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March 29, 2010 / with Jim Conway

6:14 ndakmom: Jim- spent a wonderful weekend with H, he was here most of the weekend, H watched a movie with me on Saturday and even made dinner on Saturday without me even asking. Today I’ve had absolutely no contact, should I wait for him to contact me?

6:21 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:14 ndakmom: You are experiencing classic male and female differences. If a boy smiles at a junior high girl, she expects him to ask her for a date. Generally women project too much into small moves that men make. Your husband on the other hand is thinking, "wow, I spent all that time with her, now I don't have to contact her for several days or maybe even a couple of weeks." You can see that there is a vast difference between males and females. That's why it's important to keep you stability with God, and not on some small innuendo from your husband.

6:04 LisaK [Programmer]: Hi Chat Room Guests. I’m Lisa, the Office Manager for Midlife Dimensions. I enjoy serving the Lord through our Chat Room Ministry which has helped so many people through the tough times of midlife crisis. Remember, Jim always offers his live counseling in the chat room without cost. If you wish to make a tax-deductible donation to our ministry to support the Website/Chat Room upkeep, please do so at www.Midlife.com. Thank you. Jim will be online with us momentarily, he will read your questions and dictate his replies to me so I can type them for you to read. Jim has time for all questions that are posted before the end of the hour. Thanks for understanding.

6:04 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: Hi Everyone, Sorry I’m here late, I was on a long distance call. What should we talk about?

6:04 Cricket2: Hi Lisa & Still - How are you tonight?

6:05 Still: Hi Cricket....just fine, and you?

6:05 Swanlake: Hello all, hope you are all doing good and experiencing the many blessings God has for you.

6:06 BlueSky: Hi Lisa, Cricket, Still Swan and Koko

6:06 Still: Hi Blue!

6:06 ndakmom: Hi everyone!

6:06 Cricket2: Still - I’m doing well, it was a day of many errands but felt good to get things accomplished.

6:07 koko: hi everybody

6:07 Still: Cricket, I would imagine most of your days are filled with errands....cyber and otherwise. :-)

6:07 Cricket2: Hi BlueSky, Ndakmom & koko - Good to see you all. We have some more rain coming in tonight, drizzle today but we can't complain on the West Coast with all the weather they've had through so much of the country.

6:08 ndakmom: cricket- we had a beautiful day here, was able to spend some time outside with the kids, it was great!

6:08 bethel: hi all, storm coming in now and expecting 100 mph winds

6:08 Cricket2: Still - YES it's to a point I don't count the cyber ones. I had planned to meet a friend to play golf but with the weather change, golf was cancelled and I got many things accomplished for other projects.

6:08 ndakmom: bethel- wow, what state are you in?

6:09 sbky: hello

6:09 Cricket2: ndakmom - We'd had great weather last week and it was so nice to be outside so I can't complain.

6:09 bethel: ndak NV

6:09 bethel: hi Dr Jim

6:09 Still: Cricket, Sounds like God literally sent you a "rain check".

6:09 Cricket2: Ndakmom - It just lifts the spirits when we get some good weather after a long winter.

6:10 ndakmom: cricket- yes, I totally agree, especially where I live, we spend most of the winter indoors

6:10 Cricket2: Still - You are right. I'd actually felt like I shouldn't have gone but the friend really encouraged me. So this way I didn't feel like I let her down.

6:10 sbky: Jim encouragement. can they really change from this no caring person back to a loving person it is so hard to believe sometimes

6:13 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:10 sbky: Keep remembering that your situation is very much like looking at the stock market. If you watch it moment by moment, it jumps up and down and can drive you crazy. But if you look at it over a period of 6 months or over a year, then you can see a gradual pattern of change. Keep asking God to give you a long view of this situation.

6:10 Cricket2: Bethel - Hope you're feeling a little better this evening.

6:10 Cricket2: Hi MAS & Evaline, Sbky - good to see you all.

6:11 BlueSky: all, I hope Saam shows up, I want to know how her weekend went with her h.

6:11 bethel: Dr Jim, last week you mentioned, we should become tougher with our interactions with ex. could you provide a couple examples

6:15 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:11 bethel: 1st, generally try to stall divorce proceedings as long as you can. 2nd, when your husband is ready to come back, make sure you go through adequate joint counseling so that you work through all of the previous problems.

6:11 evaline: Hello, All

6:11 Cricket2: BlueSky - I sent Tamashii a reminder so hopefully he'll join us too.

6:11 Cricket2: BlueSky - Only thing is that I remember his martial arts class it tonight.

6:12 BlueSky: Cricket, good thing, cuz I forgot, I am multitasking right now

6:12 MAS: Hello, Cricket. Hello all.

6:12 bethel: cricket, I hanging in there. Since a little down but God has been good. I got the house in the pre d hearing and refinance @ 4.65%

6:12 koko: Jim is it an advantage to be living together even as roomates,if so what are they?

6:16 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:12 koko: Living in the same house has the advantage of not having to explain to all of the family and friends your struggle. However, unless each of you are growing and changing to more adequately meet each other's needs, then you will likely keep drifting apart. So the question is "not if it's ok to be roommates" - but rather "are you changing to meet each other's needs?"

6:13 BlueSky: bethel, great rate! I think I am going to have to do that too.

6:13 Cricket2: Bethel - Do you mean after D we should be tougher in our interaction with our spouses? I wonder if you misunderstood. I think Jim tells us to still be friendly and warm, keeping connected is good.

6:13 Still: sbky, I agree. I miss the considerate person who would never miss the opportunity to be courteous. Not mean, just not particularly caring either so very different than he was before.

6:14 ndakmom: Jim- spent a wonderful weekend with H, he was here most of the weekend, H watched a movie with me on Saturday and even made dinner on Saturday without me even asking. Today I’ve had absolutely no contact, should I wait for him to contact me?

6:21 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:14 ndakmom: You are experiencing classic male and female differences. If a boy smiles at a junior high girl, she expects him to ask her for a date. Generally women project too much into small moves that men make. Your husband on the other hand is thinking, "wow, I spent all that time with her, now I don't have to contact her for several days or maybe even a couple of weeks." You can see that there is a vast difference between males and females. That's why it's important to keep you stability with God, and not on some small innuendo from your husband.

6:14 Still: ndakmom, Wow that sounds really good about this weekend.

6:15 bethel: cricket2, I think this was discussed when someone asked about Dr Dobson "Tough Love" book

6:15 sbky: Jim still.. we have recently been having some decent conversations.. about our son when he got into trouble and just now because of some insurance policies that came off his checking account. but that was ok.. he is gonna take care of it.. but it is still something we never talked about

6:18 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:15 sbky: it's a good sign that you're talking about some issues - be patient - if there are financial questions, check with your lawyer.

6:15 Cricket2: sbky - During mlc, they still yo-yo back and forth but when they are healed and work thru the mlc, many talk about how the warmth & good hearted person returns.

6:15 sbky: cricket I can’t wait..

6:16 Still: Me either!

6:16 sbky: still I can’t wait to weigh in again tomorrow

6:16 bethel: ndak, yeah!

6:17 Still: sbky....having a good week?? Woohoo!

6:17 Cricket2: Bethel - I know that Jim teaches us that when they come home, it's appropriate to set more boundaries and tougher, insisting on counseling, etc.

6:18 Still: Dr. Conway @ 6:16. I know you were talking to Koko about changing to meet the other's needs. I have tried so hard to do and be everything that my h has stated bothered him. He just appears to be so "checked out". How do I deal with that?

6:26 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:18 Still: Your husband apparently is quite depressed. And depressed people do not want to talk about what bothers them. Because that might lead to a conversation or confrontation. So he probably is not telling you what really bothers him. I strongly urge you to learn about your husband's needs from other sources, rather than from him directly. For example, if he feels that you wear clothing that looks really old and out of date, he may say to himself "I don't even want to bring it up because she will argue with me, or ask me to explain 'what's wrong with my clothes?'". That takes too much energy from him. He knows that If he says he wants more sex, or whatever, that you will likely argue with him - he doesn't have the energy for any of that - so learn from other sources such as our website, our Facilitators, other books like "His Needs Her Needs, "Men Are Like Waffles, Women Are Like Spaghetti".

6:18 Cricket2: sbky/Still - Those who's H's are home say there is still a lot of work when they first come home. They come home broken and damaged from mlc so it takes patience and work during the reconnection phase. This can take 1-2 yrs but worth it.

6:19 bethel: cricket, Jim - then I’m confused. We are in the end of d proceedings. How should I handle all the questions he continues to throw at me. Everything from taxes help to why I won't move?

6:20 Still: Cricket @ 6:18. I have wondered how this occurs when they never leave the home. I think my h is comfortable just living in a roommate situation. He has made no attempt to change anything. I don't know how this will change.

