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Feb. 1, 2010 / with Jim Conway

6:21 BlueSky: Jim, he says the standard, I don't love you anymore, and I don't want to want to love you. I wish I knew why, he has said different things. We put our kids first, but we said we would have time after

6:29 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:21 BlueSky: It may have been that you guys had marital problems all along, and the children were just excuses to not deal with your marriage. At midlife, many people decide to quit playing games and they start to become more honest with themselves and other people.
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6:01 LisaK [Programmer]: Good Evening. Welcome to Monday Night Chat with Jim. I’m Lisa, the Office Manager for Midlife Dimensions. I’m blessed to serve the Lord through our Chat Room Ministry which has helped so many people through their spouse’s midlife journey. Jim Conway will be online with us shortly and as he reads your questions, he’ll dictate his answers for me to type and post for you to see. He will answer all questions that come in before the end of the hour. If you would like to show your appreciation to Jim, you can make a tax-deductible contribution to Jim’s ministry via Paypal at www.Midlife.com. Funds support the Chat Room and Website upkeep. Thank you.

6:02 ndakmom: hi everyone

6:02 Still: Hi All.

6:02 Swanlake: Hello everyone, how are you tonight?

6:02 Still: Great, thanks.

6:03 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Welcome Still, Ndakmom AND Sadwife: I’m Jim Conway, President of Midlife Dimensions. This room is here to encourage you and answer questions you have about your current situation. Important: Do NOT share personal information such as an email address, phone #, home address, or any names. Now, here’s how to join in. 1) Type the name of the person you want to speak to before you type your entry. 2) You’re limited to 250 keystrokes per entry. If your entry is long, then click “chat” to post it and start your next entry with the word ‘continued’. 3) Use the words “To All” if you have a general entry not directed to one person. 4) If you’d like to contact someone in the room, email or call us at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. or 714-768-1777. We’ll have them contact you to exchange information.

6:05 Still: Dr. Conway, I was wondering if you could tell me what the "withdrawal phase" looks like. My H has been in MLC for about 22 months. He appears to have gone through all the stages and seems to FINALLY be coming through Replay...

6:09 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:05 Still: The stages of going through a midlife crisis are not necessarily fixed to so many weeks or months. It's better to think of him as you do a teenager - some days they act very mature, and other days they act very childish. Instead of trying to figure out what stage he is in, try to understand what his needs might be and why he wanted to get out in the first place. Let me ask you how you are doing in the three areas that midlife men complain about. 1. Midlife Men complain that their wives are naggy, controlling, and often boss them around like children (sometimes men do act like children). 2. Midlife Men complain that their wives are overweight, out of shape, and do not care about physical appearance. Men are very visual, & when their wife looks good to them, that translates that she is interested in sex. A high priority in a man’s life is regular, exciting sex for which he doesn’t have to beg. 3. Midlife Men complain that their wives have not had a new thought since they got married. They complain that their wives are not growing intellectually or in their careers, which makes them very dependent and clingy -- which is often negative to a midlife man. How are you doing in these three areas?

6:05 Plumcrazy: JIM----So nice to see you here!!! How is Jan?

6:10 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:05 Plumcrazy: I’m glad to be back with you guys, I’ve been battling the flu the past week, we've had house guests, and Jan's been taking care of all of us.

6:06 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Snickerdoodle, hello to you too. Welcome. See my note at 6:04.

6:06 BlueSky: hi all, happy February to you. Wow, one month down already.

6:07 bethel: Dr Jim, Hope all is well with you. Why would h say his was willing to talk and save marriage and then change his mind within minutes?

6:13 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:07 bethel: remember that midlife men are very confused and they both want to run away and at the same time keep the stability of their family - this confusion is normal for midlife crisis.

6:08 bethel: blue, Feb - the best month!

6:08 Plumcrazy: Jim--I have been struggling with loss of confidence from a bad decision I made. I purchased a used car that I shouldn’t have. I started doubting myself and my judgment. I think Maybe God used this bad experience to teach me to listen to my instincts /heart on things and not doubt myself

6:15 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:08 Plumcrazy: Remember the Bible promises us that we will make mistakes, the Bible also promises us that God will forgive us - plus He will use the mistakes to help us grow. So don't focus on the problem, keep asking yourself "what is God trying to teach me" - you seem to have part of the answer already.

6:09 BlueSky: Jim, my h filed last week and we have a mediation appt tomorrow. The mediation owner is a counselor too and encourages saving the marriage. My h picked this place. I want to look at this route, though h was here yesterday and adamant that he does not "Want" this marriage. he believes love is "feeling' fundamentally, which I don't see him changing.

6:17 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:09 BlueSky: It sounds as if this mediator/counselor might be a good first step for you guys since he is committed to saving marriages. However, my question to you is, tell me why your husband wants to get away from you - he has some very concrete reasons - what are they?

