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September 20, 2010 / with Jim Conway

8:14 PM [DA] Jim - She views a MLC as an excuse that a man tries to use to justify his behavior. Though I have asked her many times to forgive me - she doesn't believe me to be sincere.


8:19 PM [Jim] DA at 8:14, Remember that when someone has been burned several times, it is more difficult for them to trust again. The weight is on your shoulders to demonstrate over many months that you can be trustworthy, and that you really do understand her needs.

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You have entered CR#2, Monday @ 6 pm PST with Dr. Jim Conway.

8:02 PM [lisak] Hi Chat Room Guests. I’m Lisa, the Office Manager for Midlife Dimensions. I enjoy serving the Lord through our Chat Room Ministry which has helped so many people through the tough times of midlife crisis. Remember, Jim always offers his live counseling in the chat room without cost. If you wish to make a tax-deductible donation to our ministry to support the Website/Chat Room upkeep, please do so at www.Midlife.com. Thank you. Jim will be online with us momentarily; he will read your questions and dictate his replies to me so I can type them for you to read. Jim has time for all questions that are posted before the end of the hour. Thanks for understanding.

8:03 PM [sbky] hello

8:03 PM [dogwood] Yes, I am glad to join the session. I feel so much pain inside. Sorry, that life is up and down all the time at the mercy of H's behavior.

8:03 PM [dogwood]: I have told my adult son and daughter about the recent incident how I found out H’s affairs and unfaithfulness and his desire to get out of marriage. I found emotional support from my children. But I do not know if it is okay for me to let my husband know that if he decides to leave me he will lose our children and grandchildren as consequence of his choice.

8:04 PM [sbky] how is everyone tonight

8:05 PM [Bluesky] Dogwood, no, let your h be responsible for telling him. I discovered I had let my kids know everything as it went along which let my h off the hook.

8:06 PM [sbky] hello Jim

8:09 PM [DA] Jim- What percentage of wives are able to accept the idea of a MLC and forgive their husbands of their poor ML choices (including an affair) in order to work toward healing and restoration?

8:11 PM [Jim] DA at 8:09, It's important not to focus on statistics and averages, rather keep working on understanding why your wife was upset with you and why she's still not able to forgive you.

8:10 PM [sbky] it is quiet tonight...

8:11 PM [plumcrazy] Jim--I have a question. When things get stressful and H retreats He says to kick him out. At the beginning of this I asked H what I should do H told me to kick him out and tell him not to come back until he gets his self together. I was scared to do that thought he might not come back. I always wondered if it would have helped if I did what do you think

8:13 PM [Jim] plumcrazy at 8:11, it’s very important to not assume the mothering role and take the responsibility for kicking him out. Remember that midlife men don't want to have a mother, but a girlfriend. So don't let him sucker you into the mother role.

8:11 PM [dogwood] Jim-- . I am going to go to the East coast visiting my son and their new baby this week, H encourages me to visit them and he hopes that my son will convince me to stay strong when H leaves me. H wants me not to fall apart when he leaves that will make him feel less guilty. He tried to tell me that marriage falls apart as a natural process as he has changed over time. He does not want to work on relationship just want to be out. He sounded to want to prepare me for his leaving

8:15 PM [Jim] dogwood at 8:11, it is extremely important for you to identify why your husband wants to be away from you. Frequently I ask women about 3 areas that men complain about. Let me ask you how you are doing in the three areas that midlife men complain about. 1. Midlife Men complain that their wives are naggy, controlling, and often boss them around like children (sometimes men do act like children). 2. Midlife Men complain that their wives are overweight, out of shape, and do not care about physical appearance. Men are very visual, & when their wife looks good to them, that translates that she is interested in sex. A high priority in a man’s life is regular, exciting sex for which he doesn’t have to beg. 3. Midlife Men complain that their wives have not had a new thought since they got married. They complain that their wives are not growing intellectually or in their careers, which makes them very dependent and clingy -- which is often negative to a midlife man. How are you doing in these three areas?

8:11 PM [faithful] Jim I do not know what to think. h did not communicate with us for a while and now he is being very polite and actually returning my emails a lot faster than before. All we talk is about the boys and their visits. He is actually pretty polite. I try no email him anymore than I have to. Do you have any suggestions. He is also tells me thankful for letting him see the boys. I told him he did not have to thank me but he is so thankful. Do not know what to think of it.

8:16 PM [Jim] faithful at 8:11, this is very encouraging behavior - often connecting with the children is a way that men start to work their way back toward the marriage. Keep looking for opportunities to affirm him, and keep trying to identify what is going on in his life and how you can best meet those needs.

