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October 04, 2017 / Wednesday Chat With Bill

Swan: Bill - The ironic thing is my home growing up was always total chaos, disorganized, messy actually, all except my bedroom and I would get angry if anyone went into my room and touched, moved anything. Having been in the Marine Corps and then married to a Marine for 28 years, that allowed me to have the everything in its place setting I was most comfortable in and my husband was also pretty much the same - UNTIL MLC hit, then he became so scattered, he couldn't seem to get his laundry in the basket, he had little piles of clothes all over our bedroom floor and it drove me crazy, but don't dare touch his stuff, if I even picked up a pile of clothes and put them in the washer, he would get angry and accuse me of snooping and spying on him. It wasn't until I found out about the first other woman that I started to understand why he had become so secretive even with things as simple as dirty clothes.

Bill: Swan: AS you shared, I was amazed once again at how "poorly" people hide their sins. You would think that your H would keep his routine, keep his habits and hide any signs that think that were drastically different. Instead, it is like people light off fireworks announcing the behaviors that will never be sustainable in the current situation. Fascinating!

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October 04, 2017 / Wednesday Chat With Bill

Little Magpie: Swan- Hello

Swan: Hello everyone, welcome to Wednesday evening chat

Little Magpie: bill- Hello

Little Magpie: All - I remained at work as I wasn't going to make it home on time and I needed secure internet

Bill: Good evening Swan and Little Magpie.

Swan: Bill - Hi, how are things going for you this week, getting a chance to slow down a little?

Bill: All: Pam and I are currently in Wisconsin. Just Between Us ministry (ministry to women who engage in women's ministry founded by Jill Briscoe) is having a conference which Pam is attending. I am here working as we head to Michigan to this weekend.

Bill: Swan: The beauty is I get to hunker down and get work done while Pam interacts with friends and colleagues

Little Magpie: Bill - It sounds like a good time. Greet the Laffoons this weekend.

Swan: Bill - That is what makes the two of you a great team.

Bill: Swan: I am not a big fan of slowing "slowing down" too much. By personality I run at a pretty fast pace and having grown up in a chaotic home, I find it easier to stay active with projects that challenge my mind and my body. I believe everyone has a pace they live at best and mine is pretty active.

Bill: Little Magpie: I will say hi to Jay and Laura for you.

Swan: Bill - I understand completely, I have always been a pretty much on the go person myself, it is actually where I find peace. I cannot do chaotic anymore and need to have organization in my life, at work, at home, even in rest.

Bill: Swan: Having said that, I am a big fan of planned relaxation and reflection. Since it is so easy to ignore growth issues in our lives by staying overly busy, I like to schedule in times when I rest, read and seek to recuperate from my productive life.

Bill: swan: Amen on the organization rather than chaos.

Little Magpie: All- I am going to head out and try to make it home for Pam's bible study.

Swan: Bill - The ironic thing is my home growing up was always total chaos, disorganized, messy actually, all except my bedroom and I would get angry if anyone went into my room and touched, moved anything. Having been in the Marine Corps and then married to a Marine for 28 years, that allowed me to have the everything in its place setting I was most comfortable in and my husband was also pretty much the same - UNTIL MLC hit, then he became so scattered, he couldn't seem to get his laundry in the basket, he had little piles of clothes all over our bedroom floor and it drove me crazy, but don't dare touch his stuff, if I even picked up a pile of clothes and put them in the washer, he would get angry and accuse me of snooping and spying on him. It wasn't until I found out about the first other woman that I started to understand why he had become so secretive even with things as simple as dirty clothes.

Little Magpie: i should have tried to make it home earlier even though I would have been late. My commute home is about an hour.

Bill: Little Magpie: Safe travels. I think being in Pam's bible study is a great idea. You have a little extra time because she is starting at 6:36 tonight because of the conference.

Little Magpie: thank you

Bill: Swan: AS you shared, I was amazed once again at how "poorly" people hide their sins. You would think that your H would keep his routine, keep his habits and hide any signs that think that were drastically different. Instead, it is like people light off fireworks announcing the behaviors that will never be sustainable in the current situation. Fascinating!

Little Magpie: All- Blessing tonight and the rest of the week. Please keep my YD in prayer she is going to a play by herself and going as a group is recommended.

Little Magpie: tomorrow night

Swan: Bill - Especially married to me, I was trained by the Marine Corps as an interrigator, my sense of investigation has always been high and he was well aware of that, it worked out pretty great with my kids, they didn't get by with too much. Much of his organizational change was due to the depression he was and/or is going through. At first I wrote it off to the stresses of going from being a big fish in the Marine Corps pond to being just another fish in the civilian corporate pond, but then he got so defensive, secretive and sloppy. Nothing like the man I had known for more than 32 years.

Bill: Swan: It is hard not to see the humor in trying to outwit an investigator!

Bill: Swan: I am equally amazed at how willing people are to fool themselves into thinking nothing is wrong or convincing themselves that things could never be good again. When the Bible describes the human heart as desperately wicked and deceptive, it is spot on.