6:10 Plumcrazy: Jim---So glad you are feeling better

6:11 bethel: sadwife, are you new?

6:11 Plumcrazy: Hannah---Hello How are you?

6:11 Still: Dr. Conway, I have worked on all those areas fervently. I feel that I am in the best personal shape...physically, spiritually, mentally. My H still lives at home, has never left, but is not committed to me nor our marriage. Says just feels apathy.

6:18 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:11 Still: As men go through their mid-years, there is the beginning of loss of serotonin in the brain. The result is that many midlife and aging men feel depressed. This is a chemical imbalance and should be addressed the same way as we would address vitamin D deficiency. As he feels less depressed, he will be able to engage more in his life.

6:12 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Bethel, hi there and welcome to you too.

6:12 sadwife1: I’ve been on once before. It was helpful

6:12 Hannah2: Plum I am well thanks and you?

6:13 sadwife1: Still I feel the same way and my husband still wanted to be separated. He wants all this physical attention but he travels constantly and lives apart. It's frustrating

6:13 bethel: sad, welcome back; I’ve been here a few months now. It great to be here among friends

6:14 Still: Dr. C., H and I attend a Bible study every week. During tonight's discussion, my H was adamant that people need to reconcile the wrongs they have with people. I was just dumbfounded as he won't even begin to try to reconnect with me.

6:21 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:14 Still: There is a saying in the 12 step movement, "If you spot it, you've got it." This refers to our common human tendency to be able to see faults in other people because we are struggling with very similar faults. So from a counseling point of view, it is very good that your husband is concerned about reconciliation.

6:14 sadwife1: yes I can see where you could become friends. All my friends have intact marriages at this time so it is helpful to have people who understand the craziness.

6:14 Plumcrazy: Hannah --I am finally feeling like I am getting back to my old self getting my confidence back after bad car buying decision with the Jeep. Seems like after that I was so out of it. couldn’t seem to do anything right

6:15 bethel: Dr Jim, he is really confused. First he seemed hurt I did not want the house, now he fights because I want it. Any suggestions on how to deal with constantly changing decisions/opinions during the d process?

6:22 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:15 bethel: just treat it as something similar to the vacillations (changing back and forth) to the teenage years.

6:15 Still: Sadwife, My h wants to physical attention from me. He won't even allow me to touch him and jumps when I get too close to him. Has told me that he doesn't want to give me "false hope" that things will work out.

6:16 Still: oops, should be NO physical attention from me.

6:16 sadwife1: Still: that is slightly different from my situation. My husband drinks up any attention he gets but then goes to therapy and says I’m too mechanical. I can't win.

6:17 bethel: blue, you're back!

6:17 Plumcrazy: Hannah--We are getting a "new" used car tomorrow. I asked H to go with me to look at cars and he WENT!. We test drove the car he liked and the one I liked and we decided together on his pick as it was a better car.

6:17 Still: Sadwife, I think that is "key"....we really can't win when they are so deep.

6:17 faithfull: Jim h says he is not happy where he is at but he is not happy at home either. Therapist offer to see both of us together and he said he will think about it. It has been two weeks and he has not called her. Is no surprise to me. he also has only seen the kids twice since Thanksgiving. Cannot afford to have them is what he says.

6:24 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:17 faithfull: His inability to connect or make a decision about the therapist is an extension of his midlife confusion. Now is the time to intensify the time in prayer for God to work in both of your lives.

6:19 BlueSky: Ugh, the internet is out in my area, very spotty.

6:20 Hannah2: Plum that is very positive about the car

6:20 bethel: blue, how was the weekend?

6:20 Still: Dr. C. @ 6:18. I would love to have my H try some AD's, but he is convinced that they will not help and will not even try them. He says "a pill is not going to make me fall in love with you"....OUCH.

6:26 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:20 Still: The purpose of antidepressant herbs or drugs is not to cause him to fall in love with you again, but rather to help him enjoy his life - regardless of what happens with your marriage. He should see improvement in several areas of his life; work, planning, physical energy, and abilities.

6:21 sadwife1: Still: I’m sorry. This is such a hurtful process.

6:21 Plumcrazy: Still@6:20 Very similar to something my H said at the beginning of this

6:21 bethel: Dr Jim, do MLCer treat their OW poorly and act out their "jerkiness" around them too or just us?

6:26 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:21 bethel: the ow is like going to Disneyland with no stress or responsibility, so they tend to act differently.

6:21 Plumcrazy: Steadfast----Hello How are you?

6:22 Still: Dr. Conway @ 6:21....I love that saying. My H even turned to me and asked me what I thought about righting the wrongs with others....I was pretty much speechless and didn't know what to say. Perhaps, we are getting somewhere after all. :-)

6:23 Saam: Dr. C: If my H never contacts me except on rare day is it ok to email him just to say Hi and tell him that I’m thinking of him & love him & hope that he is doing well..or is this just bugging him and adding fuel to the fire?