8:13 PM [plumcrazy] Hello DA----Nice to see you again

8:13 PM [faithful] all I have not seen MAS in a while is she ok?

8:13 PM [wiffe] all-It is so hard to see H struggling. Like tonight I could tell he didn't know what to do when he was getting ready to leave. He couldn't figure out to hug me or kiss me.

8:14 PM [DA] Jim - She views a MLC as an excuse that a man tries to use to justify his behavior. Though I have asked her many times to forgive me - she doesn't believe me to be sincere.

8:19 PM [Jim] DA at 8:14, Remember that when someone has been burned several times, it is more difficult for them to trust again. The weight is on your shoulders to demonstrate over many months that you can be trustworthy, and that you really do understand her needs.

8:14 PM [plumcrazy] Jim---why would he ask me to kick him out? Because of guilt? Or does he think it would force him to change if he was forced to be away from the kids? I don’t plan on kicking H out If he leaves it will have to be his choice. I don’t want to have something he can use against me like that

8:19 PM [Jim] plumcrazy at 8:14, don't initiate kicking him out - it will give him legal leverage.

8:15 PM [wiffe] DA-Did you have the MLC and have gone back to her?

8:15 PM [sbky] Jim I can say I think I have taken care of those three things. the last being the 42 pounds I lost

8:21 PM [Jim] sbky at 8:15, I am very very proud of you that you have lost the weight. Remember that it's not only physical appearance that bothers midlife guys, but also attitudes of being bossy, domineering, pushy, and more concerned with the kids than with them. So again, yeah for you! You're on the right track!

8:15 PM [DA] wiffe: I never left home. And yes - I was the one who struggled with a MLC - 10 years ago.

8:16 PM [Bluesky] faithful, I emailed her yesterday and she said she hasn't been feeling well. I asked her a couple of questions but she never got back to me

8:16 PM [wiffe] Jim -What if you think you have figured out which of those 3 you fall into. NOW what. I'm working on a few areas. I assume I just continue and wait.

8:22 PM [Jim] wiffe at 8:16, yes - keep working on any of the areas that God is pointing out to you. Remember that God is changing you as well as changing your husband. You didn't get into this problem in 2 months, and you won't get out of it in 2 months either.

8:16 PM [swan] plumcrazy - because if you kick him out, he can be the one asked to leave not the one leaving.

8:16 PM [plumcrazy] Swan--That’s what I thought

8:17 PM [dogwood] One of Jim’s recommendation is: Dr. Clark’s book on what to do when your spouse tells you that I don’t love you anymore… I read a few pages and find it follows the “tough love” principles. What do you all think about this book. I sometimes wonder if H needs to be separated because he was caught in affair by me; he can’t justifies his behavior without pointing figures on me. But he actually confessed to SIL that I am a nice person, good mother and wife. But he feels empty in the marriage and does not want to work on it either. With him staying at home, but separated, he constantly refuses to do anything with me and pushes me away and rejects any of my suggestions of doing things together really hit me very hard emotionally. But honestly, I will fall apart if he actually moves out. Although I am a professional woman and have a successful career, I can’t go on if he leaves. I will need to leave my career and start a new life with family support network around me.

8:19 PM [faithful] Jim he did tell me his car was repossed and is driving an older car wish he is not use to also he is broke he can not afford his cell phone anymore. I do try to reaffirm him and try not to be clinging. I only email him when I have to and sometime wait a day or two before I respond as not to be to clinging.

8:24 PM [Jim] faithful at 8:19, I don't know your husband very well, but he is coming across as a rather dependant man, who probably married you so that you would take the responsibility. Now he is trying to grow up, and that is very difficult. Keep asking God to help him move from being a teenage man, to being a midlife man. And keep asking God to help you be patient and help you grow as he is growing.

8:21 PM [DA] I'm tired of feeling like I have to earn her forgiveness... 10 years Jim. I am not a perfect man - but I do have a heart for her and I try. But the slightest misstep takes her right back to where she was - and I get the verbal reminders of what I did to her. I'm so weary of it.

8:27 PM [Jim] DA at 8:21, I’m sorry that this has dragged on and on - but I'm also glad for what has been happening in your life spiritually. You are a different man since you have given your life to Christ. And I think that some of your growth is still frightening your wife. You're doing all the right stuff. It's simply a matter of waiting for the process to fully kick in. Remember that after my first wife, Sally, died.....I waited 9 years before I got married - God needed to do a lot of work on me so that I would be ready for marriage. You can't make a tomato grow any faster than what's normal, so hang on to this growth cycle.

8:22 PM [sbky] Jim we still have no relationship and Saturday night I found out he had took our d out and his gf was there. d cried after that. but wouldn’t tell him. I went off. I know not good but I did..

