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Nov. 2, 2009 / With Jim Conway

6:18 faithfull: Jim He does not want any confrontation, he wants to be lifted and made to feel good. He does not want to face reality. The other woman makes him feel good. I do not know how to meet his needs due to he does not want to talk to me or be around me.

6:25 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: faithfull: Right now he is just glad because the other woman does not demand anything from him -- she is sort of like a day at Disneyland. I would encourage you to give him a little bit of space while he is recovering.

6:20 Kathy215: Jim - My H says that he can forget our past and the mistakes we've made, but he can't forgive himself for not being a good step-father to my other children. He says that he can tell that I've changed. We've been separated a little over a year. What can I do to make him interested enough to come back and let him know that our relationship does have the strength.

6:30 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Kathy215: Remember that most guys are fairly shallow, they like to sit on the couch and have the remote and watch tv. They also like things to work easily and not have to talk about it. And remember that most men are very visual, so it's important to make sure that you keep looking cute and that you come across a little bit flirty.



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5:57 LisaK [Administrator]: Hey everybody! Great to be here! Sorry about the ups and downs of the Chat Room over the weekend. Hopefully the problem was solved correctly and it won't happen again. I’m on the phone with Jim tonight, and since he just arrived in Hawaii over the weekend, he's not been able to get his computers hooked up yet. So, I'LL BE READING ALL THE QUESTIONS TO Jim TONIGHT, WHICH WILL CAUSE US TO BE A LITTLE SLOWER THAN USUAL. PLEASE KEEP YOUR QUESTIONS SHORT SO I CAN READ THEM TO Jim AND GET AN ANSWER FOR YOU, AND BE ABLE TO MOVE ON TO THE NEXT PERSON IN NEED. Thank you for understanding and patience with us tonight.

6:01 Swanlake: Hello everyone, how are you tonight?

6:01 sbky: hello

6:01 BlueSky: Hi everyone,

6:02 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Hello to everyone from Hawaii. When we left Michigan, over the weekend, it was about 40 degrees, and the weather out here is 91 degrees. So, it's quite a bit of change in the weather for us, but I've also been spending the day getting the office set up. My computer is in the shop, so LISA IS READING ALL THE QUESTIONS TO ME OFF THE INTERNET -- SO PLEASE BE PATIENT WITH US AS WE TRY TO MAKE THIS WORK. So what would you all like to talk about tonight?

6:03 sbky: Jim, well I will get a question in early. I have told cricket and some of the others. .my h has had to talk to me twice lately about the kids. both times he didn’t just do the short version. it was like he wanted to talk to me. and then I hit a deer over the weekend. he asked my d about it. did I have a rental. what was I gonna drive. he had never once asked my kids anything about me. does this sound good

6:11 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: sbky: Yes - this is a very good sign. Men generally try to reconnect without making any commitment. They make excuses to talk to you, the conversations are longer than usual, and they gradually become less about business and more about the 2 of you and the family. Caution -- this doesn't mean that he's ready to come back, he is just testing to see if it might be possible. This is the time to keep working on your changes so that your marriage is increasingly appealing to him. Talk to me a little bit about what changing you are making at this time, and do you know if he has noticed an of them?

6:03 Plumcrazy: JIM-Hope you are doing much better. You need to take care of yourself!

6:03 Kathy215: Jim - Hope you are feeling better.

6:04 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Kathy215, WELCOME! I’m Jim Conway, President of Midlife Dimensions. This room is here to encourage you and answer questions you have about your current situation. Important: Do NOT share personal information such as an email or home address, phone #, or any names. Here’s how to join in: 1) Type the name of the person you want to speak to followed by your entry. 2) You’re limited to 250 keystrokes per entry. If your entry is long, then click “chat” to post it and start your next entry with the word “continued”. 3) Type “To All” if you have a general entry not directed to one person. 4) If you’d like to contact someone in the room, email or call us at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. or 714-768-1777. We’ll have them contact you to exchange information.

6:05 faithfull: Jim my h has been very distant. Before we would text and sometimes talk. Since he told me officially he had gf over the internet he has become very distant. Not just with me but the kids also. He did not see the kids for two weeks all of a sudden he calls and want to see boys. S9 did not want to go. s5 did go. He accused me of trying to keep the boys away from me and such hateful things. He took the little bit of money he had in his 401k to pay his bills. He also will not talk with s26. Why is he distancing himself from us. It worries me.

6:15 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: faithfull: he is feeling extremely guilty and ashamed, so he is trying to avoid any contact that reminds him of the pain he is causing. The situation requires you to continue asking yourself the question, "why does he want to be away from me-- why would he rather be with this other woman?" When you understand his needs, then you can more accurately focus your changes so that they will better meet his needs. Talk to me a little bit about what you think his needs are and what you are doing to change and meet those needs.

6:05 BlueSky: Jim I just can't get the words from my husband out of my mind: "Our relationship is over" and "I don't intend to ever come back:". I thought I had a good marriage and I just don't know why he sounds so angry.