6:21 ndakmom: cricket- just having my H around most of the weekend gave me a small taste of what it will be like when he comes home, I know it won't be easy. For example when we came in from spending time outdoors with the kids yesterday, our 2 year old was in the middle of a meltdown from not having a nap and something irritated H, not sure what, but all of a sudden it was like he was having a tantrum just like our 2 year old. LOL

6:22 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: Welcome Drift. I’m Jim Conway, President of Midlife Dimensions. This room is here to encourage you and answer questions you have about your current situation. Important: Do NOT share personal information such as an email address, phone #, home address, or any names. Now, here's how to join in. 1) Type the name of the person you want to speak to before you type your entry. 2) You're limited to 250 keystrokes per entry. If your entry is long, then click "chat" to post it and start your next entry with the word "continued". 3) Use the words "All" if you have a general entry not directed to one person. 4) If you'd like to contact someone in the room, email or call us at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. or 714-768-1777. We'll have them contact you to exchange information.

6:23 ndakmom: Still and Bethel- thanks, it was the best weekend since H has left, we actually felt like a family again, definitely gave me hope and motivation to keep standing

6:23 Still: ndakmom, Saturday evening our twins got in an argument. My H couldn't deal with it and went to bed. Wouldn't even come down when a friend of his showed up. Odd behavior.

6:23 Cricket2: Still - They are still dealing with confusion and depression. Inside, your H knows that you are working really hard and sees your patience. As he works through this, there is still a real appreciation for your stand.

6:24 Swanlake: Still - Well you can't change him or what he is feeling right now, all you can do is work on changing yourself and meet his needs in the ways he allows, sometimes that is something as small as his laundry, as you change he will notice and will again desire to make changes in himself that will reconnect with you.

6:24 bethel: ndak, I’m so happy for you! PTL!

6:24 ndakmom: Jim- should I just step back and allow my H to make the moves on when he chooses to be here and not to be or is it okay to still invite him places with the family and to dinner and such

6:28 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:24 ndakmom: yes it is probably better for awhile to step back and let him make the move. But when he does want to be around, make those times very light, fun, positive, and happy.

6:25 ndakmom: still- I almost wonder if our 2 year old having a tantrum was just too much for H to take, because I really don't know what else would have set his behavior off

6:25 ndakmom: Bethel- thanks

6:26 koko: Jim. I guess that’s the part I need work at. being as patient as I can be. Sometimes seems like we are drifting apart more sometimes seems like we connect more. Should I initiate any physical contact?

6:29 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:26 koko: ask yourself the questions, as you look thru your wife's eyes, "what is it that she doesn't like about me?" You must be ruthlessly honest with yourself.

6:26 Cricket2: Bethel - One of our members, Dani, had her H file for D and as the process continued, he realized he was making a mistake. He began connecting with her and never completed the process. When he doubted himself, he connected more.

6:26 Cricket2: Bethel - Dani kept sending cute cards & emails to her H and would bring little gifts all thru this process.

6:27 Cricket2: ndakmom - Others have mentioned that. It is like they are spoiled kids too and have no patience for the real kids in the family.

6:28 Cricket2: ndakmom - They can't handle stress or pressure and blow really easy. It wasn’t you and he knows it, it just set him off.

6:28 Still: Swan/Cricket....I hope that he does appreciate all the little things. I still do all the household/wife duties. I have never stopped doing kind gestures for him. I have often wondered if he sees it, cares, or has no ability to appreciate on any level

6:28 ndakmom: Jim- H has been gone for nearly 4 mo., we have not touched since, not even a simple touch on the arm. Do you think it's okay to make some physical contact or even going as far as when he gives the kids a hug, to try to give him a hug as well?

6:31 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:28 ndakmom: sometimes when your husband is hugging the kids goodbye, it's possible to say let's do a group hug - your husband may tolerate that ,and it may open the door for future contact.

6:28 Swanlake: ndakmom - more likely he began to feel too comfortable and used the tantrum as an excuse. Often as a MLCer peeks out of the tunnel they don't go far from the entrance and the first sign of discomfort they duck back in, and it is usually more

6:29 faithfull: Jim I have not spoken to h in now a few month. My son 26 talks to him once in a while. The last time he spoke to him he told him he was doing great and I am not sure what else. My son said he was acting like a 20 year old and just never responded.

6:29 Cricket2: Faithful - Good to see you tonight. Great time for you to ask Jim some of your questions as far as your H's harassment/behavior

6:29 BlueSky: Jim, what do you think of the man who hasn't wavered once iota for getting a D, since before he blindsided me. Believe me we hardly ever fought or anything.

6:33 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:29 BlueSky: Maybe we need to talk again by phone about your issue.

6:29 Swanlake: ndakmom - continued -personal relationships that cause them to run, not so much children being children.

6:30 Cricket2: Drift - Welcome - I think you are new to our group but glad you found us. Dr. Jim Conway is an expert in midlife crisis & so wise in helping us with marital problems. Be sure to start with who you are asking your question of -you can use first name

6:30 Still: Dr. Conway. We have talked about my H and depression before. I am almost at my ideal body weight, had to buy all new clothes. I have always had a higher libido. Now, he jumps if I get too close....so I just do approach him for any affection.

6:35 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:30 Still: your husband is reacting as if he is getting emotional and sexual satisfaction from internet pornography and/or an affair. Solution: keep working at your changes and keep praying for God to intervene in his life. Your husband may not believe that the changes are going to stick.

6:30 BlueSky: Still, I just started reading the book "His needs Her Needs' that Jim is talking about. I sure wish I had all these books to read during the marriage. That is one thing I want to teach my kids is to never be complacent

6:31 ndakmom: Jim- when H does come around is it better to stay around him or to go off and do my own thing, leaving him alone time with the kids or maybe a little of both?

6:36 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:31 ndakmom: I would encourage you to play it as it unfolds. How did you react in these situations before all of this blew up? That may be a pattern for you know.

6:32 BlueSky: Swan, that reminds me of a gopher or whatever the other little critter that peeks out is

6:32 ndakmom: still- it's the same here with doing little things for H, since he has left he has had me buy him deodorant, razors, and just recently socks. LOL He also has started to bring his laundry over more frequently and I have folded it the past 2 times.

6:32 Still: ndakmom, I asked my husband about a year ago if I could sit next to him. He said with an irritated face, "If you must." I tried to kiss him once and he literally closed the car window and said, "no thanks." When I hugged him he was cold...ouch!!!

6:33 Cricket2: Still - It's okay to address Dr. Conway as Jim - It leave more room to type and he doesn't mind.

6:34 Swanlake: BlueSky - LOL - it is kind of like that, they peek out begin to feel the warmth of the light, then all those fears and insecurities inside of them that they have not dealt with start to bubble, anxiety takes over and they run back into the dark.

6:34 MarySarah: Still, Nadkmom & others If your H is civil & even kind considerate, or affectionate @ all, count those blessings & don't put up any wall. My H has NEVER even tried to be separate & alone, not even sitting down with a counselor for kids & co-parenting. My H won't even enter our home, can barely say hello when I answer phone & Tries to pull all our kids from me & pretend I NEVER existed. I am almost sure if anything bad happened to me, he'd actually be relieved or elated

6:34 CindyJ: Hello Hello!

6:34 Swanlake: CindyJ - Happy dancing today are you! Congrats

6:34 faithfull: Mine just went into hiding and we never hear from him.

6:34 Cricket2: Still - I’m sure that deep inside... maybe not a conscious level all the time, he does appreciate all you are doing and your patience. In time when he work through this, he really will appreciate it. Others who's H came out of this share they do.

6:35 BlueSky: ndak, anyway, I am enjoying it. It is a bit of an eye opener on how much sex they need

6:35 CindyJ: Swanlake, thank you. I’m just about to burst with happiness. Now....hopefully she'll have twins.

6:35 BlueSky: Jim, ugh that doesn't sound good

6:39 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:35 BlueSky: a phone session doesn't mean that your situation is desperate. It's simply that we can say a lot more over the phone than we can in a short chat room.

6:36 CindyJ: Swan....I'm not asking too much....just twins.

6:36 Still: Cricket @ 6:34. Thank you for your thoughts. I pray every day that my h will not see me as a burden to his life. Unfortunately, I think he has viewed me that way for quite some. Not a financial burden, an emotional burden.

6:36 MarySarah: Cindy Congrats SOOOO happy for you & yours

6:36 Cricket2: Cindy - I’m smiling ear to ear - I am so happy for you --- WOOOO HOOOOO --- As Joey would said, we're doing a happy dance with you. We will still keep praying though - that all goes well, for health & safety

6:36 steadfast: Cricket: for the first time last week, I told God that I didn't want my h back unless he could give me the man I married or double fold. All the while talking and laughing with the lawyers in these meetings, he tries to discredit my medical condition

6:36 sbky: all sorry I got a phone call. I am back.