8:28 PM [Jim] sbky at 8:22, Many midlife men who are in affairs try to create a situation where they can introduce their girlfriend to one of the kids. Generally this backfires, so don't let this throw you. He's trying to think of you as a used car that he can trade in.

8:22 PM [plumcrazy] Jim--What is the name of the book by Dr. Clark that Dogwood is talking about

8:24 PM [DA] Jim - I guess, for her, I just don't measure up any more. She doesn't view me as trustworthy or worthy of love and respect.

8:31 PM [Jim] DA at 8:24, This is the time you need to do the things that will keep you from being dragged down into depression - lots of exercise, lots of healthy eating, time reading the scriptures, talking to friends, and make sure that if the doctor has you on meds, you're not skipping any.

8:25 PM [plumcrazy] DA--Your wife LOVES you JIM is right she is just afraid to trust you and hasn’t learned how to do that yet.

8:26 PM [plumcrazy] DA--I have trouble after 22 yrs trusting my H completely because of my 1st H cheating on me. It isn’t fair to current H but the hurt went very deep the 1st time. I was unaware of the affair

8:27 PM [swan] DA - did she do any counseling during your MLC or after you reconnected? Sometimes it is so hard to let go of the hurt and resentment when someone we love so much does things that to us demonstrate total disregard for us. As much as I don't like to admit it, I still have times when those feelings come back up for me in regards to my mother. I work through it, feel that I have forgiven her, but then something will happen and the hurt it right there again and I have to start over working through it again. I really want to be able to forgive her and beat myself up when those old feelings come back, which makes it worse because then there is guilt added to it. It is so hard to trust my mother not to do or say the things she has in the past, I just don't want to open myself up to that pain again.

8:27 PM [DA] Plum - I'd love to believe that, but she told me the other day that she doesn't feel anything for me any more.

8:27 PM [faithful] Jim you are so right at 8:19. He would always tell me he did not want to grow up it was no fun to grow up and I would tell him I wanted a husband not a son. I see all this as a growing process for both of us. I am praying for God to help stay on my path. Is so awesome when I start to want and give up God reminds me that He is in control and I am to be still and know that He is God.

8:32 PM [Jim] faithful at 8:27 - I'm glad for the good insight that God is giving you - you're right on target.

8:28 PM [plumcrazy] DA---If she didn’t love you she wouldn’t be there It is that simple~~

8:29 PM [DA] Swan: We tried to get counseling from our pastor, but it just didn't really address the deepest issues. No healing to speak of. And she did not really get below the surface. She keeps her emotions tightly sealed up.

8:29 PM [plumcrazy] DA--It is easier for her if she tells you that. Then she doesn’t have to feel anything and risk being hurt again.

8:29 PM [sbky] Jim is the rumor are true. she won’t be around long.

8:33 PM [Jim] sbky at 8:29, remember not to focus on what your husband is doing or any other woman is doing. Focus on your own growth, and focus on understanding your own husband.

8:29 PM [mariposa] Jim: Is sexual addiction often intertwined with MLC or is it two separate problems?

8:35 PM [Jim] mariposa at 8:29, the quick answer is "yes - they are intertwined". Most midlife men look for some thing or someone to take away their pain - it could be pornography, alcohol, another woman, overworking, taking up dangerous sports, etc. etc.

8:30 PM [dogwood] Plumcrazy-- I left the book at home so I don't have the exact title with me. but I found the title is: What to do when he says, I don't love you anymore by David Clarke, PhD.

8:31 PM [plumcrazy] Dogwood ---thank you for the info Now I can do a search on it. Probably listed on the Midlife website I am sure'

8:31 PM [DA] Plum: Not so sure... she seems more interested in understanding all aspects of our finances "just in case" and has said on many occasions that if anything happens to me, she would never re-marry - cause it wouldn't be worth the hassle.

8:32 PM [plumcrazy] DA--That is the HURT talking. Don’t give up on her

8:32 PM [DA] Jim - good advice. I've started going numb again from the loneliness.

8:36 PM [Jim] DA at 8:32, we want you to know that we love you and we are your cheerleaders through this process - we are all very proud of you.

8:34 PM [sbky] Jim do you think h is testing me. went 4 years without having anyone around the kids. an only understand him from I hear from here. we don’t talk .

8:37 PM [Jim] sbky at 8:34, I think that your husband is testing to see if he can sort of dump you without any consequences. Ideally what we want from you is that you become the most interesting, attractive, and affirming woman that he knows. Keep shooting for that goal.

8:35 PM [plumcrazy] Jim---Why can H hold me after being intimate but if I ask him to hold me or snuggle with me instead of his body pillow he refuses. I don’t see the difference.

