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December 27, 2017 / Wednesday Chat with Bill

Dogwood: Bill, The biggest challenge for me is to be by myself, knowing that my H has left me. I can be alone and doing very well when I know that I have him in our marriage. I know that is my weakest point, I feel very ashamed if my marriage fails. I like to have a loving relationship with my H. I need to be able to experience the love of God is sufficient for me.

Bill: Dogwood: Your description is spot on. "Jesus, please give Dogwood the grace to trust you for her marriage, her well-being and for strength beyond her own. Please track down her H and move his heart toward you first and toward her second. While she waits, give her peace that is beyond our understanding and resolve that is beyond our ability."

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December 27, 2017 / Wednesday Chat with Bill

Swan: Hello everyone, welcome to Wednesday evening chat

Swan: Hi Little Magpie - How are you tonight?

Little Magpie: Hello Swan. It looked like there were four here when I was signing in

Little Magpie: Swan, I am okay, how are you?

Swan: KmKrn - has been stuck in the log for a few weeks now. Dogwood wasn't there before, so she might be in tonight.

Little Magpie: Swan - It was Bill and KmKrn

Swan: Little Magpie - I am doing well. Did you have a nice Christmas? My daughter and son in law came up Christmas Eve that is when we do the Santa celebration. Then they stayed and visited with us Christmas Day, it was a fun family day for us.

Little Magpie: Hello Dogwood

Dogwood: Hi Swan and Little Magpie: How are you tonight? Is Bill here in the Room?

Swan: I didn't see Bill, so he may be here after all, good he usually lets me know when he will be late or not able, so he is most likely trying to get in the room, and it seems to be having some issues tonight, kind of slow

Dogwood: Swan that was what I experienced before getting in the Room. I always forgot how to launch the Chat Box

Swan: Dogwood - I don't see him in the room yet, but Little Magpie says his name is listed on the log, so he might be having some difficulty. He did not let me know he wouldn't be here and typically he gives me advance notice if he can't be in.

Little Magpie: Swan- Your Christmas sounds Fantastic!!! Our plans changed as we had a lot of snow and ice conditions. Family had a lot of ice at the bottom of their hill and had accidents so we were told to stay home and we will try again this next weekend.

Swan: Little Magpie - Yeah the weather is pretty bad this year, there are places having record snow and zero temps.

Little Magpie: Swan - I just heard on the news that Sioux Falls SD is -14

Dogwood: Swan, I began to pull out Jim and Sally's books on Midlife. It is amazing to realize how much I have forgotten; and how much is being repeated over and over again. I still got very shocked, experiencing all the emotions which I thought that I have got over with. Unfortunately, they keep on coming back with each new episode.

Swan: Little Magpie - I cannot remember where it is, but last night the news was showing someplace in the Midwest that had 30 feet of snow and it was still snowing, cars were buried to the point that you couldn't see them, couldn't even tell there were cars under the snow. They had been snowed in 4 days and the plow trucks were just starting to be able to get on the roads, but it was going to day a long time to get everyone able to be mobile.

Little Magpie: Dogwood - I came across one book I have of Jim Conway's today when I was straightening some things up. How are you doing?

Little Magpie: Swan - I heard about that the radio this morning. I don't remember where it was either. But we can pray for those who are experiencing rain, snow, fire and other natural disasters.

Little Magpie: Bill - Good evening

Dogwood: Hi Little Magpie-- This year is the first time for many years that I did not travel to be with my son and his family. I am staying here at home for these two weeks. I would need a lot of courage to face H going out to his group watching ball games, and leaving me home by myself. That is one thing I am afraid to be left home alone on holidays, knowing that H chooses to go to OW's house watching ball games with his group of friends. He did stay home on Christmas Eve and Christmas day; we went to late Christmas service together-- that is such a praise. But he takes off to his routine outing every evening after the Holidays. It is hard for me to know how to react and how not to react.

Bill: Hi Folks. Sorry I am late. I wish I had a really good story to tell you of why but the reality is Christmas week has me out of sync. I thought it was about 4:30 - TURNS OUT IT IS 5:30! So, Hi

Dogwood: Hi Bill. Good evening, good to see you here. Glad that you can spare some time here.

Swan: Dogwood - sometimes I think even when we have dealt with issues, they can come back up and bring all of the emotions with them. For myself, my step father was a very abusive man, I haven't had anything to do with him for years, in fact he passed away five years back, so there isn't really anything left to be a reminder, but there will be times when something might trigger it and I will have odd feelings that remind me of those days. It doesn't last long and I have gotten really good at recognizing it now, so I get past the emotions quicker.