6:30 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:23 Saam: what is your relationship with your husband? Separated or legally divorced?

6:23 sadwife1: My question continues to be... why do these men hang on? If we are so deplorable, how come they stay and let this go on for months and years?

6:31 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:23 sadwife1: These men hang on because they find a strength with their relationship with their wives, but they keep wishing the relationship could be better.

6:24 BlueSky: bethel, not so good, my h was supposed to come over on Sat, cleaned everything up, had a good hair day, was working on project and he couldn't come due to work.

6:24 steadfast: Jim: My h and I will be renterring legal proceedings this month re division of assets. Any thoughts of how to interpret email from h. Stay with same process as less stressful. faster and cheaper; has told his lawyer to complete everything asap; whole process has been hard on both of us; he has tried to be cordial throughout (not the case really) and wants us to finish everything up with minimal hard feelings; and that we both need to get on with our lives

6:32 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:24 steadfast: Your husband may be trying to settle this process as inexpensively as possible. I would strongly urge you to get good legal advice so that your interests are protected.

6:24 Still: Blue @ 6:21, I have heard so many different things "an erosion in our relationship" "we have nothing in common" "we put the kids ahead of us" He even told his mother is she had babysit once in awhile this wouldn't have happened (???)

6:24 Plumcrazy: Jim--H has said some things I take as positive. One nite I touched H and he flinched and pulled away. I said "I wish you wouldn’t flinch when I touch you? H said "I wish I wouldn’t either, It is psychological" Made sign he is crazy. Big change from not wanting to feel anything for me.

6:33 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:24 Plumcrazy: Don't focus on these small events, like the touch. Just view this as a process where he is trying to figure out what to do.

6:25 BlueSky: bethel, then Sunday when he did come I talked and talked which is a no no. I just feel so desperate right now. Oh and I tore my plantar fasciitis which was supposed to be healed.

6:25 bethel: Dr Jim, 6:22 Easy to say. I do not really understand since I have no kids and have not been around children including nieces/nephews.

6:35 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:25 bethel: my illustration of the teenage years was just to point out that midlife men can act quite differently from day to day, like a teenager dealing with hormones. Ups and downs. Selfish.

6:26 faithfull: Jim do you recommend to continue with no contact. I did send him pictures of the kids for Christmas and he was thankful but I try not to push. I am afraid to push him away.

6:36 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:26 faithfull: I’m glad that you are sending him pictures and at the same time giving him space. But remember also to continue understanding his needs and praying for God to work in both your lives.

6:27 Still: Dr. Conway @ 6:26..I understand the purpose (I am a counselor), but he seems to think that it would be giving in. He is the picture of health in every possible aspect, but just can't accept that he may need help with his mental status.

6:39 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:27 Still: Sometimes counselors, because of their background and training, will try to fix their mate - I’ve never seen it work. He needs to make these choices for help himself, so that he doesn't feel that you are manipulating him.

6:28 BlueSky: bethel, wow, good point! if you don't have children to experience

6:28 bethel: sad, good question to Dr Jim

6:28 steadfast: Jim: re 6:24 & 6;26. Is he feeling sorry or just buttering me up so that things go better during proceedings or it makes him feel good or might be his attempt to make me feel better? What do you think of all of this?

6:40 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:28 steadfast: it's very important for you to get good legal counsel to see if he's being genuine or not.

6:29 bethel: blue, at least h had reason and since work is so important to h; did he tell you he had to work?

6:29 BlueSky: Still, in total agreement at 6:24

6:30 Plumcrazy: Jim---Also the other night H went off on me when I asked him ? while he was playing a game. Later in bed I asked him why he is always so angry with me. He said "I am not angry with you I am angry with myself and I take it out on you. Sorry!"

6:40 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:30 Plumcrazy: his statement to you is very open and quite accurate. Generally lots of affirmation will help a guy at this stage.

6:31 MJ 2: Hello Hannah

6:31 Plumcrazy: MJ2-----Where have you been WOMAN?????

6:31 bethel: plum 6:30, really? wow, great he realizes it

6:31 Plumcrazy: MJ2-----Have missed you!!!!

6:31 MJ 2: Hello Plumcrazy, I have missed you!!!

6:31 steadfast: Plumcrazy: feel plumcrazy today as spent the whole day working on preparation of legal stuff necessary for upcoming legal meeting with h and both lawyers this month

6:32 Hannah2: Bluesky we missed you at bible study last night

6:32 Plumcrazy: Bethel---This has taken over 18mos of extreme nastiness on his part to get to this

6:32 Hannah2: MJ2 Hi, how are you?

6:32 Still: Dr. Conway, If they are wishing the relationship could be better, why do they put forth no effort? I have read every book I can locate, tried every marriage saving technique, asked him what he needs.....he shuts me out of everything.