6:18 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: BlueSky: I’m not sure what has caused him to be so adamant about saying that he's never coming back - usually this means that I have not seen enough changes in you and our relationship to risk trying it again. I would like to hear your assessment of the situation -- is he proud of the changes you've made -- does he talk about that the changes are too little and too late?

6:05 Kathy215: Jim - I have been spending more time with my H, but he says that he can feel in his heart that it's not right for him to come back. He doesn't want to spend time with me because he said it's so easy and he's afraid. What's that all about?

6:20 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Kathy215: He's afraid to give you too much hope, and he's afraid that your relationship doesn't have enough strength and interest for him to want to come back.

6:08 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: ALL: Thanks for the prayers and well wishes. My eyes are both doing so much better. You know, it is quite stressful being 48 years old now!!!!!

6:08 MAS: Jim: I am having problems with my H as well as my daughter. He is in the hospital and when I called to try and find out how he was and what was wrong, he was quite obnoxious to me. My daughter intercepted and it was as if she became his gatekeeper. She said to me, "Do not bother Dad while he's in the hospital. He doesn't want to talk to you." She was quite snippy about it. It was very hurtful and I am extremely upset. I haven't heard anything since Saturday. What should I do?

6:22 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: MAS: He probably feels overwhelmed with trying to recover and doesn't have the emotional energy to try and work on your situation.

6:09 faithfull: MAS is like they blame us for everything going wrong in their lives.

6:09 Plumcrazy: JIM_You don’t look a day over 47!

6:11 sbky: yoli hello

6:11 BlueSky: MAS, wow, sorry to hear that. Do you know why your d is angry?

6:12 Yoli: sbky: Hey, how are you?

6:12 sbky: yoli what kind of a degree would I be looking for to do speech

6:12 MAS: BlueSky: No, I really don't. That is what is so upsetting. And she refuses to talk about it. It cuts like a knife.

6:12 Plumcrazy: YOLI_ Sweetie how are you?

6:13 faithfull: MAS how old is your daughter

6:13 sbky: Jim. I’m about to graduate college been working full time. trying to finish our house.. slowly.. I have matured and grown a lot through this

6:23 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: sbky: The changes sound really great! Are these changes that your husband appreciates?

6:13 Yoli: Plumcrazy: Well hi, how are you?

6:13 sbky: yoli. yes I saw that. and knew better

6:13 MAS: faithful: 28 and married.

6:13 Yoli: sbky: you need a master's in communication sciences and disorders.

6:13 faithfull: sbky what is your major in. that is quite an accomplishment

6:13 BlueSky: sbky, congratulations on graduating

6:14 sbky: all it is just a bachelor of arts with an emphasis on business

6:14 Swanlake: MAS - your daughter sees your husband as being defenseless and in need of being protected in his state of illness, it is actually common for children to take on the roll of protector for their parents in situations like this. She doesn't think about

6:14 Yoli: MAS: Glad to see that you are on tonight talking to the expert.

6:14 MAS: PLUS, she lives right down the street from me ( I can see her house from my driveway) and she never even gives me the time of day. I don't have a car and she doesn't even ask if I need to ride to the store.

6:15 Swanlake: MAS - continued - why her dad is alone, just that he is and being a woman the nurturer is kicking in.

6:15 Yoli: sbky: That’s still good. It's so hard to go back to school when you have a family. I used t make sure that the girls were taken care f before I could read or study. It was a hard 5 years for me.

6:15 MAS: Hi Yoli! Thank you! How are you tonight?

6:16 sbky: yoli I never started till my youngest was 18 months old. she is now 13

6:16 MAS: Swanlake: But why does she have to treat me like that at the same time?

6:16 faithfull: MAS I am so sorry to hear that. My s26 did that to me about a year ago. He did not talk to me for a whole year. Did not get to see my grand baby, was not invited to her first birthday or Christmas. I know how hurtful it is.

6:16 Yoli: MAS: Okay just tired with the time change. Today was rough.

6:17 Yoli: sbky: Wow. I think his is great though. You're showing your children that you're never too old to learn and once you make commitment you follow through. Good for you. My hat's off to you.

6:17 Swanlake: MAS - wish I could say why, this is an equally confusing and hurtful time for our children and sometimes they express that hurt by lashing out at the safest person.

6:17 sbky: yoli thanks

6:18 MAS: faithfull: So, you can understand what I’m going through.

6:18 faithfull: Jim He does not want any confrontation, he wants to be lifted and made to feel good. He does not want to face reality. The other woman makes him feel good. I do not know how to meet his needs due to he does not want to talk to me or be around me.

6:25 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: faithfull: Right now he is just glad because the other woman does not demand anything from him -- she is sort of like a day at Disneyland. I would encourage you to give him a little bit of space while he is recovering.

6:18 MAS: Yoli: I’m sorry you had such a hard day.

6:18 Yoli: Jim: How are you? Well this Wednesday will be my 25th wedding anniversary and 3 1/2 years into the mlc.

6:19 Yoli: MAS: It was hard because of the contract testing. The people there were interesting.

6:19 Swanlake: MAS - to her right now she is feeling a need to protect and care for dad, and even though it is his own doing, you are a source of irritation for him because of the guilt contact with you creates, all she sees is how he reacts and it concerns her, so

6:19 MAS: Swan: Yes, and I could understand it if she were a bit younger, but she is a married adult.