6:37 CindyJ: MarySarah, Cricket, and all....thank you for your prayers and for being excited with me.

6:37 ndakmom: still- I have only tried to hug H once since he dropped the bomb and it was right after he gave me the speech and he just said no. When he goes to leave he'll say okay, give me hugs, and I have so much wanted to ask do I get one too? LOL

6:37 Cricket2: Still - Do you mean because your past battles with depression? He may but during mlc, he's seeing how difficult that can be. As he sees your changes & steadiness, he's appreciating that even more.

6:37 Swanlake: CindyJ - what is it the Word tells us, ASK - Ask, Seek, Knock - well ask repeatedly, seek the joy of grandparenthood, and knock until you knock the door down.

6:38 CindyJ: Cricket, Thanks for the continued prayer as she isn't totally out of the woods yet and has to take it easy.

6:38 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: Cindy - Lisa just shared your great and exciting news with me. That's such a wonderful blessing. We are so happy about what's happening with your life because grandkids are lots of fun! And grandkids like their grandparents a lot better than they like their own parents. :o)

6:38 sbky: cindy j I see from the emails congratulations is in order

6:38 Still: Jim @ 6:35. I know he has signs of an affair. He has told me that he has never been unfaithful...though he thinks about it frequently. He is still very involved with church and I have wanted to believe that keeps him from acting. I just don't know.

6:41 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:38 Still: I’m glad your husband is involved at church, it would be helpful if he could also be involved in a men's accountability group. Are there other men in the church that you know who could invite your husband into that kind of group?

6:38 Cricket2: Steadfast - That's why I pray for God's will in my life, for my H's healing (emotionally, physically and spiritually)

6:38 ndakmom: CindyJ- I never got a chance to respond to your new in ESG, but wanted to pass along my Congrats!!! That is wonderful news!!!

6:38 steadfast: to them and that I don't need those medical expenses, and starts to tell stories about petty things I don't remember. It’s hard to see him stoop so low. Wants me to pay another 10,000 toward s education yet he opted out of child support and s continues

6:39 Still: MarySarah, I am so sorry you have gone through so much. I can't imagine the pain.

6:39 CindyJ: Jim, I heard that too! And I can't wait to have fun with him/her/them.

6:41 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:39 CindyJ: We all will be eager to follow this event with you.

6:39 Cricket2: Cindy - I’m copying and pasting your comments above with names mentioned so Lisa or Swan can fix them. But you are very welcome.

6:40 Still: Cindy, I had twins resulting from IVF. They can tell really early in the pregnancy if they are twins or a singleton.

6:40 CindyJ: sbky, ndakmom, all....thank you....

6:40 ndakmom: MarySarah- (((HUGS)))) I’m so sorry. How long has it been since H left?

6:40 BlueSky: Jim, whew, you scared me there.

6:40 CindyJ: Still that's what she had so I hope we find out soon.

6:40 steadfast: Cricket; to go to summer school to do 8 mos each year in 12 mos. Anyways, God spoke to me from the Christian song about God's mercy and no not letting go. Tried to share that with a friend and she just thinks it's time to move on especially since h

6:41 MarySarah: Still 6:39 thank you for your kindness!

6:41 steadfast: Cricket; wants a divorce now.

6:41 koko: Jim. would a phone conversation with you help my situation

6:43 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:41 koko: Yes, a phone session gives us the opportunity to talk in more depth than the limited space in the chat room. Lisa posted information above. You can also find more info on phone session on the website.

6:41 ndakmom: Jim- before H left we had really grown apart, for instance when H would go outside with kids, most of the time I would do my own thing, this weekend when H was out with the kids, I gave him some time alone with them, then I joined them. He seems to enjoy my presence, I mean he chit chats with me for the most part, when he becomes withdrawn, I usually take it as my cue to go do something on my own and allow him time alone with the kids

6:44 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:41 ndakmom: I think your example of being there or not being there shows a good balance and sensitivity on your part.

6:42 Still: Cricket @ 6:37. Maybe because of my own depression. I don't even take medication anymore. There was a time when I was very complacent, overmedicated, obese, and very dependent. The last two years I have changed immensely.

6:42 Cricket2: Steadfast - STOP talking to friends about that - I always replied to friends that I am moving forward but I was nowhere ready to date. I'd tell them I’m taking time for healing and to work on myself. Otherwise they just feel a need to fix us.

6:42 MarySarah: ndakmom 2 years. Our 25th this year & dated 2 yrs before I miss him & love him, but the cruelty is almost unbearable @ times. I don't know why I ever thought he'd be different than his family they all are image, surface, throw away relationship types

6:43 sbky: still I have changed a lot. I believe I am more the woman my h thought he was marrying

6:43 Cricket2: Still - The thing to remind yourself is that your H was there for you during your painful journey and now is your time to be there for him. It usually takes time for them to trust our changes & that we won't slip back to old ways.

6:45 koko: All. anyone experiencing W in MLC notice a lot of H in Mlc would like to share some thoughts?

6:45 Still: Jim at 6:41. Our church is very small...no men's accountability group. He has done the typical...leadership roles to committee involvement to last pew before he stops attending, but he has continued even the weekly relationship Bible Study.

6:48 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:45 Still: Are there guys in the weekly Bible Study who might be able to deepen a friendship with your husband, and move towards more accountability in the future?

6:45 MarySarah: Ndakmom & all I have to always emphasize to kids as they get married that after God, the spouse comes first, period..... It is very hard to be replaced by your kids, then OW & then for our spouses to be able to alienate kids from us It's control & manipulation of anyone who they can get on their "side"

6:45 steadfast: Cricket: The friend I spoke to has always believed in praying for h to come back and believed in miracles--that's why she caught me off guard. It's like everyone has given up except for one who loves long way from me. I was angry and felt like I never

6:45 Cricket2: Sbky - Problem is that they often say-OH SURE, now you make these changes when I’ve decided to move on, but you wouldn't before. They also think if they come back, things will go back to the way they were. In time they believe us, but it takes time

6:46 sbky: steadfast. I feel like people think I am crazy.. waiting for h to wake up..

6:47 steadfast: Cricket; wanted to see or talk to h again but then I said that's the song God gave me. She wasn't receptive. It was very discouraging to know that even the few who did believe for restoration have given up

6:47 sbky: cricket the changes wasn’t for him so if he doesn’t notice or care. I am ok

6:48 steadfast: sbky: Yea, I know, they just think that we refuse to accept the truth.

6:48 Cricket2: Steadfast - When my H got his divorce & married the OW, my pastor and close Christian friend and others said to me - You are released now (because of D & H's marriage to OW). I said I still felt called to stand and they seemed to accept that.

6:48 bethel: sbky, Surprising others think we should be "over" h in months after being married for so long. I starting to tell folks that I am not moving on yet but I am letting go.

6:49 MarySarah: Cricket & SBKY 6:45 Mine only said that once, but yes, He admitted to complaining & nagging often to relieve stress & saying unkind things only towards end did I get defensive, but I told H I know how not to now ...Oh, now you change he said...

6:49 BlueSky: Jim, do you have any short thoughts on my question earlier at all?

6:52 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:49 BlueSky: I’m not sure what question you mean. (and I never have short thoughts) :o)

6:49 sbky: bethel I use the saying "I am moving forward." that doesn’t mean I am moving on

6:49 Cricket2: Steadfast - It's probably also because of how nasty he'd gotten with you. Friend/family who really care and love us have trouble with seeing us hurt. When we cry on their shoulders about the cruel things our H's do, they get angry for us.

6:49 koko: Jim W started attending church a while ago.1st by herself then with kids. Says something she wants to do. Says I only want to because she is doing it. How do I let her know I want and need to go, I need God in my life, and taking my kids w/out me hurts

6:53 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:49 koko: I’m glad she is going to church, let's share some more when we talk.

6:49 Still: Jim at 6:48. One of the men is my h oldest friend. He is about 25 years his senior, but has always been a strong mentor for him. He knows of our situation and has tried to speak with my H. He says that he has walls up and won't even discuss it.

6:54 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:49 Still: sometimes a larger group retreat with several churches can help men who are a little bit afraid to open up.

6:50 Cricket2: MarySarah - Yes that's been said by many. I can understand that they feel we only made changes because they left & that it would take time to trust changes are real.

6:50 steadfast: Cricket; It is good that they accepted your stand. I think the pastor is ok with my stand as I was crying at the altar one Sunday and he knows h wants D. He prayed that "we are not without hope" which to me said keep looking to the Lord and don't

6:50 MarySarah: Jim after almost 2 years & Nobody has approached my H in any gentle correction, not anyone in church, even pastor. Scripture says go to them alone, then 2 or 3, then Elders, then entire church, then treat like tax collector Shouldn't our pastor @ least try to approach my H as the scriptures say? My H has said it.... You know how I get when I don't get what I want & I ALWAYS get what I want. Recently he took our son & said he was living with him I have full custody, I picked up son & H sent police. Wasn't worried all times he was out town or about our dtr, just son because he's the next target to be alienated from me after H was successful in that with oldest dtr. The cop & lawyer reprimanded H & son still lives here

6:56 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:50 MarySarah,: Sometimes I tell people different things because their situations are different. If your husband already thinks you are too pushy, then talking to men in the church will appear to be controlling.