6:44 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:32 Still: It's difficult for most women to understand that men have little or no self-awareness. When they are asked to look at themselves - they basically only see emptiness. The reason they don't work on marriage, is that they don't know how to do it, or even why they should do it.

6:33 Plumcrazy: Steadfast----I am so sorry!!! ((((((Steadfast)))))))

6:33 bethel: Dr Jim, 6:31, is this h continues to create chaos even during the d proceedings?

6:33 Plumcrazy: MJ2-----You have been away a long time. How are things for you?

6:33 BlueSky: Jim, I appreciate your comments, but no our marriage was always easy. I was thought we could be together 24/7. But thank you

6:48 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:33 BlueSky: Remember that your perception of the marriage may not have been your husband's perception of the marriage. Generally at midlife, issues that have been buried for a long time come to the surface.

6:33 MJ 2: Hannah: I am well. I have missed all of you. I have been so busy since October doing all the things I learned about at the retreat. In fact this is the first time I have been online since.

6:34 BlueSky: Hannah, oh thanks, I let Swan know I wasn't going to be there. My daughter had a hockey game.

6:34 bethel: plum, but he came and did it. And if I remember correctly, there was some good connect times?

6:34 Hannah2: BlueSky chapter 3 for next Sunday

6:34 Saam: Dr. C: we are separated he moved out 12/28..it is not a legal separation he just said that he need space and time to think about our future....sorry it took so long to answer I just got a call from my mother-in-law my H aunt just passed away.

6:50 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:34 Saam: I’m sorry your husband's aunt has just died. Maybe you need to focus on that area, instead of in the chat room. We'll be here next time if you need to take off. .

6:35 BlueSky: Still, excellent ?

6:35 Plumcrazy: Jim---I haven’t been focusing on these small things I wasn’t feeling good and touch always makes me feel better. when I am in a lot of physical pain my tongue seems to loosen up LOL

6:51 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:35 Plumcrazy: I didn't mean to suggest that touch is an inconsequential factor - just that I don't want your emotions to be tied too much to some event that your husband does or does not do.

6:35 Hannah2: MJ2 well you certainly are putting the rest of us to shame!!!! LOL I hope things are working out for you

6:36 steadfast: Thanks Plum for your caring

6:36 BlueSky: Hannah, you got it!

6:36 Plumcrazy: Bethel---Yes there have been!!! PTL

6:36 bethel: Dr Jim - oh, male PMS?

6:53 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:36 bethel: male PMS is just a popular catch word that talks about some of the common issues that men face at midlife.

6:36 steadfast: Saam: Is it you who is having a Birthday soon--if so wishing you God's best on your Birthday! Loads of Love!

6:36 sadwife1: Dr. Jim, why do they hang on? I just don't get why some men are still hanging on after years.

6:37 Hannah2: Hi Cindy

6:37 bethel: plum, PTL.

6:37 Snickerdoodle: Dr. C. My h acts like super Mr nice guy when he's around. He wants us to be civil. Somehow he doesn't see blowing up our family as not being civil - our final dissolution hearing is 2/19. Married 32 yrs, 4 grown children, first grandchild due 2/23

6:55 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:37 Snickerdoodle: he is focusing on trying to meet some of his needs and he may feel that he has served the family too much.

6:38 MJ 2: Hannah: No, you were the ones who made me so strong. I thought of you every day during Christmas with My nativity calendar.

6:38 Plumcrazy: Jim----Was reading about what effects low testosterone have on men. H has a lot of the problems listed. I had thought about printing them out and leaving them for H

6:56 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:38 Plumcrazy: you might have this material ready to give to him if the discussion ever comes up. But he probably will act negatively if you push it on him. By the way, testosterone level is not the only factor for men at midlife.

6:39 Saam: Dr. C: Will it be alright to send H a text later tonight telling him that I love him and am here for him if he wants to talk...also tomorrow is my birthday and I’m afraid that he might think I’m just trying to get him to talk to me...

6:57 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:39 Saam: texting him now will cause him to think you have ulterior motives - wait a couple of days.

6:39 Hannah2: MJ2 you are welcome. A little child in all of us when it comes to Christmas. Appropriate as the first Christmas Gift was a child!

6:39 Still: Dr. C, My H has never mentioned divorce, but has stated once that he didn't want "our relationship". He threatened to leave a few weeks before Christmas (after a relationship talk---I know...don't have them), but then started remodeling a room.

7:00 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:39 Still, 6:41 Still: I think your husband is in a like/dislike relationship with you. How can you eliminate some of his dislikes about you and expand on the "likes" of yourself.

6:40 bethel: plum, I notice now h continues to point out how I have hurt. If I apologize, he just does on to the next thing. I’m trying to remain calm.

6:40 sadwife1: Saam: good question. I never know how much to imitate things. If I don't, then I hear that I’m not connecting with him (again my fault). If I do, he seems to feel trapped and smothered.