6:20 Kathy215: Jim - My H says that he can forget our past and the mistakes we've made, but he can't forgive himself for not being a good step-father to my other children. He says that he can tell that I've changed. We've been separated a little over a year. What can I do to make him interested enough to come back and let him know that our relationship does have the strength.

6:30 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Kathy215: Remember that most guys are fairly shallow, they like to sit on the couch and have the remote and watch tv. They also like things to work easily and not have to talk about it. And remember that most men are very visual, so it's important to make sure that you keep looking cute and that you come across a little bit flirty.

6:21 Swanlake: MAS - continued - even though you are her mother and she loves you, she is behaving in a manner that is more of protector for dad. Daddy's little girls never grow up so much they don't need or take defensive action for daddy.

6:21 MAS: faithfull: Do you know why your son stopped talking to you? Are you on speaking terms now?

6:21 faithfull: MAS at 6:18 yes I can relate to it. It is so painful but you have to be careful not to let anger and bitterness to enter in. It can creep in before you know it.

6:21 Yoli: All: I think I have praise. Younger daughter finally got to play volleyball. There was write up on team and she was mentioned. I copied the link and sent it in email to h. Within minutes he responded with a thanks. He's never done that. The morsels

6:22 Yoli: All: Wow tonight is like a family reunion here. Good to see ya'll here

6:22 faithfull: MAS he lives with me know. I ask him and he says he just let the enemy put thoughts in his head. We have a good relationship now.

6:22 faithfull: It was almost a year we did not talk.

6:23 MAS: Jim: But all I wanted to do was find out why he was in the hospital and how he was feeling.

6:31 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: MAS: Try to find that info. out without talking to your husband or daughter. I know that it should be normal for a family to be able to talk to each other, but these are abnormal days for you guys.

6:23 Lia: Jim: What about a H that attacked everything for years, inc how well she did with her own interest, ie gardening, things with kids. Are you saying they don't want to come back because we weren't enough? My H had everything & the more he had, the worse he
got. There were even complaints about any facial expressions I had, not even pertaining to him, how I chewed, Nothing was off limits. My H hasn't had one legitimate complaint & is still angry. the nicer I am, the more he attacks even my faith, which I never about with him. My H still says Never. He is all about the convenience & ow is more than convenient, trouble is, so was I & I still was discarded. My H even treats friendships & coworkers as disposable is my H different,
a plus I think, my H continues to buy lots new stuff & make "new" life just like it was. He did stop by Sun unexpectedly to get a gun for hunting season. Although, Unfortunately I looked like I just got out bed. He was pleasant though any thoughts?

6:36 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lia: From your description, I think your husband has felt inadequate and even competitive with you. As the years have gone along, I think he is becoming more bold in his attacks on you. The solution to this problem is to try to help his self image and to help him feel more competent in his leadership role in the marriage. Probably at the beginning of your marriage, he was glad for a strong woman -- but now he wants more of an equal and a companion, not a mother / teacher.

6:23 BlueSky: Jim, thanks for your answer. He is an engineer and stubborn. He hasn't really talked about anything to me. He is shut tight. Sure he blames me for stuff that is so minor. I just can't figure it out. I never nagged him, we have always been respectful of each other.

6:41 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: BlueSky: Does he see you as a stimulating and very attractive woman?

6:23 steadfast: Jim: I am separated 2 1/2 years. I have learned that there is a time limit and if I don't proceed with completion of division of assets , I could lose my financial protection as there are deadlines where I am from. I am not filing for divorce just completion of division of assets. Would you recommend that I go ahead with this division of assets under these circumstances?

6:43 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: steadfast: It is very difficult for me to answer legal questions, that's not my area of expertise. I would strongly urge you to get professional legal help in your area.

6:24 MAS: faithfull: I am so happy that things have worked out between you and your son. My D has been this way since my H and I separated. She didn't talk to me for a year, either.

6:24 sbky: Jim. I don’t know. I truly am doing these for me.. I am sure the working is something he sees as good. I was a part time worker. stay at home mom. till he left..

6:42 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: sbky: I’m glad for all the growth that you are doing, but remember that not all of your personal growth will be viewed as important for your husband. Try to identify the areas that he thinks are really important and work at changing these areas.

6:24 Plumcrazy: Jim-Things with my H have gotten better since the retreat. I invited him Monday to go to hear some jazz on Fri nite. Wed I got a note from him "Thanks for the invite and consideration, however, I cannot make it this Fri. .-"Thanks for your understanding I hope that you have fun if still going." Later that nite I asked why he couldn’t go. The online game. He said the truth was he doesn’t want to be in a small club with a lot of people,. I have noticed that he has had a problem even at D's graduation with that, and he never has before this

6:45 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Plumcrazy: When I was going through my midlife crisis I could not stand to be around people - even when we had guests over at our house, I would go hide in the bathroom for 5 or 10 minutes just to pull myself together. My guess is that he is struggling with some of the same inability to cope with people. Just let him have some space, he'll get over this.