8:40 PM [Jim] plumcrazy at 8:35, after a man has a sexual climax, there is a sharp hormonal drop, and frequently men fall asleep. Your husband is not wanting to show you more affection because he has experienced this sharp drop. Plus he may feel guilty because he is using you without really nourishing you. Don't make a big issue of this, just keep affirming him the next day or so about what a great time it was.

8:36 PM [faithful] All I have to go and take care of my kidos. Thanks for the advice Jim and God Bless

8:36 PM [plumcrazy] Goodnite Faithful Take care

8:36 PM [Jim] To all: This is Lisa, office manager. Some of you may have not had enough personal time with Jim, or you have a very private question that you didn’t want to discuss openly in the chat room. If you'd like to schedule a phone counseling session call us at 714-768-1777.

8:37 PM [Bluesky] DA, could she be in her own mlc? the deep hurt from yours?

8:37 PM [plumcrazy] DA---Yes we are proud of you and you have helped many of us here. so thank you very much

8:37 PM [DA] Jim: Thanks.    It helps to have friends.

8:37 PM [Bluesky] DA, Amen to that one

8:37 PM [dogwood] Jim-- I am trying to develop things that interest him, but he perceives that I am trying to manipulate him back to the marriage and he does not want me to. BTW, he told me that I am seeking counseling and reading your books, etc. making him feel that everyone is trying to GET him. I told him that I seek consulting is for myself and I am not trying to Change him. Jim, will it work most effective if we keep strategies to ourselves and not let H know?

8:38 PM [Cindy] hello everyone

8:38 PM [DA] Hi Cindy.

8:38 PM [swan] sbky - my husband wanted so much for our children (adults) to accept his other woman, after they married, she asked them to call her mom and for my grandson to call her grandma. She just wanted them to be the happy family and to her that meant them accepting her as their mom. She also requested that her sons call my husband dad. My children at first got upset, but I spoke with them and impressed upon them that she was a part of their father’s life, they don't need to call her mom if they don't want to but they did need to show and treat her with respect. I told them they needed to just let their dad know there were not comfortable calling her mom, they did and it was agreed they would just call her by her name. As it goes my husband wasn't too hip on her sons calling him dad either. In the end, she caused the backfire and caused the end of her calling my children numerous times a day, paling up to them, etc. And it was my husband who instructed her to leave his children alone, to never call any of them again, and that he would be visiting them alone, and when they go to his house, she is to go spend that time with one of her son's. Don't worry about it so much, it hurts and opens the door for fear, but they are his children and he is wanting to introduce them to that part of his life. I have known many who have tried the forbidding their children to be around the other woman, that also backfires. In one case, the child is now living with the father and is very angry at his mom.

8:39 PM [Cindy] DA!!

8:39 PM [DA] Bluesky @ 8:37 - I don't know. It could be I suppose. Heck - she just hit her 50's too.

8:40 PM [DA] Cindy - how have you been?

8:40 PM [sbky] swan my d says she won’t go with him if the gf will be there I am praying for strength for her to be able to do that..

8:41 PM [Cindy] DA...good and still trying to find a job. How about you?

8:41 PM [plumcrazy] Jim think you misunderstood. I meant why can’t he snuggle with me any other time than when we are being intimate?

8:44 PM [Jim] plumcrazy at 8:41, snuggling suggests a great deal of commitment - and he's not ready to make that kind of commitment. You have to keep looking through his eyes and understand his confusion and his fears. It's very difficult for men to cross this barrier, be patient and keep asking God to do miracles.

8:42 PM [DA] Bluesky - she went to dinner with her friends tonight... and has been doing more things with others. I think she likes to get away from home (me) when she can.

8:42 PM [dogwood] Plumcrazy--A minor correction of the book title. It also reads as: " I don't love you anymore: what to do when he says.

8:42 PM [Jim] ALL: because of the limited amount of chat conversation we can see on our screen, we have lost some of the questions before we could see them. Our IT guy will be working on making us able to see the entire chat. Hopefully sooner than later. Until then - if you notice we missed a question of yours, please ask it again. Sorry for the inconvenience. Hopefully we'll be able to view the entire chat again soon.

8:43 PM [Bluesky] DA, have you tried the dating thing?

8:43 PM [DA] Cindy - Well, I'm still working anyway. LOL. But my heart hurts tonight and I have been sharing why a bit earlier in the chat.