6:40 Saam: Steadfast: Thanks, yes it's tomorrow....first one in 23 yrs. without H or kids!

6:40 BlueSky: Jim, how can I get h to see that love is a choice not feeling, or are you going to tell me not to try?

7:00 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:40 BlueSky: Telling a man that love is a choice is going to be counterproductive coming from you.

6:41 sadwife1: Saam: Happy bday! I’m sorry.

6:41 Still: Dr. C @ 6:39....I know he has told me not to analyze him before. I just pray that he will see what I (and others) are seeing and make these changes for himself. He is just a sad, lost man right now.

6:41 Plumcrazy: Saam------HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!!

6:41 bethel: saam, happy birthday to you!

This is Lisa assistant. If you feel you didn’t get enough time with Jim in the room today, or have a private question you don’t wish to discuss here, please consider scheduling a 1-on-1 phone counseling session with Jim. Call/email us at 714-768-1777 or This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. to set up a session. I’ll go over the suggested donation and provide you with ways to make the most of your time during the private call. I’ll need a list of dates/times that work for you to compare to Jim’s schedule and let you know the best one. When it’s time for the session, Jim calls you on the phone number of your choice. Remember, Jim always offers his live counseling in the chat room without cost. If you wish to donate to our ministry to support the Website/Chat Room upkeep, please do so at www.Midlife.com. Thank you.

6:42 MarySarah: All 6:35 Personally I liked my H when he was a teen, I think MLC is FAR worse than ANY spoiled teen or toddler. At least toddlers are cute & don't know better & the teen boy has nice biceps, a six pack, hair & testosterone with an undeveloped

6:42 faithfull: Jim h said he was totally broke and the car was going to be taken by the bank this week. He wants the motorcycle. He already took the truck and trade it in for this car. Should I just left him have the motorcycle.

7:02 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:42 faithfull: this is very hard for me to answer with limited information, perhaps you need to chat with a financial advisor locally, or let's talk more in depth by scheduling a phone session.

6:42 ndakmom: Saam- Happy Birthday, I know how you feel, I went through this a few weeks ago and waited all day for H to wish me a Happy Birthday, never happened, even though I did get a Belated Happy Birthday the day after from H

6:42 MarySarah: All cont frontal lobe. What's our MLCer's excuse really!!!!! Sorry, I needed a good laugh tonight!

6:43 Saam: All: Wish we could all get together at the Cheesecake Factory in OKC I'll be there at 7:30 tomorrow night! Come on over!!

6:43 MarySarah: Jim do some men seem to stay in replay forever?

7:03 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:43 MarySarah: generally men do not stay in any stage forever - but while they are living in that stage, it can seem as if it's forever.

6:43 sadwife1: MarySarah. I love that! I’m about to have a real teen in the house and I’m thinking, how am I going to deal with two of them? Yikes!!

6:43 Still: Saam, Happy Birthday!

6:43 faithfull: Saam I am only five hours away.

6:44 steadfast: Jim: I do have a new lawyer with very good reputation. However, if I enter this process with my lawyer and talks fail then the law here says that I can't use the same lawyer if we have to go to court.. But it's hard for me to know if h is really sincere and no lawyer will know until we get into these meetings. So it is a gamble but I do know my lawyer has a good reputation. First lawyer's h became ill and died; was transferred to 2nd lawyer in the firm and that was a disaster and now I found a new one that I am comfortable with. I just don't want to lose her if h doesn't cooperate and we end up in court. I am praying lots about this.

7:04 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:44 steadfast: it sounds as if your new lawyer is going to be a good help to you.

6:44 Still: MarySarah, You have really been on my heart the last few days. I have felt very compelled to pray for you. I hope you are doing well.

6:44 steadfast: For some reason, I just got bumped off

6:44 Saam: Faithfull: play hooky from work and come on!!

6:45 faithfull: hannah how are you? How are things going?

6:45 bethel: Dr Jim, recently h told me how I hurt him over the last 3 months. I apologize when he was right and tried to explained my actions when his interpretation was incorrect. Is this how I should handle. If I do not respond, he says I’m ignoring him. how should I respond to h when he tells me how I hurt him? I’ve apologize when he is right, and tried to explain when he misunderstand my actions. Let me know if you need explanation

7:06 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:45 bethel: when you're apologizing, it's best not to try and arrive at truth from your perception, but apologize for the pain that you have cause in their perception.

6:45 faithfull: Saam I have to many kids to just leave. Believe today I just wanted to run away.

6:45 MarySarah: sadwife1 6:43 My friend teaches difficult & troubled kids she says low point of humanity is a 13 yr old girl or 15 year old boy, Great I’m there, add in a rebellious college freshman & a H in MLC The fact I haven't been committed yet is a miracle!

6:46 faithfull: MarySarah is only by the strength of God that we all are still standing.