6:51 bethel: sbky, I like it!

6:51 Cricket2: Bethel/All - Most everyone seem to understand that we need to take time for our healing. I told one person that if my H died, they would understand that I'd need time to grieve/heal, etc. That D is even harder. Most get that.

6:51 sbky: bethel it is the truth. I have forced myself to move forward. but moving on, closing that door. I am just not there

6:51 BlueSky: all, it is a holiday time again. I am not sure what to do about church on Sunday with h. We used to go as a family, he joined us at Christmas, but I don't think he has gone since. I am not wild about him joining us this weekend because of his choices

6:52 steadfast: Cricket: lose hope. So I guess, it's the pastor and 1 dear previous pastor's wife out West who are still not losing the faith. It's sad though when others prayed for restoration and now they have dropped off like flies

6:52 Cricket2: Steadfast - My pastor understood that I needed to follow what I felt led by the Lord to do.

6:52 Swanlake: sbky - moving forward, good it is a good place to be, isn't it

6:52 sbky: swanlake. yes.. that is the only thing we can do in this situation..

6:53 Cricket2: Steadfast - Again with the things you've shared about how cruel and hurtful your H has been &what's happened in the court process - this makes it harder for them to forgive

6:53 ndakmom: blue- I’m going to my Dad's this weekend with my kids, I told H about it and said he was welcomed to join us or to even drive down on Sunday to join us for Easter dinner, he said he would see. I figure the offer is out there, and won't pressure any decision, if he chooses to join us, that would be wonderful, if not, then I’m okay with that too. I know every situation is different, but that's how I dealt with it.

6:53 koko: Jim, thank you I will set up the appointment

6:54 sbky: all this weekend is my h's birthday...

6:54 Cricket2: Cindy - Do you know how far along your d is - are we talking weeks?

6:54 BlueSky: Jim, okay, I asked about my h never wavering about D since he told me he was unhappy. You just thought we ought to talk. I was wondering if you had a small insight

6:58 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:54 BlueSky: sometimes when a man makes statements about getting a divorce, he is trying to pressure his wife for changes without actually asking her to change. Usually by the time a man is thinking about divorce, he feels that the situation is pretty hopeless.

6:54 steadfast: Cricket: Yes, friends get angry when they see how h treats me . I don't tell the world only a few know details but I think I will stop sharing anything with them.

6:54 Cricket2: sbky - Can you send a cute bday card from you and your D?

6:54 MarySarah: koko 6:49 Can you talk to your wife about wanting to be the spiritual leader for them that God wants & calls for you to be?

6:55 sbky: cricket she bought one from her and her brother..

6:55 Cricket2: Steadfast - I just mean that those who changed in supporting your stand probably did that because of how he's treated you &things you shared. It's because they love you

6:55 CindyJ: Sorry everyone but I am getting phone calls. You would think that this is a miracle. HEY it is!!!!!!! : ) Good night all and have a blessed week!! And I am thanking my God all over the place!!

6:56 Cricket2: sbky - Would she mind if you signed it or can you get one for your son to send & you sign too?

6:56 MarySarah: Still 6:49 Keep praying for opportunities for soft heart, open eyes & ears & that friend to NOT give up or judge H while ministering this is good. Nobody talks to my H

6:56 Still: MarySarah....I'm sure that God talks to your H.....but will he listen....

6:56 sbky: cricket she wouldn’t care if I signed it. should I

6:57 Cricket2: Sbky - YES I'd sign it too, just so that all three of your signatures are there

6:57 steadfast: Cricket; Yes , I know they love me and care. as far as h, it is hard to see him across the table, 2 feet from me and hear the things he is saying. It is even more a challenge to my faith because. everything screams at me where is my

6:57 MarySarah: Cricket 6:50 I understand that too, but it's still an excuse. ALL relationships have some conflict. It's avoidance that is the main prob. Plus I was the only one to guess that might be one problem & H went with it. Never complained anything specific

6:57 Swanlake: MarySarah - God talks to your husband and that is the important one, all the others might be able to speak to him, but he will most likely rebuke them and turn from church completely to avoid them interfering in his life. Leave it in God's hands, He is very capable and can be ignored for a season, but never goes away.

6:57 sbky: cricket I think it says how great of a dad he is. but I guess I could be saying that too

6:58 Cricket2: ALL - I’m excited about an opportunity to go to Italy for 10 days in October with a group of friends from my Chamber. Hopefully retreat won't fall at that time though.

6:58 sbky: cricket I am so ready for retreat..

6:58 steadfast: Cricket; h . This cool guy sits there like he has it altogether. It is hard to believe anything can change with h but all things are possible with God.

6:58 Still: Cricket at 6:58 that sounds awesome.

6:58 Cricket2: sbky - YES you could sign it too... As long as it's not mushy

6:59 sbky: cricket I will read it and see..

6:59 Cricket2: sbky/Still - Yes my Dad's side of family are Swiss Italian so it would feel like connecting with my family's history.

7:00 MarySarah: Jim My H thinks anyone who doesn't give him his way all the time should be discarded. The level of control he exerts still on the kids & the bullying he does with me is unbelievable. The only thing I could do is die to not be a problem for him

7:00 Cricket2: All - Have a good night and remember chat Wednesday night.

7:00 BlueSky: Jim that is it exactly. I was real sick with depression when his started. But he never said a world. So I have made it without him and changed as soon as he told me what some issues were. But he won't change the hopelessness.

7:01 sbky: cricket I went to Italy between my freshman and sophomore year

7:01 Cricket2: sbky - I’ve never been so it would be exciting.

7:01 Still: Good night, all.

7:01 MarySarah: Still 6:56 I think my H has run from God most of his life. He would of course deny it. He says he knows it's wrong according to Bible, but it's happening & that my soul is safe, what am I worried for, yet maybe God gave him ow.....PLEAZZZZZZEEEEE

7:01 Cricket2: Good night all.

7:01 Cricket2: Woops - GOOD night all.

7:01 BlueSky: Cricket, how exciting for you.

7:02 steadfast: All: goodnight and sweet dreams

7:02 MarySarah: Swan 6:57 I know you are right, God dealt with Saul, Nebuchadnezzar & MANY others!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

7:02 sbky: I am gonna head to bed. night all

7:02 Swanlake: Goodnight all, see you on Wednesday

7:03 MarySarah: Jim what does it mean if our H's never seem to "cycle" they have covert depression if any & replay seems to go on forever?

7:03 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: Thanks everyone for being in the chat room today. If you got lost during the chat process, check back later to find the edited chat dialogue posted in the archives, there you can read it at your own pace. It's been fun talking with you today. We, at Midlife Dimensions, will remember you and your marriages in prayer throughout the week. Warmly in Christ, Jim.

7:04 ndakmom: good night everyone!

7:04 MAS: Hi MarySarah. I am really heartbroken about all you are going through. My prayers are with you.

7:05 BlueSky: Did Jim leave?

7:05 MarySarah: Well goodnight all & God bless you all with pleasant dreams & sweet, peaceful sleep!

7:05 MarySarah: MAS Thanks Miss you, praying you are well

7:06 MAS: Thank you, Mary Sarah. God bless you as well. Good night all.

7:06 LisaK [Programmer]: 7:00 BlueSky: It's in God's timing, not ours.

7:07 MarySarah: Lisa I guess I wondered if they stay in earlier stages long time, if they are more likely to get "stuck" or can go through other stages faster?

7:07 MarySarah: Drift, Sorry I didn't get to chat or know you yet. Blessings & welcome

7:08 LisaK [Programmer]: "We can rejoice when we run into problems... they help us learn to be patient. And patience develops strength of character in us and helps us trust God more each time we use it until finally our hope and faith are strong and steady." Romans 5:3-4 God is at work in and around you. You may not see His hand, hear His voice or even understand His process, but you can rest assured that you can trust His heart. Remember, every problem points to a promise.

7:09 LisaK [Programmer]: 7:07 MarySarah: Each man's is different, there's no set time in each. Depends on how much God has to teach him, and you, during that time.

7:10 MarySarah: Lisa Yes & I think longer they've been running, more wounds they have & earlier their damage, the further they have to come But Nothing is Impossible with God I know this!

7:10 LisaK [Programmer]: Dear Lord, please protect the people who attended tonight's chat, and all who read it in the archives, from the works of Satan, who is always trying to bring us down. Please fill them with Your hope and assurance that Your will be done in their lives, and help them to let go and let You be in control. In Jesus' Name. Amen.