Little Magpie: Hello Bluesky

Bluesky: Hi all, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

Dogwood: Swan: Thanks for sharing. I was flipping through Sally's book, "moving on after he moved out" She clearly spelled out the issue of "abandonment" which is huge with women...

Little Magpie: Dogwood - glad your H was home on Christmas Eve and Christmas. Sorry that he went back to his pattern afterward.

Dogwood: Bluesky, Hi good evening

Bluesky: Bill, I just woke up from a nap (been sick) I thought it was 5 and it was 6. Oops. Guess I needed it.

Little Magpie: Bluesky - I hope you are well soon. Sorry you are under the weather.

Bill: Hi Dogwood. Thanks for the warm greeting. It is always good to hang out with people who are determined to be better in the future then they are today. I was struck by your comment "my step father was a very abusive man," because it reminded me we are all on a journey. By nature, I like quick and decisive solutions. Human nature, however, does not seem to be friendly to that approach. Change takes a lot longer than I thought it would when I began this journey with Jesus. I had to conclude in my own family that the change I was hoping for was going to change 3 or 4 generations to complete. I was hoping my parents would have a miraculous encounter with Jesus, commit to their own personal growth, undo the unhealthy habits in their lives and we would all walk in victory. That is not exactly how it has turned out. Instead, my parents have kind of stayed the same while Pam and I learned to set boundaries, become intentional about our growth and parenting and focused on overcoming the impact of our family trends. My sons have taken it even further and are having a much easier time living healthy than we had. Their instincts are much better than mine and they can arrive at productive living with much less effort than Pam and me. Hopefully, it will be second nature for our grandkids. Much longer process than expected.

Bluesky: Swan, I jumped on here just not because I just got off the phone with my Aunt (it's her bday) my son took his grandma (aunt’s good friend) over to see her yesterday. But my aunt also told me my h and his person went too. Isn't that strange? My h wouldn't even go with me the last Christmas we were together.

Bluesky: Little Magpie, Thanks, it’s just a common cold but a whopper.

Bill: Dogwood: As I think about the struggles you have had with your H, it occurs to me they are not good but they are a step better than your step father. Not what we have all prayed for but some inkling of progress.

Bill: Bluesky: Welcome to "out of sync with time" club!

Dogwood: Bill H and I had some serious talk late on Christmas Day, He says that he will take time to deal with his issues and baggage which he created in the past (with OW); He cannot do a drastic cut off the friendships and stop going over right away, but he said he needs time to handle the situations in his way. I believe that he should cut off the ties right away before he can begin reconciliation with me. He and I talk about giving a few months if that is not acceptable to me, and then we may split up...

Bill: Bluesky: Pam has had that same cold that just lingers and lingers and lingers.

Bluesky: Bill, sorry to hear. I hope you don't catch it.

Swan: Bluesky - your husband and the other person, showed up at YOUR aunts? Wow, that is strange. Often they shy away from family when they are heading into the MLC tunnel; maybe he is starting to realize the benefit of family and is peaking out. The other person being with him, is nothing, they don't really think about the affects of dragging someone else with them and typically the other person puts pressure on them to be included, mostly out of fear that they might be reminded of the life and people they walked away from.

Bill: Bluesky: thanks but I think I had it in November (too much fun with my 2 year-old granddaughter!)

Bluesky: Swan, yep, strange. Weil, I hope you are correct. My aunt said she brought me up a while talking with my son, you know, how much he looks like me etc... So they both had to hear that.

Bill: Dogwood: I am glad to hear your H is at least talking with you about doing something. In theory, I agree that it would be best for him to cut off the friendship. I also know that this ML journey is the most ridiculous, non-scripted, and hard to figure out process of life. People have experienced success in normal and bizarre ways. People have also had remarkable wake up moments after suggesting ridiculous solutions. To be honest, people have also consistently sabotaged their own success with plans that can never work. My best advice is to take things a step at a time, focus more on who you want to be than who you want H to be and ask God to give you wisdom on a daily basis.

Dogwood: Bill, The step father story is Swan's and not mine. I had a loving father whom my mother divorced when I was about 12. Neither of them re-married. My father and I had very good relationships

Bluesky: Bill, oh dear. Yes, that happens around sweet little ones.

Bill: Dogwood: Ooops. Well, then Swan's story got me thinking rather than yours. Your story is different since your father was such a good relationship in your life. Your story is actually harder to figure out since statistics were in your favor even though the human heart can sting any of us.