6:46 sadwife1: I hear you MarySarah! I have a soon to be 13 yr old boy and a 10 yr old boy and a dying dog of 14 yrs and the MLCer. It's tough

6:46 Saam: All: did you guys read the poem that DA shared...I have cried, just think what my H is going through...I just wish I could hold him!

6:47 Still: Dr. Conway @ 6:44. That is very interesting and something that I have never really thought about. I think that our relationship was "easy" for nearly two decades...then he didn't know how to deal with his personal issues..so must be "us".

7:07 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:47 Still: probably there are more issues than you realize, but they are no doubt intertwined with his new midlife issues.

6:47 sadwife1: But God is good and He is blessing me every day in some big or small way!

6:47 Hannah [Facilitator]: faithfully I am staying warm

6:47 faithfull: Saam where is the poem?

6:47 MarySarah: Still 6:44 Thank you sooooo much. I have been so encouraged & growing in many ways, my kids too, then last 2 weeks bam hit with virus, miserable circumstances & a little slide back with kids. Tonight I sat with kids' counselor alone because he noticed &

6:47 faithfull: Hanna it has been so cold and snow here. I am glad for some sunshine.

6:48 BlueSky: Still 6:44, that is what I am saying too. We should talk girl.

6:48 Plumcrazy: Saam---What poem tha DA shared? Where?

6:48 MJ 2: Plum: How have you been? Thanks for the card. I am using it as a book mark in my bible

6:48 Saam: Faithfull: it is on the home page.

6:48 MarySarah: Still cont: wondered if anything he could say would help. I was able to identify some major attacks lately & I think a lot happened @ one time. Thanks again for your prayers I can use them Praying for you too!

6:49 BlueSky: Still, I mean 6:47

6:49 BlueSky: Jim, okay, I get that.

6:49 Still: Definitely, Blue.

6:49 Plumcrazy: MJ2----H and I went thru a really rough spell then H has had ups and down things seem to be improving in small steps now tho

6:50 MarySarah: Jim from 6:32 I notice that in my H that he has literally NO self awareness. Our kids were extension of him & I think I know him better than he does himself & that scares the heck out of him! Plus mine still thinks everyone owes him & he's center of world, his fall & awakening will be very hard for him & I wish I didn't have to see it, but I am sure I will have to.

7:08 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:50 MarySarah: I’m glad you're getting these insights into your husband.

6:51 BlueSky: Jim, so the crisis could be what you said at 6:48 and not some deep seeded issue he isn't acknowledging?

7:08 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:51 BlueSky: there may be some other issues, but these will have to come out at his own pace.

6:51 Saam: Dr. C: Amen 6:48...my H just started talking about everything that he had bottled up for years...I told him if you had said something years ago I could have done something about it then! So many years wasted...I feel so bad about it. They have not called H yet to tell him about it...he is not really talking to them either..he has withdrawn from everyone.

7:09 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:51 Saam: your husband is probably frightened by some of his exposure to you. so his fear will cause him to hide in his cage.

6:52 BlueSky: Saam, 6:51 me too.

6:52 MarySarah: Faithful 6:46 Amen in agreement! I think I was always expected as kid & as wife to be able to handle everything, when being a mom & wife was more than enough. I am glad God tells me truth of how HE sees me & He will pick me up!

6:52 bethel: saam, me three

6:53 steadfast: Saam: sorry that you will not have others with you for your birthday. Remember that God knows that it is your birthday and He is with you and He rejoices and He knew you before you were even formed.

6:53 MJ 2: Plum: I am so sorry. I think the ups & downs are almost harder than the constant bad.

6:53 Swanlake: Sorry I have been distracted with a phone call from a friend, talk to you all later this week, Goodnight

6:53 sadwife1: I have come to a place where I have to lower my expectations. Nothing has moved my husband in a positive direction so it's easier for me to just take care of myself and let him know I’m here. He HATES that though because he wants to blame me for pain

6:54 Saam: All: I’m telling you guy you have to meet me at the Cheesecake factory tomorrow we would have the best time...probably even get kicked out of the place!

6:54 bethel: Dr Jim, male PMS - I was just joking. I’ve never heard the term before. Your comments just fit the way I feel some days.

6:55 Plumcrazy: Jim@6:51---I understood what you were saying I Just didn’t want you to think I had returned to the poor way I dealt with things before retreat. I have been doing well with a few slipups. I am wondering about low blood pressure causing ED issues. H is cold to the touch most of the time. Before he radiated heat

7:12 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:55 Plumcrazy: there are a lot of potential causes for ED issues. It is impossible to diagnose them in the chat room. Hopefully, in your husband's annual physical, some of these issues can be discussed - but remember that ED issues are strongly connected to a man's self esteem.

6:55 Still: Sadwife, I know it is difficult. I have found that the only way I have been able to deal with my H's crisis in the same home for nearly 2 years by "stepping out of the way". I don't get in his line of fire and I make sure that I am not a target.