8:43 PM [plumcrazy] Jim Sometimes with my arthritis pain I would just love to be held and I ask H to hold me or snuggle and he refuses. I thought it would be easier for him when we weren’t being intimate

8:44 PM [swan] sbky - she is going to sense your feelings and is most likely going to behave in the way she believes is what you expect. The boy I mentioned above, at first he was very much on board with his mom, even openly called the other woman names. What happened was the father started seeing the son less and less, it wasn't until he hit his teen years that there was a change and that was when all heck broke loose. I wouldn't say to encourage her to be around the other woman, but to try and have an open conversation with her dad about her feelings and that she doesn't want to lose her dad, but she just needs to not have the other woman in her life right now.

8:44 PM [Bluesky] all, I wonder how it went for KM2 today? I hope he pops in before we close

8:44 PM [Cindy] DA...sorry but it won't let me go back to catch up on chat. I'll pray for you too.

8:45 PM [DA] Blue: I have worn myself out with doing the dating thing... it actually is uncomfortable for us now. Strange for two people who have been together since we were 15. You would think we could find some enjoyment in that, wouldn't you?

8:45 PM [Kathy215] Jim: I'm feeling very sad and discouraged today. My H sent me an e-mail wanting to get together for dinner to discuss getting a D.

8:48 PM [Jim] Kathy215 at 8:45, Kathy, We are all very sorry that this painful process is going on for you. But sometimes a man must use this kind of email as a way to connect with you, so don't be terrified by the email, and don't be terrified by discussing a divorce. Look for God to use this as a way to connect with him.

8:45 PM [swan] Lisa - if you give me an idea, I can repost the questions

8:46 PM [mariposa] Jim: We have been married 30 years. He was a wonderful Christian man until MLC hit. This has been going on 7 years with him moving out 2 months ago. He is withdrawing more and more daily. Do all men come out of the crisis? Is withdrawal one of the final stages?

8:50 PM [Jim] mariposa at 8:46, most men make it through a midlife crisis, but your focus should not be on what does statistics say, your focus should be on understanding what his needs are and how you can be the most interesting and attractive wife to him. Remember that when a marriage falls upon a midlife crisis, there is a relational problem between the 2 of you. You are not meeting each other's needs, so one or the other starts to look for other answers.

8:46 PM [DA] ((((Kathy)))))

8:46 PM [Bluesky] DA, oh, I am so sorry, I wish we had the magic answer for you, but I guess it is up to her to seek some help.

8:46 PM [plumcrazy] Jim--Thank you so much for that info. I will keep that in mind and won’t ask him any more

8:46 PM [sbky] swan I had as much of a conversation he will have the other night his favorite words "I am not discussing this!!!" is all he could say. he asked d Sunday she said the woman was nice but it was weird being around her. he said it was understandable. he asked her about what his mother told him about d saying she hates him. she told him. it isn’t as bad as it use to be since we are talking some..

8:46 PM [DA] I think I am going to suggest we go back into counseling. Can't hurt, can it?

8:47 PM [Cindy] Boscosdad...how are you?

8:47 PM [swan] DA - I believe that might be a very good idea, it does help to be able to talk the hurt out with a neutral party

8:48 PM [plumcrazy] BoscosDad---you are awfully quiet Are you ok?

8:48 PM [Kathy215] Jim: I know this is the million dollar question, but if I want my H to come back what do I need to do? It's been 2 years now and I've been working on myself and I actually like myself. My H started an online affair with OW 2 years ago, but it became physical in June. He seems incredibly happy with her and now wants to file for D.

8:51 PM [Jim] Kathy215 at 8:48, perhaps we need to talk by phone, and let's talk about why he seems to be so happy with her and why he seems to want to be away from you.

8:48 PM [Bluesky] DA, gosh it that doesn't show your commitment?

8:48 PM [BoscosDad] I am just trying to really tune in to people and what they're saying.

8:49 PM [DA] Swan: If there's anything I've learned it's that men and women can be talking about the same thing and completely miss what each other meant. Throw in emotional pain and it's like swimming upstream.

8:49 PM [plumcrazy] (((((BoscosDad))))\

8:49 PM [plumcrazy] Hello Mary Sarah

8:50 PM [Cindy] Boscosdad...I got your message but was at my sister's farm for a few days.

8:50 PM [Kathy215] Jim: So do you think I should meet him for dinner to discuss D or is better that I tell him I don't want to meet with him to discuss it.

8:52 PM [Jim] Kathy215 at 8:50, keep looking at this opportunity as a way to connect, not necessarily focusing on divorce. This is an opportunity for him to see you in a different light.

8:50 PM [BoscosDad] Kathy215: This is hard to hear, but be prepared to go longer. There is no magic thing you can do. This has to run its course. I liked what Jim said about tomatoes. They take just so long to grow and can't be rushed.

8:50 PM [sbky] Jim I think most men make it through mlc but whether or not the marriage does depends a lot on the wife. is that correct.. most just give up and move one.

