woman. however, h and I have very different interest and he knows that. In fact, I do not have any hobby besides kids and career, hardly have time for anything else. I guess that I will have to be extremely careful when finding new interests.

9:25 PM [Bluesky] Plum, hahaha.

9:25 PM lisak: Bluesky - goodnight and thanks for your help too.

9:25 PM [mariposa] night all

9:25 PM [swan] dogwood - develop some, kids and career are not a hobby - I know, I was once an work alcoholic

9:25 PM [plumcrazy] Goodnight everyone and take care

9:26 PM [MarySarah] swan Trouble is, I like working on common projects with people & like common goals, kind of got sick of doing things alone so much in my marriage Most my friends are very married I could like almost anything, but am not a type person gets obsessed with any one thing I like doing lots things & just whenever I feel like it My H gets obsessed with anything he does & when it's old hat he conquers something new

9:27 PM [plumcrazy] Lisa send me an email with any other questions for me.

9:27 PM [plumcrazy] Nite Mary Sarah

9:27 PM [MarySarah] O:)

9:27 PM [plumcrazy] Bye

9:28 PM [MarySarah] Nite Plum, Lisa, & swan

8:19 PM [Still] Jim, How can we meet another's needs when they will not come near us, communicate more than one-word syllables, or have any meaningful interaction?

8:24 PM Jim: Still at :19, you don't have to be around someone to meet their needs. For example; if a woman is a controlling perfectionist, that's an issue that can be worked on with dozens of other people, so that when there is a contact there is an obvious difference demonstrated by the woman lack of control.

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