6:55 MarySarah: sadwife1 6:53 They will blame us for a long time until God removes the scales from their eyes & they have a new heart & spirit & escape from the trap of satan.

6:56 sadwife1: still: I am doing the same thing but he moved out 3 months ago. He travels so much as well so there is not a lot of face time

6:56 bethel: MJ, plum - but does it have to be up and down in a matter of hours?

6:57 Saam: Sadwife: you have got to read the poem from DA that is posted on the homepage. It will open your eyes into their world. So sad!

6:57 MarySarah: Jim 6:55 I think if my H hadn't always been concerned with himself first & foremost most our lives, that would be easier to understand & deal with, but it's obvious my H has issues beyond just MLC. I haven't spoken to you in a while. My H & I are still sep only & he has purchased home cash & is gutting it with ow & still acquiring lots stuff & going lots places Is this just more trying to fill emptiness & justify affair even after all time?

7:13 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:57 MarySarah: generally midlife crisis brings to the surface; childhood, teenage, and young adult issues. So what you are reporting is quite common.

6:57 Plumcrazy: Bethel@6;56--That can and does happen

6:57 sadwife1: I will

6:57 MJ 2: Plum: I know for you and I at least are h's are at home. I have to remember that it is a blessing. Sometimes it doesn't feel like it. So you have changed since the retreat too.

6:57 bittersweet: Dr. Jim Conway:

6:57 Still: Sadwife, I think (in a way) his travel might make things easier than if you were face to face more. My H finds things to do when we are faced with too much time in the same proximity. Even goes grocery shopping to get away (never did before).

6:58 sadwife1: Still: yes I know he throws himself into this work to get away from the "agitation" and the anger he says he feels (which he cannot explain to our therapist).

6:58 sadwife1: when he travels, I’m more at peace

6:58 Saam: DR. C: thanks..my thoughts exactly...thanks for the conformation.

6:59 Still: Sadwife, that is probably a honest answer. My H says "I don't know" to any questions about his plans, our marriage, his thoughts....I quit asking several months ago. Didn't want to hear any answers that would hurt and "I don't know" answers nothing.

6:59 MJ 2: Bethel: In my case it has been.

7:00 MJ 2: Bethel:

7:00 Plumcrazy: MJ2---Yes I have, I understand what you are saying entirely

7:00 MarySarah: Still I can't get that out of my head that God put it on you to pray for me lately! That is amazing & I think will give me sweet sleep & peace tonight. Thanks again. : )

7:01 Still: Dr. Conway...at 7:00...my goodness I was just telling my IC this morning that there are days when my H is talkative, friendly and days when he looks at me as though I were the most vile person on the planet. I am currently doing the Love Dare.

7:02 bethel: sadwife, I really like what you said 6:53. Even When I try to step back, he attacks again with blame

7:02 Still: Ah, MarySarah....you seem like the most genuinely sweet individual. God knows your heart. I feel that good things will happen for you.

7:02 sadwife1: bethel: yes that is what I’ve found

7:03 MarySarah: Blue sky 7:00 I would have to say that is sooo true. My H never wanted to hear that, because he did not grow up with that & if it's true love is choice, then him being left by his mom & feeling unloved or unwanted by his family may feel true to him

7:03 BlueSky: Jim, okay, thanks

7:04 sadwife1: are the stages posted somewhere? I wonder where my h is now

7:04 BlueSky: MarySarah, remind me what you are saying, my internet is spotty, so I can't go back and look

7:04 MarySarah: Still mine looks @ me like I’m the devil in 2 years I have only really seen him talk to me & laugh with me once. It is so painful, esp. as I am kind person who always longs to reach out & be close & real with others

7:04 bittersweet: Still: My husband was grumpy all day and hard to get along with so I just got nicer and nicer,. At the end of the day along with prayer he apologized for being grumpy and said I should not take it out on you. I said it’s ok...no one is perfect.

7:05 MJ 2: Bethel: When you are in an upswing, you sometimes forget and say something that brings them down. Or my h would take it the wrong way. You just have to be careful. Learn how to stay numb and let God keep you with level emotions.

7:05 MarySarah: Still 7:02 Wow! same back @ you dear! My daughter just read that over my shoulder & said what you said was "cool"

7:05 Still: Bittersweet, I do use my "niceness" all the time. Pretty much only say things I have rehearsed in my head. He was very apologetic for a long period of time, now not so much. Not sure why.

7:06 Plumcrazy: MJ2@7:05 ----I agree with that.

7:06 MarySarah: Jim 7:03 PTL & yes it does feel like forever!

7:07 Plumcrazy: MJ2---I have misplaced my paper from retreat. Did you give me your phone number. I would love to talk to you on the phone

7:08 bethel: Dr Jim, 7:06 thx, great advice

7:08 steadfast: All: Forgive me if I don't get to chat for the next while due to all this legal stuff upcoming. I love you all in the Lord and pray for you. I am off to bed now. Jim thanks for your wise advice. god bless to all.