6:25 Swanlake: MAS - what seems like a simple non-relational question to you, can feel like a lot more to him. MLC creates enough chaos in their lives, but to be ill can only increase the stress and they really just aren't emotionally capable at this time.

6:25 HoneyGurlTina: Jim, my H has never said anything to me about any changes I have made. However the last time he forgot to give our 11 yr old Daughter her seizure meds when she was at his place, I never said anything to him about it, however our 23 yr old daughter said something to him about it, and he told her, I am surprised that your Mom didn’t call and yell at me about it. Can they say things that way, or does he need to say it to m?

6:47 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: HoneyGurlTina: I think that that is a positive thing, but don't base your emotions on a small comment like that. It is crucial that you stay strongly connected to God so that you are not yo-yo'd up and down by your husband, and whatever emotion he is going through at the time.

6:25 MAS: Yoli: Yes, a lot of people are here tonight!

6:27 faithfull: Jim I have given him space and do not make contact. I do send him pictures of the kids on occasion but do not initiate contact. Today I had to due to the boys and I felt he did not want to talk. so I stop texting. h is so angry at me because of his financial problems. He says he has to work so much overtime to pay for child support and started lashing out on me. I could tell he was full of anger even thru the text. the next day I text because he was going to pick up the kids and ask why he was so angry. He said he was just tired. I left it at that.

6:49 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: faithfull: It's better to make fewer contacts so that some of this anger can be dissipated.

6:29 MAS: Swan: Thanks for that perspective. And I guess I do understand, somewhat. I know that my H hates to be sick because he always needs to be in control. But I don't comprehend being treated so callously simply because I am trying to find out if he is ok

6:30 sbky: well all it isn’t too late here but I am gonna shut down. pick out some clothes for tomorrow and see my kids for a few minutes with no tv or pc on. night all

6:30 Yoli: sbky: Good night.

6:30 Kathy215: sbky - good night

6:31 Plumcrazy: All — I feel good that H told me that instead of being nasty. I don’t think he told me the truth until I asked because he thought I would get mad. I told him I was just disappointed because I thought it was music he would enjoy

6:31 Lia: Jim from faithful @ 6:29 I wonder same thing. My H became very angry a few weeks ago when I asked him about how hunting season is going & that I planned on going the next am. He said we don't have that kind relationship to have small talk I stayed calm & kind asked if I had said something to upset him & he screamed about how he's getting raked over coals, we haven't started dividing either. I listened, then he said I hide behind religion, he's not coming home & yet he's suppose be so happy. So I’m reason he says he's broke, but He bought ow another car, new furniture, a new puppy & is looking for house Is this still anger & replay, do they ever come out of this stage?

6:51 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lia: Perhaps we need to chat a little bit by phone, because some of your question is rather complicated.

6:32 HoneyGurlTina: Goodnight sbky

6:32 Swanlake: MAS - because in his mind, it is just one more way you are trying to control him, to hold onto him, to refuse to let go and let him have his own life, etc. They don't think rationally and sadly they often make us the enemy in their minds, therefore, resent us asking even the simplest of questions. They see it as a means of manipulation, not concern.

6:33 steadfast: Jim: My lawyer is suggesting collaborative process (4 way meetings to settle our affairs). Lawyer thinks because 2.5 years has gone by that h and self should be able to discuss things well in these meetings. I am thinking she feels the emotional aspect has settled with it being this long. How do you feel about 4 way meetings with h and lawyers in MLC? Also, if use this lawyer in collaborative process and things don't go well--next step is court and can't take my lawyer to court with me (law) would need to get new lawyer then.

6:54 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: steadfast: Again, I find it difficult to answer legal questions, you might want to get a 2nd opinion from a different lawyer.

6:34 MAS: Jim/Swan: When I called the hospital and asked for patient information, they told me they had no record of anyone being there with that name! Nothing under patient discharges, either!

6:34 faithfull: MAS he must a do not publish so you will not be able to get any information.

6:35 MAS: Swan: But he has never been like that before. He had said he wanted to be "friends."

6:35 Yoli: Swanlake: Hi, how are you? Question. H is having his family, including girlfriend, and her parents to his place for Thanksgiving. Why? He is scared to come to older daughter's graduation party. Says it's not a good place for him to be. Why?

6:35 Swanlake: MAS - that is a little odd, they really aren't supposed to give information out over the phone, but rather than saying they have no record, they should have informed you of privacy act policy.

6:36 Kathy215: Jim: I have been doing things like calling my H and asking him how his day is going, or just calling him to say hi and being flirty with him. But then I don't want him to think I’m a bother either.

6:56 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Kathy215: I’m glad you're trying not to be a bother - look for normal opportunities to connect with him rather than calling him at work.

6:36 MAS: faithfull@6:34: That was my thought, exactly! Can you imagine going to all that trouble??

To all: This is Lisa the Office Manager. I just want to remind you that if you have a private question you don’t wish to discuss here, please consider scheduling a 1-on-1 phone counseling session with Jim. Contact us at 714-768-1777 or This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. to set up a session. You can find information on phone counseling on our website: www.midlife.com. Remember, Jim always offers his live counseling in the chat room without cost. If you wish to donate to our ministry to support the Website/Chat Room upkeep, please do so at www.Midlife.com. Thank you.