8:53 PM [Jim] sbky at 8:50, we have found the most powerful person helping a man through midlife crisis and saving the marriage is the man's wife. So many times I urge you to grow and change and understand what's happening so that you can be that powerful healthy Godly person to meet your husband's needs.

8:51 PM [swan] DA - very much so, there was a country song and it went "he said,... she heard..." that is so right too many times

8:51 PM [MarySarah] DA during MLC did you not only justify & blame your wife, but also consider her crazy no matter how rationale, calm, or reasonable she was? As if the sarcasm in the home wasn't enough before, the smug, cocky, superior, controlling attitude during MLC is sometimes far too much to deal with

8:52 PM [BoscosDad] Cindy: I start work tomorrow in Rancho Santa Margarita.

8:52 PM [DA] Swan: I loved that section in the book Love and Respect. Pink and blue.

8:53 PM [BoscosDad] Plum: I'm quiet because I'm a Cleveland Browns fan. We're usually depressed on Mondays! :-)

8:53 PM [Cindy] Boscosdad...good for you!! I talked to the marketing director in Fullerton today. I'm still in the running.

8:53 PM [DA] MarySarah: I did blame her for my misery. I blew it way out of proportion. Don't get me wrong, we did have issues, but during my MLC they turned from being something that needed to be worked on into something to get away from.

8:53 PM [swan] DA - me too, it was an eye opener, here I thought all those years my husband wasn't hearing me, he was he was just hearing in his own way, same for me. Things I took personal and allowed to hurt me, were actually his way of showing he cared.

8:54 PM [BoscosDad] Cindy: Good luck! We'll both be in Orange County!

8:54 PM [sbky] Jim how can I meet those when he won’t even speak to me

8:58 PM [Jim] sbky at 8:54, remember that a lot of your changes will be communicated to your husband through friends, without necessarily showing him. We want him to discover that you are a growing, changing, fascinating person - we don't want you to tell him.

8:54 PM [Kathy215] Jim: Thanks for the advice. I have noticed that my H is calling and e-mailing more often. I hadn't heard from him for weeks and then out of the blue he sent an e-mail last week asking how my job was going.

8:59 PM [Jim] Kathy215 at 8:54, This is very exciting news Kathy, whatever you're doing, keep doing more of it.

8:54 PM [DA] Cindy - yea! Hope you get the job!

8:55 PM [Cindy] DA...thanks. It sounds perfect for me and I'll be closer to my daughter, son-in-law and soon to be born twin boys.

8:56 PM [DA] Hey... only 12 more years until I can retire! LOL!

8:57 PM [plumcrazy] Cindy---Best of luck on the job. Is it in the same field you were in before?

8:57 PM [dogwood] Jim-- I am repeating my question in case it was lost..I am going to go to the East coast visiting my son and their new baby this week, H encourages me to visit them and he hopes that my son will convince me to stay strong when H leaves me. H wants me not to fall apart when he leaves that will make him feel less guilty. He tried to tell me that marriage falls apart as a natural process as he has changed over time. He does not want to work on relationship just want to be out. He sounded to want to prepare me for his leaving. what do you think?

9:01 PM [Jim] dogwood at 8:57, perhaps we need to talk by phone. But it does seem that your husband is trying to prepare a support base for you in case of a divorce.

8:57 PM [mariposa] Jim: My H texted me last night that I am perfect. That he has treated me horribly and that I don't deserve this. He is asking for D. He says he does not feel that he could every come back to the marriage because of how badly he has hurt me.

9:03 PM [Jim] mariposa at 8:57, as strange as it seems, your husband is trying to apologize. Some men have very strange ways of doing this. Keep giving him lots of affirmation and remind him that we all fail, but God can forgive us, and we can forgive each other.

8:57 PM [Cindy] plumcrazy...yes in the same field.

8:57 PM [Kathy215] Cindy - good luck on getting the job. I will pray for you.

8:58 PM [MarySarah] Kathy they act happy with the ow, b/c it is new & different, usually a lot more convenient & far less responsibility, with a woman who has pretty loose morals if any at all. Plus they have to be happy b/c it is their justification. God's truths are simple & need NO justifying, sin however, does. We are responsibility & old hat..... Your H is trapped by satan & blind & deceived. Please let yourself off the hook. My H screwed around before when we still did everything together, had lots physical intimacy, I was expecting, but even that turned him on & I was very fit in pregnancy, his career was everything & his hobbies. He wasn't nagged, he stopped it before it went as far as it could & to this day can't tell you why it happened, I forgave immediately with NO consequences & feel me changing to indulge his every whim & him not being forced to deal with consequences made him do it again 13yrs later, H will have to reach end of himself & only God can deal with, heal & clean him out

8:58 PM [plumcrazy] Cindy--What kind of work do you do? I forgot

8:58 PM [Cindy] plumcrazy..working with the elderly.