7:08 MarySarah: Blue I was talking about saying to H that love is a choice, they really don't want to hear it they can't be wrong or @ fault for anything, or have any responsibility or their fragile world as they know it will crack

7:08 Plumcrazy: Steadfast---Goodnite---Saying prayers for you

7:09 Still: Dr. Conway, Thanks for all your insights tonight. I hope I didn't monopolize your time. I just have so many questions.

7:09 bittersweet: Still; Maybe he is looking at himself more since he realizes he is always apologizing? Maybe he sees he has a problem.

7:09 MJ 2: Plum: I will contact you. I have to be very careful. I would love to talk to you also. Every time I see you name, I start smiling:)

7:09 steadfast: Thanks Plum

7:10 MarySarah: Jim or anyone 7:08 so what do I do with these revelations to make communicating with him easier?

7:10 Still: Bittersweet....I wouldn't say always apologizing. He said he was "sorry he wasn't in love with me anymore" "sorry he didn't want to be married" "sorry it is our anniversary and he feels nothing".....stuff like that.

7:10 MarySarah: MJ2 I miss you darling how are you?

7:10 Saam: Dr. C: well He's a good hider...I haven't seen him in about 3 weeks!

7:11 Plumcrazy: MJ2---Are things any better with H?

7:11 bethel: all, I’m heading out. Thank you all and you will be in my prayers tonite.

7:11 MJ 2: MarySarah: I am doing pretty well at the moment. How have you been?

7:11 Plumcrazy: Bethel---Goodnite Take care

7:12 bittersweet: Still; So sad it would be to hear that. I can imagine the pain.

7:12 MarySarah: Anyone It seems my H still tells everyone he knows everything & still publicly trashes me. I kind of think if he's so "happy" why does he talk about me so much & so poorly? Also can’t he just live his life & quit trashing me?

7:13 MarySarah: MJ2 7:11 pretty good great for while, just some tough attacks to deal with lately, but God will bring me through them in victory

7:14 bittersweet: MarySarah: Everyone who knows you will realize he just feels guilty and you are a great person.

7:14 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Thanks everyone for being in the chat room today. If you got lost during the chat process, check back later to find the edited chat dialogue posted in the archives, there you can read it at your own pace. It's been fun talking with you today. We, at Midlife Dimensions, will remember you and your marriages in prayer throughout the week. Warmly in Christ, Jim.

7:14 MarySarah: Jim will me knowing him so well & understanding it eventually be good for him?

7:14 Plumcrazy: MarySarah--I think that H thinks that if he badmouths you it will somehow convince others that he is justified in what he is doing. It makes sense in his warped mind

7:15 MJ 2: Plum: Well, my h continues to struggle, but I took Jim's advice and I am working on myself. I went back to work fulltime and I am finishing projects around the house. I miss you. I'll talk to you later.

7:15 MJ 2: All: Goodnight

7:15 Saam: Off to bed here too.....Good night all!

7:16 Plumcrazy: MJ2---OK Look forward to that

7:16 MarySarah: bittersweet =7:14 Thanks I have lots of amazing friends close relationships. I swallowed many lies for many years, all really because my H great hurts inside him. Wish I could have seen how wounded he was through his anger & such. He stuffed a lot down

7:16 MarySarah: bittersweet I can't imagine sometimes how painful it will be for him to deal with all this in future

7:17 MarySarah: Plum 7:14 Thanks! Luv ya!

7:17 LisaK [Programmer]: Dear Lord, please bless everyone who was here tonight, and all who read this chat session for help and encouragement. I pray that You will speak to their hearts, hide all of us - and let Your guidance shine through. Thank You in Jesus' Name, Amen.

7:17 Plumcrazy: MarySarah---Luv YA too!!!

7:18 MarySarah: Well, may God bless you all with sweet & peaceful dreams tonight as you sleep. Love you all! Goodnight!

7:18 LisaK [Programmer]: Closing down in 30 seconds everyone. Say your last good bye and click logout in the upper right corner. :O)\

7:18 LisaK [Programmer]: whoops, didn't mean to add a chin hair below my smiley. :o)

7:18 Plumcrazy: goodnight everyone Take care LOVE YOU ALL

7:18 LisaK [Programmer]: "Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfector of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning it’s shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God" (Hebrews 12:2).

6:21 BlueSky: Jim, he says the standard, I don't love you anymore, and I don't want to want to love you. I wish I knew why, he has said different things. We put our kids first, but we said we would have time after

6:29 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: 6:21 BlueSky: It may have been that you guys had marital problems all along, and the children were just excuses to not deal with your marriage. At midlife, many people decide to quit playing games and they start to become more honest with themselves and other people.

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