Bill: Dogwood: So, I am curious now. Did your mom ever tell you why she divorced your dad?

Dogwood: Bill, It seems that I cannot accept the fact that H believes that he is making progress toward coming home; he just cannot immediately cut off the ties with OW. I believe that he cannot have both the marriage and a OW... He wants me to be patient letting him handle it.

Swan: Bluesky - my husband decided to come visit my son in October 2016, just showed up. The other woman called while he was here visiting and my son heard her say that he was in trouble because he didn't tell her where he was going or take her with him. My husband told her, he was visiting his son and grandson and she isn't invited for those visits. She apparently told him that he was to leave immediately and head back home. He didn't and she called 14 more times during the visit. Here is the thing, my husband lives several hours away and just got in his truck and drove down here, didn't tell her where he was going and wasn't happy when she kept calling him. My son says he only answered a couple times, then turned his ringer to silent, but when he looked at it before leaving, he commented on how many times she was calling. As far as I know she isn't aware that I live here and I don't think anyone has told her, if she knew that oh my gosh she would have had a blazing fit.

Bill: Dogwood: I am certainly not endorsing his approach. I am simply saying that MLCers often defy logic. At some point, he is going to have to remove her from his life if he wants to be right with you. Predicting if, how and when that will happen (and how long you should wait to see) is the hardest part of this journey.

Dogwood: Bill, yes, she just says conflict of their personalities. They are very different. My dad is quiet and slow paced, and my mom is kind of "hot tempered" and fast paces. They are 8 years apart. I have always liked my dad better.

Bill: Dogwood: Thanks for sharing that. Did she not know this about your dad when they married?

Little Magpie: Dogwood - It isn't logical but it is difficult to break those ties even when you know they aren't healthy. The person has memories tied to the other person that make it hard to let go. It is easier said and logically said than actually happening.

Bluesky: Swan, oh my, oh my. I am assuming you weren't home at the time?

Bill: Dogwood: I am also curious if your H would define you with either of those definitions, "quiet and slow paced" or "hot tempered and fast paced"?

Dogwood: Bill, yes, that is my problem, whether I can live alone if I ask him to leave.


Bluesky - I was at work when he arrived, but when I got home, he saw me since I had to walk past him. I just went to my bedroom and did whatever I was going to do; he stayed almost three more hours after I got home? No, he didn't speak to me and I didn't want to cause anything, so I just walked past him, smiled and made myself scarce.

Bill: Dogwood: Your comment is interesting about whether you think you could live alone. You seem to be a strong person who makes good decisions so it surprises me a little. Do you mind sharing a little more detail?

Bluesky: Swan, oh really? You don't think it was a great opportunity for you to visit with him?

Bluesky: Swan, how did he look at the time or were you stunned he was there?

Dogwood: Bill He knows that I am not "hot tempered" at all. He disliked my mom because of her tempers. They did not get along at all. At the beginning of his MLC, he kept saying that I reminded him of all the unpleasant memory of my mother, even though he knows that my personality is like my dad; he likes my dad

Bill: Little Magpie: I appreciate your comments about ties that get set up. What makes all this more difficult than it ought to be is the movement of our hearts. Our hearts long to be connected and we will choose unhealthy connections over healthy aloneness most of the time.

Dogwood: Bill, I like your statement of "unhealthy connections" over healthy aloneness" that is so very true.

Swan: Bluesky - No, I know my husband and just letting it go was the best thing, if he wanted to visit with me he would have created that situation. I did ask my son, if his dad said anything about my being there and he said that he didn't seem to be bothered by it, but also didn't seem interested. When my husband feels he is not in control he gets very out of control and acts irrational, so like I said, better to just let it be.

Bill: Dogwood: Your H's "logic" is very interesting. "You are like your dad and I like your dad so you remind me of your mom."

Bill: Swan: Way to go managing the situation with your H. I am sorry you have to manage the situation but I admire your skill at the same time.

Dogwood: Bill H said that he may be willing to talk with a counselor? Have any suggestion of a good one who knows how to counsel older man?

Bluesky: Swan, that is very weird. That must have been so hard, I am sorry.

Bill: Dogwood: I believe this one of the primary driving forces in relationships. God said it wasn't good for man to be alone so He created Eve. When Eve ate from the fruit, Adam chose to engage with her rather than ask God what he should do. It is easy to make a case that it would have been better for both of them to approach God and seek His advice but that is not what people tend to do when they are faced with the fear of being alone.