6:36 Lia: Anyone 6:30 Anyone have any advice on that flirty thing, my H barely speaks to me because he thinks I’m taking everything even though I want no part of this legal stuff. I’m usually please when he's civil. Flirting would be a miracle right now!

6:37 Swanlake: MAS - during MLC they are not who they were before and so many things that anyone would never have imagined them doing. Yeah, they often say they want to be friends and I believe they mean it when they say it, but they soon realize we have a

6:37 MAS: Swan: The thing is, they had given me his room number when I initially called on Friday.

6:38 Swanlake: MAS - continued - different definition of friends that they do. To most MLCer's being friends means saying hello to each other if you happen to run into each other out in public and that as their friend, you agree to whatever they want.

6:38 Lia: Swan 6:33 to Mas I see that with my H too. Anything I say, do, or even don't say or do is suspect. Is that where things are sooo severe we have no choice but to detach?

6:40 Swanlake: Yoli - because most likely the girlfriend wants to have their "first" Thanksgiving together with all their family around them, so he is giving into her pressure. To be honest during MLC, things like holidays have little to no meaning to them, it is

6:40 HoneyGurlTina: Jim @ 6:39 oops sorry for me being impatient.

6:40 faithfull: swanlake I wonder if h are just as hateful to ow as they are with us.

6:40 Plumcrazy: Jim, Sorry I haven’t talked to you in a while so I got carried away.

6:41 Swanlake: Yoli - continued - more of a hassle to them than anything and they will take the road of least resistance just to have some thread of peace.

6:41 Yoli: Jim: I know I've asked this before but do our h remember anniversaries and us? My 25th anniversary is this Wednesday.

6:57 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Yoli: Anniversaries remind guys of their failures, so they will tend to avoid them all together.

6:41 Lia: Jim 6:36 That makes some sense to me, I think he wanted a competent woman who would take care of everything. He always expected that of me, yet I Never mothered him he always had very independent life too & he's very good @ all he does Are you saying he needs feel more needed. I have a very tender heart & prob is my H may never have seen it because he never allowed me to need him. How do I do this? Even when I did or do ask for his help the answer was/is no. I wasn't really included in his fun life in later years. I once said you forgot I was a woman, he asked what the Hxxx did that mean, I said I didn't want be mom & wife forever, but wanted be the friend & pal. Once I said I wonder if you ever saw my heart, he said he only saw blackness, but that was last year. Now he just thinks I’m destroying him financially & otherwise.

6:59 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lia: I think that his anger is too intense for you to learn much about what is going on inside of him. keep focusing on things that will help even though he doesn't recognize them at this time.

6:41 Kathy215: Swanlake: why do so many things, like holidays have no meaning to them? It's like my H could sit down and look at an entire photo album of our lives together and feel nothing?!

6:41 BlueSky: Jim, maybe not.

6:42 MAS: Swan: Well, in my H's case, he had described 3-4 different levels of "friends." We had about an hour's discussion about it once when he first left. We are barely at the first level according to him.

6:42 Yoli: Swan: Makes sense. However, he's insisting that both daughters go as well. I don't think this is going to result in peace He's not even social. It's just so bizarre.

6:42 Plumcrazy: Yoli-Our 21st Anniv. Was the Sunday I was at retreat. H didn’t acknowledge the 20th or this one. Also when I had D give him the card while I was gone he didn’t open it

6:42 Swanlake: MAS - room numbers they can give, they can also usually transfer your call to the room, however, they don't give out information about the patient. Since you called, he may have instructed the hospital to not give any information, not even that he

6:42 BlueSky: Jim, that sounds very discouraging

7:01 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: BlueSky: Remember that your stability musts come from your relationship with God, not from what your husband does, or does not do. It is not a hopeless situation, but focus all of your energies on growth and change right now.

6:42 Swanlake: MAS - continued - is there.

6:43 MAS: Lia:@6:38 I think that is there primary goal: they desperately want us to detach.

6:43 Yoli: Plumcrazy: I'm so sorry. They turn into such jerks. I can't believe that anyone wants to be with them during this time.

6:44 Plumcrazy: Yoli, _So I gave it to him the next day and he read the front that said ON OUR Anniv. and dint read the inside. Late I ask and he said he didn’t. I said "All that it said is I LOVE YOU, I know I haven’t told you that in awhile" H said "OK"

6:44 MAS: Swan: That's what I think, too.

6:44 Swanlake: faithfull - after a time, yes they become just as hateful to the other persons, once the high of the romance stage of a brand new relationship wears off, which is 6 months to a year. The bottom line, they are angry at the world and eventually the

6:45 Swanlake: faithful - continued - other person becomes apart of the world they are angry at and trying to escape from.

6:45 Yoli: Plumcrazy: Did he remember them before this journey? I admire you for being able to tell him that you love him despite what's going on.

6:46 Plumcrazy: Yoli-Yes he did! Usually got card and flowers. Or at least a card

6:46 Lia: Yoli 6:41 Happy anniversary. I'll pray for you & hope you will celebrate for you!