6:14 ndakmom: Jim- spent a wonderful weekend with H, he was here most of the weekend, H watched a movie with me on Saturday and even made dinner on Saturday without me even asking. Today I’ve had absolutely no contact, should I wait for him to contact me?

6:21 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:14 ndakmom: You are experiencing classic male and female differences. If a boy smiles at a junior high girl, she expects him to ask her for a date. Generally women project too much into small moves that men make. Your husband on the other hand is thinking, "wow, I spent all that time with her, now I don't have to contact her for several days or maybe even a couple of weeks." You can see that there is a vast difference between males and females. That's why it's important to keep you stability with God, and not on some small innuendo from your husband.

6:04 LisaK [Programmer]: Hi Chat Room Guests. I’m Lisa, the Office Manager for Midlife Dimensions. I enjoy serving the Lord through our Chat Room Ministry which has helped so many people through the tough times of midlife crisis. Remember, Jim always offers his live counseling in the chat room without cost. If you wish to make a tax-deductible donation to our ministry to support the Website/Chat Room upkeep, please do so at www.Midlife.com. Thank you. Jim will be online with us momentarily, he will read your questions and dictate his replies to me so I can type them for you to read. Jim has time for all questions that are posted before the end of the hour. Thanks for understanding.

6:04 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: Hi Everyone, Sorry I’m here late, I was on a long distance call. What should we talk about?

6:04 Cricket2: Hi Lisa & Still - How are you tonight?

6:05 Still: Hi Cricket....just fine, and you?

6:05 Swanlake: Hello all, hope you are all doing good and experiencing the many blessings God has for you.

6:06 BlueSky: Hi Lisa, Cricket, Still Swan and Koko

6:06 Still: Hi Blue!

6:06 ndakmom: Hi everyone!

6:06 Cricket2: Still - I’m doing well, it was a day of many errands but felt good to get things accomplished.

6:07 koko: hi everybody

6:07 Still: Cricket, I would imagine most of your days are filled with errands....cyber and otherwise. :-)

6:07 Cricket2: Hi BlueSky, Ndakmom & koko - Good to see you all. We have some more rain coming in tonight, drizzle today but we can't complain on the West Coast with all the weather they've had through so much of the country.

6:08 ndakmom: cricket- we had a beautiful day here, was able to spend some time outside with the kids, it was great!

6:08 bethel: hi all, storm coming in now and expecting 100 mph winds

6:08 Cricket2: Still - YES it's to a point I don't count the cyber ones. I had planned to meet a friend to play golf but with the weather change, golf was cancelled and I got many things accomplished for other projects.

6:08 ndakmom: bethel- wow, what state are you in?

6:09 sbky: hello

6:09 Cricket2: ndakmom - We'd had great weather last week and it was so nice to be outside so I can't complain.

6:09 bethel: ndak NV

6:09 bethel: hi Dr Jim

6:09 Still: Cricket, Sounds like God literally sent you a "rain check".

6:09 Cricket2: Ndakmom - It just lifts the spirits when we get some good weather after a long winter.

6:10 ndakmom: cricket- yes, I totally agree, especially where I live, we spend most of the winter indoors

6:10 Cricket2: Still - You are right. I'd actually felt like I shouldn't have gone but the friend really encouraged me. So this way I didn't feel like I let her down.

6:10 sbky: Jim encouragement. can they really change from this no caring person back to a loving person it is so hard to believe sometimes

6:13 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:10 sbky: Keep remembering that your situation is very much like looking at the stock market. If you watch it moment by moment, it jumps up and down and can drive you crazy. But if you look at it over a period of 6 months or over a year, then you can see a gradual pattern of change. Keep asking God to give you a long view of this situation.

6:10 Cricket2: Bethel - Hope you're feeling a little better this evening.

6:10 Cricket2: Hi MAS & Evaline, Sbky - good to see you all.

6:11 BlueSky: all, I hope Saam shows up, I want to know how her weekend went with her h.

6:11 bethel: Dr Jim, last week you mentioned, we should become tougher with our interactions with ex. could you provide a couple examples

6:15 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:11 bethel: 1st, generally try to stall divorce proceedings as long as you can. 2nd, when your husband is ready to come back, make sure you go through adequate joint counseling so that you work through all of the previous problems.

6:11 evaline: Hello, All

6:11 Cricket2: BlueSky - I sent Tamashii a reminder so hopefully he'll join us too.

6:11 Cricket2: BlueSky - Only thing is that I remember his martial arts class it tonight.

6:12 BlueSky: Cricket, good thing, cuz I forgot, I am multitasking right now

6:12 MAS: Hello, Cricket. Hello all.

6:12 bethel: cricket, I hanging in there. Since a little down but God has been good. I got the house in the pre d hearing and refinance @ 4.65%

6:12 koko: Jim is it an advantage to be living together even as roomates,if so what are they?

6:16 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:12 koko: Living in the same house has the advantage of not having to explain to all of the family and friends your struggle. However, unless each of you are growing and changing to more adequately meet each other's needs, then you will likely keep drifting apart. So the question is "not if it's ok to be roommates" - but rather "are you changing to meet each other's needs?"

6:13 BlueSky: bethel, great rate! I think I am going to have to do that too.

6:13 Cricket2: Bethel - Do you mean after D we should be tougher in our interaction with our spouses? I wonder if you misunderstood. I think Jim tells us to still be friendly and warm, keeping connected is good.

6:13 Still: sbky, I agree. I miss the considerate person who would never miss the opportunity to be courteous. Not mean, just not particularly caring either so very different than he was before.

6:14 ndakmom: Jim- spent a wonderful weekend with H, he was here most of the weekend, H watched a movie with me on Saturday and even made dinner on Saturday without me even asking. Today I’ve had absolutely no contact, should I wait for him to contact me?

6:21 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:14 ndakmom: You are experiencing classic male and female differences. If a boy smiles at a junior high girl, she expects him to ask her for a date. Generally women project too much into small moves that men make. Your husband on the other hand is thinking, "wow, I spent all that time with her, now I don't have to contact her for several days or maybe even a couple of weeks." You can see that there is a vast difference between males and females. That's why it's important to keep you stability with God, and not on some small innuendo from your husband.

6:14 Still: ndakmom, Wow that sounds really good about this weekend.

6:15 bethel: cricket2, I think this was discussed when someone asked about Dr Dobson "Tough Love" book

6:15 sbky: Jim still.. we have recently been having some decent conversations.. about our son when he got into trouble and just now because of some insurance policies that came off his checking account. but that was ok.. he is gonna take care of it.. but it is still something we never talked about

6:18 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:15 sbky: it's a good sign that you're talking about some issues - be patient - if there are financial questions, check with your lawyer.

6:15 Cricket2: sbky - During mlc, they still yo-yo back and forth but when they are healed and work thru the mlc, many talk about how the warmth & good hearted person returns.

6:15 sbky: cricket I can’t wait..

6:16 Still: Me either!

6:16 sbky: still I can’t wait to weigh in again tomorrow

6:16 bethel: ndak, yeah!

6:17 Still: sbky....having a good week?? Woohoo!

6:17 Cricket2: Bethel - I know that Jim teaches us that when they come home, it's appropriate to set more boundaries and tougher, insisting on counseling, etc.

6:18 Still: Dr. Conway @ 6:16. I know you were talking to Koko about changing to meet the other's needs. I have tried so hard to do and be everything that my h has stated bothered him. He just appears to be so "checked out". How do I deal with that?

6:26 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:18 Still: Your husband apparently is quite depressed. And depressed people do not want to talk about what bothers them. Because that might lead to a conversation or confrontation. So he probably is not telling you what really bothers him. I strongly urge you to learn about your husband's needs from other sources, rather than from him directly. For example, if he feels that you wear clothing that looks really old and out of date, he may say to himself "I don't even want to bring it up because she will argue with me, or ask me to explain 'what's wrong with my clothes?'". That takes too much energy from him. He knows that If he says he wants more sex, or whatever, that you will likely argue with him - he doesn't have the energy for any of that - so learn from other sources such as our website, our Facilitators, other books like "His Needs Her Needs, "Men Are Like Waffles, Women Are Like Spaghetti".

6:18 Cricket2: sbky/Still - Those who's H's are home say there is still a lot of work when they first come home. They come home broken and damaged from mlc so it takes patience and work during the reconnection phase. This can take 1-2 yrs but worth it.

6:19 bethel: cricket, Jim - then I’m confused. We are in the end of d proceedings. How should I handle all the questions he continues to throw at me. Everything from taxes help to why I won't move?

6:20 Still: Cricket @ 6:18. I have wondered how this occurs when they never leave the home. I think my h is comfortable just living in a roommate situation. He has made no attempt to change anything. I don't know how this will change.