Swan: Bill - He was an intelligence officer and even though I had been out of the Marine Corps for many years he was aware of my abilities, in fact he would often talk with me about Marine's in his unit to get my input on the what and why of them acting certain ways. I remember one night when I came home to a box on our door stoop from the first other woman and I asked him how if this was the same person he went to grade school that his mother often mentioned, rather than say a simple yes or no, he got angry, threw a fit, ripped up whatever was in the box and stormed off, got in his truck and was gone for almost three hours. Later he told me he was sorry, that he had told her to leave him alone, he didn't want anything to do with her, but she refused to listen. He told her to leave him alone, while he was planning a "business" trip to spend a week with her, so...

Swan: Bill - If you need to be someplace else I can cover the room, it will most likely be pretty quiet.

Swan: Bill - I know my husband has also told others that he truly didn't think I could catch on to his relationship with the first other woman.

Bill: Swan: This type of thing is so common with men in MLC. Since men, on average, are emotionally immature, their first response when they get emotional is to get angry. They may really be ashamed or feeling trapped by their choices or embarassed or but they express it in anger. We then think they have an anger problem and miss the whole point. Also, men tend to be proud and think they can get away with anything they want. They can "sincerely" tell you nothing is going on while they are planning the "something that is going on." Compartmentalizing at its worst!

Swan: Bill - In fact he told his best friend at the time that once I found out he had no other choice than to divorce me, if I hadn't found out things would have been different.

Bill: Swan: I will hang out for a few more minutes. thanks for offering to cover.

Bill: Swan: Again, it sounds ridiculous that he thought you (the investigator) would not catch on!

Bill: Swan: Thanks for sharing. The thought process of your H is fascinating and very instructive. I am working with a couple right now where the husband is totally amazed (and kind of confused) by his wife's willingness to stay with him. If she wanted, she has plenty of reasons to give up but God has put it on her heart to stick it out. He has recently softened but wants to project this same, "I have no other choice but divorce since I have been so bad and she knows" thinking on to her.

Swan: Bill - the sad thing is that my mother in law promoted this thinking in him as well. He was her favorite child and the older four kids talk about how he was allowed to do things they would have gotten beaten for. When we would visit she would tell stories of things he had done as a small child and talked almost as if she was proud of him for it, things that we didn't allow our two children to get away with. As a child he didn't have to be responsible and was not held accountable. In the Marine Corps, he was highly respected and as he got more rank he held a position that not many others held so he was given grace on some of his bad behaviors. I can look back and to be honest he wasn't really held accountable for much and I was part of that problem as well, I stepped in on a few occasions and took the heat or made things right that he had wronged because it was in the best interest of the family for him to not get in trouble.

Swan: Bill - One of the things my husband tells others is that there is no way I can ever forgive him, even when he is told by them that I already have, he just looks down, shakes his head and says he has done too much, caused too much pain.

Bill: Swan: Fascinating how childhood training can impact adult behavior so much. One of my favorite quotes is "Life is hard on those who are not hard on themselves." When we were raising our kids, we wanted to be appropriately hard on them so they developed the character that would enable them to live out their dreams later on. So many parents want to be easy on their kids rather than help them gain the strength for this world.

Bill: Swan: this is the other part of pride that drives me crazy. He is now the expert on you, your thoughts and your choices. He has trouble keeping his life together but he knows better than everyone (including you) how you are doing.

Swan: Bill - I have seen many of those kids, they are often disrespectful to others and either have no direction or cannot seem to focus, they bounce off the walls and create havoc in the family, school, work when they get older, etc. Kids need direction, they need rules and they need structure, it is finding that balance between too much and none that is often overlooked.

Bill: Swan: It is always good talking. I am going to sign off. I need to pick up Pam at the conference (we are at a conference apartment that is not within walking distance of the meeting room) so she can lead her online Bible Study. Blessings!

Swan: Bill - Have fun and I will see you next week.

Swan: Bill - The ironic thing is my home growing up was always total chaos, disorganized, messy actually, all except my bedroom and I would get angry if anyone went into my room and touched, moved anything. Having been in the Marine Corps and then married to a Marine for 28 years, that allowed me to have the everything in its place setting I was most comfortable in and my husband was also pretty much the same - UNTIL MLC hit, then he became so scattered, he couldn't seem to get his laundry in the basket, he had little piles of clothes all over our bedroom floor and it drove me crazy, but don't dare touch his stuff, if I even picked up a pile of clothes and put them in the washer, he would get angry and accuse me of snooping and spying on him. It wasn't until I found out about the first other woman that I started to understand why he had become so secretive even with things as simple as dirty clothes.

Bill: Swan: AS you shared, I was amazed once again at how "poorly" people hide their sins. You would think that your H would keep his routine, keep his habits and hide any signs that think that were drastically different. Instead, it is like people light off fireworks announcing the behaviors that will never be sustainable in the current situation. Fascinating!

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