6:46 Swanlake: Kathy215 - guilt is a big factor, but mostly because they simply cannot handle the stress that comes along with things like holidays, reminiscing about the past with photos, etc. One man who has gone through MLC, described it as feeling as if he was

6:47 Yoli: Plumcrazy: I never really got anything. We would sometimes go out to eat. The last few years were strange.

6:47 Swanlake: Kathy215 - continued - dying inside and didn't know how to make the pain stop, he began running and never seemed to be able to run far or fast enough.

6:47 MAS: Swan: You are right about H's in MLC and holidays. They don't seem to care about them at all, anymore. It's just another day. My H would prefer to go off somewhere to the mountains.

6:47 Plumcrazy: Yoli_Going to the retreat was my ANNIV. present to myself. Do something for yourself that you enjoy! SPOIL YOURSELF!

6:48 Yoli: Lia: Thank you. Today I’m doing okay with it but who knows how I'll be on Wednesday. I’m sure he will remember because his sister's birthday was yesterday, his dad's in tomorrow and then our anniversary.

6:48 Lia: Jim 6:42 How can we figure out the truth about what they really need or see as growth. Mine seems angry I started hunting again. The only thing he may be impressed with @ all is if I made lots money even if we didn't need it

7:03 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lia: Usually husbands will not tell their wives what their needs are. You have to learn that from outside sources. You might consider reading "Men are Waffles, Women are like Spaghetti" by the Farrels, and "His Needs, Her Needs" by Hartley.

6:49 MAS: Plumcrazy: We're all glad you made it to the retreat.

6:49 Yoli: Plumcrazy: I would like to go to Chicago to see younger daughter play since she's finally getting to play. It is going to be their last tournament. of this season. I really have to think about what I would want to do.

6:49 steadfast: Swan: this is what my h said toward the end before he left--"he felt dead inside and he felt like the wind was out of his sails" A counselor told me that definitely sounds like depression.

6:49 faithfull: Yoli I ask my h if he remember our anniversary was on a certain day he just ignore the question. I sent him a care but he never acknowledge he got it. I never asked. I just left it alone.

6:50 Swanlake: MAS - the holidays are a major fight topic with my husband and the other woman, she knows we always went all out for Christmas and now my husband doesn't even want to celebrate it, no tree, no gifts, nothing and she often throws up in his face that

6:50 HoneyGurlTina: Jim @ 6:47 do you think he will ever tell me that he notices my changes?

7:05 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: HoneyGurlTina: Yes, if those changes are significant to him.

6:50 Lia: Plum 6:42 sorry dear, that hurt. He remembers though, he's hurting like they all are & he doesn't know how to get to where he needs to be yet. Keep praying for H & all marriages. We love our H's they really are great men, just lost !

6:50 Kathy215: Swanlake: My H says he feels as if he's on a downward spiral. It's like he knows it, but can't stop it. Is that how they all are? He was having an affair with his boss, but it has ended.

6:50 Yoli: faithful: Yeah, I can't send a card or anything else or that matter I don't know how he would take a card. It's just hard to know what to d if anything at all.

6:51 Plumcrazy: ALL-Last nite I told H "You did a great job taking care of S yesterday when he was so sick. You had a nice bedside manner. That stupid Dr on call was rude!" Then I hugged H in bed and he pulled away.

6:51 Swanlake: MAS - continued - he should provide better holidays for them because they are true soul mates, it turns into a fight and he ends up staying at our sons house for a few days during the holidays to get away from her.

6:51 MAS: Swan: In your opinion, how do you think my H would react to a humorous get well card?

6:52 Lia: Kathy 6:50 PTL the affair ended. Fewer distractions & more room for God to work!

6:52 faithfull: Yoli sometimes is better not to do anything and just be led by the spirit. At times it does not matter what we do. We are wrong anyway. I just keep trying to show him unconditional love. It is so hard.

6:52 MAS: Swan: The holidays sound like a crazy time for your H!

6:52 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: We still have about 8 minutes left, and Before anyone logs out, I want to thank you all for coming. I will continue to answer everything that comes in before 7:00 pm PST. Thanks again for your patience with us tonight. Please come again and invite your friends! Remember; the Sun./Wed./Fri. sessions are open to share and encourage each other, with the assistance of our trained facilitators.. The Mon. session is primarily a Q and A time with me in the room. Chat room hours are: Sunday, Wednesday and Friday: 6-7 pm Pacific Time. Monday (live chat with me): 6-7 pm Pacific Time. And don’t forget Saturdays at 1:00 pm PST.

6:53 Kathy215: Lia: I sure hope so! And you're right I thank God that the affair ended.

6:53 Yoli: Swan: At 6:51, what's up with that - true soul mates. The things the do.

6:53 Plumcrazy: ALL_Continued-Later I told H "I love you. I thought he was asleep he rolled over and pulled me close

6:53 MAS: Yoli: When is your D playing? I know you told me, but I forgot.

6:53 Swanlake: Kathy215 - pretty much, some say it is like they are drowning, buried alive, etc. but the bottom-line to it all is they feel lost, in the dark, unable to stop it and completely hopeless. Many also often talk about ending it because they cannot see

6:53 MAS: Plum: PTL That's wonderful!