6:21 ndakmom: cricket- just having my H around most of the weekend gave me a small taste of what it will be like when he comes home, I know it won't be easy. For example when we came in from spending time outdoors with the kids yesterday, our 2 year old was in the middle of a meltdown from not having a nap and something irritated H, not sure what, but all of a sudden it was like he was having a tantrum just like our 2 year old. LOL

6:22 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: Welcome Drift. I’m Jim Conway, President of Midlife Dimensions. This room is here to encourage you and answer questions you have about your current situation. Important: Do NOT share personal information such as an email address, phone #, home address, or any names. Now, here's how to join in. 1) Type the name of the person you want to speak to before you type your entry. 2) You're limited to 250 keystrokes per entry. If your entry is long, then click "chat" to post it and start your next entry with the word "continued". 3) Use the words "All" if you have a general entry not directed to one person. 4) If you'd like to contact someone in the room, email or call us at Conway@midlife.com or 714-768-1777. We'll have them contact you to exchange information.

6:23 ndakmom: Still and Bethel- thanks, it was the best weekend since H has left, we actually felt like a family again, definitely gave me hope and motivation to keep standing

6:23 Still: ndakmom, Saturday evening our twins got in an argument. My H couldn't deal with it and went to bed. Wouldn't even come down when a friend of his showed up. Odd behavior.

6:23 Cricket2: Still - They are still dealing with confusion and depression. Inside, your H knows that you are working really hard and sees your patience. As he works through this, there is still a real appreciation for your stand.

6:24 Swanlake: Still - Well you can't change him or what he is feeling right now, all you can do is work on changing yourself and meet his needs in the ways he allows, sometimes that is something as small as his laundry, as you change he will notice and will again desire to make changes in himself that will reconnect with you.

6:24 bethel: ndak, I’m so happy for you! PTL!

6:24 ndakmom: Jim- should I just step back and allow my H to make the moves on when he chooses to be here and not to be or is it okay to still invite him places with the family and to dinner and such

6:28 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:24 ndakmom: yes it is probably better for awhile to step back and let him make the move. But when he does want to be around, make those times very light, fun, positive, and happy.

6:25 ndakmom: still- I almost wonder if our 2 year old having a tantrum was just too much for H to take, because I really don't know what else would have set his behavior off

6:25 ndakmom: Bethel- thanks

6:26 koko: Jim. I guess that’s the part I need work at. being as patient as I can be. Sometimes seems like we are drifting apart more sometimes seems like we connect more. Should I initiate any physical contact?

6:29 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:26 koko: ask yourself the questions, as you look thru your wife's eyes, "what is it that she doesn't like about me?" You must be ruthlessly honest with yourself.

6:26 Cricket2: Bethel - One of our members, Dani, had her H file for D and as the process continued, he realized he was making a mistake. He began connecting with her and never completed the process. When he doubted himself, he connected more.

6:26 Cricket2: Bethel - Dani kept sending cute cards & emails to her H and would bring little gifts all thru this process.

6:27 Cricket2: ndakmom - Others have mentioned that. It is like they are spoiled kids too and have no patience for the real kids in the family.

6:28 Cricket2: ndakmom - They can't handle stress or pressure and blow really easy. It wasn’t you and he knows it, it just set him off.

6:28 Still: Swan/Cricket....I hope that he does appreciate all the little things. I still do all the household/wife duties. I have never stopped doing kind gestures for him. I have often wondered if he sees it, cares, or has no ability to appreciate on any level

6:28 ndakmom: Jim- H has been gone for nearly 4 mo., we have not touched since, not even a simple touch on the arm. Do you think it's okay to make some physical contact or even going as far as when he gives the kids a hug, to try to give him a hug as well?

6:31 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:28 ndakmom: sometimes when your husband is hugging the kids goodbye, it's possible to say let's do a group hug - your husband may tolerate that ,and it may open the door for future contact.

6:28 Swanlake: ndakmom - more likely he began to feel too comfortable and used the tantrum as an excuse. Often as a MLCer peeks out of the tunnel they don't go far from the entrance and the first sign of discomfort they duck back in, and it is usually more

6:29 faithfull: Jim I have not spoken to h in now a few month. My son 26 talks to him once in a while. The last time he spoke to him he told him he was doing great and I am not sure what else. My son said he was acting like a 20 year old and just never responded.

6:29 Cricket2: Faithful - Good to see you tonight. Great time for you to ask Jim some of your questions as far as your H's harassment/behavior

6:29 BlueSky: Jim, what do you think of the man who hasn't wavered once iota for getting a D, since before he blindsided me. Believe me we hardly ever fought or anything.

6:33 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:29 BlueSky: Maybe we need to talk again by phone about your issue.

6:29 Swanlake: ndakmom - continued -personal relationships that cause them to run, not so much children being children.

6:30 Cricket2: Drift - Welcome - I think you are new to our group but glad you found us. Dr. Jim Conway is an expert in midlife crisis & so wise in helping us with marital problems. Be sure to start with who you are asking your question of -you can use first name

6:30 Still: Dr. Conway. We have talked about my H and depression before. I am almost at my ideal body weight, had to buy all new clothes. I have always had a higher libido. Now, he jumps if I get too close....so I just do approach him for any affection.

6:35 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:30 Still: your husband is reacting as if he is getting emotional and sexual satisfaction from internet pornography and/or an affair. Solution: keep working at your changes and keep praying for God to intervene in his life. Your husband may not believe that the changes are going to stick.

6:30 BlueSky: Still, I just started reading the book "His needs Her Needs' that Jim is talking about. I sure wish I had all these books to read during the marriage. That is one thing I want to teach my kids is to never be complacent

6:31 ndakmom: Jim- when H does come around is it better to stay around him or to go off and do my own thing, leaving him alone time with the kids or maybe a little of both?

6:36 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:31 ndakmom: I would encourage you to play it as it unfolds. How did you react in these situations before all of this blew up? That may be a pattern for you know.

6:32 BlueSky: Swan, that reminds me of a gopher or whatever the other little critter that peeks out is

6:32 ndakmom: still- it's the same here with doing little things for H, since he has left he has had me buy him deodorant, razors, and just recently socks. LOL He also has started to bring his laundry over more frequently and I have folded it the past 2 times.

6:32 Still: ndakmom, I asked my husband about a year ago if I could sit next to him. He said with an irritated face, "If you must." I tried to kiss him once and he literally closed the car window and said, "no thanks." When I hugged him he was cold...ouch!!!

6:33 Cricket2: Still - It's okay to address Dr. Conway as Jim - It leave more room to type and he doesn't mind.

6:34 Swanlake: BlueSky - LOL - it is kind of like that, they peek out begin to feel the warmth of the light, then all those fears and insecurities inside of them that they have not dealt with start to bubble, anxiety takes over and they run back into the dark.

6:34 MarySarah: Still, Nadkmom & others If your H is civil & even kind considerate, or affectionate @ all, count those blessings & don't put up any wall. My H has NEVER even tried to be separate & alone, not even sitting down with a counselor for kids & co-parenting. My H won't even enter our home, can barely say hello when I answer phone & Tries to pull all our kids from me & pretend I NEVER existed. I am almost sure if anything bad happened to me, he'd actually be relieved or elated

6:34 CindyJ: Hello Hello!

6:34 Swanlake: CindyJ - Happy dancing today are you! Congrats

6:34 faithfull: Mine just went into hiding and we never hear from him.

6:34 Cricket2: Still - I’m sure that deep inside... maybe not a conscious level all the time, he does appreciate all you are doing and your patience. In time when he work through this, he really will appreciate it. Others who's H came out of this share they do.

6:35 BlueSky: ndak, anyway, I am enjoying it. It is a bit of an eye opener on how much sex they need

6:35 CindyJ: Swanlake, thank you. I’m just about to burst with happiness. Now....hopefully she'll have twins.

6:35 BlueSky: Jim, ugh that doesn't sound good

6:39 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:35 BlueSky: a phone session doesn't mean that your situation is desperate. It's simply that we can say a lot more over the phone than we can in a short chat room.

6:36 CindyJ: Swan....I'm not asking too much....just twins.

6:36 Still: Cricket @ 6:34. Thank you for your thoughts. I pray every day that my h will not see me as a burden to his life. Unfortunately, I think he has viewed me that way for quite some. Not a financial burden, an emotional burden.

6:36 MarySarah: Cindy Congrats SOOOO happy for you & yours

6:36 Cricket2: Cindy - I’m smiling ear to ear - I am so happy for you --- WOOOO HOOOOO --- As Joey would said, we're doing a happy dance with you. We will still keep praying though - that all goes well, for health & safety

6:36 steadfast: Cricket: for the first time last week, I told God that I didn't want my h back unless he could give me the man I married or double fold. All the while talking and laughing with the lawyers in these meetings, he tries to discredit my medical condition

6:36 sbky: all sorry I got a phone call. I am back.

6:37 CindyJ: MarySarah, Cricket, and all....thank you for your prayers and for being excited with me.