8:59 PM [MarySarah] DA 8:52 I think Love & Respect is soooo on target, it is absolutely scriptural!

8:59 PM [DA] mariposa: The shame can be very real for a man who has struggled with a MLC and mad BAD choices.

8:59 PM [sbky] Jim I think he knows I think his boldness with gf is coming from his fright. I might be wrong but I really feel that.

9:04 PM [Jim] sbky at 8:59, remember that your husband is trying to grow up and there's a lot of confusion.

8:59 PM [BoscosDad] Cindy is a coach for an old lady's hockey team. They're very good! :-)

9:00 PM [plumcrazy] Cindy--I would love to get back to working with the elderly. In fact I am trying to find employment in that area for next yr

9:00 PM [BoscosDad] Cindy, you can work with me. I AM the elderly!

9:00 PM [sbky] marysarah I am a lot better than I was Saturday night still have to calm myself sometime so I don’t cry. but doing better

9:01 PM [Kathy215] Jim: the only thing I can think of that I'm doing different is staying out of his life. When he first started physically seeing OW I was always calling and going over. Now I do nothing.

9:05 PM [Jim] Kathy215 at9:01, we'll all keep praying for you in the process.

9:01 PM [DA] MarySarah: It's amazing how many people oppose it. It seems you either fully embrace it or reject it outright. Guess it depends on your willingness to believe in the basic differences between genders at the level of the soul.

9:02 PM [MarySarah] Mariposa 8:57 my H said those things @ beginning & now the further he is in sin, instead it is all about justifying. He never remembers anything he says from day to day, only getting out & keeping his money is top of his list aside from fun & convenience with ow. Again, try to hear the feeling behind his words & listen & agree with the feelings...acknowledge them, & just listen. You don't have to agree with his thinking, but you can agree with how he feels. You reserve right to comment another day if need be. Use those "I" messages

9:02 PM [DA] Cindy - hockey?

9:03 PM [dogwood] Jim-- Thanks, I will make an appointment

9:03 PM [plumcrazy] Jim--I was wondering about something. I stopped doing all the little things I used to do out of the blue for H. I used to give him cards telling him I love him, get little gifts to let I’m know I was thinking of him These were at random times. Should I have kept doing these things?

9:04 PM [mariposa] Jim: Thanks. I will keep affirming. I told him last night to please not worry about me right now. That I am ok and that he just needs to focus on his relationship with God.

9:04 PM [MarySarah] sbky 9:00 Praise God He is calming & comforting you 9:04 PM [swan] plumcrazy - remind me, but didn't he get upset sometimes when you did that?

9:05 PM [MarySarah] DA I missed the comment about blaming & blowing things out proportion, got that part but not rest

9:05 PM [sbky] Jim my nephew is 19 and my sister and me was talking she said I cant get him to come home either..lol. I told her h is going through a second puberty..ol

9:06 PM [Jim] Thanks everyone for being in the chat room today. If you got lost during the chat process, check back later to find the edited chat dialogue posted in the archives, there you can read it at your own pace. It's been fun talking with you today. We, at Midlife Dimensions, will remember you and your marriages in prayer throughout the week. Warmly in Christ, Jim. James 4:8, Draw near to God and He will draw near to you.

9:06 PM [plumcrazy] Swan--Yeah sometimes H would get upset But that wasn’t till after the MLC started

9:06 PM [sbky] all goodnight

9:06 PM [DA] MarySarah: I said that I went from desiring to work on the problems between us to simply scrambling to get away from them when my MLC hit.

9:06 PM [swan] plumcrazy - if it upsets him, then I would say to not do it for now, at least not until he is more open to that type thing

9:07 PM [DA] Good night all. Thanks for being here.

9:08 PM [plumcrazy] Swan--I haven’t been giving him things because of that I was just wondering about it

9:08 PM [MarySarah] Jim 9:03 My H initially said things like I thought about coming back but, or I know this is wrong, & he was lousy H....you deserve this & even how can you forgive me, but even saying I would & could & we all mess up never seemed enough to edify him. He had the PO box before the bomb, & pushed me away so far before left & wouldn't even be in same room with me. Now the ow has him treating her like queen & he does EVERYTHING & provides more for & does more with her after nearly 3 yrs still I think it's still running behaviors & trying to alter brain chemistry with adrenaline rushes & newness

9:10 PM [lisak] ALL: Jim left just after 9:00, he and Jan have a Pastor and his wife visiting for the evening, and he needed to get back to his company.