6:54 Lia: Jim 6:51 sounds good that would be great. It seems if I am around my family or even some very anxious friends, I can remain quite calm & positive. My friends like coming here, because they stop worrying. Will my H ever see that?

6:54 Swanlake: Kathy215 - continued - other way out, luckily they rarely actually do.

6:54 Yoli: MAS: The tournament is Friday and Saturday. First game is at noon on Friday. Oh, MAS, she was so excited when she called me this morning. She's still so naive and innocent.

6:54 faithfull: Jim thanks for your advice and encouragement. I am trying and giving h more time and do not bother him. I also tell him I am not his enemy and I am trying to be understanding. I keep telling him I am not mad at him. Is this ok.

7:06 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: faithfull: Try focusing more on giving him affirmation on the quality of manhood that he is.

6:54 Lia: Plum 6:53 PTL, PTL, PTL! That's amazing darling.

6:55 MAS: Yoli: You should try and go if you can. It would be good for both of you.

6:55 Yoli: Plum: I second Lia's comment. that’s wonderful.

6:55 HoneyGurlTina: Yoli @ 6:47 Happy Anniversary Roomie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

6:55 Kathy215: Good night everyone. It's 10 PM here on the East coast and with the time change it's bedtime for me!!

6:55 Yoli: MAS: Airfare is so expensive. $400 roundtrip. Ouch.

6:55 Swanlake: MAS - mostly likely he would react and it would be negative since he got so upset when you called, it would also most likely get your daughter going. In his mind, you called, he has expressed himself and for you to do anything further would mean you

6:55 Kathy215: Jim: Thanks for your help.

6:56 Yoli: HGT: Hey, thank you. I appreciate it.

6:56 Swanlake: MAS - continued - are being disrespectful by not listening to what he wants.

6:56 Plumcrazy: All Thank you so much for your support I feel encouraged by this but hate to get my hope up. I have ALWAYS been an optimist tho!

6:56 MAS: Yoli: Yes, I know, and probably more expensive because it's a last minute flight.

6:56 Lia: Swan 6:51 I pray your H has the courage to leave & can accept the love & forgiveness God & you so want to give him. I pray he won't stay any longer in that place!

6:57 Yoli: Plum: Will pray for you.

6:57 faithfull: Mas I agree with Plum. When h tells me to leave him alone I back up and give him space.

6:57 Swanlake: MAS - from what I hear, everyday is a crazy time for my husband, which is one of the reasons I believe God has me where I am and him where he is.

6:58 Yoli: MAS: Yes that's what I think. I’m going to ask her what she thinks about this weekend. I don't want to just show up without her knowing. I think she would appreciate it.

6:58 Swanlake: Yoli - the term soul mates is something they seem to use to justify leaving us for another person, it says to them that it is ok because they weren't supposed to be with us in the first place. More of satan’s lies.

6:58 steadfast: Jim: Lisa and all ; Thank you and God bless. Praying that you have a good week.

6:58 Yoli: Jim: Okay, I guess I knew that. I’m praying that God moves him to reach out. Thanks.

6:58 MAS: Swan/faithfull: You mean even a card would have a negative effect? We still exchange birthday and Christmas cards.

6:59 MAS: Yoli: That's a great idea. Let me know what happens.

6:59 Yoli: Swanlake: Oh, yeah I knew about that. I was referring to him staying at son's house to be away from her.

6:59 Yoli: MAS: Okay, I will. Thanks again.

6:59 Plumcrazy: All -I almost forgot. D has been very rude yelling at me when I try to help her with Algebra (my worst subject) She has also been yelling at other family members including her Dad. I told her it isn’t acceptable when others are talking to her

6:59 Lia: Jim 6:56 I wonder if it's ok to call my H @ work on rare occasion as he is certainly more irritated when OW is around. I feel she encourages his bad behavior. He seems a bit more able talk @ work & sometimes @ kids' events. Also H handing me support in person @ our house instead of sending in mail, is that good, or a sympathy /power play in front kids. I usually just say thank you, ok?

7:08 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Lia: Coming to the house is a good sign. He will be more defensive when the other woman is around, because she is trying to get him to be exclusively for herself.

7:00 Swanlake: Lia - thank you for your prayers

7:00 Yoli: All: Thank you. I appreciate every one of you.

7:00 Plumcrazy: All_She was yelling at me last nite and H said "That's enough little girl" Shocked me and our D PTL

7:02 Swanlake: MAS - To be honest, he may accept it fine, but there is a chance he won't since he didn't react well to your calling to check up on him. Birthdays and Christmas are usually different, they can justify it in their minds as being completely

7:02 MAS: Swan@6:58: I almost have to laugh about how they tell us that they weren't supposed to be with us in the first place and getting married was just a mistake that they made.

7:03 Lia: Jim 6:59 thank you. I think because all things in H's past that he never dealt with has made him become a very angry person. It's hard to deal with, because he's always expected so much of me & his anger is very hurtful I bruise easily!