Swan: Bluesky - I was shocked, there is nothing like walking in the house and hearing his voice (I didn't recognize the truck, it isn't the one he had last time I saw him) and turning the corner and there he was. I had to walk between him and son; I just put on a smile, looked at him and kept going. I had told him years back that he is always welcome in my life and he knows I mean it. That day, in my opinion his visiting with our son seemed to be his focus and to me that is an important relationship for him to try to reconcile. Sadly, he is still working on that, but one day!

Bluesky: Swan, wow, I would have thought he would get up and leave and not be able to focus on your son. But, things are weird with this MLC.

Dogwood: Bill, I look like my mom, so, when he sees me, that reminds him of her and his poor relationship with mother-in-law who has passed away 10 years ago. However, I must say that in recent five years, he stopped making that statement or justification of why his love for me has lost.

Bill: Dogwood: Fascinating. I am glad to hear he has changed his perspective (at least a little).

Bluesky: Dogwood, that's great he doesn't bring that up anymore.

Swan: Bill - For years I facilitated the Covey training for the Marine Corps civilian employees at Miramar, that plus all the reading and studying I have done since MLC hit my world, I have learned how to let go of what I need to and hold on tight to what requires that. I am a person most comfortable in control of my situations and had to learn with many skinned knees how to let go of the control.

Bluesky: All, well, it's after the hour so I am heading out. Nice to see you all.

Swan: Bluesky - oddly I was in such a happy state from just getting to hear his voice that I didn't notice the hard part until later.

Bill: Swan: It sounds so easy when you describe but we all recognize the battle this creates. It is no small thing that you were able to let H and S spend time together without incident. It would have been so easy to react or divert attention to your relationship with H. Accepting situations we can neither change nor endorse takes a lot of grace!

Little Magpie: All - I need to head out too. We had our puppy spayed yesterday and she wants attention as she was left at the vet yesterday morning and just came home. It was nice seeing all of you. Blessings in the New Year

Bill: Little Magpie and Bluesky: Happy New Year. Blessings on you.

Swan: Bluesky - I was thinking the same, that he would leave once he knew I was home, but he didn't. In some way it was as if I didn't exist, but I do and he came face to face with me and didn't run, so maybe that was a positive. Don't really know, it isn't like we are talking now, there is still a no contact rule and he obeys it!

Little Magpie: Thank you Bill. Night

Swan: All it is the top of the hour please wrap up so Bill can spend time with his beautiful, but ill wife. Please join us again Saturday afternoon.

Dogwood: Bill, The biggest challenge for me is to be by myself, knowing that my H has left me. I can be alone and doing very well when I know that I have him in our marriage. I know that is my weakest point, I feel very ashamed if my marriage fails. I like to have a loving relationship with my H. I need to be able to experience the love of God is sufficient for me.

Bill: Dogwood: Your description is spot on. "Jesus, please give Dogwood the grace to trust you for her marriage, her well-being and for strength beyond her own. Please track down her H and move his heart toward you first and toward her second. While she waits, give her peace that is beyond our understanding and resolve that is beyond our ability."

Bill: All: Thanks again for your transparency and courage. God notices and will bring His best to your life is some way. See you next year!

Dogwood: Bill thanks. Do you do phone counseling? If H is willing?

Bill: Dogwood: Very little. My travel schedule is so sporadic that I have trouble being consistent. If H is interested, let's talk about who I know in your locality first. If he will only talk with me, I will certainly find a way to make it happen but believe it would better for him to have someone local.

Dogwood: Bill, Okay, I may try a local retired minister I know of first and go from there. Thanks, Happy New Year! I often do not know whether I should prepare myself for "touch love" or not. But it seems that H knows there is a time frame we agreed upon-- that is after we file the income tax next year.

Bill: Dogwood: I will be praying for God to make the path clear.

Bill: Good night all.

Dogwood: Bill, Yes, I certainly need to have a very clear direction from the Lord, my son is preparing place for me to move to be with them whenever I need to...

Dogwood: swan, Bill good night and thanks

Dogwood: Bill, The biggest challenge for me is to be by myself, knowing that my H has left me. I can be alone and doing very well when I know that I have him in our marriage. I know that is my weakest point, I feel very ashamed if my marriage fails. I like to have a loving relationship with my H. I need to be able to experience the love of God is sufficient for me.

Bill: Dogwood: Your description is spot on. "Jesus, please give Dogwood the grace to trust you for her marriage, her well-being and for strength beyond her own. Please track down her H and move his heart toward you first and toward her second. While she waits, give her peace that is beyond our understanding and resolve that is beyond our ability."

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