6:37 ndakmom: still- I have only tried to hug H once since he dropped the bomb and it was right after he gave me the speech and he just said no. When he goes to leave he'll say okay, give me hugs, and I have so much wanted to ask do I get one too? LOL

6:37 Cricket2: Still - Do you mean because your past battles with depression? He may but during mlc, he's seeing how difficult that can be. As he sees your changes & steadiness, he's appreciating that even more.

6:37 Swanlake: CindyJ - what is it the Word tells us, ASK - Ask, Seek, Knock - well ask repeatedly, seek the joy of grandparenthood, and knock until you knock the door down.

6:38 CindyJ: Cricket, Thanks for the continued prayer as she isn't totally out of the woods yet and has to take it easy.

6:38 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: Cindy - Lisa just shared your great and exciting news with me. That's such a wonderful blessing. We are so happy about what's happening with your life because grandkids are lots of fun! And grandkids like their grandparents a lot better than they like their own parents. :o)

6:38 sbky: cindy j I see from the emails congratulations is in order

6:38 Still: Jim @ 6:35. I know he has signs of an affair. He has told me that he has never been unfaithful...though he thinks about it frequently. He is still very involved with church and I have wanted to believe that keeps him from acting. I just don't know.

6:41 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:38 Still: I’m glad your husband is involved at church, it would be helpful if he could also be involved in a men's accountability group. Are there other men in the church that you know who could invite your husband into that kind of group?

6:38 Cricket2: Steadfast - That's why I pray for God's will in my life, for my H's healing (emotionally, physically and spiritually)

6:38 ndakmom: CindyJ- I never got a chance to respond to your new in ESG, but wanted to pass along my Congrats!!! That is wonderful news!!!

6:38 steadfast: to them and that I don't need those medical expenses, and starts to tell stories about petty things I don't remember. It’s hard to see him stoop so low. Wants me to pay another 10,000 toward s education yet he opted out of child support and s continues

6:39 Still: MarySarah, I am so sorry you have gone through so much. I can't imagine the pain.

6:39 CindyJ: Jim, I heard that too! And I can't wait to have fun with him/her/them.

6:41 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:39 CindyJ: We all will be eager to follow this event with you.

6:39 Cricket2: Cindy - I’m copying and pasting your comments above with names mentioned so Lisa or Swan can fix them. But you are very welcome.

6:40 Still: Cindy, I had twins resulting from IVF. They can tell really early in the pregnancy if they are twins or a singleton.

6:40 CindyJ: sbky, ndakmom, all....thank you....

6:40 ndakmom: MarySarah- (((HUGS)))) I’m so sorry. How long has it been since H left?

6:40 BlueSky: Jim, whew, you scared me there.

6:40 CindyJ: Still that's what she had so I hope we find out soon.

6:40 steadfast: Cricket; to go to summer school to do 8 mos each year in 12 mos. Anyways, God spoke to me from the Christian song about God's mercy and no not letting go. Tried to share that with a friend and she just thinks it's time to move on especially since h

6:41 MarySarah: Still 6:39 thank you for your kindness!

6:41 steadfast: Cricket; wants a divorce now.

6:41 koko: Jim. would a phone conversation with you help my situation

6:43 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:41 koko: Yes, a phone session gives us the opportunity to talk in more depth than the limited space in the chat room. Lisa posted information above. You can also find more info on phone session on the website.

6:41 ndakmom: Jim- before H left we had really grown apart, for instance when H would go outside with kids, most of the time I would do my own thing, this weekend when H was out with the kids, I gave him some time alone with them, then I joined them. He seems to enjoy my presence, I mean he chit chats with me for the most part, when he becomes withdrawn, I usually take it as my cue to go do something on my own and allow him time alone with the kids

6:44 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:41 ndakmom: I think your example of being there or not being there shows a good balance and sensitivity on your part.

6:42 Still: Cricket @ 6:37. Maybe because of my own depression. I don't even take medication anymore. There was a time when I was very complacent, overmedicated, obese, and very dependent. The last two years I have changed immensely.

6:42 Cricket2: Steadfast - STOP talking to friends about that - I always replied to friends that I am moving forward but I was nowhere ready to date. I'd tell them I’m taking time for healing and to work on myself. Otherwise they just feel a need to fix us.

6:42 MarySarah: ndakmom 2 years. Our 25th this year & dated 2 yrs before I miss him & love him, but the cruelty is almost unbearable @ times. I don't know why I ever thought he'd be different than his family they all are image, surface, throw away relationship types

6:43 sbky: still I have changed a lot. I believe I am more the woman my h thought he was marrying

6:43 Cricket2: Still - The thing to remind yourself is that your H was there for you during your painful journey and now is your time to be there for him. It usually takes time for them to trust our changes & that we won't slip back to old ways.

6:45 koko: All. anyone experiencing W in MLC notice a lot of H in Mlc would like to share some thoughts?

6:45 Still: Jim at 6:41. Our church is very small...no men's accountability group. He has done the typical...leadership roles to committee involvement to last pew before he stops attending, but he has continued even the weekly relationship Bible Study.

6:48 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:45 Still: Are there guys in the weekly Bible Study who might be able to deepen a friendship with your husband, and move towards more accountability in the future?

6:45 MarySarah: Ndakmom & all I have to always emphasize to kids as they get married that after God, the spouse comes first, period..... It is very hard to be replaced by your kids, then OW & then for our spouses to be able to alienate kids from us It's control & manipulation of anyone who they can get on their "side"

6:45 steadfast: Cricket: The friend I spoke to has always believed in praying for h to come back and believed in miracles--that's why she caught me off guard. It's like everyone has given up except for one who loves long way from me. I was angry and felt like I never

6:45 Cricket2: Sbky - Problem is that they often say-OH SURE, now you make these changes when I’ve decided to move on, but you wouldn't before. They also think if they come back, things will go back to the way they were. In time they believe us, but it takes time

6:46 sbky: steadfast. I feel like people think I am crazy.. waiting for h to wake up..

6:47 steadfast: Cricket; wanted to see or talk to h again but then I said that's the song God gave me. She wasn't receptive. It was very discouraging to know that even the few who did believe for restoration have given up

6:47 sbky: cricket the changes wasn’t for him so if he doesn’t notice or care. I am ok

6:48 steadfast: sbky: Yea, I know, they just think that we refuse to accept the truth.

6:48 Cricket2: Steadfast - When my H got his divorce & married the OW, my pastor and close Christian friend and others said to me - You are released now (because of D & H's marriage to OW). I said I still felt called to stand and they seemed to accept that.

6:48 bethel: sbky, Surprising others think we should be "over" h in months after being married for so long. I starting to tell folks that I am not moving on yet but I am letting go.

6:49 MarySarah: Cricket & SBKY 6:45 Mine only said that once, but yes, He admitted to complaining & nagging often to relieve stress & saying unkind things only towards end did I get defensive, but I told H I know how not to now ...Oh, now you change he said...

6:49 BlueSky: Jim, do you have any short thoughts on my question earlier at all?

6:52 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:49 BlueSky: I’m not sure what question you mean. (and I never have short thoughts) :o)

6:49 sbky: bethel I use the saying "I am moving forward." that doesn’t mean I am moving on

6:49 Cricket2: Steadfast - It's probably also because of how nasty he'd gotten with you. Friend/family who really care and love us have trouble with seeing us hurt. When we cry on their shoulders about the cruel things our H's do, they get angry for us.

6:49 koko: Jim W started attending church a while ago.1st by herself then with kids. Says something she wants to do. Says I only want to because she is doing it. How do I let her know I want and need to go, I need God in my life, and taking my kids w/out me hurts

6:53 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:49 koko: I’m glad she is going to church, let's share some more when we talk.

6:49 Still: Jim at 6:48. One of the men is my h oldest friend. He is about 25 years his senior, but has always been a strong mentor for him. He knows of our situation and has tried to speak with my H. He says that he has walls up and won't even discuss it.

6:54 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:49 Still: sometimes a larger group retreat with several churches can help men who are a little bit afraid to open up.

6:50 Cricket2: MarySarah - Yes that's been said by many. I can understand that they feel we only made changes because they left & that it would take time to trust changes are real.

6:50 steadfast: Cricket; It is good that they accepted your stand. I think the pastor is ok with my stand as I was crying at the altar one Sunday and he knows h wants D. He prayed that "we are not without hope" which to me said keep looking to the Lord and don't

6:50 MarySarah: Jim after almost 2 years & Nobody has approached my H in any gentle correction, not anyone in church, even pastor. Scripture says go to them alone, then 2 or 3, then Elders, then entire church, then treat like tax collector Shouldn't our pastor @ least try to approach my H as the scriptures say? My H has said it.... You know how I get when I don't get what I want & I ALWAYS get what I want. Recently he took our son & said he was living with him I have full custody, I picked up son & H sent police. Wasn't worried all times he was out town or about our dtr, just son because he's the next target to be alienated from me after H was successful in that with oldest dtr. The cop & lawyer reprimanded H & son still lives here

6:56 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:50 MarySarah,: Sometimes I tell people different things because their situations are different. If your husband already thinks you are too pushy, then talking to men in the church will appear to be controlling.