7:03 Swanlake: MAS - continued - non-relational. If you feel strong that you should send him a funny get well, you should, however, also prepare yourself for the change he might snap back about it.

7:03 MAS: Swan: Boy...how they strange they've become!

7:04 Lia: Plum 6:59 check out that got an angry kid book by Andrew Gibson & how to talk so kids will listen.....

7:04 Swanlake: Yoli - I stopped trying to figure out what is going on with him, they sleep in separate bedrooms and have every since a couple months after they got married, don't have a clue what is going through his mind.

7:04 Lia: Swan 7:00 you are most welcome. I am glad you H sounds protective of you & your family with ow

7:05 MAS: Yoli: Are you going to be okay on Wednesday?

7:05 BlueSky: Jim, thank you.

7:06 Swanlake: Lia - he has become very protective every since she yelled at our 5 year old grandson for answering a question my husband asked him, grandson mentioned my name and she started screaming at him about her rule, that was the straw! But he still stays

7:07 Lia: Jim 7:03 read the second one partially. according to that & love languages my H seems need acts service which he had a lot of, second quality time which is my second yet he pushed me away for long time He also seems need recreational companion

7:07 faithfull: Thanks Jim @ 7:06 I will, I was doing it before and I have stop.

7:07 Swanlake: Lia - continued - with her for whatever reason, so I don't even allow myself to get hopeful over things dealing with him and her. It is all in God's hands and when it is His time, I will know, until then, I draw close to Him and let all else go.

7:07 faithfull: Well all have to go. Good night.

7:08 faithfull: PTL swanlake at 7:07

7:08 Lia: Jim cont: I will read the waffle one. How can I even try to be his companion? before he left I was trying to ask him teach me to snowboard & if we could snowshoe & such, but he insisted the more I try reach out the more I had go home & do other thing

7:09 HoneyGurlTina: Nite nite Faithful

7:09 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Ok everyone. So sorry to have to take off on you, but I’m just wiped out with jet lag and still on Easter Time. I hope you can come to our regular chat rooms to visit and talk to our awesome facilitators. I'll be back next Monday. See you then. Also, please know that Jan and I will be praying for you this week. God Bless.

7:09 Plumcrazy: Faithfull Jim is right about the affirmation. My H feels so bad about himself that he needs it. We both got nasty with each other earlier in this MLC mess and said mean things to each other because we were hurting

7:09 Lia: Swan 7:06 how long ago was that? My kids notice the manipulation of ow I keep praying God keep their eyes & ears open too & He does

7:10 HoneyGurlTina: Nite nite Jim, and Hello Lisa

7:10 Lia: Jim 7:08 that's good. He had no real reason to come by Sun. I thought that was good too!

7:11 Plumcrazy: Lisa-Hello How are you? You did a great job getting chat back up! WE APPRECIATE YOU SO MUCH!!! ((((((((LISA)))))))))

7:11 LisaK [Administrator]: Ok ALL: I'll be closing the room in 1 minute. Please say your goodbyes, and know that you can meet together next on Wednesday at 6:00 pm PST.

7:11 Lia: Jim take care & feel better thanks!

7:11 Swanlake: Lia - a little over 2 1/2 years ago. Now she is not permitted to have any contact with our children, grandson, DIL. He goes to visit them alone or sends her away to her sons if he wants them to come up to his house.

7:11 Swanlake: Night all

7:11 Lia: Hey all, God's greatest blessings to you all & yours Goodnight!

7:12 Plumcrazy: Well Everyone take care and hope to talk to you WED

7:12 HoneyGurlTina: Plumcrazy @ 7:11 I totally agree

7:12 Jo2: Good night, blessings to all.

7:12 Lia: Swan I'll just pray God lifts his guilt & depression & empowers H with HS

7:13 HoneyGurlTina: Nite nite everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

7:13 MAS: Goodnight everyone.

7:14 LisaK [Administrator]: Thank you Lord, for making sure this Chat Room can be up and running for Jim tonight, and I ask that you continue to keep it running smooth so that people can continue to meet and encourage one another in Your ways Lord. In Jesus' Name. Amen.

7:14 LisaK [Administrator]: OK, good night Plumcrazy dear. Keep up the good work.

6:18 faithfull: Jim He does not want any confrontation, he wants to be lifted and made to feel good. He does not want to face reality. The other woman makes him feel good. I do not know how to meet his needs due to he does not want to talk to me or be around me.

6:25 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: faithfull: Right now he is just glad because the other woman does not demand anything from him -- she is sort of like a day at Disneyland. I would encourage you to give him a little bit of space while he is recovering.

6:20 Kathy215: Jim - My H says that he can forget our past and the mistakes we've made, but he can't forgive himself for not being a good step-father to my other children. He says that he can tell that I've changed. We've been separated a little over a year. What can I do to make him interested enough to come back and let him know that our relationship does have the strength.

6:30 Dr. Jim Conway [Administrator]: Kathy215: Remember that most guys are fairly shallow, they like to sit on the couch and have the remote and watch tv. They also like things to work easily and not have to talk about it. And remember that most men are very visual, so it's important to make sure that you keep looking cute and that you come across a little bit flirty.


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