9:10 PM [mariposa] Mary Sarah: It really stinks, doesn't it !! I'm sorry you are going through this.

9:10 PM [lisak] Heavenly Father, when we choose to focus on You, we realize we are worthwhile and strong. Thank you for filling our future with hope and gladness. In Your Son’s Precious Name, Amen.

9:11 PM [plumcrazy] AMEN Lisa Love your color by the way It is my favorite color

9:11 PM [swan] lisak - Amen, when we focus on the Lord, everything else just seems to be better

9:12 PM [mariposa] All: My favorite verse is Romans 12:12. Rejoice in your hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer.

9:12 PM [MarySarah] swan sometimes I feel my H knew deep down how much he left me out & expected of me & now somehow doing everything for & with ow is to prove to self that he has what it takes in relationship & also getting kids on his side is to make up for all time he spent alone doing all things he wanted? Why can't they choose to be so good to a wife who would revel in it, but not expect perfection

9:13 PM [MarySarah] Mariposa 9:12 Nice verse! Beautiful!

9:14 PM [lisak] Good night all. swan will close up for us this evening.

9:14 PM [plumcrazy] goodnight everyone take care

9:15 PM [mariposa] Good night all. Thanks for caring !

9:16 PM [MarySarah] swan my mom called my H's cell phone a couple mo ago I just found out. She left message she was thinking about him & they love him & would welcome him back should he want to be part of the family anytime & updated him on my dad since his stroke a yr ago, do you think that was ok, it was all her idea & I learned of it after the fact. I have always told her to let Lord lead her in that area too

9:16 PM [swan] MarySarah - Something I have noticed and do understand, however, Please, Please, Please let go of what your husband does for and how he treats the other woman. To be honest many times husband's who have come back have said they did that to prove to the world, themselves and especially to the wife they are leaving that it was the wife that made him the unloving person he was and see look at him now a new woman and he is a new man. The fact is it is temporary and will not last forever, but as long as he gets a rise out of you he will continue to behave the way he is.

9:17 PM [MarySarah] swan one more ? My counselor had appt sched with H way back over phone & he cancelled she wanted send 5 simple questions about his take on what went wrong so she could help me resolve things in my heart & mind, as the day approaches when my H can file if he chooses without grounds now, what about letter like that?

9:18 PM [swan] MarySarah - best to stay out of that all together, maybe let mom know that you are trusting God, you appreciate her and know she loves your husband, but this is a path he has to walk alone right now.

9:18 PM [MarySarah] swan 9:16 thanks I need that reminder

9:20 PM [MarySarah] swan 9:18 I don't think she will try again, I think she wanted him to know he is loved & the door is open. If she brings it up again, I will remind her again that only the Lord should lead her & I know only the Lord can work in H's life

9:20 PM [swan] MarySarah - unless you are ready to have him rip you to shreds in his letter, pointing out everything little thing he is accusing you of, especially if he thinks your counselor will introduce it to the court or she might be able to help you get over him. I would say let the sleeping dog sleep, why poke it with a stick; it is only going to be hurtful and tear at your heart.

9:21 PM [MarySarah] swan I think that's why I told her not to send it a year ago, I figured he would not have cancelled the appointment if he really wanted to look into himself, & I really have had more than enough garbage for a lifetime

9:22 PM [MarySarah] I think sleeping dogs & babies should be left too

9:23 PM [MarySarah] Well, my beautiful & wise sister, may God bless you with sweet dreams & restful sleep tonight & sunshine & joy in the morning as you wake!

9:23 PM [MarySarah] Goodnight dearest!

9:24 PM [swan] MarySarah - sometimes there just are no answers, they just do what they do and we need to not pick it to death to try and understand. I know I did that for years over my mother and step father, to be honest I drove myself to depression so bad that I was often suicidal, and you know what, they never lost a nights sleep over it. It is what is it and all you can do is pray and move forward growing yourself into the Godly woman the Lord has for you to be. Your husband will catch up when the Lord has convicted him and broken him to the point of obedience.

9:24 PM [swan] Goodnight MarySarah

9:25 PM [MarySarah] That last point is a good one & quite true Can't add a minute to the day or my life by analyzing or worrying, so I guess "don't worry, be happy" is the phrase for everyday!

9:25 PM [MarySarah] Night!

8:14 PM [DA] Jim - She views a MLC as an excuse that a man tries to use to justify his behavior. Though I have asked her many times to forgive me - she doesn't believe me to be sincere.


8:19 PM [Jim] DA at 8:14, Remember that when someone has been burned several times, it is more difficult for them to trust again. The weight is on your shoulders to demonstrate over many months that you can be trustworthy, and that you really do understand her needs.

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