6:51 bethel: sbky, I like it!

6:51 Cricket2: Bethel/All - Most everyone seem to understand that we need to take time for our healing. I told one person that if my H died, they would understand that I'd need time to grieve/heal, etc. That D is even harder. Most get that.

6:51 sbky: bethel it is the truth. I have forced myself to move forward. but moving on, closing that door. I am just not there

6:51 BlueSky: all, it is a holiday time again. I am not sure what to do about church on Sunday with h. We used to go as a family, he joined us at Christmas, but I don't think he has gone since. I am not wild about him joining us this weekend because of his choices

6:52 steadfast: Cricket: lose hope. So I guess, it's the pastor and 1 dear previous pastor's wife out West who are still not losing the faith. It's sad though when others prayed for restoration and now they have dropped off like flies

6:52 Cricket2: Steadfast - My pastor understood that I needed to follow what I felt led by the Lord to do.

6:52 Swanlake: sbky - moving forward, good it is a good place to be, isn't it

6:52 sbky: swanlake. yes.. that is the only thing we can do in this situation..

6:53 Cricket2: Steadfast - Again with the things you've shared about how cruel and hurtful your H has been &what's happened in the court process - this makes it harder for them to forgive

6:53 ndakmom: blue- I’m going to my Dad's this weekend with my kids, I told H about it and said he was welcomed to join us or to even drive down on Sunday to join us for Easter dinner, he said he would see. I figure the offer is out there, and won't pressure any decision, if he chooses to join us, that would be wonderful, if not, then I’m okay with that too. I know every situation is different, but that's how I dealt with it.

6:53 koko: Jim, thank you I will set up the appointment

6:54 sbky: all this weekend is my h's birthday...

6:54 Cricket2: Cindy - Do you know how far along your d is - are we talking weeks?

6:54 BlueSky: Jim, okay, I asked about my h never wavering about D since he told me he was unhappy. You just thought we ought to talk. I was wondering if you had a small insight

6:58 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: 6:54 BlueSky: sometimes when a man makes statements about getting a divorce, he is trying to pressure his wife for changes without actually asking her to change. Usually by the time a man is thinking about divorce, he feels that the situation is pretty hopeless.

6:54 steadfast: Cricket: Yes, friends get angry when they see how h treats me . I don't tell the world only a few know details but I think I will stop sharing anything with them.

6:54 Cricket2: sbky - Can you send a cute bday card from you and your D?

6:54 MarySarah: koko 6:49 Can you talk to your wife about wanting to be the spiritual leader for them that God wants & calls for you to be?

6:55 sbky: cricket she bought one from her and her brother..

6:55 Cricket2: Steadfast - I just mean that those who changed in supporting your stand probably did that because of how he's treated you &things you shared. It's because they love you

6:55 CindyJ: Sorry everyone but I am getting phone calls. You would think that this is a miracle. HEY it is!!!!!!! : ) Good night all and have a blessed week!! And I am thanking my God all over the place!!

6:56 Cricket2: sbky - Would she mind if you signed it or can you get one for your son to send & you sign too?

6:56 MarySarah: Still 6:49 Keep praying for opportunities for soft heart, open eyes & ears & that friend to NOT give up or judge H while ministering this is good. Nobody talks to my H

6:56 Still: MarySarah....I'm sure that God talks to your H.....but will he listen....

6:56 sbky: cricket she wouldn’t care if I signed it. should I

6:57 Cricket2: Sbky - YES I'd sign it too, just so that all three of your signatures are there

6:57 steadfast: Cricket; Yes , I know they love me and care. as far as h, it is hard to see him across the table, 2 feet from me and hear the things he is saying. It is even more a challenge to my faith because. everything screams at me where is my

6:57 MarySarah: Cricket 6:50 I understand that too, but it's still an excuse. ALL relationships have some conflict. It's avoidance that is the main prob. Plus I was the only one to guess that might be one problem & H went with it. Never complained anything specific

6:57 Swanlake: MarySarah - God talks to your husband and that is the important one, all the others might be able to speak to him, but he will most likely rebuke them and turn from church completely to avoid them interfering in his life. Leave it in God's hands, He is very capable and can be ignored for a season, but never goes away.

6:57 sbky: cricket I think it says how great of a dad he is. but I guess I could be saying that too

6:58 Cricket2: ALL - I’m excited about an opportunity to go to Italy for 10 days in October with a group of friends from my Chamber. Hopefully retreat won't fall at that time though.

6:58 sbky: cricket I am so ready for retreat..

6:58 steadfast: Cricket; h . This cool guy sits there like he has it altogether. It is hard to believe anything can change with h but all things are possible with God.

6:58 Still: Cricket at 6:58 that sounds awesome.

6:58 Cricket2: sbky - YES you could sign it too... As long as it's not mushy

6:59 sbky: cricket I will read it and see..

6:59 Cricket2: sbky/Still - Yes my Dad's side of family are Swiss Italian so it would feel like connecting with my family's history.

7:00 MarySarah: Jim My H thinks anyone who doesn't give him his way all the time should be discarded. The level of control he exerts still on the kids & the bullying he does with me is unbelievable. The only thing I could do is die to not be a problem for him

7:00 Cricket2: All - Have a good night and remember chat Wednesday night.

7:00 BlueSky: Jim that is it exactly. I was real sick with depression when his started. But he never said a world. So I have made it without him and changed as soon as he told me what some issues were. But he won't change the hopelessness.

7:01 sbky: cricket I went to Italy between my freshman and sophomore year

7:01 Cricket2: sbky - I’ve never been so it would be exciting.

7:01 Still: Good night, all.

7:01 MarySarah: Still 6:56 I think my H has run from God most of his life. He would of course deny it. He says he knows it's wrong according to Bible, but it's happening & that my soul is safe, what am I worried for, yet maybe God gave him ow.....PLEAZZZZZZEEEEE

7:01 Cricket2: Good night all.

7:01 Cricket2: Woops - GOOD night all.

7:01 BlueSky: Cricket, how exciting for you.

7:02 steadfast: All: goodnight and sweet dreams

7:02 MarySarah: Swan 6:57 I know you are right, God dealt with Saul, Nebuchadnezzar & MANY others!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

7:02 sbky: I am gonna head to bed. night all

7:02 Swanlake: Goodnight all, see you on Wednesday

7:03 MarySarah: Jim what does it mean if our H's never seem to "cycle" they have covert depression if any & replay seems to go on forever?

7:03 Dr. Jim Conway [Midlife Dimensions]: Thanks everyone for being in the chat room today. If you got lost during the chat process, check back later to find the edited chat dialogue posted in the archives, there you can read it at your own pace. It's been fun talking with you today. We, at Midlife Dimensions, will remember you and your marriages in prayer throughout the week. Warmly in Christ, Jim.

7:04 ndakmom: good night everyone!

7:04 MAS: Hi MarySarah. I am really heartbroken about all you are going through. My prayers are with you.

7:05 BlueSky: Did Jim leave?

7:05 MarySarah: Well goodnight all & God bless you all with pleasant dreams & sweet, peaceful sleep!

7:05 MarySarah: MAS Thanks Miss you, praying you are well

7:06 MAS: Thank you, Mary Sarah. God bless you as well. Good night all.

7:06 LisaK [Programmer]: 7:00 BlueSky: It's in God's timing, not ours.

7:07 MarySarah: Lisa I guess I wondered if they stay in earlier stages long time, if they are more likely to get "stuck" or can go through other stages faster?

7:07 MarySarah: Drift, Sorry I didn't get to chat or know you yet. Blessings & welcome

7:08 LisaK [Programmer]: "We can rejoice when we run into problems... they help us learn to be patient. And patience develops strength of character in us and helps us trust God more each time we use it until finally our hope and faith are strong and steady." Romans 5:3-4 God is at work in and around you. You may not see His hand, hear His voice or even understand His process, but you can rest assured that you can trust His heart. Remember, every problem points to a promise.

7:09 LisaK [Programmer]: 7:07 MarySarah: Each man's is different, there's no set time in each. Depends on how much God has to teach him, and you, during that time.

7:10 MarySarah: Lisa Yes & I think longer they've been running, more wounds they have & earlier their damage, the further they have to come But Nothing is Impossible with God I know this!

7:10 LisaK [Programmer]: Dear Lord, please protect the people who attended tonight's chat, and all who read it in the archives, from the works of Satan, who is always trying to bring us down. Please fill them with Your hope and assurance that Your will be done in their lives, and help them to let go and let You be in control. In Jesus' Name. Amen.